Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[DarthEnderX]

To be fair, Ganondorf with a trident was a thing WAY before Hyrule Warriors..

Yeah, but that's the best version, therefore it should be the Smash version.

Give his old moveset to Black Shadow.

 

[Ben Holt]

Yeah, but that's the best version, therefore it should be the Smash version.

Give his old moveset to Black Shadow.

I had a rework for Ganondorf in another thread without ****ing over longtime fans that have gotten used to his moveset.
Give me a minute, and I'll edit it in.

: Give him a spear. Ya know? His iconic weapon? Make his Side-Tilt a spear thrust.
Make his Up-Smash a long range upward spear poke. Basically Palutena's Up-Smash.
Make his jab throw that magical tennis ball thing from OOT. Decent projectile that can be reflected like Dedede's Gordo Toss.

 

[TheYungLink]

It's fruitless to hope for Ganondorf's moveset to be given to someone else.

It's fruitful, however, to hope for another Ganon being playable with an original moveset, if you care that much about it.

Well "fruitful" may be a misnomer, but basically, if Zelda fans rally around a new Ganon being playable, that doesn't replace the current Ganondorf (because, honestly, Sakurai's statements have made it clear that that's never gonna happen), and keep it up for about 10 years if Smash lasts that long, then we might be able to make it a reality.

The problem with Zelda character requests, in general, is that they usually rally around side characters from the newest games at the time of each Smash game, with support generally dropping for characters of older games. The three big exceptions I can think of are Tingle, Skull Kid, and Midna, but their support is middling compared to heavy hitters of other series like DK, Metroid, Mario, Fire Emblem, and even Animal Crossing. I propose that the problem is that Zelda's cast is like Fire Emblem in that it changes almost every game, but unlike FE the main characters are usually Link, Zelda, and Ganon.

There's someone who IS a main character, not a side character who, at this point, Sakurai would most likely see as Assist Trophy material given Tingle (well, not in Ultimate), Skull Kid, and Midna's current status. We have multiple Links, and multiple Zeldas, but only one Ganon. I propose we rally around Ganon from the 2D Zeldas like A Link to the Past. Even without factoring in his human form, Ganon is the main antagonist of multiple Zelda entries rather than just one or two. Ganon is the antagonist of Zelda 1, the reason monsters hunt you down in Zelda II, the true identity of Agahnim and final boss of A Link to the Past, the true final boss of Oracle of Seasons / Ages, the one behind Vaati's actions in Four Swords Adventures, the body of the final boss in A Link Between Worlds, and the final boss of Breath of the Wild (though that last version is drastically different than the previous Ganons).

You can argue that the "blue-skinned pig demon wielding a trident" form of Ganon hasn't been seen in a long time. However, if we take from K. Rool fans' example and band together under one major fan want for the Zelda series, we can make it happen regardless of how long it's been since Ganon's glory days. It's up to us, especially since Hyrule Warriors Ganon is probably owned by Koei Tecmo considering the lack of Hyrule Warriors stuff in Ultimate, so rights would be an issue (plus, if I was approaching Koei Tecmo for a playable character, I'd rather go for Ryu Hayabusa or a Fatal Frame character than a version of a Zelda character only seen in a spin-off they developed).

 

[Ben Holt]

I told Lesley that I couldn't directly quote her, as that's probably a form of ban evasion and would get a warning slapped on my fat ass.

But the jist of it is that she's been lurking, and she's upset that speculation has returned to male domination since the KOS-MOS hype died out.

 

[Cosmic77]

At this point, I think Sakurai should add a one-off Zelda character just for the sake of debunking the idea that only Link, Zelda, and Ganon are capable of getting in Smash. Half of the cast exists only because Sakurai was able to clone them from an existing character, so clearly he's not automatically going to favor someone like Pig Ganon over someone like Midna, Skull Kid, or even a Champion just because the former has "Ganon" in their name.

 

[Ben Holt]

At this point, I think Sakurai should add a one-off Zelda character just for the sake of debunking the idea that only Link, Zelda, and Ganon are capable of getting in Smash. Half of the cast exists only because Sakurai was able to clone them from an existing character, so clearly he's not automatically going to favor someone like Pig Ganon over someone like Midna, Skull Kid, or even a Champion just because the former has "Ganon" in their name.

I'd love to see Midna + Wolf Link.
Would people ***** that that's a fourth Link?

 

[Curious Villager]

He had no problems including the likes of Sheik and Zero Suit Samus though
Inb4 "Those where originally transformation characters" even though Sakurai stated that he counted them as separate characters even back in Melee and Brawl...

At the end of the day, its really up to him to who he would go for. It is a shame that classic Ganon support is so hindered by the "no triforce wielders allowed" crowd and the distant desire and priority for a unique Ganondorf first though, even if that will most probably never happen at this rate so long as Sakurai is on the helm and his desire to not alienate players who are used to the character in past games...

 

[Ben Holt]

He had no problems including the likes of Sheik and Zero Suit Samus though
Inb4 "Those where originally transformation characters" even though Sakurai stated that he counted them as separate characters even back in Melee and Brawl...

At the end of the day, its really up to him to who he would go for at the end of the day. It is a shame that classic Ganon support is so hindered by the "no triforce wielders allowed" crowd and the distant desire and priority for a unique Ganondorf first though, even if that will most probably never happen so long as Sakurai is on the helm and his desire to not alienate players who are used to the character in past games...

This is why Pokémon Trainer should have been a separate character (Imagine Joker with Arsene but Arsene is Charizard / Venusaur / Blastoise, and Joker is Red.), and Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard should have been separate characters like in Project M.

 

[TheYungLink]

I'd love to see Midna + Wolf Link.
Would people ***** that that's a fourth Link?

I'd love that, we get Midna in Smash and we even get Twilight Princess Link in a playable role again, lol

Midna is my favorite of Link's partners by far, and being a bundle with Wolf Link is probably her best chance of being playable if that ever happens.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I still say Impa is the best choice. There's a good chance she's one of the few reoccurring characters in BotW2, everyone else who's important is dead. And Purah was working on a anti aging rune, so Impa could appear as her younger self in BotW2. However am not holding out hope yet, because last time I did with BotW we got Impa who's absolutely unworkable.

I can't quite believe people are dissatisfied with current Ganondorf however. He's the most unique of the old semi clones, maybe with exception of Wolf. He's honestly fine the way he is right now.

Ganon would be great, but I'm not sure how he'd work with the rest of the cast. He would probably need to be bigger than Bowser, which is no problem of course, but I fail to see yet which Ganon they'd have to choose. Not one of them really stands out the way the Links and Zeldas do. At least to me. Plus Ganon is stuck being Ganondorf's Final Smash of course.

I'm totally down for Ganon, especially after the Boss fight in World of Light. But that exact Ganon is the least likely to get in. Also a Boss fight isn't a good indication of how a character would work. Ridley as a Boss in Brawl acted drastically different from playable Ridley in Ultimate. Same with Smash 4 Pyrosphere Ridley.

Anyway I really want Impa. Cadence of Hyrule used Skyward Sword Impa with the naginata from Hyrule Warriors and I'd be ABSOLUTELY THRILLED to see her exactly like that in a Zelda game, but it's somewhat unlikely I'm afraid. Potential made-young-again Impa in BotW2 could have a naginata as her main weapon however. But we haven't seen anything from BotW2 yet to suggest it being possible.

 

[Ben Holt]

I still say Impa is the best choice. There's a good chance she's one of the few reoccurring characters in BotW2, everyone else who's important is dead. And Purah was working on a anti aging rune, so Impa could appear as her younger self in BotW2. However am not holding out hope yet, because last time I did with BotW we got Impa who's absolutely unworkable.

I can't quite believe people are dissatisfied with current Ganondorf however. He's the most unique of the old semi clones, maybe with exception of Wolf. He's honestly fine the way he is right now.

Ganon would be great, but I'm not sure how he'd work with the rest of the cast. He would probably need to be bigger than Bowser, which is no problem of course, but I fail to see yet which Ganon they'd have to choose. Not one of them really stands out the way the Links and Zeldas do. At least to me. Plus Ganon is stuck being Ganondorf's Final Smash of course.

I'm totally down for Ganon, especially after the Boss fight in World of Light. But that exact Ganon is the least likely to get in. Also a Boss fight isn't a good indication of how a character would work. Ridley as a Boss in Brawl acted drastically different from playable Ridley in Ultimate. Same with Smash 4 Pyrosphere Ridley.

Anyway I really want Impa. Cadence of Hyrule used Skyward Sword Impa with the naginata from Hyrule Warriors and I'd be ABSOLUTELY THRILLED to see her exactly like that in a Zelda game, but it's somewhat unlikely I'm afraid. Potential made-young-again Impa in BotW2 could have a naginata as her main weapon however. But we haven't seen anything from BotW2 yet to suggest it being possible.

Agreed. Impa is "due".
She's on my list.

 

[TheYungLink]

Ganon would be great, but I'm not sure how he'd work with the rest of the cast. He would probably need to be bigger than Bowser, which is no problem of course, but I fail to see yet which Ganon they'd have to choose. Not one of them really stands out the way the Links and Zeldas do. At least to me. Plus Ganon is stuck being Ganondorf's Final Smash of course.

This one:

From the Ganon thread. Plenty of reference points for updating their design for Smash, but is overall a very classic and workable look.

 

[Deleted member]

Tingle is the best choice and you all know it

 

[Koopaul]

Everyone wants young Impa. But I want old lady Impa to prove she can still kick ass.

Action grannies are highly underrepresented.

 

[Ben Holt]

This one:

View attachment 252977

From the Ganon thread. Plenty of reference points for updating their design for Smash, but is overall a very classic and workable look.

 

[TheYungLink]

Imagine if Sakurai sees us talking up Ganon as a playable character, specifically how he'd have a unique moveset reflective of his abilities in Zelda, sees this, and goes "Alright, better make Ganon a Ganondorf alternate costume / Echo Fighter."

it's the Fallen Hero Timeline and we're livin' in it

 

[Diddy Kong]

Everyone wants young Impa. But I want old lady Impa to prove she can still kick ass.

Action grannies are highly underrepresented.

If that could work, yes why not. But we haven't seen that in a Zelda game yet. Would be awesome to see it happening, but the frail looking BotW Impa is not likely to pull it off.

 

[Ben Holt]

Imagine if Sakurai sees us talking up Ganon as a playable character, specifically how he'd have a unique moveset reflective of his abilities in Zelda, sees this, and goes "Alright, better make Ganon a Ganondorf alternate costume / Echo Fighter."

it's the Fallen Hero Timeline and we're livin' in it

Hell, I just want more alternate costumes in general. Give us the Link costumes from BOTW! They got NES Link, OOT Link, TP Link, Fierce Deity Link, WW-esque Adult Link, SS Link, Link with Majora's Mask, etc.
But we got his ugly ass Tunic of the Wild.
SHORTS DON'T LOOK MANLY!!!!

Edit: And give us a Young Link alt like this:

 

[osby]

SHORTS DON'T LOOK MANLY!!!!

Subjective, but it's not like Link's meant to be the manliest guy around anyway.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

This is why Pokémon Trainer should have been a separate character (Imagine Joker with Arsene but Arsene is Charizard / Venusaur / Blastoise, and Joker is Red.), and Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard should have been separate characters like in Project M.

There's a very easy way to make each of the Pokémon playable individually and also to keep the trainer, but I'm pretty sure the reason it doesn't happen is because the way the first Pokémon games were localized in America.

Make the characters be this:

Red & Charizard
Green & Ivysaur
Blue & Squirtle

Would be ****ing genius tbh

 

[Ben Holt]

There's a very easy way to make each of the Pokémon playable individually and also to keep the trainer, but I'm pretty sure the reason it doesn't happen is because the way the first Pokémon games were localized in America.

Make the characters be this:

Red & Charizard
Green & Ivysaur
Blue & Squirtle

Would be ****ing genius tbh

Leaf is her new name.

 

[Saelind Genesis]

Leaf is her new name.

I know, but she was called Blue once.

And I think it's a better name anyway

 

[Cadillac]

If it's a Zelda character I actually prefer Ghirahim
Am I the only one?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

If it's a Zelda character I actually prefer Ghirahim
Am I the only one?

Only people who have goodnatured hearts want Ghirahim, case and point, a literal neonazi I knew who believes whites are inherently more intelligent said Ghirahim would be terrible because he's gay, meaning disliking Ghirahim makes you a bad person

 

[Jassassino]

Only people who have goodnatured hearts want Ghirahim, case and point, a literal neonazi I knew who believes whites are inherently more intelligent said Ghirahim would be terrible because he's gay, meaning disliking Ghirahim makes you a bad person

Wait is Ghirahim canonically gay? I mean I always had my thoughts but... cool!

A lot of LOZ potential. Impa would be a lot of fun, as would Urbosa and Skull Kid. From HW I'd give it to Linkle, which I think if there is to be a Hyrule Warriors 2, is a massive possibility.

Part of me is sad that a Lynel from BOTW didn't make an appearance as an assist.

Edit: One I would really love though is Majoras Mask Link. Let us hit L and R simultaneously and switch masks. Between Heavy Goron, Medium weight Zora, light Deku and a time limited Fierce Deity (like 10 seconds).

 

[GKMLTTSB]

I'd love to see Midna + Wolf Link.
Would people ***** that that's a fourth Link?

Add Midna on her own and have her summon a Twilight Wolfos a la Hyrule Warriors for a number of her moves.
No more Links.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So now a couple days have passed, are there any rumors or are we back to good old-fashioned guesswork?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Wait is Ghirahim canonically gay? I mean I always had my thoughts but... cool!

A lot of LOZ potential. Impa would be a lot of fun, as would Urbosa and Skull Kid. From HW I'd give it to Linkle, which I think if there is to be a Hyrule Warriors 2, is a massive possibility.

Part of me is sad that a Lynel from BOTW didn't make an appearance as an assist.

Edit: One I would really love though is Majoras Mask Link. Let us hit L and R simultaneously and switch masks. Between Heavy Goron, Medium weight Zora, light Deku and a time limited Fierce Deity (like 10 seconds).

No, the neonazi chud went "Ghirahim is gay and I hate gay people", nothing canon about his sexuality

 

[3BitSaurus]

Welp, can't say I'm surprised by no Smash at TGA. Actually, I'm more surprised at the lack of Bayo 3 and other new first-party games than the lack of Smash. NMH and The Wolf Among Us were good though.

Though, now that we're back at square one for CP5... yeah, gonna bank on Phoenix for this. As for the reveal date, January seems like the safest option to me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Everyone wants young Impa. But I want old lady Impa to prove she can still kick ass.

Action grannies are highly underrepresented.

My compromise is her Oracles version. She's still an elderly woman, but she also has lots of muscle and potential. It'd be our first heavyset playable female in Smash too, an extra bonus.

 

[NintenRob]

We're back?!

We're back!



*Sakurai decides to make the 3H characters essentially Fire Emblem Pokemon Trainer, with Byleth in the background switching between Claude, Dmitri and Edelgard. Just to protest.*

"Never ask me for anything ever again."

You joke, but I'd honestly love that.

As long as that was it for Fire Emblem

 

[Jassassino]

No, the neonazi chud went "Ghirahim is gay and I hate gay people", nothing canon about his sexuality

Utter gutter trash.

 

[NintenRob]

If we're talking Zelda characters though, I'd have to go with this guy

 

[Wunderwaft]

Zelda does have a wide cast of characters with great potential for Smash. Whether it's Impa, Pig Ganon, Skull Kid, Midna, or even Tingle, it's obvious there is demand for a new Zelda character. The last one was Toon Link in Brawl, a lot of time has passed since then and the list of candidates and demand has only grown since then. The only difference is that those with actual mainstay popularity have been filtered from the rest and we now know who is a fan favorite and who isn't. The ones I listed fit into what I said and are the most demanded Zelda characters for Smash. When the next Smash game arrives I believe Zelda's newcomer demand will hit a peak which will either gracefully settle or violently crash. In this game we received a redesign for the Triforce wielders and Young Link making a return, which helped mitigate the reaction of the fanbase when no new Zelda newcomer was revealed. For the next game however? A new fighter is gonna be what's needed to satisfy the demands of Zelda fans, anything less won't be enough.

 

[Flyboy]

Kim Kardashian is also famous for being famous. Just saying.

Anywho, the new No More Heroes trailer seems to be one of the popular ones of the Award Show. What do you all think of Travis? Particularly people who are unfamiliar with the series.

The trailer at TGA reignited my love and want for him in Smash. I really think he has a shot post-pass, and I think out of all my wants right now he's the one I want the most. I've been requesting him since Brawl and while his thread right now may not be one of the big ones, he's absolutely a long time fan request, even if his stock has dropped in some ways as of late. Travis Strikes Again added tons of great moves to his arsenal and the style of that gorgeous extended trailer really shows that Suda51 is back and better than ever and doing what he does best.

So yeah basically he's my dream most-wanted tied with 2B now.

 

[Barrubo]

I would love to have the champions from BotW in Smash. Especially Daruk since he would be the big character that wields a sword. Ganondorf doesn't count.

 

[Night Gale]

Even then, I'd rather have Skull Kid or Vaati from the villains side.

You have failed me, GK. Veran > Skull Kid.

No more Links.

Okay, now I understand your logic.

 

[Flyboy]

My compromise is her Oracles version. She's still an elderly woman, but she also has lots of muscle and potential. It'd be our first heavyset playable female in Smash too, an extra bonus.

This is a huge brain play. Shame the Oracle games are in the same place as Hyrule Warriors in that they're only kinda Nintendo games and so we aren't super likely to see stuff from them anywhere else. Shame because Oracle Impa and HW Impa are like the two best versions of Impa.

 

[Flik]

I think people underestimate Geno's importance in SMRPG. He's obviously not the main character but it's his goals that largely drive the plot

(he's still definitely on the obscurer side of picks though)

There is a reason why he's a Legend Level Spirit and not Ace.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

My compromise is her Oracles version. She's still an elderly woman, but she also has lots of muscle and potential. It'd be our first heavyset playable female in Smash too, an extra bonus.

It would be cool to get a female character who's also a heavyweight like Bowser, Donkey Kong, and King K. Rool, though there's admittedly not a lot of choices for that kind of character. Off the top of my head, all I can think of are...

• Kangaskhan (Pokemon)
• Zarya (Overwatch)
• Barbarian/Sonya (Diablo/Heroes of the Storm)
• Yuugi (Touhou)