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Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

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ProfPeanut

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I wonder what other characters are considered deconfirmed as well, though I think that deserves a thread of its own.
To my knowledge, Travis has been deconfirmed by Suda himself, while Master Chief was deconfirmed by one of the lead developers.

We also have Cuphead's makers talking about how they'd like for him to be in Smash, which is usually interpreted as a soft deconfirmation (an NDA would've prevented them from speaking about Smash at all).
 

Wunderwaft

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To my knowledge, Travis has been deconfirmed by Suda himself, while Master Chief was deconfirmed by one of the lead developers.

We also have Cuphead's makers talking about how they'd like for him to be in Smash, which is usually interpreted as a soft deconfirmation (an NDA would've prevented them from speaking about Smash at all).
Which leaves us with Steve and Banjo as the biggest contenders for a Microsoft rep. And personally I've always believed that Steve makes the most sense to make it in Smash between these two. I mean it's Minecraft, what more do I have to say about it?
 

soyperson

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I'm 100% sure that either Steve, Banjo, or Cuphead will get in, but only one of those three. Besides that, I think the Knight from Hollow Knight has good chances, as well as Sora Kingdomhearts and Amaterasu from Okami. I've also got hopes for Kris (the player character from Deltarune) or possibly the Snipperclips duo. You never know.
 

dezeray112

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It seems Jane was indeed some early code/file stuff for Joker, likely (if not definitely, based on the filename) a scrapped alt. imo.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

y'all might've seen this, but it wasn't shared here so...

As for this "pillars" theory, I think Sakurai confirmed each DLC fighter would have their own spirit board (correct me if I'm wrong).
Hmm.....so I just recently saw the new Persona 5 Royal trailer which featured this new character and she wields a sword and a shotgun. Makes me wonder if they can make her unique.

You guys want to hear something crazy? The next Smash character reveal (or two) is only 49 days from today! I have a couple questions for you all. One, how many characters do you think will be revealed in Nintendo's E3 presentation? And secondly, who do you think it/they will be?
Well, E3 is one of the biggest gaming conventions and I am certain that they are most likely to unveil some Smash news during the event. As for which character(s) could be in frame for a reveal, I would possibly opt for the "brave" coded character to be shown and possibly another new character in a similar fashion to how Roy and Ryu were unveiled during the Smash Direct Presentation for the Wii-U/3DS versions a few years ago.

EDIT: Another thing that I forgot to mention is that with Persona 5R's release date set to be Oct 2019 (for Japan) and 2020 (in the West), I think this safely debunks the 5chan leak (which had Joker, Erdrick, Steve, Hayabusa and Doomguy) even further in which they said that the game is out during the game is due to release in the first half of 2019.

https://www.resetera.com/threads/su...ride-is-still-on.91979/page-361#post-20139573
 
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Ovaltine

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I'm 100% sure that either Steve, Banjo, or Cuphead will get in, but only one of those three. Besides that, I think the Knight from Hollow Knight has good chances, as well as Sora Kingdomhearts and Amaterasu from Okami. I've also got hopes for Kris (the player character from Deltarune) or possibly the Snipperclips duo. You never know.
Steve's in... an iffy position. I think it was a senior community manager at Mojang who was loudly denouncing him as a playable character, yet being unwilling to talk about anything else. My guess would be a Mii costume or something of the sort. Cuphead was also deconfirmed by his devs, wherein they said, post-Switch reveal, that they'd 'love to see them in Smash'. That'd shatter any kind of NDA right there.

I really think it's between Steve and Banjo now, if we get a Microsoft rep at all.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Steve's in... an iffy position. I think it was a senior community manager at Mojang who was loudly denouncing him as a playable character, yet being unwilling to talk about anything else. My guess would be a Mii costume or something of the sort. Cuphead was also deconfirmed by his devs, wherein they said, post-Switch reveal, that they'd 'love to see them in Smash'. That'd shatter any kind of NDA right there.

I really think it's between Steve and Banjo now, if we get a Microsoft rep at all.
She's just a person with an opinion and doesn't actually decide who gets in. She just hates the idea. Which is irrelevant to his inclusion since she doesn't make the decisions. It seems like Microsoft doesn't much care if people dislike Steve or not, cause frankly her talking trash about their product is not really a good idea for business. There's a difference between criticism and trash talk, and hers wasn't criticism in any way.

I agree it's between Steve and Banjo right now. I didn't take the Chief tweet too seriously, mostly cause the developer is known for trolling. Then 343 spoke up more about the situation, which actually gives a bit more evidence to it being real. It's hard to take a person who constantly trolls and lies with his tweets seriously. But when a second factor comes up to help confirm it being more realistic, the situation changes. So now I have a more concrete reason to believe Chief isn't part of the Fighter's Pass. Of course, I think he could still be a costume or some kind of DLC in general. Even a free spirit update for all we know. The ironic part about the actual context of the tweet is that the developer was replying(rather crudely) to a person who just wanted Chief as part of the game's DLC in general, not playable specifically. This is where it got muddy as is. What this means is if he's not trolling(which is likely the case), then we won't see Chief in any way at all(especially not part of the Fighter's Pass), which is also odd since Halo is that damn important to gaming history. Even smaller NPC roles is still important(basically Spirits or Bosses) content for a franchise to have. Especially a huge one like that.
 

thisjustin2001

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I reeeeally hope the DLC isn't 3rd Party only...
Besides Toad, what Nintendo All-Star is missing from Smash Bros? Aside from Rhythm Heaven, is there any big (ish) Nintendo series not represented in Smash? I feel Nintendo has been really scraping the bottom of the barrel when it comes to first-party inclusions in Smash. For me personally, I wouldn't mind if we didn't see any first-party fighters for DLC, and besides maybe Toad and Rhythm Heaven rep, I don't feel like we need any more Nintendo characters either.
 
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GoodGrief741

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is there any big (ish) Nintendo series not represented in Smash?
Off the top of my head:

Golden Sun
Advance/Nintendo Wars
Custom Robo
Chibi Robo
Excitebike
Panel de Pon
StarTropics
Balloon Fight
Style Savvy
Brain Age
Sin & Punishment

There's plenty more, those are just the ones that came to mind quickly. There's also some games that didn't make it to franchise but imo count as 'big' (ARMS, Murasame Castle, Mach Rider), and a metric ton of Nintendo characters from existing franchises that don't feel at all like scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Of course, it all depends on your definition of big. Is it sales? Number of games? Age?
 

thisjustin2001

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Off the top of my head:

Golden Sun
Advance/Nintendo Wars
Custom Robo
Chibi Robo
Excitebike
Panel de Pon
StarTropics
Balloon Fight
Style Savvy
Brain Age
Sin & Punishment

There's plenty more, those are just the ones that came to mind quickly. There's also some games that didn't make it to franchise but imo count as 'big' (ARMS, Murasame Castle, Mach Rider), and a metric ton of Nintendo characters from existing franchises that don't feel at all like scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Of course, it all depends on your definition of big. Is it sales? Number of games? Age?
I used the wrong words to describe what I was trying to say. I meant relatively big and ongoing. I should've said ongoing, haha. Sorry bout that.
 
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GoodGrief741

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I used the wrong words to describe what I was trying to say. I meant relatively big and ongoing. I should've said ongoing, haha. Sorry bout that.
Well, with Nintendo, ongoing is certainly a relative term, heh. Personally I don't think they should restrict themselves to only ongoing series, I like a mix of old and new.
 

OnyanRings

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Off the top of my head:

Golden Sun
Advance/Nintendo Wars
Custom Robo
Chibi Robo
Excitebike
Panel de Pon
StarTropics
Balloon Fight
Style Savvy
Brain Age
Sin & Punishment

There's plenty more, those are just the ones that came to mind quickly. There's also some games that didn't make it to franchise but imo count as 'big' (ARMS, Murasame Castle, Mach Rider), and a metric ton of Nintendo characters from existing franchises that don't feel at all like scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Of course, it all depends on your definition of big. Is it sales? Number of games? Age?
Yeah, if spirits don't deconfirm characters then nintendo still has a 100+ characters that they could use.
 

Ornl

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Not counting the Mii, there are a total of 23 first-party licenses represented by at least 1 Fighter.
Not counting the 4 upcoming DLC, there is a total of 9 third-party licenses represented by at least 1 Fighter.
With 4 new licenses in the DLC, the total would be 36 different series.
With 1 new first-party license and only 3 third-party licenses in the DLs, the ratio would be 24/12 (or 2 to 1).

I would like the overall representation to be this way. I like the idea that the Nintendo series can be exactly twice as important as the other series, but I have no idea who could be a new Fighter from a new Nintendo license, even if I hope for one.
 
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OnyanRings

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The question about first party interests me, for a very personal reason (no need to invoke the Nintendo authority, it's just for sharing).

Not counting the Miis, there is a total of 23 first party licenses represented by at least 1 Fighter.
Not counting the 4 upcoming DLCs, there is a total of 9 third party licenses represented by at least 1 Fighter.
With 4 new licenses in the DLCs, the total would be 32 different series.
With 1 new first party license and only 3 third party licenses in the DLCs, the ratio would be 24/12 (or 2 for 1).

I would like the overall representation to be that way. I like the total number of 32, because it is a power of two, like all the powers of the concoles (8-bit, 16-bit, 64-bit...). And I like the idea that the Nintendo series can be exactly twice as important as the other series. So I'd like a new Fighter from a new Nintendo license.
However, my belief is that the pillars theory works, deconfirming all series already represented by Assist Trophies (including Monster Hunter) or Spirits (including Custom Robo, Drill Dozer, Excitebikes, Jam with the Band, Nintendo Wars, Sin and Punishment...).
Finally, I have no idea who could be a possible new Fighter from a new Nintendo license, even if I hope for one.
Mike jones maybe ? Since we didn't get a retro rep he'd be perfect ! (And he'd probably be a fun character)
 

Door Key Pig

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You think there could be a "combination" Rhythm Paradise character with those from different minigames ala Duck Hunt, that technically doesn't fall under existing RP spirits? Of course, maybe Chorus Kids were the ideal rep of Smash 4 and they're already a spirit if that whole spirits deconfirm pillar theory thing is true. Tibby could make sense as the story protagonist of the series with a fitting use of moves from all the minigames, tho even to a RP fan like me he's a bit on the obscurer and less marketed side unlike Chorus Kids. He was the star of the last game, but it's been a few years since it came out DIGITALLY in the US.

But hey, they might want some new 1st party representation at some point.
 

soyperson

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Golden Sun
Advance/Nintendo Wars
Custom Robo
Chibi Robo
Excitebike
Panel de Pon
StarTropics
Balloon Fight
Style Savvy
Brain Age
Sin & Punishment
Why does everyone say StarTropics? StarTropics was a 2-game throwaway series from the 90's, people mainly know about it because of the Wii Virtual Console releases.
Golden Sun, maybe. We've already got two Balloon Fight references, including a whole stage, so I don't think any more is coming; with Brain Age, we've already got an Assist Trophy.
I just don't see these already-neglected franchises getting a lot more love than they've gotten already.
 

Flyboy

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Style Savvy and Wave Race baby!!

Out of all of them though I feel Rhythm Heaven and Style Savvy are the two big ones. Sure, they both have music, which is cool, but both series' are big sellers with cross-demographic appeal especially in Japan.
 

Cap'n Jack

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She's just a person with an opinion and doesn't actually decide who gets in. She just hates the idea. Which is irrelevant to his inclusion since she doesn't make the decisions. It seems like Microsoft doesn't much care if people dislike Steve or not, cause frankly her talking trash about their product is not really a good idea for business. There's a difference between criticism and trash talk, and hers wasn't criticism in any way.

I agree it's between Steve and Banjo right now. I didn't take the Chief tweet too seriously, mostly cause the developer is known for trolling. Then 343 spoke up more about the situation, which actually gives a bit more evidence to it being real. It's hard to take a person who constantly trolls and lies with his tweets seriously. But when a second factor comes up to help confirm it being more realistic, the situation changes. So now I have a more concrete reason to believe Chief isn't part of the Fighter's Pass. Of course, I think he could still be a costume or some kind of DLC in general. Even a free spirit update for all we know. The ironic part about the actual context of the tweet is that the developer was replying(rather crudely) to a person who just wanted Chief as part of the game's DLC in general, not playable specifically. This is where it got muddy as is. What this means is if he's not trolling(which is likely the case), then we won't see Chief in any way at all(especially not part of the Fighter's Pass), which is also odd since Halo is that damn important to gaming history. Even smaller NPC roles is still important(basically Spirits or Bosses) content for a franchise to have. Especially a huge one like that.
Seems like she clearly broke NDA as well. She wouldn’t play a factor in if he is included or not, sure, but she would know.
 

shinhed-echi

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Why does everyone say StarTropics? StarTropics was a 2-game throwaway series from the 90's, people mainly know about it because of the Wii Virtual Console releases.
Golden Sun, maybe. We've already got two Balloon Fight references, including a whole stage, so I don't think any more is coming; with Brain Age, we've already got an Assist Trophy.
I just don't see these already-neglected franchises getting a lot more love than they've gotten already.
Does it matter how people know about them though?
Not every series has to be known from Smash alone.

Also:

Excitebike is 2 games (and an online remake)
Balloon fight is 2 games.
Sin & Punishment is 2 games.
Panel de Pon is 1 game (And a reskin for the west)


If we’re going to have a list about these games, Startropics has every right to be there too.

... and as unlikely as it’s inclusoon in smash may be, ST at least doesn’t have a spirit weighing its chances down.
 

GoodGrief741

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Why does everyone say StarTropics? StarTropics was a 2-game throwaway series from the 90's, people mainly know about it because of the Wii Virtual Console releases.
Because they're pretty great games. And the first one must have sold enough to merit a sequel. Hardly a throwaway.
 

Ovaltine

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Just gonna put my two cents here:

As unlikely as any new material for StarTropics is, a game being from an old and currently irrelevant franchise doesn't invalidate any positive opinions about it. That mentality is all over the Smash fandom and I, quite frankly, feel like it's gotta go.
 

Door Key Pig

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Style Savvy and Wave Race baby!!

Out of all of them though I feel Rhythm Heaven and Style Savvy are the two big ones. Sure, they both have music, which is cool, but both series' are big sellers with cross-demographic appeal especially in Japan.
i mean, RH didn't even get a Mii costume or AT when less relevant Nintendo franchises did... (Custom Robo, Sin & Punishment, Golden Sun)
 

Ura

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i mean, RH didn't even get a Mii costume or AT when less relevant Nintendo franchises did... (Custom Robo, Sin & Punishment, Golden Sun)
Neither did Advance Wars unfortunately. And there's so many Mii Costumes to choose from for that series like the CO's or the Infantry. Maybe there's hope for DLC although I have my doubts.
 

Door Key Pig

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Yeah a RH assist trophy might have been a bit of a challenge to make, but a Mii costume? Lip got one, and so did the assist trophies that didn't return from Brawl, (Custom Robo, Sin and Punishment) one of which's copyright wasn't even renewed by Nintendo in recent memory (while RH and others' were).
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Seems like she clearly broke NDA as well. She wouldn’t play a factor in if he is included or not, sure, but she would know.
Not really. She can't say if he's in the game or not, but she can say her opinion of the idea of him. That's not a clearly broken NDA. It could actually be that she couldn't say anything about Steve in Smash via an NDA, opinions or otherwise, of course. But simply saying opinions is not inherently a normal NDA thing. The only thing that's important is whether they can talk about them being in Smash or not specifically. And that means literally the content existing. She never mentioned any of that, so again, it's possible outright she broke NDA, but it's too hard to say or determine since we don't know what the NDA is. To paraphrase someone from an earlier topic; we don't have evidence of whether she knew anything or not, just that she could. ...Well, not paraphrasing enough, but the point is there's a huge lack of evidence of her being involved with any Steve negotiating, or her knowing a thing. All we know is she doesn't like the character, and that's it. And she's free to dislike who she chooses.

If there was an issue, at best it'd be her trash talking one of their icons. It's not knowingly treated as an issue, so it's better to look at her case of "knows nada" and leave it at that. Albeit, maybe she knows, and that's why she's so against the idea, but can't say more than her opinion as that would outright give us clear information of him being in or not. So she's in a pickle.
 

Cap'n Jack

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Not really. She can't say if he's in the game or not, but she can say her opinion of the idea of him. That's not a clearly broken NDA. It could actually be that she couldn't say anything about Steve in Smash via an NDA, opinions or otherwise, of course. But simply saying opinions is not inherently a normal NDA thing. The only thing that's important is whether they can talk about them being in Smash or not specifically. And that means literally the content existing. She never mentioned any of that, so again, it's possible outright she broke NDA, but it's too hard to say or determine since we don't know what the NDA is. To paraphrase someone from an earlier topic; we don't have evidence of whether she knew anything or not, just that she could. ...Well, not paraphrasing enough, but the point is there's a huge lack of evidence of her being involved with any Steve negotiating, or her knowing a thing. All we know is she doesn't like the character, and that's it. And she's free to dislike who she chooses.

If there was an issue, at best it'd be her trash talking one of their icons. It's not knowingly treated as an issue, so it's better to look at her case of "knows nada" and leave it at that. Albeit, maybe she knows, and that's why she's so against the idea, but can't say more than her opinion as that would outright give us clear information of him being in or not. So she's in a pickle.
Ehhh, I mean I suppose it could be stretched to be still okay. But it should not be taken so lightly
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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Ehhh, I mean I suppose it could be stretched to be still okay. But it should not be taken so lightly
It really should be taken lightly. She doesn't speak for who gets in. Whether she knows the truth or not is irrelevant because her actual statements have no bearing on his chances. She simply dislikes the idea. That's all they actually mean.
 

Cap'n Jack

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Sorry I don’t ageee. But that’s fine. It doesn’t really matter what we think on the Internet.
 

TheCJBrine

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Hmm.....so I just recently saw the new Persona 5 Royal trailer which featured this new character and she wields a sword and a shotgun. Makes me wonder if they can make her unique.
Perhaps, but I personally don't expect the pass to have multiple characters from the same series, plus we don't know if she was actually whom "Jane" was referring to.
 

Ridrool64

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You may have been wondering why I think Frisk is on the table. To prevent this post from being too big, here's why in a spoiler.

I've got a lot of things going through my mind, but I feel like Frisk is easily the top candidate from indies at this point, and that's a bit of a minor note. There's a big 4 reasons I think, at the bare minimum, Frisk made the list of candidates, even if Sakurai decided not to go for an Undertale character.
  1. First and foremost, the game's had pretty strong success basically everywhere it went (compared to Shovel Knight, for instance, I've only found evidence that sales-wise, Undertale has consistently outperformed it [at least in terms of player base, implying sales are similary in Undertale's favor], even with Shovel Knight's head start, and SK's in Smash), especially for an indie title, and has received tons upon tons of accolades (mostly nominations, with a good few wins). This is the cause of another reason, but at the bare minimum, lots, and I mean lots, of people have heard of Undertale. Just a month ago, it was one of the best performing Switch indies, and I doubt that'll change for some time. Even if it's not a massive chart topper, it's no slouch on the indie scene.
  2. Since so many people have purchased Undertale, Frisk (alongside Flowey, Papyrus, and, yes, Sans) is at the very least notable, even if you'd hesitate to call any of them iconic. Even beyond people who've personally played the game, there are those who can easily recognize the Human from Undertale, and even more characters beyond just the Human. Frisk also easily stands out as a potentially unique character (even if the SOUL change mechanic isn't unique, the idea of choosing morality has literally never been done, and wouldn't be too hard to implement), but this probably didn't affect Nintendo's decision to choose them, it'd be something that would help for Sakurai.
  3. Rather than as a negative (since, while great games, I don't see Shovel Knight/Shantae as the king/queen of indies), I see Shovel Knight getting an Assist and Shantae getting a spirit as positives for indie representation, because it proves that Sakurai would even allow indie content. And, yes, I do believe Undertale has the credibility, popularity, notoriety, and even relevancy to be the game that breaks the indie door open. And that assumes Nintendo sees Indies as separate from other third parties in general, otherwise then Toby's just the only person they need to consult for Undertale representation.
  4. Toby's ostensibly a fan of the series (talking about Smash Ultimate's reveal on Twitter as if it were more important than Switch!Undertale's reveal, referencing it in Deltarune), so I find it very likely that if Sakurai or his representatives asked him for permission he'd more than likely say yes. As for fear of spoilers, that doesn't seem to be much of an issue if the Undertale x Groove Coaster collab is any indication. (Sure, Sak's played Undertale, but he's played many games, and it doesn't seem like one of those standouts to him, so that's probably not going to be a factor if Undertale is chosen).
There's more I could say as to why I think Frisk is happening, especially why they would get in over Sans (I will say it's not just because Sans isn't the protagonist), but that's for another time. Now of course Frisk is by no means a lock, they could just be absent, Toby could officially confirm he's not involved with Smash, openly discuss what it would be like if Frisk were in Smash, and even if we do get an Undertale character it could be Papyrus (I think I can understand him getting in quite a bit more than back when we rated him) or, yes, Sans, but I do think they are at the forefront of the indie scene and strongest Undertale candidate. I'm also doing work on a doc, an extremely elaborate one, that'll be posted in the more active Frisk thread but it probably won't be ready for some time. Yes, there might be some bias in my words.
Unfortunately I've taken so long to talk about this that the topic has changed. My sphere is pretty varied, but I struggle to think of new first party franchises I actually desire... I've technically been content ever since Brawl. It would be weird for Splatoon to be the only Nintendo owned new series... but, assuming we only get one pass, that's what I feel like could reasonably happen. Also, I would hesitate to call Steve disconfirmed, short of somebody higher-up explicitly saying "no", or Steve getting a Mii Costume. Not even Banjo/Master Chief/Marcus Fenix's confirmation would technically kill Steve.
 

GoodGrief741

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You may have been wondering why I think Frisk is on the table. To prevent this post from being too big, here's why in a spoiler.

I've got a lot of things going through my mind, but I feel like Frisk is easily the top candidate from indies at this point, and that's a bit of a minor note. There's a big 4 reasons I think, at the bare minimum, Frisk made the list of candidates, even if Sakurai decided not to go for an Undertale character.
  1. First and foremost, the game's had pretty strong success basically everywhere it went (compared to Shovel Knight, for instance, I've only found evidence that sales-wise, Undertale has consistently outperformed it [at least in terms of player base, implying sales are similary in Undertale's favor], even with Shovel Knight's head start, and SK's in Smash), especially for an indie title, and has received tons upon tons of accolades (mostly nominations, with a good few wins). This is the cause of another reason, but at the bare minimum, lots, and I mean lots, of people have heard of Undertale. Just a month ago, it was one of the best performing Switch indies, and I doubt that'll change for some time. Even if it's not a massive chart topper, it's no slouch on the indie scene.
  2. Since so many people have purchased Undertale, Frisk (alongside Flowey, Papyrus, and, yes, Sans) is at the very least notable, even if you'd hesitate to call any of them iconic. Even beyond people who've personally played the game, there are those who can easily recognize the Human from Undertale, and even more characters beyond just the Human. Frisk also easily stands out as a potentially unique character (even if the SOUL change mechanic isn't unique, the idea of choosing morality has literally never been done, and wouldn't be too hard to implement), but this probably didn't affect Nintendo's decision to choose them, it'd be something that would help for Sakurai.
  3. Rather than as a negative (since, while great games, I don't see Shovel Knight/Shantae as the king/queen of indies), I see Shovel Knight getting an Assist and Shantae getting a spirit as positives for indie representation, because it proves that Sakurai would even allow indie content. And, yes, I do believe Undertale has the credibility, popularity, notoriety, and even relevancy to be the game that breaks the indie door open. And that assumes Nintendo sees Indies as separate from other third parties in general, otherwise then Toby's just the only person they need to consult for Undertale representation.
  4. Toby's ostensibly a fan of the series (talking about Smash Ultimate's reveal on Twitter as if it were more important than Switch!Undertale's reveal, referencing it in Deltarune), so I find it very likely that if Sakurai or his representatives asked him for permission he'd more than likely say yes. As for fear of spoilers, that doesn't seem to be much of an issue if the Undertale x Groove Coaster collab is any indication. (Sure, Sak's played Undertale, but he's played many games, and it doesn't seem like one of those standouts to him, so that's probably not going to be a factor if Undertale is chosen).
There's more I could say as to why I think Frisk is happening, especially why they would get in over Sans (I will say it's not just because Sans isn't the protagonist), but that's for another time. Now of course Frisk is by no means a lock, they could just be absent, Toby could officially confirm he's not involved with Smash, openly discuss what it would be like if Frisk were in Smash, and even if we do get an Undertale character it could be Papyrus (I think I can understand him getting in quite a bit more than back when we rated him) or, yes, Sans, but I do think they are at the forefront of the indie scene and strongest Undertale candidate. I'm also doing work on a doc, an extremely elaborate one, that'll be posted in the more active Frisk thread but it probably won't be ready for some time. Yes, there might be some bias in my words.
Unfortunately I've taken so long to talk about this that the topic has changed. My sphere is pretty varied, but I struggle to think of new first party franchises I actually desire... I've technically been content ever since Brawl. It would be weird for Splatoon to be the only Nintendo owned new series... but, assuming we only get one pass, that's what I feel like could reasonably happen. Also, I would hesitate to call Steve disconfirmed, short of somebody higher-up explicitly saying "no", or Steve getting a Mii Costume. Not even Banjo/Master Chief/Marcus Fenix's confirmation would technically kill Steve.
I think Frisk is impossible, both because of the lack of moveset potential and how being in Smash would go against the themes of the game.
 

thisjustin2001

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 28, 2019
Messages
88
You may have been wondering why I think Frisk is on the table. To prevent this post from being too big, here's why in a spoiler.

I've got a lot of things going through my mind, but I feel like Frisk is easily the top candidate from indies at this point, and that's a bit of a minor note. There's a big 4 reasons I think, at the bare minimum, Frisk made the list of candidates, even if Sakurai decided not to go for an Undertale character.
  1. First and foremost, the game's had pretty strong success basically everywhere it went (compared to Shovel Knight, for instance, I've only found evidence that sales-wise, Undertale has consistently outperformed it [at least in terms of player base, implying sales are similary in Undertale's favor], even with Shovel Knight's head start, and SK's in Smash), especially for an indie title, and has received tons upon tons of accolades (mostly nominations, with a good few wins). This is the cause of another reason, but at the bare minimum, lots, and I mean lots, of people have heard of Undertale. Just a month ago, it was one of the best performing Switch indies, and I doubt that'll change for some time. Even if it's not a massive chart topper, it's no slouch on the indie scene.
  2. Since so many people have purchased Undertale, Frisk (alongside Flowey, Papyrus, and, yes, Sans) is at the very least notable, even if you'd hesitate to call any of them iconic. Even beyond people who've personally played the game, there are those who can easily recognize the Human from Undertale, and even more characters beyond just the Human. Frisk also easily stands out as a potentially unique character (even if the SOUL change mechanic isn't unique, the idea of choosing morality has literally never been done, and wouldn't be too hard to implement), but this probably didn't affect Nintendo's decision to choose them, it'd be something that would help for Sakurai.
  3. Rather than as a negative (since, while great games, I don't see Shovel Knight/Shantae as the king/queen of indies), I see Shovel Knight getting an Assist and Shantae getting a spirit as positives for indie representation, because it proves that Sakurai would even allow indie content. And, yes, I do believe Undertale has the credibility, popularity, notoriety, and even relevancy to be the game that breaks the indie door open. And that assumes Nintendo sees Indies as separate from other third parties in general, otherwise then Toby's just the only person they need to consult for Undertale representation.
  4. Toby's ostensibly a fan of the series (talking about Smash Ultimate's reveal on Twitter as if it were more important than Switch!Undertale's reveal, referencing it in Deltarune), so I find it very likely that if Sakurai or his representatives asked him for permission he'd more than likely say yes. As for fear of spoilers, that doesn't seem to be much of an issue if the Undertale x Groove Coaster collab is any indication. (Sure, Sak's played Undertale, but he's played many games, and it doesn't seem like one of those standouts to him, so that's probably not going to be a factor if Undertale is chosen).
There's more I could say as to why I think Frisk is happening, especially why they would get in over Sans (I will say it's not just because Sans isn't the protagonist), but that's for another time. Now of course Frisk is by no means a lock, they could just be absent, Toby could officially confirm he's not involved with Smash, openly discuss what it would be like if Frisk were in Smash, and even if we do get an Undertale character it could be Papyrus (I think I can understand him getting in quite a bit more than back when we rated him) or, yes, Sans, but I do think they are at the forefront of the indie scene and strongest Undertale candidate. I'm also doing work on a doc, an extremely elaborate one, that'll be posted in the more active Frisk thread but it probably won't be ready for some time. Yes, there might be some bias in my words.
Unfortunately I've taken so long to talk about this that the topic has changed. My sphere is pretty varied, but I struggle to think of new first party franchises I actually desire... I've technically been content ever since Brawl. It would be weird for Splatoon to be the only Nintendo owned new series... but, assuming we only get one pass, that's what I feel like could reasonably happen. Also, I would hesitate to call Steve disconfirmed, short of somebody higher-up explicitly saying "no", or Steve getting a Mii Costume. Not even Banjo/Master Chief/Marcus Fenix's confirmation would technically kill Steve.
Sans is a lot more iconic, recognizable, unique and requested than Frisk. I don't really understand the thought that's been getting kinda popular recently that Sakurai would pick Frisk over Sans. Choosing Frisk over Sans only because it's the player character would be like adding Red to Smash before Pikachu. Because Red is playable and Pikachu is not, so Red has to be more important/better fit than Pikachu, right?
 

Ornl

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 25, 2018
Messages
617
Location
France
Porky's helicopter appears in the stage Foursite since Melee. Porky's Theme is a music in in the stage New Pork City since Brawl. Porky Statue appears in the stage New Pork City since Brawl. Porky appears as a boss in Brawl. Porky appears as a trophy in Brawl and Sm4sh. Porky appears as a Smash Tour item in Sm4sh. In Ultimate, only The Absolutely Safe Capsule is used as a Spirit, and its sprite is the empty variant.
I think Porky could have two ways to come back, whatever its form : either with a pack Undertale, or with a new mode.
 

Robdelia

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2019
Messages
121
You could probably design Frisk's moveset as just an amalgamation (hah) of various attack patterns that the monsters do in Undertale. Them being in Smash would go against the themes of their game but we also have :ultvillager:, :ultisabelle: and :ultwiifittrainer: in the game so I doubt the devs care.
 

soyperson

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 30, 2018
Messages
102
Location
east tennessee
Switch FC
SW-6207-2383-9806
Just gonna put my two cents here:

As unlikely as any new material for StarTropics is, a game being from an old and currently irrelevant franchise doesn't invalidate any positive opinions about it. That mentality is all over the Smash fandom and I, quite frankly, feel like it's gotta go.
That's entirely fair. I was pretty needlessly dismissive, sorry.
 
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