Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[SmashChu]

It would be pretty interesting to see how the fight/mercy mechanic would be translated into a fighting game, but I don't think we'll get an indie character just yet. Also, just because a rumor or "leak" has been debunked doesn't mean the character is off the table.

Undertale is past the typical indie game. It's huge in Japan and both the original and Deltarune where headlines in a Direct (which is more than most indie games). I don't think it's a problem. People know what Undertale is.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Undertale is past the typical indie game. It's huge in Japan and both the original and Deltarune where headlines in a Direct (which is more than most indie games). I don't think it's a problem. People know what Undertale is.

Yes but it's still an indie title just like Shovel Knight, Shantae, Gunvolt, and Cave Story. Personally I don't think we'll be seeing a playable indie character in this Smash game.

 

[ProfPeanut]

Yes but it's still an indie title just like Shovel Knight, Shantae, Gunvolt, and Cave Story. Personally I don't think we'll be seeing a playable indie character in this Smash game.

On the contrary, I think this is as good as it gets for an indie to get into into Smash. The hype is high, the major third-parties are already represented, and everyone has been told to expect the unexpected.

The only problem, I suppose, is that since almost all indies are Western titles, it'd be awkward for one of them to get into Smash before a more celebrated Western icon such as Doomguy or Banjo. On the other hand, there's still four fighters to go.

 

[staindgrey]

I really think “Jane” is Jill Valentine now. Her default costume will be the outfit from the original Resident Evil. While her alt costume (which is what “Jane” was labeled as) will be either from Resident Evil 5 or Revelations.

View attachment 209407

I like you.

 

[Ultomato]

Sooo....
With the Mii-costume-theory, I'm convinced we're getting another Capcom rep.
In my eyes, the best character would be Amaterasu, while the most likely would be either a Resident Evil rep or Pheonix Wright.

Personally, I think Phoenix would be the most likely, looking at his history with Nintendo.

Now obviously, Costume-Theory implies a Square rep (Erdrick) and a Namco rep.
For the Namco rep, I have a theory. As most people know, Bandai Namco was supposedly the original partner of Nintendo in developing Metroid Prime 4. Sylux, not hindered by the requirement of new Spirits since MP4 would bring those, is still is a strange omission from the spirit board. In my eyes, he is still a lock for DLC and he'd probably function as a "Namco rep" in that his inclusion would bring the missing Namco Mii costumes.

Either that or he'd come as a spirit alongside the real Namco rep but please Sakurai give me Sylux!

 

[Ornl]

Nintendo DREAM and Undertale
Nintendo DREAM is a Nintendo video game magazine published in Japan. There are pages about Mario, Zelda, Kirby, Fire Emblem, Mother, Pokemon + Capcom + Sega + Konami + Bamco + Marvelous + Level 5, and the musical articles use elements from Daigassō! Band Brothers (the game with Barbara the Bat). In the magazine, there are polls about most popular video game characters.
The poll from the October 2018 announces Sans 2sd, Papyrus 5th, Mettaton 8th, Undyne 9th, Frisk 15th, Toriel 17th, Flowey 18th.
**** >1/3 of the characters in this poll are characters from Undertale. ****
The poll from the March 2019 announces Sans 8th, Mettaton 13th, Papyrus 17th and Frisk 19th.
**** 1/5 of the characters in this poll are characters from Undertale. ****
Only them are from a third-party license (even if at other times there is Sonic). Because Nintendo DREAM carries the spotlight on Undertale. It's especially clear with this cover :

 

[TheCJBrine]

I'm not sure Undertale is very likely, but it does seem to be favored by Nintendo since they show it in normal directs instead of Nindies.

Also, I'd love Sans & Papyrus or Frisk/Chara in Smash.

 

[thisjustin2001]

If Sans gets in, I'll be ecstatic. That would be the most hype reveal since Sonic in Brawl for me. Idk about Brave specifically being an Undertale character, but I think an Undertale character isn't as unlikely as some think.

 

[SpectreJordan]

I think Frisk would be the best choice. Ideally he would be based off of the Pacifist route & summon his friends (the 6 characters who help you out in the Pacifist final battle).

That would perfectly represent Undertale’s message of friendship/family. I think it’d also be a great way to represent the various sections of the game as well; the opening in the cave with Toriel, Papyrus/Sans trying to trap you, Undyne hunting you down, Dr Alphys helping you out & the fight with Asgore.

Undertale’s characters also play a huge part in its success, so it’d make sense to get as many of them involved with the gameplay as possible.

With how popular Undertale is, I honestly think it could happen. It’d be a choice that pleases tons of people in Japan & America, as well as being super shocking much like Joker.

I’m a bit biased but I think Undertale absolutely deserves a spot too. The game is absolutely amazing, when I beat it I felt I had experienced something truly special.

 

[Door Key Pig]

I think it'd be pretty unjust to get a Western Indie character before a regular Western gaming icon (tho we did get the former as an assist before the latter...) Hell, getting one of the latter might not happen, but it would go well with the surprise factor this DLC is gonna have.

My current DLC Fighter Pass 1 prediction:

Long version:

Spoiler

Challenger Pack 1: Joker + Mementos (April 2019)
Well of course, this is all confirmed (and amazing).

Challenger Pack 2: Erdrick + Alefgard (June 2019)
Maybe I don't WANT to believe in it... I really hope Slime is in. And it is still possible I guess because of the slippery running animation. But I think Erdrick is up next, and he will be announced as the first character in Nintendo's E3 thingy, and is playable right after the E3 presentation.

Challenger Pack 3: Banjo & Kazooie + Gruntilda's Lair (August / September 2019)
Just teased at E3 just like Joker. Later, in late August/early September, Banjo & Kazooie will get a full video presentation like Joker did. The 5.0 update will bring back Home Run Contest and some other neat tidbits.

Challenger Pack 4: Tibby + Rhythm Remix (November 2019)
This is my biggest stretch. It is just weird how under-represented the Rhythm Heaven series is for such a big Nintendo series. One combining character, Tibby, with as alts his friends (for instance alts based on Betty, Bertram and Phillip). He uses Rhythm-based attacks, something Sakurai needs to experiment with. Ever since Smash 4 he had this in his head (series icon for Rhythm Heaven was found) and maybe now is the time, because he has to work on less different things than making a whole new game. Nobody can deny that Rhythm Heaven is Nintendo's current biggest series without a rep, or even an Assist Trophy.

Challenger Pack 5: Crash +_Gone Tomorrow (January / February 2020)
Confirmed during or around the Game Awards 2020 is the last character for Smash Ultimate: Crash. Representing another new Third Party, Activision, Crash can bring a unique character, who fits right in Smash. Crash brings the legendariness of the characters in Smash to a whole new level. Now, the fight between Mario, Banjo & Kazooie and Crash is possible, which is an equivalent to a fight between Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony. Sakurai loves to think about these kind of matchups, that's why I think Crash is extremely likely. The stage is kind of biased. I would love to see this environment in Smash.

Short version:
Pack 1: Joker + Mementos (April 2019)
Pack 2: Erdrick + Alefgard (June 2019)
Pack 3: Banjo & Kazooie + Gruntilda's Lair (August / September 2019)
Pack 4: Tibby + Rhythm Remix (November 2019)
Pack 5: Crash + Gone Tomorrow (January / February 2020)

What do you guys think? And would you buy this pass?

This is the best timeline right here. If I got BOTH of my most wanted characters in the DLC, I'd truly never ask Sakurai for anything ever again, and it'd truly be Smash ULTIMATE to me.

 

[GoodGrief741]

My current DLC Fighter Pass 1 prediction:

Long version:

Spoiler

Challenger Pack 1: Joker + Mementos (April 2019)
Well of course, this is all confirmed (and amazing).

Challenger Pack 2: Erdrick + Alefgard (June 2019)
Maybe I don't WANT to believe in it... I really hope Slime is in. And it is still possible I guess because of the slippery running animation. But I think Erdrick is up next, and he will be announced as the first character in Nintendo's E3 thingy, and is playable right after the E3 presentation.

Challenger Pack 3: Banjo & Kazooie + Gruntilda's Lair (August / September 2019)
Just teased at E3 just like Joker. Later, in late August/early September, Banjo & Kazooie will get a full video presentation like Joker did. The 5.0 update will bring back Home Run Contest and some other neat tidbits.

Challenger Pack 4: Tibby + Rhythm Remix (November 2019)
This is my biggest stretch. It is just weird how under-represented the Rhythm Heaven series is for such a big Nintendo series. One combining character, Tibby, with as alts his friends (for instance alts based on Betty, Bertram and Phillip). He uses Rhythm-based attacks, something Sakurai needs to experiment with. Ever since Smash 4 he had this in his head (series icon for Rhythm Heaven was found) and maybe now is the time, because he has to work on less different things than making a whole new game. Nobody can deny that Rhythm Heaven is Nintendo's current biggest series without a rep, or even an Assist Trophy.

Challenger Pack 5: Crash +_Gone Tomorrow (January / February 2020)
Confirmed during or around the Game Awards 2020 is the last character for Smash Ultimate: Crash. Representing another new Third Party, Activision, Crash can bring a unique character, who fits right in Smash. Crash brings the legendariness of the characters in Smash to a whole new level. Now, the fight between Mario, Banjo & Kazooie and Crash is possible, which is an equivalent to a fight between Nintendo, Microsoft and Sony. Sakurai loves to think about these kind of matchups, that's why I think Crash is extremely likely. The stage is kind of biased. I would love to see this environment in Smash.

Short version:
Pack 1: Joker + Mementos (April 2019)
Pack 2: Erdrick + Alefgard (June 2019)
Pack 3: Banjo & Kazooie + Gruntilda's Lair (August / September 2019)
Pack 4: Tibby + Rhythm Remix (November 2019)
Pack 5: Crash + Gone Tomorrow (January / February 2020)

What do you guys think? And would you buy this pass?

I don't think there's a chance that Nintendo would try to sell Rhythm Heaven DLC, it's just too niche. Even if they did, I would expect a more popular pick with the Smash fandom like Chorus Kids or Karate Joe.

Still, if you told me this will be the Fighter Pass I'd buy it right now.

A new Capcom rep
Joker arrived with the Mii Costumes of Tails and Knuckles. It's missing is the two Sega Costumes from Virtua Fighter, but Akira Wig has become an Assist Trophy. There are other Mii Costumes that haven't been renewed. Among them :
- Squenix : Chocobo hat, Geno,
- Bamco : Gil, Heihachi, Lloyd,
- Capcom : Hunter, Rathalos, MegaMan.EXE, Proto Man, X, Zero.
Monster Hunter and Zero have an evolution in Assit Trophy. The absence of the other Costumes from Mega Man could suggest that they will reappear with a new Capcom Fighter.

The problem of Resident Evil
According to Reggie, "Mr. Sakurai and the team are taking care of the DLC. He wants characters that are unique, different, to bring them into the Smash Bros. environment. That's been the approach, that's the thinking". How Resident Evil could give a different level of fun and enjoyment for the player ? This question challenges a significant amount of predictions, but particularly the characters whose gameplay only is based on swords or firearms.

There's like 3 characters that use firearms, it's not hard at all to conceive another different moveset.

On the contrary, I think this is as good as it gets for an indie to get into into Smash. The hype is high, the major third-parties are already represented, and everyone has been told to expect the unexpected.

The only problem, I suppose, is that since almost all indies are Western titles, it'd be awkward for one of them to get into Smash before a more celebrated Western icon such as Doomguy or Banjo. On the other hand, there's still four fighters to go.

How are the major third parties already represented?

 

[Ornl]

There's like 3 characters that use firearms, it's not hard at all to conceive another different moveset.

Predicting unique and different gameplay is a difficult exercise for me. I would be interested to read gameplay proposals for any Resident Evil rep, Tracer, Doomguy and Master Chief.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Predicting unique and different gameplay is a difficult exercise for me. I would be interested to read gameplay proposals for any Resident Evil rep, Tracer, Doomguy and Master Chief.

I'm sure there's plenty in their threads. For the Resident Evil guys you can also look at their appearances in Marvel vs. Capcom 2, 3 and Infinite.

Honestly, I struggle to think how those characters would play similarly to any other character in the game.

 

[DutchPichu]

I don't think there's a chance that Nintendo would try to sell Rhythm Heaven DLC, it's just too niche. Even if they did, I would expect a more popular pick with the Smash fandom like Chorus Kids or Karate Joe.

Still, if you told me this will be the Fighter Pass I'd buy it right now.

There's like 3 characters that use firearms, it's not hard at all to conceive another different moveset.

How are the major third parties already represented?

Well, maybe not Rhythm Heaven but I do believe we get an obscure pick because the fighters pass can lead to a lot of people still playing this character, and hyping the character up on the internet. We don’t know how many people bought the fighters pass, but I certainly think it’s a lot and that may lead to an out of the blue obscure name.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Well, maybe not Rhythm Heaven but I do believe we get an obscure pick because the fighters pass can lead to a lot of people still playing this character, and hyping the character up on the internet. We don’t know how many people bought the fighters pass, but I certainly think it’s a lot and that may lead to an out of the blue obscure name.

The thing is, they also want to get the money from the people that didn't buy the Fighter Pass. I'm not sure that many people would individually buy a character from a series they don't know.

 

[Ornl]

I'm sure there's plenty in their threads. For the Resident Evil guys you can also look at their appearances in Marvel vs. Capcom 2, 3 and Infinite.

Honestly, I struggle to think how those characters would play similarly to any other character in the game.

I didn't say that Resident Evil rep, Tracer, Doomguy and Master Chief couldn't have different gameplay of Snake, Bayonetta or Joker. I say that I don't see how these characters could do something else than move, shoot, and push the opponent to close combat. What would be the specificities of each ?

 

[osby]

I didn't say that Resident Evil rep, Tracer, Doomguy and Master Chief couldn't have different gameplay of Snake, Bayonetta or Joker. I say that I don't see how these characters could do something else than move, shoot, and push the opponent to close combat. What would be the specificities of each ?

All of them have their support threads and their own wikipedia entries. Maybe you should do your own research instead of waiting for people to deliver you full moveset ideas.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I didn't say that Resident Evil rep, Tracer, Doomguy and Master Chief couldn't have different gameplay of Snake, Bayonetta or Joker. I say that I don't see how these characters could do something else than move, shoot, and push the opponent to close combat. What would be the specificities of each ?

Without meaning to go in-depth (as all of those characters have threads that would definitely appreciate you popping by to ask about their character), Tracer can warp back in time, Master Chief has an energy sword, Doomguy has many unique weapons and violent moves that could be command grabs, and Resident Evil protagonists could use zombies, healing, and other items from their games depending on which character you're talking about (hell, Jill has not one but two movesets in her Marvel vs. Capcom history).

Plus, even if all they did was shoot and push, there's still a lot you can do with that. Just look at action movies and you'll see what I mean: Jason Bourne doesn't move and shoot the same way John Wick does, and neither of them fight like the guy in Equilibrium.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I didn't say that Resident Evil rep, Tracer, Doomguy and Master Chief couldn't have different gameplay of Snake, Bayonetta or Joker. I say that I don't see how these characters could do something else than move, shoot, and push the opponent to close combat. What would be the specificities of each ?

You can generally get a feel for what a character's archetypal nuances should be by just observing how the character and its series operate. The Doom Guy for example is a character from a first person shooter, but it doesn't necessarily mean he's going to only shoot. In fact, fellow FPS character Inkling doesn't do much shooting or even long range combat compared to characters like Mega Man or Samus. You'd have to do a lot more research to figure out specific moves on a movelist, but you should be able to get a general feel of a character even without extensive knowledge of a series.

 

[Ornl]

All of them have their support threads and their own wikipedia entries. Maybe you should do your own research instead of waiting for people to deliver you full moveset ideas.

I don't know what leads you to believe that I already haven't visited these pages. I wasn't convinced, starting with the ideas about up-B. Thank you for respecting this and for not doing other hasty suppositions.

 

[Ovaltine]

You know, I'm pretty curious, and I feel like newcomer speculation is a fine enough place to discuss this, given it's related to one of the most heavily-requested and speculated newcomers in the Smash bubble (even if not in general). I've seen this for other characters, but I don't think I've seen it to the same magnitude as I have for this character.

Why do people vehemently hate Geno and his fans so much?

I would say 'hate' in this case would be defined as, "I hate him and I don't want this character in, even if it'll make some people happy, and I judge whoever likes this character and/or wants them in Smash." I wouldn't say hate as in, "I personally don't like the character or am otherwise indifferent." Hate is too strong a word for that.

I'm not saying this to point fingers, especially since I actually used to be very exasperated with Geno myself before I ended up loving the character. I'm frankly curious as to why people seem to, when they mention dislike of characters people want in Smash, especially secrete venom when it comes to Geno. Is it because of his irrelevance and side character factor? I understand that, and I completely agree that this is a problem, but why would it go as far as to that much hatred and spite? Is it bad experience with his fans? Is it because you want a different character that Geno might 'compete' with? Is it because you find him overrated?

I'm not asking this to be like, "Why would you? He's GREAT!" or for any desire to convince anyone to think otherwise. I'm honest to goodness just fascinated by the hate base he has, and I would be interested in more insight. It's kind of neat to me. Geno is easily one of the most polarizing figures in Smash speculation. The discussion this could bring up would likely be an eye-opening look into how Smash fandom behaves, and I'm such a junkie for getting into the social psychology of fandom. That said, I do recommend not passing judgment on people just because of a video game character they like, but rather, how they behave about it. I think that's the most mature way to handle that. That's about as much bias as I'm willing to dole out on the matter, though.

 

[Door Key Pig]

The thing is, they also want to get the money from the people that didn't buy the Fighter Pass. I'm not sure that many people would individually buy a character from a series they don't know.

Could you say that about some Smash 4 DLC maybe? Lucas's game has still never even been localised worldwide.

At any rate, at least one pick for the little people out of five, like a first party to go with the third parties, could still fit our Reggie-based expectations of unexpecting for the Fighter's Pass. Hell, could you have said Joker/Persona 5 was a bit of a niche outside of Japan?

They might have wanted ONE first party rep at least that brings in enough new content without being redundant (as in, not characters of existing repped series that already have lots of music and stage). In fact, wasn't part of Corrin's inclusion them wanting a 1st party fighter but not a veteran? I remember hearing that around these parts but I'm not sure if it's true.

Maybe a bit too optimistic here, but this time around RH still didn't even get Mii costumes or an assist trophy, even though the even more niche(?) Sin and Punishment guy and Custom Robo (whose copyright wasn't even renewed by Nintendo?) managed to, alongside another fan want/scrapped character Dixie getting a Mii hat. And just one game after it was seriously going to have fighter-levels of representation for the franchise that remained in the trophies, music and Smash Run enemy, too. It's strange, at least.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't know what leads you to believe that I already haven't visited these pages. I wasn't convinced, starting with the ideas about up-B. Thank you for respecting this and for not doing other hasty suppositions.

I mean...There are only so many ways a character can go up, and most character's movesets don't revolve around their Up Special anyway. To be completely honest, a character's special moveset doesn't really indicate how unique a character will be without the context of their normal moveset unless their special attacks take over the character's playstyle (cough Simon & Richter cough cough).

I've seen this for other characters, but I don't think I've seen it to the same magnitude as I have for this character.

Why do people vehemently hate Geno and his fans so much?

Clearly you haven't seen the toxisity that was the Ridley debate.

To be honest I think it's just that a character's popularity makes the out crowd view it as a threat.

 

[Megadoomer]

Why do people vehemently hate Geno and his fans so much?

I would say 'hate' in this case would be defined as, "I hate him and I don't want this character in, even if it'll make some people happy, and I judge whoever likes this character and/or wants them in Smash." I wouldn't say hate as in, "I personally don't like the character or am otherwise indifferent." Hate is too strong a word for that.

I assume that it's because he's popular, and with DLC spots so limited, people are going to dislike anyone who threatens the chances of characters that they want getting in. The fanbases of Ridley and K. Rool had similar problems, given how long-lasting their popularity was and how they were dismissed for reasons like "being too big" or "not being relevant enough". I could be wrong, though; I don't actively seek out posts of that nature.

 

[Ovaltine]

Clearly you haven't seen the toxisity that was the Ridley debate.

Well, I campaigned for K. Rool, so... I mean. It's not like that kind of thing is totally unknown to me, haha. That said, crazy as it probably sounds, it seems worse towards Geno and his fans than it ever was with K. Rool. I know some people have issues with the fan base, though, and I can get that. We've got some bad apples. I won't lie about that. We ain't all bad, though. Some of us, we chill.

 

[Deleted member]

You know, I'm pretty curious, and I feel like newcomer speculation is a fine enough place to discuss this, given it's related to one of the most heavily-requested and speculated newcomers in the Smash bubble (even if not in general). I've seen this for other characters, but I don't think I've seen it to the same magnitude as I have for this character.

Why do people vehemently hate Geno and his fans so much?

I would say 'hate' in this case would be defined as, "I hate him and I don't want this character in, even if it'll make some people happy, and I judge whoever likes this character and/or wants them in Smash." I wouldn't say hate as in, "I personally don't like the character or am otherwise indifferent." Hate is too strong a word for that.

I'm not saying this to point fingers, especially since I actually used to be very exasperated with Geno myself before I ended up loving the character. I'm frankly curious as to why people seem to, when they mention dislike of characters people want in Smash, especially secrete venom when it comes to Geno. Is it because of his irrelevance and side character factor? I understand that, and I completely agree that this is a problem, but why would it go as far as to that much hatred and spite? Is it bad experience with his fans? Is it because you want a different character that Geno might 'compete' with? Is it because you find him overrated?

I'm not asking this to be like, "Why would you? He's GREAT!" or for any desire to convince anyone to think otherwise. I'm honest to goodness just fascinated by the hate base he has, and I would be interested in more insight. It's kind of neat to me. Geno is easily one of the most polarizing figures in Smash speculation. The discussion this could bring up would likely be an eye-opening look into how Smash fandom behaves, and I'm such a junkie for getting into the social psychology of fandom. That said, I do recommend not passing judgment on people just because of a video game character they like, but rather, how they behave about it. I think that's the most mature way to handle that. That's about as much bias as I'm willing to dole out on the matter, though.

Every character has some kind of hate attached to them, sadly. Either by disinterest, the implications of the character being in meaning it hinders another or just plain trolling. I can't say if its normal since while I have been playing Smash Bros for almost 20 years, I just started paying attention to the speculation part of it.

While I don't support Geno inclusion, I wouldn't mind him playable. For me, the only issue I have against characters, its not really the characters themselves but rather the fanbases that surround them many times as they are quite off putting. TBH, a few members of the Geno fanbase made me kinda annoyed of him, especially when I lurk sometimes in the Geno thread and see some regular members routinely downplaying other SE series especially ones that I support like DQ. Not to mention that the start of the SE thread, which was what made me join the forums, was a continuous ****ting on one of my favorite series with a lot of disinformation and reaching. And this is a process that was primarily done by other SE fanbases, due to seeing the series as a threat to their picks otherwise they threat smaller fanbases like they don't exist. The current environment just feels like a continuous cycle of ****ting on things that seem unlikely.

 

[Ovaltine]

Every character has some kind of hate attached to them, sadly. Either by disinterest, the implications of the character being in meaning it hinders another or just plain trolling. I can't say if its normal since while I have been playing Smash Bros for almost 20 years, I just started paying attention to the speculation part of it.

While I don't support Geno inclusion, I wouldn't mind him playable. For me, the only issue I have against characters, its not really the characters themselves but rather the fanbases that surround them many times as they are quite off putting. TBH, a few members of the Geno fanbase made me kinda annoyed of him, especially when I lurk sometimes in the Geno thread and see some regular members routinely downplaying other SE series especially ones that I support like DQ. Not to mention that the start of the SE thread, which was what made me join the forums, was a continuous ****ting on one of my favorite series with a lot of disinformation and reaching. And this is a process that was primarily done by other SE fanbases, due to seeing the series as a threat to their picks otherwise they threat smaller fanbases like they don't exist. The current environment just feels like a continuous cycle of ****ting on things that seem unlikely.

God, I'm with you there. I love Geno and I've met some great Geno fans, but I don't agree with trashing SE's other properties just because they 'aren't Geno'. DQ is huge in the east, and while it may not be nearly as big in the west, it still has a presence. I will always stand by DQ being way overdue for Smash, and I think it's finally its time to shine. People should be more open-minded. I was hesitant, admittedly, but now I'm on-board the Erdrick train. Little guy's adorable, and his female alt is a cutie-patootie.

I'm really sorry about the fans who behave so out-of-line, though. As one of the more prominent Geno fans, I sincerely apologize on behalf of the fandom. It's unnecessary and only further breeds bad blood.

 

[thisjustin2001]

I think Frisk would be the best choice. Ideally he would be based off of the Pacifist route & summon his friends (the 6 characters who help you out in the Pacifist final battle).

That would perfectly represent Undertale’s message of friendship/family. I think it’d also be a great way to represent the various sections of the game as well; the opening in the cave with Toriel, Papyrus/Sans trying to trap you, Undyne hunting you down, Dr Alphys helping you out & the fight with Asgore.

Undertale’s characters also play a huge part in its success, so it’d make sense to get as many of them involved with the gameplay as possible.

With how popular Undertale is, I honestly think it could happen. It’d be a choice that pleases tons of people in Japan & America, as well as being super shocking much like Joker.

I’m a bit biased but I think Undertale absolutely deserves a spot too. The game is absolutely amazing, when I beat it I felt I had experienced something truly special.

Why couldn't Sans be the playable character? He's the most wanted Undertale character, the face of the series and has appeared in Deltarune, which Frisk is not in. Then the rest of the characters could be apart of the Undertale stage and/or be Mii costumes! I feel this solution is a win-win, because the fans get the Undertale character they want, Nintendo/Toby Fox get more money from sales using a more marketable character and the rest of the cast get represented through the stage and Mii costumes!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Could you say that about some Smash 4 DLC maybe? Lucas's game has still never even been localised worldwide.

I mean, he was a veteran with immense want to return.

Which is pretty much the main reason why. Veterans are popular as hell. Because they were already experienced by tons of players. So it's not a comparable situation. Niche characters, if they aren't veterans, are a different thing.

 

[Deleted member]

God, I'm with you there. I love Geno and I've met some great Geno fans, but I don't agree with trashing SE's other properties just because they 'aren't Geno'. DQ is huge in the east, and while it may not be nearly as big in the west, it still has a presence. I will always stand by DQ being way overdue for Smash, and I think it's finally its time to shine. People should be more open-minded. I was hesitant, admittedly, but now I'm on-board the Erdrick train. Little guy's adorable, and his female alt is a cutie-patootie.

I'm really sorry about the fans who behave so out-of-line, though. As one of the more prominent Geno fans, I sincerely apologize on behalf of the fandom. It's unnecessary and only further breeds bad blood.

The sad reality is that every fanbase is gonna have their vocal douchebags. The best any of us can do is ignore them, and know that they almost always are a vocal minority.
But, your efforts to make your fanbase a more positive place I do think are great, plus I find efforts focused on bringing a character up much more convincing than efforts to bring others down.

 

[Deleted member]

Joker's Fighter Pack came with 11 spirits for the DLC spirit board, which is a fairly decent amount of spirits to come with.

What I wonder for the Fighter Pass is which franchise could end up having the most spirits on their Fighter Pack? I think it's possible that there could be a Fighter Pack that comes with over 30+ spirits, though chances are they're from a fighting game or a Musou/Warriors game.

 

[ProfPeanut]

I have to agree that most of the bad sentiment against Geno comes from his most vocal fans acting like he's better than most other candidates. Dude is a one-time party member of an ancient RPG that not everyone played; he's no Doomguy in the world of video game influence. And yet Geno's fans are still at it up to now, talking down bigger Square Enix franchises of all things.

Fact of the matter is, Geno has outlived a ton of contemporaries throughout the speculation seasons (Mallow, Vaati, Masked Kid, Blaziken or Grovyle, most Zelda one-shots), characters that for all appearances had as much of a chance of getting into Smash at the time as he did. And it's pretty annoying the vocal parts of the Geno base only seem to take this as proof of their assumed endurance, and not the demonstrated example of transcience that it is.

Why couldn't Sans be the playable character? He's the most wanted Undertale character, the face of the series and has appeared in Deltarune, which Frisk is not in. Then the rest of the characters could be apart of the Undertale stage and/or be Mii costumes! I feel this solution is a win-win, because the fans get the Undertale character they want, Nintendo/Toby Fox get more money from sales using a more marketable character and the rest of the cast get represented through the stage and Mii costumes!

Short answer: Toby Fox. Sans is someone designed to be more than he seems, an deliberate mystery that constantly trolls everyone who wants to know more. Having him drop that facade in a display of boss mechanics would be both uncharacteristic and a poor representation of him to officially immortalize. I don't believe Toby Fox would ever allow one of his better characters to be butchered like that on official media, especially when Sakurai is so respectful of third-party input when borrowing characters.

There's ways around that, though, but they've all got their issues. You could try to make a set that only shows Neutral/Pacifist Sans, but you'd be starved for material, and his lazybones personality wouldn't mesh with a fighting game on its own. You could get anyone else from Undertale instead, but it's undeniable that Sans would create the most headlines, which is what got Cloud into the game over all other Final Fantasy candidates. You could try to put him in the background of another set (for example, a playable Papyrus), but you wouldn't really be playing as Sans then, would you?

 

[Perkilator]

Hey, just a friendly reminder; we can’t go through this whole cycle expecting nothing but 3rd parties. They generate hype, for sure, but so do Nintendo characters. My main point is that Smash is still heavily a franchise focused on Nintendo characters. If you don’t get that 3rd party character you’ve always wanted, you’ll get them eventually if the planets align in your favor.

 

[Ovaltine]

I have to agree that most of the bad sentiment against Geno comes from his most vocal fans acting like he's better than most other candidates. Dude is a one-time party member of an ancient RPG that not everyone played; he's no Doomguy in the world of video game influence. And yet Geno's fans are still at it up to now, talking down bigger Square Enix franchises of all things.

Fact of the matter is, Geno has outlived a ton of contemporaries throughout the speculation seasons (Mallow, Vaati, Masked Kid, Blaziken or Grovyle, most Zelda one-shots), characters that for all appearances had as much of a chance of getting into Smash at the time as he did. And it's pretty annoying the vocal parts of the Geno base only seem to take this as proof of their assumed endurance, and not the demonstrated example of transcience that it is.

God, no, he is definitely not any better or more deserving than any other character, haha. Like any character, whether he's a good character or not is subjective, and in terms of 'deserving', all he really has is fan demand and little else.

When it comes to endurance, I would argue that he does have an enduring fan base that has loved him for years, but... support did falter a LOT with Sm4sh. It's definitely more fleeting than not, unfortunately. He does have fans and SMRPG has endurance beyond Smash speculation (which, honestly, I think he should be championed for a new Mario RPG rather than and before Smash), but in terms of Smash... how solid is it? It could also be argued that support died down a lot because many felt Geno had no chance in Sm4sh, but I believe in loving a character and supporting them, no matter the chances. Does it mean they should shoot down other candidates and fall into delusions of grandeur for their character? Heavens, no. Dedication isn't a problem, though, if it's to a healthy extent that only benefits rather than hurting.

Ridley's fan base is definitely more of what I'd call enduring, though. Holy MOLY, was it enduring, and it paid off.

 

[TheCJBrine]

I fear that Toby Fox may not let one of his characters in Smash, tbh, as I remember it being said that he doesn't want Undertale to become like a big franchise.

If this is true, however...it is Super Smash Bros., so if Sakurai wanted a character from his game, Toby may still be happy and allow it...

I personally think a playable Papyrus, with Sans off to the side (like Pokemon Trainer) and helping Papyrus with his attacks or just cheering for him would be perfect. When Papyrus has high damage, Sans could boost his attacks - not because Papyrus may die (it is just a sport and not lethal fighting, after all), but because he wants to help his brother win. Maybe Sans could add some attacks of his own in their Final Smash, even if they're just bones like Papyrus's attacks, and he could annoy Papyrus in a taunt.

Of course, Frisk / Chara could be perfect as well and could better show what Undertale is about, I just like these wacky skelebros.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Hey, just a friendly reminder; we can’t go through this whole cycle expecting nothing but 3rd parties. They generate hype, for sure, but so do Nintendo characters. My main point is that Smash is still heavily a franchise focused on Nintendo characters. If you don’t get that 3rd party character you’ve always wanted, you’ll get them eventually if the planets align in your favor.

I certainly agree that Nintendo characters are hype, but I don't think Nintendo themselves know that.

 

[thisjustin2001]

Well, I guess it would be okay if we got an Undertale rep that wasn't Sans, as long as we get that sweet, sweet Undertale/Deltarune music in Smash. In a hypothetical scenario where we do see an Undertale character in Smash, what would the 10-12 songs be that are included in the music pack? Also, which 3 songs would be the rearrangements?

My picks would be Heartache, Snowy (New arrangement), Bonetrousle, Dating Song Medley (New arrangement), sans/Dogsong/Temmie Village Medley (New arrangement), Dummy!, Spear of Justice, Spider Dance, Death By Glamour, ASGORE, Hopes and Dreams, Megalovania and Your Best Nightmare.

EDIT: Ah, man. I completely forgot about Battle Against a True Hero and including songs like Rude Buster, Checker Dance, Chaos King and WORLD REVOLVING from Deltarune. There's too much good music from Undertale/Deltarune to only make a 12 song playlist out of, haha.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

Honest predictions going forward:

Erdrick
Banjo
Lloyd
Jill

This follows both the pillars theory and the Mii Costume theory.

 

[Sari]

Honest predictions going forward:

Erdrick
Banjo
Lloyd
Jill

This follows both the pillars theory and the Mii Costume theory.

I'm OOTL, what is the pillars theory?

 

[Cap'n Jack]

I'm OOTL, what is the pillars theory?

Pillars theory is based around all DLC in the fighters pass coming with a unique character (non-echo), bring a new stage, new music, and new spirits. This eliminates most first-parties and third-parties that already have a spirit representing their franchise