Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Deleted member]

As much as I'm casting serious doubt on well,

Everything right now


It's like


"No Bamco."

"Okay but that means no KOS-MOS?"

"Wait KOS-MOS is Bamco oh ****?!"


It feels like he back tracked real odd there.

Feels weird due to the fact that even I kinda consider her not too well known, yet has good merit.

 

[BlackInk]

So we have clock tower leaks?

 

[perfectchaos83]

after years of demand. reimu was barely talked about until a couple of months ago.

That's kind of my point. Very few wanted Joker. Very few wanted Hero. Very few wanted Terry. Who gets in smash isn't really a matter of demand, outside of one or two bones a game.

 

[ES. Dinah]

So we have clock tower leaks?

if you trust that tripcode anon that said Sabi is going to be wrong about their statement, sure. We have nothing else... just gotta wait it out until TGA.

 

[Koopaul]

Last year we had the Grinch.
This year it's TGA.
Will the 'leak cycle' repeat every year until the roster is complete?

I kind of have a feeling 2020 will be the last year of DLC.

 

[Ayumi Tachibana]

I like how KOS-MOS yields so much CHAOS in the speculation scene

 

[SKX31]

Joker, Terry, Hero


Our wants are basically just that, our wants. Look at characters like Isaac or Geno.


Sometime we get thrown a bone, like Ridley, Banjo or K.Rool, but if this DLC selection hasn't proven that Sakurai does what he wants, nothing will.

Don't forget Furukawa. I'm pretty sure he also saw a lot of benefits with those three you mentioned:

: GotY contender, identifiable by its style alone (to the point its SMS background got converted into a real app) and ATLUS' highest point so far as a studio. Strenghens relationship with SEGA as a bonus.
: Almost a religion in Japan as early as 1988 and a major league presence whether on Nintendo or Playstation consoles. ABC News even talked about DQ3's Japanese release in their "Nuts for Nintendo" special back in 1988. Also solidifies relationship with S-E.
: Not only influenced Smash (and not only Sakurai's favorite), but also a very long-lasting franchise. While its popularity and longlevity is partly attributed to bootlegs and piracy (especially in LatAm and China), the influence in China is as such that a Chinese joint venture bought out SNK. Not only rewards SNK; I also suspect Tencent was indirectly involved with the talks.

 

[MissingGlitch]

I like how KOS-MOS yields so much CHAOS in the speculation scene

I find that pretty interesting. What is it about KOS-MOS that causes all these issues in the smash community?

Besides the "ew anime" response which I'm sure plays a major part.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I kind of have a feeling 2020 will be the last year of DLC.

I feel like we'll keep getting Ultimate DLC until development on Smash 6 begins. And 2020 is a bit early for that I think.

 

[Koopaul]

I feel like we'll keep getting Ultimate DLC until development on Smash 6 begins. And 2020 is a bit early for that I think.

You're joking right? He's going to be doing DLC for 5 more years?

The only reason he worked on Smash Ultimate right after Wii U DLC is because the Wii U died so early. The Switch ain't gonna die any time soon.

 

[Fenriraga]

I'd be so down for KOS-MOS. She's one of those characters who's moveset would be absolutely hype-inducing if the source material is anything to go by.

I'd love to have an excuse to play Xenosaga too. Considering Monolith has easily wormed its way into one of my favorite companies, I need to get their favorite daughter under my belt.

Have to wait and see, though!

 

[TheYungLink]

Many months back I stopped posting in the Ultimate Social Thread because it moved too fast for me to keep up with even with my "skip to the latest two pages to see what the recent topics were" trick, and just hung around here from then on. Which is a shame because there are many users on this site I enjoy talking to that congregate there more often than anywhere else on the site.

Well, today I spent 7 hours with breaks catching up on everything here. This week has been a chaotic **** show, but, if nothing else, it's been a fascinating and entertaining one. Hopefully things slow down a bit after an announcement at TGA, not that it's even guaranteed.

As for Verge's kill list...man. At least with Phoenix, I'll keep believing for post Pass even if he has a lot of competition. Also, KatKit is one of my favorite users on this site so I'm sorry Kat was deconfirmed for FP5, but like with Phoenix they can still happen post Pass! Same with another one of my favorite users Cutie Gwen , Sol killed his past self and he's still alive like you said, so hopefully Sol Badguy happens someday.

Also, even though the topic is old now, I wanna do the small "post your 4 most wanted" thing:

1. Paper Mario: Forever my most wanted, literally my childhood game. I'd be okay with Geno if he made it into the game and would most likely enjoy playing as him, but if Super Mario RPG fans want to tout that game as being very special, then I feel even more confident touting Paper Mario and TTYD as special as well. My single digit childhood years are very associated with Paper Mario on the Nintendo 64, and I'm one of the few fans that prefer it to TTYD, but TTYD also defined my preteen and early teen years and I enjoyed that game immensely as well. In general, while I know the classics and both appreciate and enjoy them, I would like if we got some more characters included in Smash that were nostalgic to the people who grew up in the 2000's.
2. Ganon: I think the idea of a heavyweight who's very powerful, but also has absolutely bad mobility on their own, so they get around via a flexible teleport special is a real fun concept in Smash. Also, I think Ganon is the only "big" Zelda character not yet included as a playable character, and I think the Zelda cast in Smash should have at least one version of Ganon that doesn't derive his moveset in part from Captain Falcon even if I believe Ganondorf is one of the most fun characters in the game. I have a particular attachment to the Ganon fight from A Link to the Past because my first Zelda game was the port of the game on Game Boy Advance, and the final fight against Ganon there gave me so much trouble as a kid; the amount of trouble I had fighting Ganon there would only be matched around 5 or 6 years later as a teenager when I struggled for weeks against Ridley in Super Metroid on the Wii Virtual Console.
3. Dixie Kong: I admit, most of my support for Dixie Kong comes down to "why the hell isn't she in yet?" rather than raw fan desire. Does that technically make me a bandwagoner? Well, if it does, it doesn't matter to me because I genuinely think her absence is a pretty grave one. Dixie Kong is probably the single biggest female Nintendo protagonist with "legacy" behind her (using a classic definition of "legacy" anyway) not playable in Smash. While I think ChronoBound can be a bit accusatory toward users who want more women in Smash but leave out Dixie in their list of most wanted women, I do agree with him that Dixie is a bit overlooked in that department, at least. I 100% respect your opinion if the women you want in Smash doesn't include Dixie, but I hope you reconsider and hope / look forward to the possibility of Dixie Kong's inclusion in Smash. I think Dixie, as a semi-clone of Diddy Kong, could use her ponytail in place of several of Diddy's more acrobatic attacks, and her aerials could revolve around disjointed arcs with her ponytail rather than precise kicks like Diddy. She could have either a Peach / Daisy hover ability with her ponytail float or just generally have slower falling speed, all of which would give her a feel no other DK character in the game has: easy to pick up and play, just like her playable appearance in her debut game Donkey Kong Country 2 (I argue DK, Diddy, and K. Rool all fill specific niches that can be hard to get into, by comparison). That, and Dixie Kong is really adorable and a lot of my favorite characters in Smash are the adorable ones. She could also hopefully bring more Tropical Freeze music, as we sadly have a dearth of that besides the first level's theme and its remix of DK Island Swing. And, of course, we'd get another female character in Smash and those are always cool~
4. Phoenix Wright: After I got my previous most-wanted third-party character (The Hero, [insert the flair for the Dragon Quest III Hero that Warchamp7 still hasn't added to the site alongside the DQ4 and DQ8 Heroes]) Phoenix Wright is the next one on the list. The Ace Attorney series is one of the funniest, best-written video game series I've ever played, and I love the cast of characters to death. While Phoenix Wright doesn't have any superpowers and isn't a destined hero or chosen one, he is still a genuine paragon of goodness. A hero rising against a judicial system that stacks everything against defense attorneys and the accused, Phoenix Wright uses deduction, bluffs, and plain ol' luck to get through some of the hairiest court cases in media, all to prove his clients' innocence. If you think about Phoenix too deeply, you start crying, which is a sign of a great character. Phoenix would also be the first third-party character want of mine to get in that was super popular in the 2000s just like Paper Mario was for me, so he'd be a childhood want in that sense.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

I kind of have a feeling 2020 will be the last year of DLC.

Would genuinly surprise me if Smash would get more support after 2020. By then, most people should be fed up with the bad online and only loyal fans of potential characters would maybe return. Also, its Nintendo we are dealing with. They generally aren't interested to have games supported for years on end.

 

[Shroob]

So I got a friend I showed the supposed TGA leak to, and of all the things to take issue with, they're taking issue with the leaker saying there'd be a Nier-2 shown off at TGA.


They're very adamant that a direct sequel to Automata won't happen, and when I posed the question that "Maybe the person just doesn't know there are more Nier games and just said Nier 2 out of convenience", they didn't buy it.

 

[BlackInk]

So I got a friend I showed the supposed TGA leak to, and of all the things to take issue with, they're taking issue with the leaker saying there'd be a Nier-2 shown off at TGA.


They're very adamant that a direct sequel to Automata won't happen, and when I posed the question that "Maybe the person just doesn't know there are more Nier games and just said Nier 2 out of convenience", they didn't buy it.

 

[Shroob]

Would genuinly surprise me if Smash would get more support after 2020. By then, most people should be fed up with the bad online and only loyal fans of potential characters would maybe return. Also, its Nintendo we are dealing with. They generally aren't interested to have games supported for years on end.

I mean, Smash's DLC was apparently "Incredibly profitable", and a Wave 2 will probably still be that. I legit could see 2 more waves after FP1.

View attachment 251514

You got anything meaningful to say or?

 

[osby]

I find that pretty interesting. What is it about KOS-MOS that causes all these issues in the smash community?

Besides the "ew anime" response which I'm sure plays a major part.

She's an old niche character that isn't Smash bubble's old niche character.

 

[Polan]

Joker, Terry, Hero


Our wants are basically just that, our wants. Look at characters like Isaac or Geno.


Sometime we get thrown a bone, like Ridley, Banjo or K.Rool, but if this DLC selection hasn't proven that Sakurai does what he wants, nothing will.

sakurai does what he wants is a pretty lazy argument to use in favor of a character tbh. might as well just say " it might happen, maybe". but dunno honestly. i guess backing shovel knight back during the great ballot wars of 2015 left me pretty cynical about indie characters. the arguments by the community then was no indie character would get in because it wasn't big enough to get in. and i guess they were kind of right since we have no indie characters in still. so seeing reimu being treated as a serious contender when bigger indie characters with more demand, recognizability, nintendo backing and even sakurai's interest got sent to the graveyard is honestly kind of baffling to me, specially when the arguments for her boil down to japan bias and sakurai being sakurai.

 

[osby]

sakurai does what he wants is a pretty lazy argument to use in favor of a character tbh. might as well just say " it might happen, maybe". but dunno honestly. i guess backing shovel knight back during the great ballot wars of 2015 left me pretty cynical about indie characters. the arguments by the community then was no indie character would get in because it wasn't big enough to get in. and i guess they were kind of right since we have no indie characters in still. so seeing reimu being treated as a serious contender when bigger indie characters with more demand, recognizability, nintendo backing and even sakurai's interest got sent to the graveyard is honestly kind of baffling to me, specially when the arguments for her boil down to japan bias and sakurai being sakurai.

The thing is Touhou has both legacy and popularity on its side. You can't say that for many indies.

I don't think Reimu is likely and I'm not going to pretend she makes so much sense only because we talk about her but like. She has more going for her than just "she's Japanese".

 

[Shroob]

sakurai does what he wants is a pretty lazy argument to use in favor of a character tbh. might as well just say " it might happen, maybe". but dunno honestly. i guess backing shovel knight back during the great ballot wars of 2015 left me pretty cynical about indie characters. the arguments by the community then was no indie character would get in because it wasn't big enough to get in. and i guess they were kind of right since we have no indie characters in still. so seeing reimu being treated as a serious contender when bigger indie characters with more demand, recognizability, nintendo backing and even sakurai's interest got sent to the graveyard is honestly kind of baffling to me, specially when the arguments for her boil down to japan bias and sakurai being sakurai.

A large part of that is because Touhou has a legitimately huge online presence, arguably bigger than any single Smash fanbase, period.

It's just that, Reimu for Smash has always sounded ludicrous, so the two never really mixed.


However, you open the door and suddenly people who like Touhou-related things come in. Yeah, you're right in that Reimu has barely been talked about, but I'd argue the amount of Touhou fans online at any given time dwarf any single character-driven fanbase, it's just the two usually don't overlap.


Touhou seems super ****ing niche, and by all accounts, it is, you ask someone on the street what a Touhou is and they'll have no idea, but when I see big Smash youtubers like Alpharad putting Touhou music in as their BGM to gameplay, meaning millions of people are heaing it, even if you don't think you've ever been exposed to Touhou, you almost certainly have been at some point. It's like a virus that exists online and, one way or another, you will run into it, sometimes without even knowing.



tl;dr: Reimu's fanbase is more of a "Oh, it sounds crazy. It'd be nice but haha no way it'll happen....unless...."

They're a silent majority.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So what madness did I sleep through last night?

 

[Shroob]

So what madness did I sleep through last night?

Apparently Verg is back peddling hard on Bamco now that he heard KOS-MOS is Bamco.


Odd but ok.

 

[super88cloud]

You're joking right? He's going to be doing DLC for 5 more years?

The only reason he worked on Smash Ultimate right after Wii U DLC is because the Wii U died so early. The Switch ain't gonna die any time soon.

Or becayse it was Iwata´s last mission to Sakurai. I don´t think he´ll be doing more than five more characters. Man wants to do something else after 20 years of almost always working on the same franchise.

 

[Deleted member]

I slept for a good amount of time and nothing of particular interest transpired.

 

[Fenriraga]

She's an old niche character that isn't Smash bubble's old niche character.

This is literally the most perfect summary of this any many other character discussions, and I demand this post be engraved and hung upon the wall of Sakurai's office regardless of if KOS-MOS makes it in or not.

 

[ES. Dinah]

So I got a friend I showed the supposed TGA leak to, and of all the things to take issue with, they're taking issue with the leaker saying there'd be a Nier-2 shown off at TGA.


They're very adamant that a direct sequel to Automata won't happen, and when I posed the question that "Maybe the person just doesn't know there are more Nier games and just said Nier 2 out of convenience", they didn't buy it.

Nier 2 is not in the leak but rather from the guy claiming clock tower remaster is real but it could still show up at the game awards. We know it is in production.... so yeah there's really nothing your friend can do.

 

[Wrathful_Scythe]

I mean, Smash's DLC was apparently "Incredibly profitable", and a Wave 2 will probably still be that. I legit could see 2 more waves after FP1.

Thats the interesting thing, Nintendo could have milked Sm4sh way more than they did.
Imagine Nintendo would monetize Smash like other modern publishers do. Alternate skins for every character (Beach/summer themed, christmas themed, alternate outfits...), Fighter passes for the next 5 years or so, additional maps and music, etc. And all that stuff would be damn profitable and depending on how Nintendo would set the prices, even well received for the most part, as many players love spending money to get goodies in games.

But Nintendo is a conservative company. The internet is still something "new" that needs to be explored and the same goes for other practices, for the better or worse. And no, I'm not arguing in favor of additional monetization

 

[Shroob]

Nier 2 is not in the leak but rather from the guy claiming clock tower remaster is real but it could still show up at the game awards. We know it is in production.... so yeah there's really nothing your friend can do.

"Do"?

They just think the leak is bunk.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

So, what did I miss? What's the status on KOS-MOS?

 

[XorahnGaia]

Well, a lot of things happened while i was asleep, i'll try to give my 2 cents on some things in attempt to catch up:

1). So there was another massacre from Verge, uh?Well...I guess Phoenix's chances are dead. I got the feeling that if we get a Capcom character post-pass it'll be Dante after all the things that Itsuno said. I'll remain hopefull...but I feel like he just missed the best shot he ever had at getting in Smash.

2)So Kos-mos...like I said yesterday, i don't mind her and I think she has potential. I still have some doubt about the TGA leak, but whatever. I guess getting just 4 post-pass character isn't the best outcome, but it's better than nothing and for how Sakurai thinks about DLC it's a miracle that we're getting more stuff in the first place.

3)So tha Drunk Cat leak is dead?...Shame. I don't have much experience with the Touhou franchise, but Reimu quickly became one of my most wanted character, more so because of the music she could bring with her. Since i see that argument "Why she should succed where Shovel Knight/Shantae/Undertale have failed" has been going for a few pages, but Touhou is in a very different position than those three in regards to legacy and popularity in Japan and Asia.

If i have to be blunt, I think people overrate a little bit how SK and especially Shantae are perceived by fans outside of America. Like, from what I've heard SK never took of in Japan, and Shantae...well I don't want to rant on how Wayforward gets away with using Google Translate as an actual way to localize their games, so i'm just going to say that I don't think she could ever be consider a serious contender in Japan if her game's translation are half as bad as the ones for other European languages). And I get the frustration with how Western franchise are mistreated in Smash, but this doesn't justify being narrow minded about character you don't know and whom you don't understand the appeal (especially since I feel that a lot of younger kids could say the same about convetional Smash bubble picks like Banjo and Geno). And you don't need to post those Japanese comments about Doom Slayer, I know this kind of ignorance goes both ways, but that's the point, you should try to be better than that.

4)Yeah, I'm not touching the Fatman/Sabi drama. I just hope that Geno fans realize that it's a pretty big red flag that the guy that allegedly only cared about speculation only for speculation's sake is suddenly talking about cancelling her primary source of information just because he can't make stuff up about Geno's chances anymore.

 

[Calamitas]

Apparently Verg is back peddling hard on Bamco now that he heard KOS-MOS is Bamco.


Odd but ok.

That really doesn't describe it. It's more like that despite having previously heard from his source that Bandai-Namco is out entirely, Vergeben still asked them specifically about KOS-MOS at the request of people over at GameFAQs, to which the source only said that they're not sure. That's all it is. Vergeben himself even said that he found that kinda weird.

 

[Shroob]

Well, a lot of things happened while i was asleep, i'll try to give my 2 cents on some things in attempt to catch up:

1). So there was another massacre from Verge, uh?Well...I guess Phoenix's chances are dead. I got the feeling that if we get a Capcom character post-pass it'll be Dante after all the things that Itsuno said. I'll remain hopefull...but I feel like he just missed the best shot he ever had at getting in Smash.

2)So Kos-mos...like I said yesterday, i don't mind her and I think she has potential. I still have some doubt about the TGA leak, but whatever. I guess getting just 4 post-pass character isn't the best outcome, but it's better than nothing and for how Sakurai thinks about DLC it's a miracle that we're getting more stuff in the first place.

3)So tha Drunk Cat leak is dead?...Shame. I don't have much experience with the Touhou franchise, but Reimu quickly became one of my most wanted character, more so because of the music she could bring with her. Since i see that argument "Why she should succed where Shovel Knight/Shantae/Undertale have failed" has been going for a few pages, but Touhou is in a very different position than those three in regards to legacy and popularity in Japan and Asia.

If i have to be blunt, I think people overrate a little bit how SK and especially Shantae are perceived by fans outside of America. Like, from what I've heard SK never took of in Japan, and Shantae...well I don't want to rant on how Wayforward gets away with using Google Translate as an actual way to localize their games, so i'm just going to say that I don't think she could ever be consider a serious contender in Japan if her game's translation are half as bad as the ones for other European languages). And I get the frustration with how Western franchise are mistreated in Smash, but this doesn't justify being narrow minded about character you don't know and whom you don't understand the appeal (especially since I feel that a lot of younger kids could say the same about convetional Smash bubble picks like Banjo and Geno). And you don't need to post those Japanese comments about Doom Slayer, I know this kind of ignorance goes both ways, but that's the point, you should try to be better than that.

4)Yeah, I'm not touching the Fatman/Sabi drama. I just hope that Geno fans realize that it's a pretty big red flag that the guy that allegedly only cared about speculation only for speculation's sake is suddenly talking about cancelling her primary source of information just because he can't make stuff up about Geno's chances anymore.

I don't think it'll be JUST 4, if I make something clear.

The leak says 4 for "2020". The way it's worded sounds like they'd be doing a repeat of this pass where we get 5 characters, 4 in one year and the last that bleeds into the next. Nothing in the leak says 4 and that's it, just "4 for 2020".

 

[Will]

me when it isnt kos-mos and i get tagged 100 times for porky

 

[SKX31]

Would genuinly surprise me if Smash would get more support after 2020. By then, most people should be fed up with the bad online and only loyal fans of potential characters would maybe return. Also, its Nintendo we are dealing with. They generally aren't interested to have games supported for years on end.

I'm not completely sure if that would be the case? There are too many factors at play IMO. IIRC BOTW 2 came about because there was too much stuff the devs wanted to pack into BOTW's DLC. Of course, BOTW's devs = / = Sora Ltd. but it's not inconcievable that Nintendo has started to shift on the DLC topic.

Then there's another wildcard in the Chinese release. I've been sceptical to Smash ending its DLC during 2020 because it would possibly introduce a really weird scenario: Those who buy the official Chinese versions of Switch and Smash (when it's announced and released) only being able to download already released DLC. It's partly why I've speculated in the past that the FP could be bundled with Chinese Smash (to get around that cost in a very cost-concious region).

I'm also sure that DLC will be a part of the Chinese Switch's ecosystem because the eShop is a thing and four out of Nintendo's five Chinese third parties (NeXT Studios - owned by Tencent, Pathea - the ones behind My Life at Portia, X.D. and Coconut Island) all develop mobile / Steam titles. The fifth, OPG, also does that - but also seems to have published Sonic Forces and FFXV in China. (Direct link, Google Translate). Now, the online stuff in China will be region locked (but the cartridge slot is region-free, so expect hacks to come out by tomorrow).

The reason I'm talking about this is because Nintendo could certainly consider (or have considered) supporting Smash with DLC post-Chinese launch for one year at least. But then we need to consider Sakurai too. Just as I could see Sakurai ending things after 3-4 characters, I could see him and Nintendo agreeing to do more.

 

[Calamitas]

me when it isnt kos-mos and i get tagged 100 times for porky

View attachment 251516

You when it isn't KOS-MOS, but it isn't Porky, either:

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Well I can dig KOS-MOS as the final DLC character. Would be nice to have a third robot in the cast.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

What's the current verdict on her?

 

[Shroob]

What's the current verdict on her?

"Your guess is as good as mine."

 

[Guybrush20X6]

What's the current verdict on her?

Based of my catch-up and Papa Geno's latest video, if leaks works on a representational vote then KOS-MOS is looking like the final DLC character.

 

[BlackInk]

Honestly, it seems like Kosmos legitimately wins at this point.