Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[GoodGrief741]

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You must have really poor reading comprehension if you read a post starting with "I don't feel that..." and didn't get that it was an opinion.

 

[Ben Holt]

You must have really poor reading comprehension if you read a post starting with "I don't feel that..." and didn't get that it was an opinion.

He seemed to imply that Fortnite is factually low quality and that the opinion was that low quality games don't deserve representation in Smash.

 

[Night Gale]

A lot of Smash fans (such as myself) aren't really interested in traditional fighting games, and a good chunk of Smash players play it as a party game or are here for the sheer amount of content and fanservice it provides. Just because you play one game in a genre doesn't mean you have to like the whole genre.

Bruh, there are a ****load of very good, non traditional fighting games.

Also, as speculation for FP5 narrows down to less obvious choices, what does everyone think of a Civilization rep? It has two main series games (one of which is on the Switch) and a spinoff on Nintendo systems. Furthermore it's also pretty popular in Japan, would introduce a new demographic, and represents a mostly unrepresented genre, Strategy/4x. The series has legacy and, as the game coins itself, has stood the test of time. The only major obstacle is that most of the characters are actual historical figures, though some of their Civ incarnations have their own looks and quirks.

Gandhi nukes the competition.

 

[Idon]

>When I'm probably gonna lose the Capcom wars, but I know the people that like the character that's most likely gonna get in over the fighter I want:

 

[DarthEnderX]

Aside from Soul Fist (projectile) and Shadow Blade (uppercut), Morrigan plays nothing like Ryu.

That's all it takes to make someone a shotoclone.

what does everyone think of a Civilization rep?

Only if its Napoleon and he doubles as a hanafuda rep.

 

[Ben Holt]

That's all it takes to make someone a shotoclone.

Every character that jumps is a Mario clone.
Change my mind.
But if Morrigan gets in, we'll have to interrogate @Lesley Black Velvet until she tells us what kind of witchcraft she used to get her left field pick into Smash.

Edit: And thusly, I will use this witchcraft for good and get Earthworm Jim into Smash.

 

[GoodGrief741]

He seemed to imply that Fortnite is factually low quality and that the opinion was that low quality games don't deserve representation in Smash.

Now I know you have poor reading comprehension. I never said that Fortnite is of poor quality, and indeed I think it's a good game. What I was saying is that I don't think Fortnite became as big as it did because of its quality, but rather because of its status as a Twitch or Youtube-friendly game. I don't think it's fair to reward games for their success when that success doesn't stem from the game itself but rather outside elements; maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I feel like that taints the notion of having games looked at through their own merits instead of just looking at what's popular. It's not just Fortnite either, there are many "viral games" out there.

 

[Nquoid]

=

Now I know you have poor reading comprehension. I never said that Fortnite is of poor quality, and indeed I think it's a good game. What I was saying is that I don't think Fortnite became as big as it did because of its quality, but rather because of its status as a Twitch or Youtube-friendly game. I don't think it's fair to reward games for their success when that success doesn't stem from the game itself but rather outside elements; maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I feel like that taints the notion of having games looked at through their own merits instead of just looking at what's popular. It's not just Fortnite either, there are many "viral games" out there.

Flappy Bird 4 Smash

 

[Ben Holt]

Now I know you have poor reading comprehension. I never said that Fortnite is of poor quality, and indeed I think it's a good game. What I was saying is that I don't think Fortnite became as big as it did because of its quality, but rather because of its status as a Twitch or Youtube-friendly game. I don't think it's fair to reward games for their success when that success doesn't stem from the game itself but rather outside elements; maybe I'm old-fashioned, but I feel like that taints the notion of having games looked at through their own merits instead of just looking at what's popular. It's not just Fortnite either, there are many "viral games" out there.

Seems like a leap of logic to say that a game being popular with YouTubers is inorganic.
I just don't buy into the idea that characters like Jonesy, Steve, Tracer, or even Red from Angry Birds are any less "deserving" than someone like Crash or Doom Slayer, whom happen to be MY most wanted.
Any video game character is fair game.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I want Phoenix Wright in Smash.
I also want Morrigan in Smash.

The obvious solution...

Spoiler: spoiler-ed for size

... is to make them both playable make them the same character!

 

[Ben Holt]

Guys, I know this is random and late...

But holy ****, guys! ****ing CLOUD and BANJO are in this game! Hype!!!

Edit: Better relate this to speculation so it doesn't get tagged as spam.
These prove that there is only ONE RULE: Video Game Characters ONLY!
We can get Kratos, Angry Birds, Tetris blocks, Sora (even though I balk at the idea of him without Donald and Goofy), Earthworm Jim, or ****ing Leisure Suit Larry.

 

[super88cloud]

Sora is one of those characters that I wanted as a teenager but not anymore. Kinda sad to be honest. I am cool as long as the next character isn´t an anime swordman,pokemon rep. It´s cool if they´re bonus though.

 

[Ben Holt]

Sora is one of those characters that I wanted as a teenager but not anymore. Kinda sad to be honest. I am cool as long as the next character isn´t an anime swordman,pokemon rep. It´s cool if they´re bonus though.

Sora is such a mixed bag to me.
I know so many people want him in, but to properly represent his series, he would need Disney references, most specifically Donald and Goofy. I'm just not sure Sakurai would do that for Sora. Alternatively, I also don't see him finely cutting out all Disney references just for Sora's sake.
So my only logical conclusion is that Sora isn't coming.

 

[I.D.]

These prove that there is only ONE RULE: Video Game Characters ONLY!

Any videogame character eh?

Spoiler

 

[Ben Holt]

Any videogame character eh?

Spoiler

Unironically, yes.
Unlikely as ****aroni and cheese, but still a video game character.
By the way, look up Leisure Suit Larry. That was my joke at the end. Same concept.

 

[Lamperouge]

What stage and music would Jonesy come with, anyway?

 

[Pinguino21v]

Paper Mario's just a clone.

You want Paper Mario and, in the same time, you're expecting he will be a clone? Why do you want him? Did you play his games? Paper Mario would not be a clone at all.

I know so many people want him in, but to properly represent his series, he would need Disney references, most specifically Donald and Goofy.

Didn't we already had this conversation several pages ago, with every Sora fans and their mothers saying he wouldn't need any Disney references? Did you play his games to maintain these statements?

 

[Deleted member]

Every character that jumps is a Mario clone.
Change my mind.
But if Morrigan gets in, we'll have to interrogate @Lesley Black Velvet until she tells us what kind of witchcraft she used to get her left field pick into Smash.

Edit: And thusly, I will use this witchcraft for good and get Earthworm Jim into Smash.

All magic comes with a price.

If Morrigan does get in, something bad is gonna happen to any other aspect of my life, like my favorite music groups disbanding.

 

[Ben Holt]

Didn't we already had this conversation several pages ago, with every Sora fans and their mothers saying he wouldn't need any Disney references? Did you play his games to maintain these statements?

I'm not getting into this bull**** again.
Let us agree to disagree. I don't like the idea of Sora without Donald and Goofy, but I know some people want him regardless.
It would not bother me if Sora is playable with Disney references intact.
It also would not bother me if Sora is in Smash with NO Disney references.
And I am ultimately indifferent if Sora NEVER shows up in Smash at all.
So let's not go into another 5 page argument over Sora.
It's not my hill to die on.

 

[Night Gale]

What stage and music would Jonesy come with, anyway?

Since we have Shadow the Hedgehog in the game, the stage has to be Tilted Towers.

Here's a song.

That is fan made but here's the soundtrack.

You're welcome.

 

[BlueKirbySquad]

You want Paper Mario and, in the same time, you're expecting he will be a clone? Why do you want him? Did you play his games? Paper Mario would not be a clone at all.

I have. PM's just not unique enough to bring something new enough to the table.

We have Mario. We have the only needed flat Character - Game & Watch.

Also, I don't want him. Read my post before quoting.

 

[DrifloonEmpire]

Since we have Shadow the Hedgehog in the game, the stage has to be Tilted Towers.

He's a song.

That is fan made but here's the soundtrack.

I love just how authentic this sounds xP

 

[Ben Holt]

I have. PM's just not unique enough to bring something new enough to the table. Also, I don't want him. Read my post before quoting.

Gotta disagree HARD there, fam.
Paper Mario was my most wanted DLC newcomer for Smash (until we realized that we could more Third Parties. BTW, holy **** CLOUD is in Smash Bros.!), and I can tell you that Paper Mario and Super Mario are INCOMPARABLY DIFFERENT. You would have to FORCE a clone out of Paper Mario.

 

[BlueKirbySquad]

Gotta disagree HARD there, fam.
Paper Mario was my most wanted DLC newcomer for Smash (until we realized that we could more Third Parties. BTW, holy **** CLOUD is in Smash Bros.!), and I can tell you that Paper Mario and Super Mario are INCOMPARABLY DIFFERENT. You would have to FORCE a clone out of Paper Mario.

I respect your opinion, it's just what I personally think. Most of my PM experience is from SPM, SS and CS, and I expect the later two will be what they base his moveset on. They're too similar to Mario's moves, and what I think they'd do special wise is:

Neutral: Fire Ball
Side: Koopa Shell
Down: Hammer
Up: Paper Aeroplane
Final: Star Rod

Let's Compare these to existing fighters:

Neutral: Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario
Side: Squirtle
Down: King DDD
Up: Snake (Parachute)

Of course, every Final Smash is unique. His stats would be too similar to Game and Watch with a bit more attack and wwould be even lighter.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm not getting into this bull**** again.
Let us agree to disagree. I don't like the idea of Sora without Donald and Goofy, but I know some people want him regardless.
It would not bother me if Sora is playable with Disney references intact.
It also would not bother me if Sora is in Smash with NO Disney references.
And I am ultimately indifferent if Sora NEVER shows up in Smash at all.
So let's not go into another 5 page argument over Sora.
It's not my hill to die on.

Heh, I like your conviction, though my reception towards him is more mixed. People tend to associate Sora with Disney because much of the series is associated with Disney after all. On the plus side, it is possible to create a version of Sora that doesn't have the Disney references and still function as a character. On the minus side, it will be more of the fan reception towards him, as well as the association phenomena.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

I know this means **** all for Smash but here's something interesting

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Automata blew everyone's minds and became mainstream so we'll be able to see if this becomes a high profile series now. It could lead to a Nier character in the future

 

[Idon]

I know this means **** all for Smash but here's something interesting

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Automata blew everyone's minds and became mainstream so we'll be able to see if this becomes a high profile series now. It could lead to a Nier character in the future

Nier 1 remake please dear God. I gotta see my ugly dad in HIGH DEFINITION.

(Also combat that doesn't suck)

 

[Ben Holt]

I respect your opinion, it's just what I personally think. Most of my PM experience is from SPM, SS and CS, and I expect the later two will be what they base his moveset on. They're too similar to Mario's moves, and what I think they'd do special wise is:

Neutral: Fire Ball
Side: Koopa Shell
Down: Hammer
Up: Paper Aeroplane
Final: Star Rod

Let's Compare these to existing fighters:

Neutral: Mario, Luigi, Dr. Mario
Side: Squirtle
Down: King DDD
Up: Snake (Parachute)

Of course, every Final Smash is unique. His stats would be too similar to Game and Watch with a bit more attack and wwould be even lighter.

A lot of characters are an amalgamation of previous fighters.
Hero has Link's dash attack, Marth's Smash attacks, Mega Man's Fair, etc.
A clone is when all or almost all moves are completely derived from one other character.

Let's say that Smash modding gets to a point where you can give a model any move from any character, but ONLY moves from other characters, no new ones.
You could make A LOT of unique characters.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Nier 1 remake please dear God. I gotta see my ugly dad in HIGH DEFINITION.

(Also combat that doesn't suck)

Honestly despite never touching this franchise or Drakengard, it's so surreal yet a 'no ****' answer when it turned out that all this series needed to do in order to become succesful was have good gameplay

 

[Dust319]

Before Ryu's inclusion, we had Mario, Dr. Mario, Luigi, Megaman, and arguably Zero Suit Samus (and not long after Ryu we got Corrin) with archetypical Shoto-inspired attacks, but they're very distinctive from him, and Morrigan would be as well.

Most of which were introduced before we had Ryu on the roster, so are a moot point.

Aside from Soul Fist (projectile) and Shadow Blade (uppercut), Morrigan plays nothing like Ryu.

I never said she played like Ryu. Ken dispute having the same moves as Ryu plays nothing like Ryu

I think that your complaint is similar to the ones people made about Terry; Morrigan would bring her own style on a solid archetype and she wouldn't fight anything like Ryu. Don't get me wrong, I definitely wouldn't mind other characters, but Morrigan can still bring a lot to the table.

Terry wasn’t high on my list but Terry was clearly going to have enough differences from Ryu and Ken to stand out as a separate character. He’s from a different series with different mechanics. He doesn’t have a defacto dragon punch or fireball — rising tackle is a charge move not a DP motion, and power wave travels the ground not the air. He is more traditionally a rush down character, Ryu is more balanced and Ken favors rush down but still has Ryus basic tool kit.

That's all it takes to make someone a shotoclone.

This is basically what I’m getting at, I just wasn’t sure anyone here would know the term. If they were going to add a shoto anyway, you could do worse; you could do a lot better too.

I love Morrigan, don’t get me wrong. However, if I was a game designer looking at a short list of Capcom characters to add, it would have to be a pretty bad list for me to choose Morrigan.

 

[I.D.]

I am truly envious of Yoko Taro. Literally create nothing but objectively bad games one after another, still somehow achieve greater success than most developers ever will and also get most of the credit while PlatinumGames does the heavy lifting.

 

[TwiceEXE]

I know this means **** all for Smash but here's something interesting

There was a problem fetching the tweet

Automata blew everyone's minds and became mainstream so we'll be able to see if this becomes a high profile series now. It could lead to a Nier character in the future

I'm so excited. Nier has probably the most well told story in gaming. It really takes advantage of the medium. Also the soundtrack is amazing. Everyone knows how excellent Automata is but fewer have played the first game (and yes the combat is not good).

 

[Deleted member]

I love Morrigan, don’t get me wrong. However, if I was a game designer looking at a short list of Capcom characters to add, it would have to be a pretty bad list for me to choose Morrigan.

Coming from probably one of the biggest Morrigan supporters here, I'm pretty skeptical in regards to this. Do they pick the character who has been with Capcom crossovers since day one and hasn't been given anything, yet still manages to be a bit relevant? Or do they pick the character that has the vocal support of the fanbase, yet hasn't been with Capcom since day one?

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So did I miss anything last night?

 

[Deleted member]

So did I miss anything last night?

Eh, nothing much.

 

[BlueKirbySquad]

So did I miss anything last night?

Basically you missed me getting killed because I think Paper Mario has no chance of going into Smash.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Can you imagine a midnight bliss Pikachu?

View attachment 249557

The horror.

Remember kids, if Midnight Bliss happened in Smash, Bowsette would be canon. Crazy, huh?

I'd say that's the biggest issue that ought to be addressed within this fandom.

Even in this thread I notice a lot of close-minded speculation. Certain characters (typically those favored by users here) are focused on with near tunnel-vision and outside characters are shoved to the side or straight up denounced. I feel like if people were willing to seriously look at the many different series that have been brought up, like Tohou, Guilty Gear, Darkstalkers, Fortnite, Minecraft, Halo, Kingdom Hearts, etc. etc. etc., speculation would become more open. It'd be more about "here's why this character would be cool and here's why I think they have a chance" instead of "here's why your character doesn't have a chance and you should stop talking." I'll admit I'm a bit guilty of spreading the former myself, but I think a little effort could go a long way here.

Sakurai does it, so why can't we?

To be fair, Sora seems very popular in the Smash fandom, but he also has a lot of haters, like any character that becomes too popular.

I think as the possibilities expand, people will gravitate to crazier picks. We were talking about Gordon ******* Freeman the other day, I mean. As long as Sakurai keeps stretching the limits, we'll go there too.

I'm so excited. Nier has probably the most well told story in gaming. It really takes advantage of the medium. Also the soundtrack is amazing. Everyone knows how excellent Automata is but fewer have played the first game (and yes the combat is not good).

I remember cheesing the factory dungeon entirely in the first game just by spamming the regular "shooting" spell lol.

 

[KatKit]

Most of which were introduced before we had Ryu on the roster, so are a moot point.

The point was that it's a very common archetype; I didn't even list every character in the game that falls under that category. Sakurai isn't going to avoid it; he used it as inspiration before and after Ryu. It's a staple.

I never said she played like Ryu. Ken dispute having the same moves as Ryu plays nothing like Ryu

You said that she's the same mechanically. She's far from it. I explained why.

Terry wasn’t high on my list but Terry was clearly going to have enough differences from Ryu and Ken to stand out as a separate character. He’s from a different series with different mechanics. He doesn’t have a defacto dragon punch or fireball — rising tackle is a charge move not a DP motion

Morrigan is also from a different series with different mechanics. And unlike Ryu, she's even had simplified double crouch inputs.

and power wave travels the ground not the air. He is more traditionally a rush down character, Ryu is more balanced and Ken favors rush down but still has Ryus basic tool kit.

Morrigan is essentially an airborne-heavy anime fighter. She takes the fight to the air.

This is basically what I’m getting at, I just wasn’t sure anyone here would know the term. If they were going to add a shoto anyway, you could do worse; you could do a lot better too.

Fortunately, this is a videogame forum, so we can freely use common FGC terminology; most people here are familiar with it.

Better is subjective. Also, you can seriously name another Capcom shoto that isn't from Street Fighter as prominent as Morrigan?

I love Morrigan, don’t get me wrong. However, if I was a game designer looking at a short list of Capcom characters to add, it would have to be a pretty bad list for me to choose Morrigan.

Considering the sheer number of crossovers she's been in, the influence her series had on its genre, her highly unique take on a solid archetype, her popularity, etc. I think she'd be fairly high on a list for something like Smash. Terry was super obvious for SNK, but a lot of people here, myself included, entertained the idea that other SNK mascots might be chosen over him.

And from a game design standpoint, reusing an asset or two might save them some hassle. TBH, it seems like there's things you aren't factoring in to come to your conclusion.

In any case, I try to focus on why I think characters would be cool instead of why I think they wouldn't be in.

 

[snowgolem]

Your pfp is more cursed than mine’s.

You know it

 

[BlueKirbySquad]

You know it

Then they put that as the last Fighter's Pass character.