Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[3BitSaurus]

I am so sorry

I have many questions, but I'm not sure I want to hear the answers.

Like... what were you searching before finding this? Who woke up in the morning and thought making this was a good idea!?

Androids truly did not understand the horrors of humanity.

 

[Senatiator]

If FP5 is a Nintendo character, I think a lot of people are sleeping on Elma's chances, considering Xenoblade Chronicles X is notably missing from the basegame with maybe 3 Spirits for rep (including Elma herself) but no stage, no music, no really anything.

The lead music producer for XCX, Sawano, has a secret project he worked on last year that nobody knows what it's for yet, and Elma's VA is under NDA for a secret role that nobody knows what it's for yet either. There's reference in the Elma Xenoblade 2 DLC content about everybody "finally being together" (or something of that affect) while Shulk is also there that seems to indicate something of that nature. There's also the mysterious Vifram figure Sakurai bought to use as a character reference during development that nobody has been able to reliably match up to a character in-game but conspicuously would match up to something like Elma's Skell.

We just had GameExplain, who's Nintendo ties are quite known, post a curiously-timed video come out talking about Nintendo 1st-parties and how Spirits may not deconfirm. Everybody jumps to Waluigi, Geno and Isaac, but maybe it's referencing Elma instead?

There was talk recently that Hero was meant for basegame but held back for DLC because it would have been too expensive to pay royalties on every copy of the game because of the music, and the same situation is true for XCX, as Sony Music owns the rights to the soundtrack IIRC. But Sony also just participated in that Smash Tournament a week or two ago.

Elma also was in a prime position during SM4SH to be heavily considered for the DLC promo pick that Corrin ultimately came to be developed for. And just recently in the Elma thread, it was kind of revealed that Xenoblade Chronicles X as a series was cut from the list the same way those Rare games that were found early on were, indicating that XCX was supposed to be something and was removed for some reason.

Anybody with more knowledge (and time) please feel free to expand on and/or correct any misinformation, but otherwise, my own speculation is that with Elma's position timeline wise (XCX being released around the time of SM4SH's release so falling into the "before 2017" timeframe for being included), the Vifram figure, the secret Sawano music project, Elma's VA's NDA project, and the suspicious lack of basically anything XCX-related as well as it appearing like it was supposed to be there and then cut: Elma was intended for basegame but either cut entirely or held back for DLC like Hero because of the music royalties issue. Having her be DLC sidesteps the music royalties by only having a cut of the DLC be taken instead of the entire game. GameExplain's "spirits don't deconfirm!!1!" video is not a reference to someone like Waluigi or Isaac, but instead Elma, and while we keep getting a bunch of 3rd-parties deconfirmed, we're being left with a smaller and smaller pool to work with where a Nintendo 1st-party character seems more likely. And the supposed "Thank You Theory" (that every character in the pass was chosen because of their personal relevance to Sakurai or as a thank you to the company they originate from) also applies because Monolith Soft heavily contributed to the development of the game.

I think, if the final character is a Nintendo character, it's going to be Elma. It cannot be anybody else but Elma. The only thnigs going against her are Reggie's comments last VGA's about 'new worlds that haven't been seen' and the other characters all being 3rd-party (of which Elma, as a Nintendo character from the Xenoblade series that is currently in the game already as a Spirit, is seemingly triple-whammied by). But the GameExplain video is certainly curious nonetheless.

Sony manufactured the Xenoblade X soundtrack but they don’t own it.

Studio Trigger got music Hiroyuki Sawano composed for Kill la Kill into Space Patrol Luluco so Sawano doesn’t have a problem with his music appearing in other places.

There's Xenoblade X music in Xenoblade 2

https://www.discogs.com/Hiroyuki-Sawano-Xenoblade-X-Original-Soundtrack/release/9719740

“© by Monolith Soft and Nintendo”

2B or not 2B that is the question.

According to NieR Automata, the answer is

Spoiler

NOT 2B.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/echo-from-the-void.tumblr.com/post/175430328834/amp

 

[MooMew64]

I haven't played Nier, but 2B looks cool, so why not?

 

[Deleted member]

I am so sorry

This artist could have done an epic fan art of Eight and Samus fighting Ridley instead, wtf.

 

[I.D.]

Just to go back to speculating, everyone's favorite EX-insider fatman is saying on the Geno thread that he still thinks Fighter 5 is Namco and that Vurgerben basically doesn't know ****. Thoughts?

 

[MooMew64]

Just to go back to speculating, everyone's favorite EX-insider fatman is saying on the Geno thread that he still thinks Fighter 5 is Namco and that Vurgerben basically doesn't know ****. Thoughts?

TBH I'm much more inclined to listen to Verge, the guy who actually has a track record, VS Fatman, who as far as I know, is a random speculator who hears random stuff from Sabi's Discord.

I'm also more inclined to listen to Verge than Sabi, TBH.

 

[Hinata]

Just to go back to speculating, everyone's favorite EX-insider fatman is saying on the Geno thread that he still thinks Fighter 5 is Namco and that Vurgerben basically doesn't know ****. Thoughts?

With all due respect to Fatman, he really hasn't proven he knows anything insider-wise. He's just a member of Sabi's Discord server who reports on whatever rumors trickle down to him.

Plus, he's been leading the Geno thread on for years.

 

[RaintheCriminalWhirlwind]

Well, only a week and 4 days until the VGAs. Hopefully we get some news about the FP5 or even the next fighters pack (If they are doing that again for the second round). My hopes is seeing 2B as the 5th fighter but really, I'm down for anyone that has a cool moveset

 

[MooMew64]

From what I can tell, I'm pretty sure the Geno thread only listens to Fatman because he keeps telling them Geno is coming.

With all due respect, I don't think the Geno thread is very objective here.

 

[cmbsfm]

Just to go back to speculating, everyone's favorite EX-insider fatman is saying on the Geno thread that he still thinks Fighter 5 is Namco and that Vurgerben basically doesn't know ****. Thoughts?

I don’t think Fatman has gotten something right that is original to him.

 

[KatKit]

Before she was revealed for Soul Calibur, there was a lot of bootleg 'Not 2B' character creations online. I made one and she's in almost all of my trophy achievement screenshot things lol. After she came out, the first thing I did was make 2Bee. I colored her sleeves like flowers. If she gets in Smash, both of those pictures will be included in my 'We are all 2B on this blessed day' victory speech.

Btw... Jump Force stealing the nomination from Power Rangers Battle for the Grid is absolutely unforgivable. I haven't seen a fighter with a shoestring budget with that much love put into it since Skullgirls. It's so fun, too.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

I don’t think Fatman has gotten something right that is original to him.

Fact. I do like Fatman as a person, but at least Verge actually gets correct information.

 

[cothero]

Hold your ***** tight, my bois. Only 10 days until the VGA'S.

 

[BlackInk]

Just to go back to speculating, everyone's favorite EX-insider fatman is saying on the Geno thread that he still thinks Fighter 5 is Namco and that Vurgerben basically doesn't know ****. Thoughts?

Possible. There is just so much weird stuff with Kosmos and Namco that I think there might be a throw off. What if Vergeban has access to the wrong fighter?

 

[NurpNurp]

Before she was revealed for Soul Calibur, there was a lot of bootleg 'Not 2B' character creations online. I made one and she's in almost all of my trophy achievement screenshot things. After she came out, the first thing I did was make 2Bee. I colored her sleeves like flowers.

Btw... Jump Force stealing the nomination from Power Rangers Battle for the Grid is absolutely unforgivable. I haven't seen a fighter with a shoestring budget with that much love put into it since Skullgirls. It's so fun, too.

Is it good? I was on the fence with it but Eric Myers reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally hits me in the nostalgia bone and is tipping me towards getting it

 

[Deleted member]

Sony manufactured the Xenoblade X soundtrack but they don’t own it.

Studio Trigger got music Hiroyuki Sawano composed for Kill la Kill into Space Patrol Luluco so Sawano doesn’t have a problem with his music appearing in other places.

There's Xenoblade X music in Xenoblade 2

https://www.discogs.com/Hiroyuki-Sawano-Xenoblade-X-Original-Soundtrack/release/9719740

“© by Monolith Soft and Nintendo”

Ownership of the X soundtrack continues to confuse me. Sawano has released Uncontrollable and Don't Worry on his album, 2V-ALK, which includes some of his compositions for other media, such as Attack on Titan. I just don't know anymore. I'm sure he at least needs to be contacted regarding its use or something.

 

[MooMew64]

Hold your ***** tight, my bois. Only 10 days until the VGA'S.

While I do think TGA will have Smash news, I'm still gonna find it really funny if we don't get anything.

Never rule anything out completely, I always say,

 

[M@R!3]

Sony manufactured the Xenoblade X soundtrack but they don’t own it.

Studio Trigger got music Hiroyuki Sawano composed for Kill la Kill into Space Patrol Luluco so Sawano doesn’t have a problem with his music appearing in other places.

*Mentions Sawano's work but doesn't list Gundam Unicorn or Narrative*
That's alright, I forgive you. This time.

 

[Icedragonadam]

They're just going to only bring a new BOTW2 trailer.

Spoiler

Which will feature Cranky Kong from the Donkey Kong series.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Another user than just Fatman has also said Vergeben has just piggybacked for most of his info and that Sabi mocks him, however if it's anything significant, it seems to go against Sabi considering Vergeben's words and also saying that him pitying Vergeben isn't true (though Vergeben has had him as a source before), so eh, I'll still trust Verge's word.

Also, didn't Sabi say he'd try looking into the Namco claim?

 

[BlackInk]

Ownership of the X soundtrack continues to confuse me. Sawano has released Uncontrollable and Don't Worry on his album, 2V-ALK, which includes some of his compositions for other media, such as Attack on Titan. I just don't know anymore. I'm sure he at least needs to be contacted regarding its use or something.

Maybe the guy is allowed to sell the music he makes and the companies simply have the rights to use the music in any way.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Ownership of the X soundtrack continues to confuse me. Sawano has released Uncontrollable and Don't Worry on his album, 2V-ALK, which includes some of his compositions for other media, such as Attack on Titan. I just don't know anymore. I'm sure he at least needs to be contacted regarding its use or something.

Now that I think about it I think this royalty system is why Elma is paid DLC for Xenoblade 2 as well instead of being included from the get go like KOS-MOS (to be fair KOS-MOS didn’t come with Xenosaga music but still)

 

[Schnee117]

Is it good? I was on the fence with it but Eric Myers reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally hits me in the nostalgia bone and is tipping me towards getting it

If you like MvC2 it's an excellent choice.

 

[Garteam]

Btw... Jump Force stealing the nomination from Power Rangers Battle for the Grid is absolutely unforgivable. I haven't seen a fighter with a shoestring budget with that much love put into it since Skullgirls. It's so fun, too.

The fact Jump Force exists in the state it's in is honestly enough to get me upset. I seriously don't know how you have such a slam dunk idea for a game only to bungle it up so badly in execution. Everything from that game's roster, to its presentation, to its gameplay feels so wrong.

 

[Deleted member]

Maybe the guy is allowed to sell the music he makes and the companies simply have the rights to use the music in any way.

Entirely possible, but if true, it's even more curious that Black Tar isn't in Ultimate.

IMO even if that is the arrangement made with Sawano, it's more likely that they just didn't put any X music in because no one wanted it rather than some over complicated conspiracy. Xenoblade received no new music outside of the 3 songs from Xenoblade 2, and some series (like Punch-Out!!) got even less than that.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

They're just going to only bring a new BOTW2 trailer.

Spoiler

Which will feature Cranky Kong from the Donkey Kong series.

Nah. That would be predictable.

New Funky Mode.
BTB is now an official thing, and you get to go Silver Surfer across the sky after pulling it off.

 

[Seanapotamus]

Just to go back to speculating, everyone's favorite EX-insider fatman is saying on the Geno thread that he still thinks Fighter 5 is Namco and that Vurgerben basically doesn't know ****. Thoughts?

Fatman didn't believe Erdrick would be in Smash, so he's not very reliable. He just reports on whatever he hears from Sabi's private discord, and most of it are rumors he hears and says it on the Geno thread.

Vergeben on the other hand has been legit when it comes to Smash, including being right on the base roster. Then again, he's not always the first person to say which character is getting in, as I believe someone else said Simon would be getting in before he said it.

 

[Calamitas]

Sony manufactured the Xenoblade X soundtrack but they don’t own it.

Studio Trigger got music Hiroyuki Sawano composed for Kill la Kill into Space Patrol Luluco so Sawano doesn’t have a problem with his music appearing in other places.

There's Xenoblade X music in Xenoblade 2

https://www.discogs.com/Hiroyuki-Sawano-Xenoblade-X-Original-Soundtrack/release/9719740

“© by Monolith Soft and Nintendo”

Y'know, if someone's actually talking about Elma having a chance in this thread for once, I guess I might as well drop this summary of point in her favour that I made over half a year ago.

Spoiler

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Worth pointing out that the stuff about Caitlin Glass' NDA role and Hiroyuki Sawano's secret project still stands. Even now, we have no idea what the **** either of those is.

Now if any of y'all who are hellbend on going "Well akshually" on any of these points, could you do it without directly responding to or quoting to this post? Because I really don't care for that at this point.

 

[Deleted member]

If Elma gets in without Black Tar, it was all a complete waste of time and effort.

 

[KatKit]

Is it good? I was on the fence with it but Eric Myers reaaaaaaaaaaaaaally hits me in the nostalgia bone and is tipping me towards getting it

It's a love letter to Marvel vs. Capcom and Power Rangers; I couldn't recommend it enough to fans of either one. It's fun and easy to pick up and play, and the story mode they added was decent. You've seen Eric's trailer, right?

Even for those who aren't fans of PR, that's still really dope. It's as fun as it looks. I play with my little nephew and he loves it. It's fun for the whole family. It's very accessible but has a high skill ceiling.

It's obviously on a budget, but its strengths far outweigh its flaws, IMO. I didn't regret it and its DLC, but I would like Space or Ninja Storm content lol.

 

[I.D.]

Now if any of y'all who are hellbend on going "Well akshually" on any of these points, could you do it without directly responding to or quoting to this post? Because I really don't care for that at this point.

You don't care for discussion on the "Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion" thread? Why bother then.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

the real fighter 5 is the friends we made along the way

see look i have a picture to prove it

 

[BZocky]

I can’t believe Link was just Mario with the Master Sword powerup this whole time. Guess now there’s 5 versions of Mario in Smash.

 

[Seanapotamus]

the real fighter 5 is the friends we made along the way

see look i have a picture to prove it
View attachment 249465

Was there ever any doubt?

 

[Lamperouge]

Y'know, if someone's actually talking about Elma having a chance in this thread for once, I guess I might as well drop this summary of point in her favour that I made over half a year ago.



Worth pointing out that the stuff about Caitlin Glass' NDA role and Hiroyuki Sawano's secret project still stands. Even now, we have no idea what the **** either of those is.

Now if any of y'all who are hellbend on going "Well akshually" on any of these points, could you do it without directly responding to or quoting to this post? Because I really don't care for that at this point.

Well, actua-

Maybe you're right.

 

[NurpNurp]

the real fighter 5 is the friends we made along the way

see look i have a picture to prove it
View attachment 249465

That's it. Everyone go home. This post won speculation

 

[Deleted member]

the real fighter 5 is the friends we made along the way

see look i have a picture to prove it
View attachment 249465

Ngl, I have made a lot of friends here during this Smash speculation cycle.

Osby, Staindgrey, Noipoi, Bolderoussness, you (tehponycorn), Gwen, Shishoe, Smashing Ramen, Guh-Huzzah!, Taylor F, Nomad Luminary, Kirbyworshipper, Dyllybirdy, the list just goes on...

So yes, in the end it isn’t about who gets in... but rather about enjoying the adventure and making new friends during the wait.

 

[MooMew64]

the real fighter 5 is the friends we made along the way

see look i have a picture to prove it
View attachment 249465

Wait, we make friends in Smash speculation? I thought we made only bitter enemies, as discussion about which video game character will be able to fight the portly Italian plumber next is very weighty business.

 

[yeet123]

Any other updates?

 

[[Maple]]

Any other updates?

Nope