Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Mushroomguy12]

Okay so here's a hypothetical. Say Nintendo is developing Smash 6, and they're polling their audience on what veterans they would like back. Are you gonna vote for Mario, who is ****in Mario, or someone like Joker, who might not be such a sure shot for the game?
That's what that Soul Calibur poll was about. Nobody is going to ask to see Nightmare back when he's nigh guaranteed to be in the game regardless, so of course a character who wasn't in the previous game is going to receive more votes

Joker obviously. Why on Earth would they cut Mario?

 

[TheCJBrine]

Where did I badmouth Nightmare? I'm just showing that Talim is more popular.

I don’t understand how a small poll is absolute proof especially when Nightmare is still popular anyway, and I don’t see how that helped KOS-MOS in any way (you mentioned him not having the edge over her in the post) when people could start saying Talim instead.

Note, I’m not against KOS-MOS, I don’t even care which Namco character gets in, I’m just confused.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

It's fine to want him but I didn't turn this into a war between KOS-MOS and Nightmare so forgive me if I was arguing for KOS-MOS when the war was already happening. I dont appreciate being called out on badmouthing picks. I never do that. I love soulcalibur but I was just showing Talim is more popular. That's it.

lol sure

Just a note that Talim is much more popular than Nightmare. Nightmare didn't even place top 5 when Soulcalibur was a dead series. He definitley does not have the edge over KOS-MOS here.

 

[Will]

Honestly, the lack of characters from FPS's in smash annoys me. Do you think they'll add a character from another genre this time around? Let's discuss genres.

hack and slash

 

[ES. Dinah]

Bull-****ing-****! Get outta here with your bull****! You have used Nightmare's popularity to bolster your own damn series and I am not humoring that. You've made that clear in your original post.

Right, cause the topic was already heated and I wanted to participate. Dont call me out on stuff I didn't do. Badmouthing is saying Nightmare sucks and will never get in.

 

[BlackInk]

eh we kind of already made that point




too bad he never mentions it tho, he keeps avoiding that one

The argument is ridiculously dumb when the xeno games have their own symbols.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Okay, noob question. Who is Nightmare? The only Nightmare I know is the one from Kirby, who is obviously not who everyone's talking about

The edgelord from Soul calibur.

 

[N3ON]

Probably not since the Monado is unique to just that game itself and even another Xenoblade Chronicles game would not feature the monado as an icon. Gotta say though, incase you misse dmy edit, the game Director has been the same one, Takahashi, since Xenogears. Its the same series my friend

It's about as much the same series as Bloodstained is to Castlevania, Tear Ring Saga is to FE, Mighty Number Nine is to Mega Man, Yooka-Laylee is to Banjo-Kazooie, Golden Sun is to Shining, etc. etc.

The same people creating a game spiritually linked to their past work does not in the same series make.

 

[Will]

The argument is ridiculously dumb when the xeno games have their own symbols.

i guarantee you if rex and pyra got in smash they would've held that monado that isn't in their game with full valor

 

[ES. Dinah]

And it is quite funny I get put on the spot for badmouthing when you guys badmouth KOS-MOS many times in this thread. Hell, I even saw Fatman say insiders insult her.

 

[Deleted member]

Joker obviously. Why on Earth would they cut Mario?

That is exactly my point. You have my sincerest gratitude for validating my argument on something that really doesn't matter anyway

 

[Deleted member]

Right, cause the topic was already heated and I wanted to participate. Dont call me out on stuff I didn't do. Badmouthing is saying Nightmare sucks and will never get in.

And what is the god damn point of pointing out Talim's popularity? Go on. Tell me. Why is it so important that Talim is more popular than Nightmare? And while you're at it, go on and explain why it matters to KOSMOS, since you mentioned that in your original post? I ain't buying this. Don't think you can ignore this little gem.

He definitley does not have the edge over KOS-MOS here.

I know your god damn intent.

And it is quite funny I get put on the spot for badmouthing when you guys badmouth KOS-MOS many times in this thread. Hell, I even saw Fatman say insiders insult her.

Dude! I ****ing support KOSMOS!!!

 

[Deleted member]

E: Double post

 

[cothero]

hack and slash

View attachment 248836 View attachment 248839

Agree, Bayonetta is not enough. WE NEED MORE HACK AND SLASH BOIS.

 

[Will]

I know your god damn intent.

bro, bro, chill, you're going too ham

you're trying to bust him out like a phoenix wright case

 

[Deleted member]

Should've just made the Xenoblade symbol the letters "XB" just like the super interesting "SF" and "FF" symbols.

 

[Deleted member]

It's about as much the same series as Bloodstained is to Castlevania, Tear Ring Saga is to FE, Mighty Number Nine is to Mega Man, Yooka-Laylee is to Banjo-Kazooie, Golden Sun is to Shining, etc. etc.

The same people creating a game spiritually linked to their past work does not in the same series make.

But the Director HIMSELF trying to refresh the series and making it work over the last 20 years DOES make it a series. Xenogears didn't get off the ground as he had hoped, so he tried to start fresh rebooting the series as a set of interconnected games starting with Xenosaga (which was planned to be 6 games, but only ended up being 3). When that, too, failed (back in 2002, I believe) he tried again to reboot the series and came back with Xenoblade Chronicles. It's the same director trying different approaches to get his series off the ground (the most successful thus far being Xenoblade), but it is actually apart of the same series; just multiple reboots of it.

Not to mention that the man himself said as much in past interviews.

 

[ES. Dinah]

Dude! I ****ing support KOSMOS!!!

Yeah, am I'm not talking to you. I'm just making a general comment here. I'm not happy with your post but whatever.

 

[Night Gale]

While Xenosaga and Soul Calibur fans go for each other's throats, Masahiro Sakurai fails to implement a Tekken character again, Idolmaster ironically doesn't have enough vocal support, Godeater gets a boss battle and no reps, Katamari is out because of its strong political message which would displease China, Dark Souls gets nothing but spirits, and Nintendo avoids Digimon so that it doesn't steal Pokemon's hype, f***ing Ridge Racer will come from behind for the win.

 

[Deleted member]

bro, bro, chill, you're going too ham

you're trying to bust him out like a phoenix wright case

You're right. I'm not sure why that pissed me off more than it did. Probably because I just got off of reading in this same thread that apparently supporting Nightmare is sexist.

 

[lordvaati]

I actually didn't know that.

yup. and the character who got #1? Sakura.....a little bit before it was revealed she was coming back for the next season of SFV.

some people tend to vote for missing characters to get them back in recent games-same occured with the Smash Ballot where Sakurai stated that some prior fighters from older games made the high rankings.

Only recent popularity poll that didn't turn into a character request one in disguise was this SNK one from awhile back.

 

[BlackInk]

i guarantee you if rex and pyra got in smash they would've held that monado that isn't in their game with full valor

That’ll be ridiculously stupid.

And it is quite funny I get put on the spot for badmouthing when you guys badmouth KOS-MOS many times in this thread. Hell, I even saw Fatman say insiders insult her.

They’re extremely biased towards Nightmare. I doubted him because his move set was boring and insanely repetitive for Smash Ultimate, then they wanted my head.

 

[AceAttorney9000]

I'm totally OK with Nightmare or another SC character getting into Smash. Also, it's totally possible to have two fighting game characters in a row, as we had two RPG characters in sequence before. Let's analyze the genres:

Joker (Role-playing, social simulation)
Hero (Role-playing)
Banjo-Kazooie (Platforming, action-adventure)
Terry (Fighting game)
Fighter #5 (???)

Honestly, the lack of characters from FPS's in smash annoys me. Do you think they'll add a character from another genre this time around? Let's discuss genres.

Joker and Hero are both JRPG characters, but they come from two completely different JRPGs. If Fighter 5 is from a fighting game, they'll likely be from one that plays differently than SNK's 2D fighting games (Tekken and Soulcalibur being obvious choices in this regard, since they're both 3D fighting games and the latter is also a weapon-based fighting game).

Of course, it's also possible it'll be a different genre altogether, like Visual Novel... speaking of...

 

[TheYungLink]

With all the arguing going on, I'd say this thread feels like a nightmare *audience laugh track*

But seriously folks, *trails off and gets back to homework*

 

[Will]

Should've just made the Xenoblade symbol the letters "XB" just like the super interesting "SF" and "FF" symbols.

You could honestly get away with using the X since the way it's painted is kind of unique

This is XC, XCX, and XC2 in that order.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Anyway everybody look at this Nightmare statue made out of Arby’s boxes! Doesn’t really have to do with him being in Smash, but it’s pretty cool.

 

[GKMLTTSB]

TIL Madoka crossed over with PSO2. I knew about the Madoka / Monster Hunter crossover, but this is news to me.

PSO2 will crossover with anything and everything its staff so much as looks at. It's insane how much that game has pretty much centered its identity on crossovers. Madoka, Yuru Yuri, Nier, Shining, Godzilla, Konosuba, King of Fighters, Yozakura Quartet, FFXIV, Vocaloid, 7-11... And the list goes on...

he looks fun to play and he's cool and he's got a giant ass sword

the simplest of desires

Fray from FFXIV! Whoo!
[or Derplander, but meh...]

Let's discuss genres.

The big one for me would be (MM)ORPGs. Specifically I'd be keen to see PSO, FFXI, or FFXIV get the nod, but I'd be down for GW/2, B&S, TERA, or even something like RuneScape or Maple Story (though those would be kinda 'eh') getting a slot.
Or I guess that other niche one that Blizzard threw out there.

After that, something that sits in the crossroad between Dating Sims, VNs, and the weeb market would be my focus.

Then classic Adventure titles and Edutainment...

For FPS reps, my picks aren't the most popular. >_>
I'd actually go with Duke Nukem or Sam Stone.

Idolmaster ironically doesn't have enough vocal support,

I'm doing it as hard as I can!

 

[Will]

That’ll be ridiculously stupid.

And yet look which series or icon the XC2 spirits are labeled under when you go in your Spirit inventory.

 

[Spongeboob]

I'm cool with whoever, but I think Dig Dug would be neat for a Bamco rep.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

They’re extremely biased towards Nightmare. I doubted him because his move set was boring and insanely repetitive for Smash Ultimate, then they wanted my head.

Yes, because people saying "yeah Nightmare would be cool" are obviously biased, compared to the guy who's been pushing his "no Namco characters are as popular as KOS-MOS because shes a lock" agenda, then playing coy when people call him out on it.

 

[Droodle]

You have a point. While she always had a loyal fanbase, she's more discussed in Smash speculation than bigger franchises like Tomb Raider, Soul Calibur or Dark Souls, specially these last months. Of course rumours and fake 4chan leaks helps to boost speculation on characters that some people ignore, and that's a good thing (the only one, I think, from fake leaks).
Considering the popularity of his franchise and the amount of competition she has as a Namco character, I think she's relatively "lucky" to be that discussed in comparison to other characters in a similar position, like Morrigan.

While I agree with you; there's a dozen other characters that have always fit the mentality of being "niche" at the time, but getting talked about a ton anyways for Smash . It isn't just exclusive to Smash.

Geno? Has to deal with bigger franchises like FF and DQ; and even now he faces competition with the Bravely series, Drakenguard/Nier, Kingdom Hearts (kinda), Chrono, and Secret of Mana. Most of his popularity came from a small video back in the Brawl days. Despite this, people still don't stop talking about him.

Banjo-Kazooie? I know we like to meme about it; but Minecraft is absolutely huge and a series that both Nintendo and Microsoft seem to care about. Add Halo on top of that, and Banjo-Kazooie has tons of competition in order to be a Microsoft rep. Despite this, people didn't stop talking about Banjo after Phil supported them in Smash.

Isaac? Golden sun was never an amazingly selling game (it did sell though), and Nintendo has tons of other characters that people want. Actually, Isaac and KOS-MOS are in a very similar position Smashwise. Isaac still got talked about a ton until he was deconfirmed.

Ridley? I know Metroid is popular in the West, but in Japan it is absolutely nothing. Even Sakurai joked about Terry being as obscure as Samus back in the N64 days. That said, people talked about Ridley a ton; even when the series was at its lowest point.

K. Rool? It had been over 20 years since he had been in a game, but DK fans felt like they were getting shafted so they were really vocal about asking for more DK representation. Even though, K. Rool wasn't really an active character.

So as you can see, "popular" requests in the Smash community do not always translate to "popular" characters outside the Smash community.

That said, KOS-MOS has burst into popularity very recently (definitely above what would be expected of her at the very least). And I think there are a bunch of reasons for it:

-Xenoblade was criminally underrepresented in the base roster of Smash Ultimate, most people will agree with this. You're telling me one of the most advertised games on the Wii U, and early Switch lifespan got no new characters in Smash Ultimate?
-Xenoblade 2 was really successful, it's sold around 2 million by now; which is not that far below the likes of Persona 5.
-Sakurai has stated that he loved Xenoblade 2.
-All the content that Xenoblade 2 got was a couple spirits of the main characters (not even all the major characters), some tracks that were oddly mixed (and not even some of the most popular music in the game), and 2 Mii costumes (one which you had to pay $25 for).
-Xenoblade X's "main" character is not in the game in anyway shape or form, as well as missing tons of music. You're telling me Elma didn't at least even get a single spirit. Correction, Elma did get a Spirit. Still underrepresented though.
-Many people dismiss Rex and Pyra's chances post-pass, because "You already pay $25 dollars for Rex, anyways".

-And now, XB1:DE gets announced as the final announcement of the September 4th direct. Clearly showcasing that Nintendo cares about the Xeno series, enough to end the direct with it.
-Monolith-Soft's 20th anniversary poster had KOS-MOS front and center, and Namco also has a good relationship with the character.
- and then, KOS-MOS gets a (most likely fake, but still could have a 1% chance to be true) leak, that does not get dis-confirmed by known insiders. The leak then starts to catch some popularity.

-So now you have Xeno fans, who got shafted hard in terms of base game supporting her inclusion rather vocally. That creates some discussion about the character, and so people look into the character and think the character is cool and start supporting them; and so KOS-MOS's fanbase starts growing rapidly. And as more and more characters get disconfirmed and KOS-MOS doesn't, her fanbase continues to grow. And as the next character's chances of being Bamco related increases, so does KOS-MOS's fanbase continues to grow even more.

-I guarantee you that if Xeno was better represented in the base game KOS-MOS's popularity wouldn't have exploded like after the cat leak.

TL;DR: KOS-MOS's popularity primarily stems from a similar reason to why K. Rool and Ridley were so popular as requests. Fans of the series think that their series is underrepresented, and so they are more vocal with their support for certain characters related to that series.

 

[cosmicB]

Honestly, the lack of characters from FPS's in smash annoys me. Do you think they'll add a character from another genre this time around? Let's discuss genres.

I'm up for that.

Ideally, I'd love to see every possible genre represented in Smash. We're still missing Puzzle (no, we are NOT counting Dr. Mario), Shmup, FPS, Visual Novel, Rhythm. What am I missing here?

As for what I'd want of those:

Puzzle: Arle: I would both love and hate to see her in because I know she'd be a crazy Pac-Man style trapper on steroids and I hate dealing with them.

Shmup: Reimu: Kind of similar to the above in that I'd have a terrible time dealing with her because zoning.

FPS: Everyone says Doomguy or Master Chief, but I'd rather have B.J. Blackowiz. Why? Wolfenstein is the only FPS I ever finished, lol. It would also give us some Jewish representation which I'm all for.

Visual Novel: Monokuma ideally who is my most wanted character in general, but I'd take Saber as well just because I find the idea of a character originating from an eroge hilarious.

Rhythm: Hastune Miku, and if she doesn't count because semi 4th party, then either Parappa or Ulala. I uh, don't really have anything else to say beyond that on this.

 

[BlackInk]

And yet look which series or icon the XC2 spirits are labeled under when you go in your Spirit inventory.

Seems like Sakurai was too depressed to look at xenoblade 2 content.

 

[Will]

I'm cool with whoever, but I think Dig Dug would be neat for a Bamco rep.

Ah, the enlightened boomer mentality has blessed us once again.

time for inflation tags to get back in actions

 

[Deleted member]

Anyway everybody look at this Nightmare statue made out of Arby’s boxes! Doesn’t really have to do with him being in Smash, but it’s pretty cool.View attachment 248840

What Arby's do I need to go to to see this?

 

[Will]

They’re extremely biased towards Nightmare. I doubted him because his move set was boring and insanely repetitive for Smash Ultimate, then they wanted my head.

****ing knew someone would say it.

 

[Deleted member]

-Xenoblade X's "main" character is not in the game in anyway shape or form, as well as missing tons of music. You're telling me Elma didn't at least even get a single spirit.

Correction: All XCX has is spirits, Elma included. There's Elma, Lin, Tatsu, Lao, and a skell. Not a lot of content, and the rest of your points still stand, but she is in the game.

 

[Will]

Seems like Sakurai was too depressed to look at xenoblade 2 content.

You're not serious, are you? No way on Sakurai's green earth that you legitimately think that. But I gotta check just in case.

 

[NintenZ]

Yeah I think I just saw the ugly side of Smashboards again.

People basically trying to cancel each other because of Smash character preferences is always a joy!

̶N̶O̶ ̶I̶T̶ ̶R̶E̶A̶L̶L̶Y̶ ̶I̶S̶N̶'̶T̶ ̶P̶L̶E̶A̶S̶E̶ ̶J̶U̶S̶T̶ ̶T̶A̶L̶K̶ ̶A̶B̶O̶U̶T̶ ̶A̶ ̶C̶H̶I̶L̶D̶R̶E̶N̶'̶S̶ ̶P̶A̶R̶T̶Y̶ ̶G̶A̶M̶E̶ ̶I̶N̶ ̶A̶ ̶C̶I̶V̶I̶L̶ ̶M̶A̶N̶N̶E̶R̶ ̶C̶H̶R̶I̶S̶T̶ ̶A̶L̶M̶I̶G̶H̶T̶Y̶

 

[Will]

-Xenoblade X's "main" character is not in the game in anyway shape or form

Are you blind my dude?