Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[P.Kat]

Just a note that Talim is much more popular than Nightmare. Nightmare didn't even place top 5 when Soulcalibur was a dead series. Look at the interest poll


1. Talim - 862
2. Taki - 720
3. Mitsurugi - 594
4. Ivy - 536
5. Kilik - 536
6. Siegfried - 500
7. Nightmare - 498
8. Zasalamel - 471
9. Yoshimitsu - 454
10. Tira - 438
11. Sophitia - 378
12. Cassandra - 339
13. Amy - 311
14. Yun-seong - 295
15. Seong Mi-na - 291
16. Cervantes - 268
17. Voldo - 259
18. Xianghua - 257
19. Raphael - 254
20. Setsuka - 214
21. Viola - 201
22. Maxi - 199
23. Hwang - 193
24. Hilde - 154
25. Astaroth - 142
26. Z.W.E.I. - 113
27. Natsu - 100
28. Pyrrha - 98
29. Xiba - 81
30. Lizardman - 76
31. Rock - 71
32. Li Long - 65
33. Algol - 59
34. Dampierre - 54
35. Aeon - 52
36. Pyrrha Omega - 45
37. Patroklos - 32
38. Alpha Patroklos - 30
39. Soul Edge - 30
40. Leixia - 28
41. Abyss - 27
42. Charade - 27
43. Olcadan - 26
44. Elysium - 23
45. Edge Master - 15


He definitley does not have the edge over KOS-MOS here.

Other than Sophitia, and Kilik, Talim is one of my favorite fighter in SC. I have fondness for Characters who has an affinity for wind.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

Point being it was an interest poll for SC VI. If y'all claim Nightmare is so popular then why did Talim get 1st place?

Yeah, because totally people are going to vote for a character to be in the newest installment that's been in the series since the first game

 

[Deleted member]

Point being it was an interest poll for SC VI. If y'all claim Nightmare is so popular then why did Talim get 1st place?

Because she wasn't in the previous game and people wanted her back, while Nightmare was almost guaranteed?
I doubt the Icies are the most popular characters in Smash but people felt their absence in 4 and were happy to see them announced last year at E3.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Can I get an F for our boy Lizardman

Actually Lizardman got his votes split because his SCV incarnation had the name “Aeon”.

So he should have 128 votes and rank between Astoroth and Z.W.E.I.

 

[ES. Dinah]

Because she wasn't in the previous game and people wanted her back, while Nightmare was almost guaranteed?
I doubt the Icies are the most popular characters in Smash but people felt their absence in 4 and were happy to see them announced last year.

You are missing the point again. Talim was absent for a WHOLE GAME

 

[N3ON]

Point being it was an interest poll for SC VI. If y'all claim Nightmare is so popular then why did Talim get 1st place?

Y'know that Ryu got ninth place in the SF character poll?

 

[Deleted member]

You are missing the point again. Talim was absent for a WHOLE GAME

You're impossible to debate so I'm just going to stop trying

 

[ES. Dinah]

Y'know that Ryu got ninth place in the SF character poll?

I actually didn't know that.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I was really hoping for Lloyd to be FP5, but now that he's seemingly deconfirmed, this will be my avatar until he gets in.

This Should Be His Spirit.

 

[KillerCage]

You actually made me look to see if this was true...
It wasn't.

This past month has been a joyride no?

SORRY! I was trying to be funny and he was the first Lloyd I could think of.
I didn't mean to scare you.

Sure thing bro
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=rTXeqXGnMj0

Thank you!

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

I actually didn't know that.

Too bad Ryu cant be in Smash. He isnt popular enough in polls sadly.

 

[TheCJBrine]

Just a note that Talim is much more popular than Nightmare. Nightmare didn't even place top 5 when Soulcalibur was a dead series. Look at the interest poll


1. Talim - 862
2. Taki - 720
3. Mitsurugi - 594
4. Ivy - 536
5. Kilik - 536
6. Siegfried - 500
7. Nightmare - 498
8. Zasalamel - 471
9. Yoshimitsu - 454
10. Tira - 438
11. Sophitia - 378
12. Cassandra - 339
13. Amy - 311
14. Yun-seong - 295
15. Seong Mi-na - 291
16. Cervantes - 268
17. Voldo - 259
18. Xianghua - 257
19. Raphael - 254
20. Setsuka - 214
21. Viola - 201
22. Maxi - 199
23. Hwang - 193
24. Hilde - 154
25. Astaroth - 142
26. Z.W.E.I. - 113
27. Natsu - 100
28. Pyrrha - 98
29. Xiba - 81
30. Lizardman - 76
31. Rock - 71
32. Li Long - 65
33. Algol - 59
34. Dampierre - 54
35. Aeon - 52
36. Pyrrha Omega - 45
37. Patroklos - 32
38. Alpha Patroklos - 30
39. Soul Edge - 30
40. Leixia - 28
41. Abyss - 27
42. Charade - 27
43. Olcadan - 26
44. Elysium - 23
45. Edge Master - 15


He definitley does not have the edge over KOS-MOS here.

Nightmare still got top seven and this poll is of a small sample size, does it really matter?

 

[Will]

I don't know if this is considered being a big bad bully but this is all you gotta say about the argument. Couldn't get the meme out of my head.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

They're not the same series. They're just linked by a prefix.

I've always heard the opposite.

Look at the first three rows, before the proto-echoes, third-parties, and DLC. The characters are broken up into two categories: series with multiple characters, and series with a single character (all of Mario seems to be treated as one unit). Now, Sakurai, being Sakurai, ordered these two categories by the debut of the series. Mario -> (DK maybe) -> Zelda -> Metroid, etc. for the series with multiple characters. The last one is Pokemon, the most recent with multiple characters. FE and KI precede it, even though they were added later to Smash.

The other category, the series with sole reps, is ordered the same. G&W -> Little Mac -> Duck Hunt -> ROB -> etc. all the way to Shulk, who is last. If Sakurai believed Shulk stemmed from the greater "Xeno" series (which isn't a thing), he'd have put him before Villager. Even if he started with Xenosaga, he would've put him before WFT.

"Xeno" is not a thing, at least for all intents and purposes in the Smash sphere.

Ok so why's Yoshi sandwiched between Mario characters, and Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina stuck in a corner? They are trying to go in order in terms of debut but there isn't really a hard and fast rule to character placement. It could also be ordered by the debut of the first Smash character within that series, meaning that the Xeno series is later than it should be because it's first Smash character didn't appear in it.

 

[ES. Dinah]

Too bad Ryu cant be in Smash. He isnt popular enough in polls sadly.

Didn't say he can't. Dont put words in my mouth. I stated this poll was an interest check for reviving the series and Talim placed 1st for a reason. I'm done arguing this.

 

[Tako Tuesday]

Y'know, now that I think about it, most FP characters so far has been unexpected in some way or another.

None of the notable leakers saw Joker coming IIRC

Banjo-Kazooie I feel were unexpected because it seemed all the FP characters would be more promotional picks for recent and popular games

I shouldn't have to explain how no one saw Terry coming

So that got me thinking, what if FP5 is also a more unexpected pick?

Calling it now, Euden from Dragalia Lost is FP5. He'll have a dragon gauge that fills up as he takes damage, and when it fills up, he turns into a dragon. Every DLC character has to have an overpowered gimmick, and this will be his. Euden is a lock now, so get ready for his inevitable reveal at TGA!

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

Didn't say he can't. Dont put words in my mouth. I stated this poll was an interest check for reviving the series and Talim placed 1st for a reason. I'm done arguing this.

You should be done arguing because clearly your argument is extremely weak and has so many holes in it

 

[Dark Bagel]

Does anyone think we may get the first Post Pass character announced with FP5?
Sakurai's team seems to be way ahead of the original schedule.

Possibly. For all we know, we could get two fighters announced in the same trailer ala Incineroar/Ken or Simon/Richter. But that possibility is particularly low imo, and I wouldn't get my hopes up.

(But could you imagine a smash cgi trailer at the VGAs that mishmashes two fighters that act as complete tonal opposites? Just imagine the insanity of Arle Nadja being the first character shown off, along with Dragonborn suddenly popping out of nowhere.)

 

[ES. Dinah]

You should be done arguing because clearly your argument is extremely weak and has so many holes in it

Alright show me your points that backup Nightmare in smash then?

 

[BlackInk]

Fair enough. I’m not arguing that Namco isn’t unlikely. I think they are very likely but, like I said, calling something a lock without substantial evidence (which I think we still don’t have) isn’t how I go about it. If we get Heihachi or a Namco Rep, awesome. If we don’t but get another character, awesome. I do think Namco deserves a Rep though.

I’ve been under a lot of pressure financially, with my job, family, and so on and I lashed out needlessly because of it. I’ll try to keep myself in check next time.

There’s one big detail I almost forgot about. They likely didn’t expect any future fighters after the pass and Sakurai made tons of comments about how it was unexpected for him to keep working for this game. It’ll be weird if they didn’t plan any Namco stuff for this pass, even if they didn’t have a fighter.

 

[Izanagi97]

Point being it was an interest poll for SC VI. If y'all claim Nightmare is so popular then why did Talim get 1st place?

Because she wasn't in SCV and people wanted her back

 

[Deleted member]

Point being it was an interest poll for SC VI. If y'all claim Nightmare is so popular then why did Talim get 1st place?

What the **** are you on? What does Nightmare's standing in his own series have to do with Xenosaga, a series that will never get a popularity poll any time soon? You're making KOSMOS fans look bad here by ****ting on other people's wants here.

 

[N3ON]

I've always heard the opposite.

From who?

Ok so why's Yoshi sandwiched between Mario characters,

Because Yoshi is a sub-series of Mario. If Xenoblade were a sub-series of "Xeno", it would still be ordered by when the series started, like with Mario.

and Dr. Mario, Dark Pit, and Lucina stuck in a corner?

Because Sakurai treated them exceptionally. Not as he would a standard character, like the ones relevant to my example.

They are trying to go in order in terms of debut but there isn't really a hard and fast rule to character placement. It could also be ordered by the debut of the first Smash character within that series, meaning that the Xeno series is later than it should be because it's first Smash character didn't appear in it.

But the exceptions make sense and are accounted for. They're late-in-the-game clones, DLC, third-parties (which are still ordered by series debut), and sub-series. Nothing that would refute Shulk's placement.

It's also not ordered by the debut of the first Smash character, otherwise Captain Falcon would precede Ness.

 

[Deleted member]

No, they aren't. .

Yes they are?

Just because it's wikipedia doesn't make it less true it was just the quickest reference I had to prove my point; they are part of the same series of games. Why else would every one of the games have been the same developer, the same core world appearance of Mechs, and all be action-RPGs instead of more traditional? Even the very first, Xenogears, was more of an input-based RPG; basically the prototype for the more action-RPG hybrid RPG's we've got today.

I mean, if you're younger, I'd get why you don't know that, but it's not too strange. Trust me, I've been around for the announement for all of these and have played since Xenogears; they're a series. They don't all relate to one another (Xenosaga was the most ambitious in that regard, but it fell flat for multiple reasons) but they are a series.

EDIT: Forgot, even the same game DIRECTOR since Xenogears; that more than anything should prove that its the same series

 

[Deleted member]

Calling it now, Euden from Dragalia Lost is FP5. He'll have a dragon gauge that fills up as he takes damage, and when it fills up, he turns into a dragon. Every DLC character has to have an overpowered gimmick, and this will be his. Euden is a lock now, so get ready for his inevitable reveal at TGA!

So long as he comes with CRASHER, I'm on board.

Copyright prevents me from linking the real song and I'm sad.

 

[AntagonisticGalaxyCetacea]

Alright show me your points that backup Nightmare in smash then?

Why even bother? You're so set on your KOS-MOS fanboying that you can't even see past the fact that there are more likely Namco reps than her.

Besides, Talim got higher on a poll, that clearly means she should be in Smash instead :^)

 

[ES. Dinah]

What the **** are you on? What does Nightmare's standing in his own series have to do with Xenosaga, a series that will never get a popularity poll any time soon? You're making KOSMOS fans look bad here by ****ting on other people's wants here.

Where did I badmouth Nightmare? I'm just showing that Talim is more popular.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

This thread today:

I’ve had fun finally posting all the Nightmare memes I’ve saved on my phone for past few months.

 

[Will]

Alright show me your points that backup Nightmare in smash then?

he looks fun to play and he's cool and he's got a giant ass sword

the simplest of desires

 

[N3ON]

Yes they are?

Just because it's wikipedia doesn't make it less true it was just the quickest reference I had to prove my point; they are part of the same series of games. Why else would every one of the games have been the same developer, the same core world appearance of Mechs, and all be action-RPGs instead of more traditional? Even the very first, Xenogears, was more of an input-based RPG; basically the prototype for the more action-RPG hybrid RPG's we've got today.

I mean, if you're younger, I'd get why you don't know that, but it's not too strange. Trust me, I've been around for the announement for all of these and have played since Xenogears; they're a series. They don't all relate to one another (Xenosaga was the most ambitious in that regard, but it fell flat for multiple reasons) but they are a series.

So you think KOS-MOS' icon is going to be the Monado?

Would you care to make it interesting?

 

[cosmicB]

My problem is with people that say Tales of "is too niche to be shown off at the Game Awards"; and then support KOS-MOS or Nightmare (usually Nightmare), as worthy character to be shown off at the game awards. SoulCalibur nowadays is 100% lesser known then Tales, and really the only thing mainstream about it was the custom character creation tools, not the actual series original characters themselves. I don't even know how well Soul Calibur 6 has done; probably around 1 million?

TL;DR: If you support KOS-MOS or Nightmare while actively being against Tales of being shown off at the Game Awards because "too niche"; you're a hypocrite. That said, both characters have their own reasoning to get in over each other, even if both of those characters are unlikely in the long run. Hopefully fans of both characters can get what they want.

I think there's an argument to be made that it's more deserving of a TGA spot becasue Soul Calibur's commercial heights in the west are much higher than the Tales franchise ceiling, which has been all over the place even when the games finally started getting consistently localized. I wouldn't be surprised if Tales of Berseria saw similar numbers in the west to Soul Calibur 6, and Siegfried/Nightmare is a more consistent entity compared to Lloyd who was in one game.

I don't necessarily think it should be like that, just thinking that's what the logic behind choosing TGA as a venue for Nightmare over Lloyd would be.

 

[BlackInk]

Why even bother? You're so set on your KOS-MOS fanboying that you can't even see past the fact that there are more likely Namco reps than her.

Besides, Talim got higher on a poll, that clearly means she should be in Smash instead :^)

What the **** are you on? What does Nightmare's standing in his own series have to do with Xenosaga, a series that will never get a popularity poll any time soon? You're making KOSMOS fans look bad here by ****ting on other people's wants here.

The Kosmos guy wasn’t talking about Xenosaga beating Soul Calibur, they talked about the potential soul calibur rep. That’s a different subject.

 

[Will]

So you think KOS-MOS' icon is going to be the Monado?

eh we kind of already made that point

unless it makes sense for KOS-MOS to have the Monado as her symbol.

people be arguing that KOS-MOS is the face of all Xeno and then yelling at Sakurai why she's got the Monado series icon reap what you sow

too bad he never mentions it tho, he keeps avoiding that one

 

[cothero]

I'm totally OK with Nightmare or another SC character getting into Smash. Also, it's totally possible to have two fighting game characters in a row, as we had two RPG characters in sequence before. Let's analyze the genres:

Joker (Role-playing, social simulation)
Hero (Role-playing)
Banjo-Kazooie (Platforming, action-adventure)
Terry (Fighting game)
Fighter #5 (???)

Honestly, the lack of characters from FPS's in smash annoys me. Do you think they'll add a character from another genre this time around? Let's discuss genres.

 

[Deleted member]

Where did I badmouth Nightmare? I'm just showing that Talim is more popular.

Bull-****ing-****! Get outta here with your bull****! You have used Nightmare's popularity to bolster your own damn series and I am not humoring that. You've made that clear in your original post.

Just a note that Talim is much more popular than Nightmare. Nightmare didn't even place top 5 when Soulcalibur was a dead series. Look at the interest poll

He definitley does not have the edge over KOS-MOS here.

 

[Deleted member]

So you think KOS-MOS' icon is going to be the Monado?

Would you care to make it interesting?

Probably not since the Monado is unique to just that game itself and even another Xenoblade Chronicles game would not feature the monado as an icon. Gotta say though, incase you misse dmy edit, the game Director has been the same one, Takahashi, since Xenogears. Its the same series my friend

 

[ES. Dinah]

he looks fun to play and he's cool and he's got a giant ass sword

the simplest of desires

It's fine to want him but I didn't turn this into a war between KOS-MOS and Nightmare so forgive me if I was arguing for KOS-MOS when the war was already happening. I dont appreciate being called out on badmouthing picks. I never do that. I love soulcalibur but I was just showing Talim is more popular. That's it.

 

[Deleted member]

eh we kind of already made that point

too bad he never mentions it tho, he keeps avoiding that one

KOS-MOS comes with Xenoblade X music but no Xenosaga music.

 

[Deleted member]

Okay so here's a hypothetical. Say Nintendo is developing Smash 6, and they're polling their audience on what veterans they would like back. Are you gonna vote for Mario, who is ****in Mario, or someone like Joker, who might not be such a sure shot for the game?
That's what that Soul Calibur poll was about. Nobody is going to ask to see Nightmare back when he's nigh guaranteed to be in the game regardless, so of course a character who wasn't in the previous game is going to receive more votes

 

[Tako Tuesday]

Okay, noob question. Who is Nightmare? The only Nightmare I know is the one from Kirby, who is obviously not who everyone's talking about