Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[Michael the Spikester]

I'm just surprised that Travis Touchdown is still in the running. That Ubisoft deconfirmation didn't completely knock my boy out. I would lowkey love No More Heroes, and bundling him with Shinobu Jacobs and/or his brother Sir Henry Cooldown would be a cool way to introduce DLC Echoes.

Bu-b-but KitKat...Creator deconfirmed him...

 

[Gentlepanda]

**** you, Panda.

a fine addition to my signature

 

[Dukemon102]

Does anyone think we may get the first Post Pass character announced with FP5?
Sakurai's team seems to be way ahead of the original schedule.

 

[cj.]

Here's a fun and depressing game to play: We are probably going to get more third party spirit events in the future, so by using the companies already present in smash which games would be best to get 4 spirits on the board?

Sega: Valkiria Chronicles
Atlus: Shin Megami tense (as in not Persona, just the demons)
Namco: Klonoa
Square: The world ends with you
Microsoft: Minecraft
SNK: Metal Slug



Yeah, I wish music would show up at least.

Sega: Ecco The Dolphin

Atlus: Shin Megami Tensei

Namco: Project x Zone

Square Enix: Space Invaders

Microsoft: Minecraft

SNK: World Heroes or King of the Monsters

 

[DarthEnderX]

Disney and WB will collab on ****ing Lego but refuse to give the people another Bugs and Mickey crossover after what, ****ing Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

I think part of Lego's licensing process is anything that they make sets for, they can use. So Disney and WB likely didn't choose to work with each other in Lego properties.

If KOS-MOS is revealed as FP5, I don’t see why it would necessarily mean the drunk cat leak is real.

Oh but, see, that's how we got all the leakers that we have now. A bunch of internet randos throw out guesses, one of them gets it right, and then that person becomes a "credible leaker" forever, that gets a cult following around them, regardless of the fact that they never produce any useful information again.

 

[epicmartin7]

As a note, I made a TL;DR version of the Max CSS Hypothesis. "How Smash Ultimate's Max CSS and WoL Placeholders Could Aid DLC Speculation"

While its a reddit thread, I'll post the full version here as well.

------------------------------------------------------------------

I posted about the Max CSS Hypothesis before, however, I fear the Google Doc this stems from may seem intimidating for some. So I decided to simplify things into bullet points as it might be a bit easier to follow.
However, I do implore you check out the original Google Doc in its entirety. It gives more info and great analogies that I think paint a decent picture of this.

• Max CSS count is 91 (with random.) This is due to devs not programming the shrinking of icons any further.
• In v1.0.0, 16 placeholder slots in WoL and Attack Param file exist.
• If you count from Incineroar to Mii Brawler on Max CSS, you get 16 icons. The same number as the placeholders within both files.
• This gives some evidence to suggest the limits were possibly intentional, at least in v1.0.0.
• I devised a hypothesis to state, not why they implemented it, but how the limits may stay in the future.
• These limits are not finite, but by tracking future updates, it could give us a good idea if they are sticking to it or not.
• The hypothesis does not just rely on the Max CSS as a backbone. It uses that in conjunction with both placeholder amounts. CSS "slots" by themselves are one of worst indicators content wise. But in this case, when paired with both placeholder amounts, creates a relatively stable backbone to use as a principle.
• There's pros and cons for and against it as of v6.0.0. Here are just some examples:

PROS:

• The Max CSS number has not changed ever since the base game dropped.
• The 16 placeholders have been (mostly) used.
• Even after v2.0.0 scrubbed a lot of unused data, the placeholders still reside.
• Another Smash game with DLC, Smash Wii U, never had a finite limit (or limits that are too unrealistic in nature.)

CONS:

• An uneven amount of WoL placeholders compared to Max CSS and Attack Param file (as of v.6.0.0).
• Before v2.0.0, 30 placeholders were in the executable.
• Stacked CSS and Classic Mode CSS crash later compared to Non-Stacked Smash CSS.
• Smash Wii U Max CSS (whatever it may be) and Initial Placeholders never added up.

This hypothesis is not meant to explain why. It's meant to be a set of possible parameters for people to use in order to make predictions.
So, in a sense, I'd like for this to be a tool people can use. Of course, it'll be more efficient once more data is collected. But for right now, I think it's good to keep in mind.
With what we have though, as I mentioned in the header, you could make a better (although still unproven) conclusion about future DLC amounts using this hypothesis as a basis. Which is just one of many examples this tool can be used for.
Let me know what you guys think. If you have any questions, I'll do my best to answer them.

 

[Deleted member]

It kinda disappoints me how KOS-MOS is a reasonable Bamco rep now that Lloyd's out and yet everyone is now thinking Nightmare or Heihachi or stuff. While I do admire his presence due to my FGC nature, you do know my wants...female characters. It seems the thread really has a bias for males, though it seems like it really is the reality of this community.

In my opinion, KOS-MOS is inevitable at best and very likely at worst. Just try to keep the discussion going, we might get her soon.

 

[BlackInk]

I think part of Lego's licensing process is anything that they make sets for, they can use. So Disney and WB likely didn't choose to work with each other in Lego properties.

Oh but, see, that's how we got all the leakers that we have now. A bunch of internet randos throw out guesses, one of them gets it right, and then that person becomes a "legitimate leaker" forever, that gets a cult following around them, regardless of the fact that they never produce any useful information again.

If the same kind of leak gets things right on two separate occasions, it makes it seem more credible.

 

[NintenZ]

Then use a different term than "the face of the series" because the face is LITERALLY a popularity contest.

Bruh you're using a literal echo chamber argument as opposed to years and years of how the brand has been handled, it's pretty obvious she's their leading lady just looking at the Xeno brand as a whole instead of measuring it by how normies see the franchise through a children's party game.

 

[Jassassino]

I would really love to have a definitive list of everyone in this thread who has said "X is pretty much confirmed at this point." and see how well they aged.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Does anyone think we may get the first Post Pass character announced with FP5?
Sakurai's team seems to be way ahead of the original schedule.

It wouldn’t surprise me, especially if both happen at TGA

 

[RoboFist]

Very late to this speculative party, but

how would you rate this roster and what do you think?
View attachment 248702

- Lloyd would be a fun, admittedly predictable/deserving character. I never finished ToS, but I always really dug the art style and Lloyd's design in general.

- I'm going to get murdered in my own home for saying this, but I'm laughably indifferent to Dante.

- At this point, I just want Geno in the game because the genuine long-time fans who have been rooting for him since Brawl have been so impossibly patient and passionate for such a niche character. This game is already MY Ultimate because I got my most-wanted in Banjo and Kazooie, and I'd love to see that group get their guy in, too. Rooting for him.

- Literally the only way this game could be even more perfect for me would be if my girl Shantae got in. She won't, but man I don't know how I'd even handle that reveal trailer.

- Prof Layton would be a FASCINATING choice. Definitely wouldn't be my first (or second or even third) pick to represent the point-and-click/puzzle-solving genre, but I'd be too curious to see how he would play to be mad. I know people would be PISSED if he got in over Phoenix, but putting Layton in would sidestep any inevitable comparisons to UMvC3. Phoenix got an awesome moveset in an awesome game, I think it's Layton's turn.

- Just put Doomguy in so everyone on this thread will shut up about Doomguy. Real talk, I get it, he would be fun, but he's been discussed so much these past few months that he's not even in the game and I'm already kinda bored of him.

- Sol who now?

- Okay, now I'm REALLY showing my uncultured age here...

- I'll be 100 with all you: I honestly wouldn't mind if Frogger got in. The novelty of seeing him go up against Pac-Man and DK would be fun. I think he'd be exactly the kind if random jokey Mr. Game and Watch-esque character that Sakurai would have fun with. Again, wouldn't be my first choice of retro arcade rep (frankly I just want a Ms Pac echo...or Paperboy), but the sheer ridiculousness of fighting as just an actual frog would be too funny to pass up.

- Look, I understand how important Ryu is to gaming, especially Nintendo's early days. But man I'd really love it if Smash's first katana-wielder was Takamaru. Not saying that they can't coexist in a future game, just...yeah. That's my stance haha.

- I'm just saying, a Smash battle against Mario, Pikachu, Sonic, Cloud, Banjo, and Crash would just be so deliciously nostalgic. I know this entire site is one big war of "anime swordsman vs cereal box mascots", but if I HAD to choose a side, it would be Team Cereal every single time. I barely ever even played Crash's games, and his inclusion wouldn't be nearly as long-awaited as Banjo's, but it would still be insanely cool to see.

All in all, hey, it's one diverse and unique roster no matter how you slice it. I appreciate picks like Layton and Shantae existing alongside Doomslayer and Dante. A little something for everyone. Honestly, replace any of them with Amaterasu and I would add a + to your A.

 

[Deleted member]

Gotta say, just from skimming I have no idea what's going on today.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Alright, I officially can't keep up with this thread anymore. It's updating faster than I can read it. I need to go find something else to do...

Bruh you're using a literal echo chamber argument

So are you. But my echo chamber is Smash Bros. fans. Your echo chamber is Xeno fans. Which is the far smaller, tighter, and therefor, more echoey chamber.

 

[BlackInk]

It kinda disappoints me how KOS-MOS is a reasonable Bamco rep now that Lloyd's out and yet everyone is now thinking Nightmare or Heihachi or stuff. While I do admire his presence due to my FGC nature, you do know my wants...female characters. It seems the thread really has a bias for males, though it seems like it really is the reality of this community.

In my opinion, KOS-MOS is inevitable at best and very likely at worst. Just try to keep the discussion going, we might get her soon.

The problem with Kosmos is similar for Terry, no one really cares about the niche characters even if Sakurai does.

 

[Deleted member]

I lowkey would prefer Sophitia or Mitsurugi for Soulcalibur. Nightmare is fine but I like the other two more.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

I would really love to have a definitive list of everyone in this thread who has said "X is pretty much confirmed at this point." and see how well they aged.

>Sweats nervously while hiding framed picture of Shadow the hedgehog

 

[N3ON]

There was a problem fetching the tweet

"I’ll probably stop deconfirming now as I don’t want to just keep looking into individuals characters, and we’re getting very close to TGAs."

As in "i'm going to stop asking my source for deconfirmations, because the reveal is already so close". There's no considering there, she's just flat out going to stop.

If I ever get hit with a C&D, I hope mine is optional like Sabi's.

 

[CroonerMike]

KOS-MOS sucks lol

 

[Deleted member]

It seems the thread really has a bias for males, though it seems like it really is the reality of this community.

Uh...sure, we'll go with that. People talking about Nightmare = some hidden agenda against female characters. Got it.

 

[GoodGrief741]

It kinda disappoints me how KOS-MOS is a reasonable Bamco rep now that Lloyd's out and yet everyone is now thinking Nightmare or Heihachi or stuff. While I do admire his presence due to my FGC nature, you do know my wants...female characters. It seems the thread really has a bias for males, though it seems like it really is the reality of this community.

In my opinion, KOS-MOS is inevitable at best and very likely at worst. Just try to keep the discussion going, we might get her soon.

I don't think you need to be biased against women to consider KOS-MOS unlikely.

And, "inevitable at best and very likely at worst"? ...I remember when a wise lady once (well, more than once) said "Don't jump to conclusions, lest you be disappointed".

 

[NintenZ]

KOS-MOS sucks lol

Yeah but she'll probably get in before Geno does let's be real here lol.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I think part of Lego's licensing process is anything that they make sets for, they can use. So Disney and WB likely didn't choose to work with each other in Lego properties.

Oh but, see, that's how we got all the leakers that we have now. A bunch of internet randos throw out guesses, one of them gets it right, and then that person becomes a "credible leaker" forever, that gets a cult following around them, regardless of the fact that they never produce any useful information again.

Or do the big brain move and make a ton of different anonymous rumors, and just use the ones that get things right.

 

[Will]

It seems the thread really has a bias for males

the **** kind of BS claim is that?

i just think nightmare is cool

your best other option is ivy, and she'd get rejected faster than you can say mai shiranui

 

[BlackInk]

Uh...sure, we'll go with that. People talking about Nightmare = some hidden agenda against female characters. Got it.

Nightmare is so sexist, when he met my mom, he told her “Make me a sandwich, *****!”

 

[KatKit]

As someone who types everything from the phone, this thread has always been too hard to keep track of lol. By the time I'm done making a post, there's like... 2 new pages.

Bu-b-but KitKat...Creator deconfirmed him...

Kitkat? D: I'm just going to assume that was autocorrect, haha.

If Grant Kirkhope taught us anything, it's that blatant lies aren't off the table.

I lowkey would prefer Sophitia or Mitsurugi for Soulcalibur. Nightmare is fine but I like the other two more.

Same.

If necessary, I'll whip out my Mitsurgi/Sophitia copy/paste to educate folks why they're equally viable candidates lol.

Although personally, I want that Cassandra echo more than any of them. Y'all should know why by now; I wrote an essay about her.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Uh...sure, we'll go with that. People talking about Nightmare = some hidden agenda against female characters. Got it.

It's physically impossible for me to have some hidden agenda against females, most of my favorite game characters are women lol

 

[Animegamingnerd]

Sam from Death Stranding is in the same camp is somewhat

It kinda disappoints me how KOS-MOS is a reasonable Bamco rep now that Lloyd's out and yet everyone is now thinking Nightmare or Heihachi or stuff. While I do admire his presence due to my FGC nature, you do know my wants...female characters. It seems the thread really has a bias for males, though it seems like it really is the reality of this community.

In my opinion, KOS-MOS is inevitable at best and very likely at worst. Just try to keep the discussion going, we might get her soon.

Xenosaga has been dead since the PS2 due to poor sales and Bandai Namco selling Monolithsoft to Nintendo and the only time its reference is whenever Monolithsoft makes a new game like Xenoblade 2 or Project X Zone. Meanwhile Tekken and Soul Caliber still get new installments that usually do better sales wise then all 3 of the Xenosaga games combine I believe.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Why wouldn’t it be a Namco rep when Heiheichi’s costume wasn’t in the mii costume horde for fighting-based characters?

Yeeeaaahh....

I’m not going to bother actually responding to this post as it’s not a post that deserves any sort of thought-out response.

 

[cosmicB]

It kinda disappoints me how KOS-MOS is a reasonable Bamco rep now that Lloyd's out and yet everyone is now thinking Nightmare or Heihachi or stuff. While I do admire his presence due to my FGC nature, you do know my wants...female characters. It seems the thread really has a bias for males, though it seems like it really is the reality of this community.

In my opinion, KOS-MOS is inevitable at best and very likely at worst. Just try to keep the discussion going, we might get her soon.

I think it's less about male bias and more people are operating on information they're given. Nightmare and Sol Badguy were named when the recent Lloyd stuff first started making the rounds. If Kos-Mos was named instead of Nightmare, that's who everyone would be talking about right now.

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah but she'll probably get in before Geno does let's be real here lol.

World 1-1 Goomba will probably get in before Geno.

Probably more well known than Geno too.

 

[ZoroCarlos]

Yeah but she'll probably get in before Geno does let's be real here lol.

No way, pal, Geno's been a lock for 20 years and counting.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

Gotta say, just from skimming I have no idea what's going on today.

Today is Nightmare apprecaition day.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Probably more well known than Geno too.

This hurts because it's true.

 

[BlackInk]

Yeeeaaahh....

I’m not going to bother actually responding to this post as it’s not a post that deserves any sort of response.

Your post is a giant paradox.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Yeeeaaahh....

I’m not going to bother actually responding to this post as it’s not a post that deserves any sort of thought-out response.

Lol, but you just responded.

 

[N3ON]

It seems the thread really has a bias for males, though it seems like it really is the reality of this community.

Or maybe it's because there are probably three to four times the number of plausible male candidates than plausible female candidates.

If equal time was spent discussing females as males, due to the asymmetrical quantity of male/female candidates, a significantly greater amount of time would be spent discussing two or three characters than anyone else, which in turn... isn't really equal, is it?

 

[Plank08]

After watching a 40 Minute video about Phoinex in smash I officially declare I really want Phoinex in smash now.

 

[Deleted member]

It kinda disappoints me how KOS-MOS is a reasonable Bamco rep now that Lloyd's out and yet everyone is now thinking Nightmare or Heihachi or stuff. While I do admire his presence due to my FGC nature, you do know my wants...female characters. It seems the thread really has a bias for males, though it seems like it really is the reality of this community.

In my opinion, KOS-MOS is inevitable at best and very likely at worst. Just try to keep the discussion going, we might get her soon.

I'd love for KOS-MOS to be in, but to call her inevitable is really stretching her chances. I know you can produce evidence like mad in support of her, but so could every Support Thread for the last year and a half for characters that have already been deconfirmed.

 

[RoboFist]

Although personally, I want that Cassandra echo more than any of them. Y'all should know why by now; I wrote an essay about her.

I wasn't necessarily on board with Sophitia being our Soul Cal rep.

Then you said this.

And now I'm 100% on board with Sophitia being our Soul Cal rep.

If we aren't getting Jill with a Leon Echo, then this is the next best hill for me to die on.