Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

[osby]

Offering opinion on characters that would be poor additions to Smash ≠ Hating


What makes a character worthy? What makes a character viable? I believe there are a few criteria a character has to meet:

1. Hot and relevant IP or heavily requested by the community
2 Potential for a unique moveset

Erdrick - Dragon Quest is of course an influential franchise that has helped shape modern JRPG's. So does it meet criteria 1? The IP isn't hot by global standards. Is the character heavily requested? No. Would his moveset be unique? I'd go out on a limb and say it would feel more like another Fire Emblem character. Making him a less than compelling addition to the game. The characters' biggest appeal is that it would be a new franchise to Smash that would be unexpected, but the general audience would have no idea who he is. These reasons are why I'm against his addition.

Steve - Minecraft is a global phenomenon, but its popularity has clearly peaked. It meets criteria 1 as it is still somewhat relevant. As for his moveset, I think it would be somewhat unique, possibly including some kind of digging mechanics. I think he would be akin to Mr. Game and Watch with his weirdness. I personally don't like the idea because well, Minecraft. But if we were to include a Microsoft owned IP, I say throw in Master Chief, but that's just me.

Ryu - When was the last time a Ninja Gaiden game came out? When was the last time Ryu was relevant outside of a Dead or Alive game? Clearly he doesn't fit criteria 1. As for 2, I just get the feeling he'd feel like another Sheik. But nothing about him screams unique, unlike Joker or highly requested characters like Geno, Banjo Kazooie, or even Crash. He just feels like a painfully bland choice from a game that hasn't been relevant in 5 years.

DoomGuy - I loved Doom 2016. That game was beautiful. DoomGuy was also beautiful. I'm so excited for Doom Eternal, but does Doom Guy really seem viable for Smash? His IP is relevant and will soon be hot with the release of Eternal. His moveset would be... tearing apart characters I guess? But really, I assume they would give him his shot gun, assault rifle, plasma gun, and his final smash would probably be the BFG. To reduce the violence, I feel as though they would go the Snake route by having his weapons be more of specials while punches and kicks would be his main means of attack. But to me that would just feel awkward, especially if you've ever played a Doom game. Some may argue that he would be in the same vein as Bayo, being unlikely because of their own game's mature content but getting in any way. I still feel like he's incredibly far-fetched to be in Smash. At least Bayonetta made sense since she's now owned by Nintendo. DoomGuy just doesn't seem likely at all.


So are you going to offer a compelling argument or continue to post smart-*** comments?

You said Erdrick would be terrible for everyone outside of Japan and I answered to that. I don't know why I should make an argument for other characters.

We have no idea about his moveset and by "general audience", you're omitting the Japanese audience, so I don't think you made a compelling argument in the first place.

 

[takai]

You said Erdrick would be terrible for everyone outside of Japan and I answered to that. I don't know why I should make an argument for other characters.

We have no idea about his moveset and by "general audience", you're omitting the Japanese audience, so I don't think you made a compelling argument in the first place.

You never made an argument in the first place, but I digress.

Every character has a general baseline of what their movesets could be, looking at their games most can assume what the general idea of their moves are going to be. And judging from that, DQ doesn't have a strong case.

The Japanese audience is only one part of the demographic they're trying to reach, and they won't exclude the rest when it comes to this.

 

[GoodGrief741]

You never made an argument in the first place, but I digress.

Every character has a general baseline of what their movesets could be, looking at their games most can assume what the general idea of their moves are going to be. And judging from that, DQ doesn't have a strong case.

The Japanese audience is only one part of the demographic they're trying to reach, and they won't exclude the rest when it comes to this.

What DQ games have you played?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You never made an argument in the first place, but I digress.

Every character has a general baseline of what their movesets could be, looking at their games most can assume what the general idea of their moves are going to be. And judging from that, DQ doesn't have a strong case.

The Japanese audience is only one part of the demographic they're trying to reach, and they won't exclude the rest when it comes to this.

Dragon Quest has well over 50 different moves among the franchise to pull from. Mind you, some of them were given more to Monsters, but for the most part, it's a skill that works for everyone.

The original Hero Class debuted as a do-all hero who could use any kind of armor, weapon, or spell. The Red Mage of the group. This is before Erdrick had gameplay too.

The issue doesn't exist. Figuring out how to balance out each skill/spell and his sword techniques, and figuring out what fun mechanic to use is the actual difficult part. Like, one idea I had is to use the 6 Cut moves and you could switch between them akin to Shulk's Monado Arts. Each one has advantages and disadvantages. MultiCut does multiple slashes in a row, at reasonable damage per. CleanCut affects materials more than anything else(which would be making it trump weaponry attacks or at the very least deal extra damage/knockback to armored foes), ZombieCut only does extra against undead(not too feasible, I admit), AquaCut has the same issue ZombieCut does, but BeastCut and MetalCut are highly relevant in this type of game. Metal foes are normal, and beastly opponents are very common. That's just one potential mechanic to use.

Another is he could upgrade his armor throughout the fight, though there's not many options that have unique differences. He could start off with his Leather, being faster, but being easy to knockback. Then regular metallic armor, which boosts his defense, but slows him down. He can then be further slowed down by the Magic Armor, which very slowly gives him 1% back per, say, 10 seconds, maybe? And finally Edrick's Armor, which has the strongest defense, but makes him way slower and harder to recover with, with slightly faster healer, like 2% per 10 seconds. Now the point here is how the series has tons of armors and weapons with unique abilities, same with highly specific spells. I already went over how Erdrick's abilities actually match MegaMan way better than any particular Fire Emblem character. He looks admittedly like a pretty generic swordsman, but in practice, is anything but. That said, if you haven't played DQ, it's understandable you don't know this stuff. I suggest playing the first game to learn a bit about the magic system and what the equipment is like.

 

[SpectreJordan]

Decided to do a little research & find out what the highest selling games series are, then see if they’re represented in Smash or not.

Now obviously a series being large doesn’t mean it’ll get in Smash (Bayonetta & Persona aren’t close to being on this list). But a good amount of the series on this list are represented, so it could make the leftovers more likely for future Smash appearances. Just some fun food for thought.

Here’s the top 20. I excluded sub-series (Super Mario & Mario Kart), Racing Games (Need for Speed & Gran Turismo) & series that didn’t originate as games (Star Wars, Tom Clancy, FIFA, Madden, etc...)

So, 9/20 series are in Smash with 4 extras not really fitting into Smash.

GTA, COD, Sims & Battlefield wouldn’t really fit into Smash Bros for a variety reason; though I could see stages based on the Sims & Call of Duty (particularly Zombies Mode) working.

So that leaves us with Minecraft, Assassin’s Creed, Resident Evil, Dragon Quest, Halo, Tomb Raider & Crash.

Minecraft & Dragon Quest are already heavily rumored to be in Smash. On top of that, they just make sense. Minecraft is one of the biggest games of all time & it’s still massively popular to this day across the globe. However, I could see Minecraft simply getting a stage instead of a playable character. Minecraft Steve would be a tricky character to fit into Smash; it’s definitely possible, but Sakurai may go the easy route instead.

Dragon Quest is notoriously huge in Japan, with comparisons being made that it’s their version of Star Wars. The series isn’t too popular in the West, but Smash is a Japanese made game & Nintendo/the Smash devs would probably want a Dragon Quest character in the game.

I don’t think an Assassin’s Creed character or Lara Croft are particularly likely. Neither series has a particularly strong history with Nintendo nor is there much fan demand for them. While those series are both great, they didn’t really do anything to revolutionize any genres or gaming as a whole (like Street Fighter or Metal Gear for example). However, Lara Croft & the white hooded Assassins are super recognizable & I’d think they’d both fit in well.

Halo is iffy. On one hand, it’s an Xbox exclusive series that’s never had a game on Nintendo (though it has content on the Nintendo versions of Minecraft). On top of that, it’s not popular in Japan at all. But Microsoft & Nintendo have recently been fairly close with each other.

Halo is an important series in the history of gaming as it helped to popularize shooters & online gaming with the masses. I also think Master Chief is the most iconic game character not in Smash yet. There’s also a rising amount of support for the character lately, which could help his chances. I don’t think he’ll be in Ultimate, but I could see it happening eventually as the next big Snake/Cloud Tier “Whoah, *HE’S* in!?” character.

Crash Bandicoot & a Resident Evil Character are the most likely on this list besides a Dragon Quest Rep IMO.

Crash is a classic gaming icon. Crash would complete the 90s mascot trio, as well as being another “PlayStation” character for the mini PS All-Stars roster growing inside of Smash. The original Crash trilogy was surprisingly popular for a Western made series too, which would give him some cred with the Japanese devs. He’s also had an incredibly successful revival recently. The Switch version in particular has been doing really good; Activision & Nintendo haven’t revealed any numbers yet, but I imagine Crash is one of the best selling multi-plat games for the Switch. I imagine Activision has a lot of plans for Crash in the future & that they’ll all be coming to Nintendo platforms.

I don’t know why exactly, but after Joker’s reveal I got the strange feeling that we’ll be seeing a Resident Evil character in Smash. Resident Evil has had a long history with Nintendo, with several prominent games starting off as exclusives. The series is also the biggest Japanese franchise not in Smash. Smash doesn’t have a horror character in it yet either, with the addition of the Fatal Frame assist trophy it’s clear that Sakurai isn’t completely hiding the genre from Smash Bros.

I think Leon Kennedy would be the character they’d choose to represent Resident Evil. Resident Evil 4 is the most popular game in the series, as well as starting off as a GameCube exclusive. Leon could also be used to advertise the Resident Evil 2 remake which I could see coming to Switch. I also think that Sakurai would lean towards Leon since Jill & Chris have previously been in fighting games; thus Leon would be a clean palette for Sakurai to interpret how a RE character would work in a fighter.

Super long post, but I thought it was interesting to think about. Smash is a game about gaming’s all-stars so it’d make sense that some of these series will eventually join the fray.

 

[Luigifan18]

I just wanted to drop in to share this work of genius:

 

[Door Key Pig]

Seeing as you're counting Tetris which has music in the Smash games, there's technically also a bit of Sim representation already too...

(technically parent to the spin-off Sims series tho, also a unique case being a Nintendo-owned character from such a third party franchise SimCity)

There was also that one Halo-related guy on Twitter who confirmed Master Cheif wasn't in the Smash DLC and, because of Rockstar's... complicated history with Nintendo, I don't know if they'd hypothetically be willing to put a character in Smash anytime soon

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

...Hence why I said "save for".

Saying everyone save for one or two doesn't help your argument when the pool of characters you are referring to is very small.

I have, he's not relevant and he would be a bland choice. He may be in DOA games, but what are those known for? The girls. And if we're getting a DOA character, give me Kasumi simply for the eye candy.

[/QUOTE]
Based on the current track record I don't think Ryu would even have his Dead or Alive design. I've never played the original Ninja Gaiden though so I'm not sure exactly what they would pull from that game.

Hey, I love DoomGuy. But a run and gun character like him just doesn't feel like he would belong in a Smash game. Snake is different I think because of his stealthy gameplay from his own franchise. I just don't see how Nintendo could dumb down DG enough to make him both a viable fighter and still true to his original games (like Sakurai wants). If Sakurai can, all power to him, but if I had to choose a character similar to DoomGuy, I'd rather have Master Chief since Nintendo and MS are buddy buddy right now anyway.

[/QUOTE]
It's not the dumbing down that's the issue, it's the removal of all of the M-rated elements. My guess is that he'd feel a bit like Ridley. Still not sure how interesting he'd be though.

Does any of the games show fully physical versions of the moves? Akin to Pokemon Stadium, Golden Sun, or Shining Force? The moves actually show up closer to the 2D Pokemon games(before the overhaul that showed where more unique animations) and EarthBound/Mother. I can understand why people have some troubling imaging some moves.

That said, the way they are implemented reminds me a bit more of how MegaMan has a very strange range and unpredictable moveset. This seems really good for Erdrick with how his magic works. Dragon Quest is well known for spells having a weird hit rate, and how they have a hard time targeting the monster you want to hit. This could be translated to having a harder to predict moveset. Like his Forward Air could be Firebane, which would be a line of fire being swung around. You could do similar stuff like that with tons of spells.

He could be the first RPG character to actually use an MP system. lol

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Seeing as you're counting Tetris which has music in the Smash games, there's technically also a bit of Sim representation already too...

(technically parent to the spin-off Sims series tho, also a unique case being a Nintendo-owned character from such a third party franchise SimCity)

There was also that one Halo-related guy on Twitter who confirmed Master Cheif wasn't in the Smash DLC and, because of Rockstar's... complicated history with Nintendo, I don't know if they'd hypothetically be willing to put a character in Smash anytime soon

He didn't confirm Master Chief was among the current Smash DLC already downloaded, at least. There's a serious lack of context among one of the most poor tweets ever made. His whole point was to mock somebody who was saying they'd go nuts if Master Chief wasn't in, while basically only saying the character wasn't in the game he literally downloaded. People shouldn't take such a blatant ****post so seriously. It doesn't make any sense. How on earth can he be allowed to even mention their negotiations with Nintendo as is? That's an obvious NDA break if we ever saw one. If anything, it either means realistically nothing or that Microsoft is not going to get DLC period. Nobody under them can outright say DLC doesn't exist unless MS itself is getting no DLC too in general. Being a higher-up in the Halo franchise doesn't change that saying that kind of information can easily compromise the company. The fact it's still up only shows it's either a ****post or Microsoft isn't in any negotiations.

Honestly, this is why I still expect Master Chief as a DLC costume anyway. There's really no reason Nintendo nor Microsoft would say no unless they never intended to approach Microsoft for any DLC. I can see why he wouldn't be playable, as that could make people not want to buy as many Microsoft products(because costumes are not the same thing as actual characters. Why buy Halo to play outright as Master Chief when you can play Smash instead? I don't agree with this mindset, but it's one that exists among competition. It's why exclusives exist, and generally, only cameos are used for those characters).

He could be the first RPG character to actually use an MP system. lol

I wouldn't say he's the best option for it. The hero class uses a lot of MP, but only in some games. I'd save that for a game where the hero is more about casting, where it plays more of a role. Namely, it's a key part of their class, not just damn useful. Shining Force makes Egress actually story important, a Hero only spell. Quest 64 stars a spellcaster(ironically his physical weapon is way stronger). Black Mage would be a stronger example of where MP is far more relevant.

Though it could work, I think focusing more on the armor(as you have at least 4 different unique armors that aren't just buffs alone) or unique skills that have similar abilities(akin to custom moves) would fit Dragon Quest more.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I wouldn't say he's the best option for it. The hero class uses a lot of MP, but only in some games. I'd save that for a game where the hero is more about casting, where it plays more of a role. Namely, it's a key part of their class, not just damn useful. Shining Force makes Egress actually story important, a Hero only spell. Quest 64 stars a spellcaster(ironically his physical weapon is way stronger). Black Mage would be a stronger example of where MP is far more relevant.

Though it could work, I think focusing more on the armor(as you have at least 4 different unique armors that aren't just buffs alone) or unique skills that have similar abilities(akin to custom moves) would fit Dragon Quest more.

I was mainly kidding. Such a mechanic would make him feel like a cross between Robin and the Inklings, and that probably wouldn't gel well with people who were already against his inclusion.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I was mainly kidding. Such a mechanic would make him feel like a cross between Robin and the Inklings, and that probably wouldn't gel well with people who were already against his inclusion.

I think the issue isn't the mechanic, just that the Hero Class isn't focused on Magic, so it would feel a bit too shoehorned in. Magic and unique weapons/armor are pretty important too~

 

[SpectreJordan]

Seeing as you're counting Tetris which has music in the Smash games, there's technically also a bit of Sim representation already too...

(technically parent to the spin-off Sims series tho, also a unique case being a Nintendo-owned character from such a third party franchise SimCity)

There was also that one Halo-related guy on Twitter who confirmed Master Cheif wasn't in the Smash DLC and, because of Rockstar's... complicated history with Nintendo, I don't know if they'd hypothetically be willing to put a character in Smash anytime soon

Huh, I didn’t know that. That’s interesting.

On the topic of Tetris, how is there not a stage or assist trophy? That’d be pretty fun.

 

[GoodGrief741]

Huh, I didn’t know that. That’s interesting.

On the topic of Tetris, how is there not a stage or assist trophy? That’d be pretty fun.

Rights to Tetris are all over the place, and The Tetris Company will sue everyone to strongarm people into thinking they’ve got full rights (even when it would appear that Nintendo has the rights to the OG titles).

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

On the topic of Tetris, how is there not a stage or assist trophy? That’d be pretty fun.

I think the reason we haven't gotten a Tetris or Dr. Mario stage is because it would involve platforms with tiny spaces in between them players would often fall in between these spaces. On top of this there would be too many bumps in the fighting area so traversal would be a bit of a neusince.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Rights to Tetris are all over the place, and The Tetris Company will sue everyone to strongarm people into thinking they’ve got full rights (even when it would appear that Nintendo has the rights to the OG titles).

My guess is Nintendo is only allowed to sell those titles. They might also have the rights to the names at best under certain circumstances.

Kind of like the name issues during the Datamines that we think could be Rareware content. All 3 names Nintendo owns, but nothing beyond that.

Copyrights and Trademarks are kind of strange at times. Like, having the rights to distribute something doesn't make you the owner of the content in itself.

 

[fleshdude.gov]

Rights to Tetris are all over the place, and The Tetris Company will sue everyone to strongarm people into thinking they’ve got full rights (even when it would appear that Nintendo has the rights to the OG titles).

I mean, you have to remember that at the time of the original Tetris games' release, the USSR was still around, and the original developers couldn't get any sort of copyright protection due to being based in the USSR. As such, the ownership rights are all over the place, and the Tetris Company's current attitudes towards copyrights are likely a direct result of that.

Also, it's worth noting that The Tetris Company is credited with Smash Ultimate - if you click info on either of the Tetris tracks in the music selection, they are mentioned as having let Nintendo use the music, so they must be willing to let Nintendo use at least a little Tetris content.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

While I do think Heihachi Mishima is most likely if there will be a Tekken character.
How would you react if it was Kazuya, with a Jin echo fighter?

 

[GoodGrief741]

While I do think Heihachi Mishima is most likely if there will be a Tekken character.
How would you react if it was Kazuya, with a Jin echo fighter?

Well it would be a waste because Heihachi is by lightyears the most iconic.

But I guess if they’re retiring the character that’s all we can expect.

 

[Crap-Zapper]

That's true. Unfortunately.
Out of the 3, Heihachi is by far my favorurite. Kazuya comes second.

Heihachi is the more iconic. He has been used more for crossovers.
Recognizable moveset. Old Badass which we are lacking at the moment.
Also, outside of Pac-Man, perhaps one of the most iconic characters of Namco. (while some might say Lloyd from Tales, he was in far less games than Heihachi. Still love Lloyd as well.)

While I do see Kazuya (and/or Jin) having a better ideal final smash, with the whole devil transformation, I still think as well it would be a pitty to not go for the old man.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well it would be a waste because Heihachi is by lightyears the most iconic.

But I guess if they’re retiring the character that’s all we can expect.

Why are they retiring Heihachi?

 

[fleshdude.gov]

Why are they retiring Heihachi?

His Japanese voice actor died.

 

[Idon]

His Japanese voice actor died.

To be fair though, Heihachi's already had two VA swaps with Banjo Ginja and Daisuke Gori being replaced.

It's unfortunate, but more likely than not they're probably going to get a new voice actor for Heihachi when he inevitably returns.

 

[Luigifan18]

To be fair though, Heihachi's already had two VA swaps with Banjo Ginja and Daisuke Gori being replaced.

It's unfortunate, but more likely than not they're probably going to get a new voice actor for Heihachi when he inevitably returns.

And yet Roy Campbell was retired forever when his VA died. I'm not sure whose legacy is insulted if Heihachi gets a pass, but somebody is going to look bad.

 

[Idon]

And yet Roy Campbell was retired forever when his VA died. I'm not sure whose legacy is insulted if Heihachi gets a pass, but somebody is going to look bad.

Well there's a large difference between Campbell and Heihachi.

Campbell is a character in a very story driven game and it wouldn't be too difficult to write him off as dying of old age if they ever want to continue the MGS story (They probably won't given the way MGS4 ended).

Heihachi on the other hand is also a fighting game function that HAS to remain playable in the future. He along with Kazuya form the basis of the Mishima-style karate, effectively the Ken and Ryu of the game. Heihachi, via resurrection, robotification, or hallucination, is coming back, and if they want him to talk in any way, they have to give him a new VA.

 

[Luigifan18]

Well there's a large difference between Campbell and Heihachi.

Campbell is a character in a very story driven game and it wouldn't be too difficult to write him off as dying of old age if they ever want to continue the MGS story (They probably won't given the way MGS4 ended).

Heihachi on the other hand is also a fighting game function that HAS to remain playable in the future. He along with Kazuya form the basis of the Mishima-style karate, effectively the Ken and Ryu of the game. Heihachi, via resurrection, robotification, or hallucination, is coming back, and if they want him to talk in any way, they have to give him a new VA.

Doesn't Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance take place after Metal Gear Solid 4, though?

 

[Idon]

Doesn't Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance take place after Metal Gear Solid 4, though?

It does, but it also doesn't use any of the MGS characters or MGS plot besides Raiden and Rose.

It's a complete offshoot and isn't associated with the patriots, zero, snake, big boss, or anything of the sort.

 

[Ornl]

Hi. I would like to speak briefly about a character, but it is too unpopular for a dedicated thread, and has no prevision in the "Rate Their Chances- Smash Ultimate DLC Edition!" thread. I'm just looking quick answers for short time. The question is, what are the main weaknesses that would prevent Mametchi from joining Smash?



"Unique / different"
Mametchi looks like Pikachu, and would be too similar to Isabelle, both physically (size, cute cartoon...) and both by the gameplay. But he can change color completely (unlike Pikachu/Isabelle), or may have a different form of Kuchipatchi, Memetchi, Violetchi... He could attack with poop, toys and cakes. Fun, right ? Unlike all new DLC fighters (Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, Corrin, Joker, and Erdrick), Mametchi is non-human.

"That never saw it coming / not anticipate to be in Super Smash Bros / new to the series"
Mametchi has never been claimed. He doesn't exist as a Spirit, while Sonic Chaos exist since Brawl.

Notoriety / link with Nintendo / promotional
Tamagoshi has been active for more than 20 years, sold 82 million units, has the first 4 games released on Nintendo support, and has the advantage of being known to the general public outside the video game world. Tamagoshi collaborated with The Pokemon Company since November 21st (Tamagoshi Evoli is planned for the end of January 2019).
Mametchi is the father of the virtual pets, appears on 8 DS games, appears as a driver in Mario Kart Arcade GP 2. He would be an exclusive representative to Bandai (unlike Pac-Man), a company helping the development of Smash Bros,

 

[Flyboy]

It does, but it also doesn't use any of the MGS characters or MGS plot besides Raiden and Rose.

It's a complete offshoot and isn't associated with the patriots, zero, snake, big boss, or anything of the sort.

It's also considered non-Canon by Kojima himself who calls it "Platinum's take" on the series. The game has also not been featured in any official timeline of the games and also in the Ground Zeroes mission where you find logos of every game with the Metal Gear branding, Rising doesn't have any special dialogue unlike the canon games.

(On a side note, that includes Ghost Babel which makes me sad since I love that game but I understand it's not part of Kojima's Metal Gear saga.)

So basically, it's very unlikely unless Konami steps in it that we will get any further Metal Gear games, especially with the reaction to Survive. And if we do they definitely won't include Campbell.

 

[fleshdude.gov]

Hi. I would like to speak briefly about a character, but it is too unpopular for a dedicated thread, and has no prevision in the "Rate Their Chances- Smash Ultimate DLC Edition!" thread. I'm just looking quick answers for short time. The question is, what are the main weaknesses that would prevent Mametchi from joining Smash?



"Unique / different"
Mametchi looks like Pikachu, and would be too similar to Isabelle, both physically (size, cute cartoon...) and both by the gameplay. But he can change color completely (unlike Pikachu/Isabelle), or may have a different form of Kuchipatchi, Memetchi, Violetchi... He could attack with poop, toys and cakes. Fun, right ? Unlike all new DLC fighters (Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, Corrin, Joker, and Erdrick), Mametchi is non-human.

"That never saw it coming / not anticipate to be in Super Smash Bros / new to the series"
Mametchi has never been claimed. He doesn't exist as a Spirit, while Sonic Chaos exist since Brawl.

Notoriety / link with Nintendo / promotional
Tamagoshi has been active for more than 20 years, sold 82 million units, has the first 4 games released on Nintendo support, and has the advantage of being known to the general public outside the video game world. Tamagoshi collaborated with The Pokemon Company since November 21st (Tamagoshi Evoli is planned for the end of January 2019).
Mametchi is the father of the virtual pets, appears on 8 DS games, appears as a driver in Mario Kart Arcade GP 2. He would be an exclusive representative to Bandai (unlike Pac-Man), a company helping the development of Smash Bros,

Unpopularity isn’t a reason you can’t make a dedicated Support Thread, and they seem interesting.

 

[Ridrool64]

Is Mametchi a video game character? Or a toy character?

 

[fleshdude.gov]

Is Mametchi a video game character? Or a toy character?

Mametchi’s from Tamagotchi, and since Agumon is also from a Tamagotchi originally, and their support thread’s legal, I don’t see why they wouldn’t be eligible.

Also R.O.B.’s technically a toy so

 

[Midoriki]

Hi. I would like to speak briefly about a character, but it is too unpopular for a dedicated thread, and has no prevision in the "Rate Their Chances- Smash Ultimate DLC Edition!" thread. I'm just looking quick answers for short time. The question is, what are the main weaknesses that would prevent Mametchi from joining Smash?



"Unique / different"
Mametchi looks like Pikachu, and would be too similar to Isabelle, both physically (size, cute cartoon...) and both by the gameplay. But he can change color completely (unlike Pikachu/Isabelle), or may have a different form of Kuchipatchi, Memetchi, Violetchi... He could attack with poop, toys and cakes. Fun, right ? Unlike all new DLC fighters (Ryu, Cloud, Bayonetta, Corrin, Joker, and Erdrick), Mametchi is non-human.

"That never saw it coming / not anticipate to be in Super Smash Bros / new to the series"
Mametchi has never been claimed. He doesn't exist as a Spirit, while Sonic Chaos exist since Brawl.

Notoriety / link with Nintendo / promotional
Tamagoshi has been active for more than 20 years, sold 82 million units, has the first 4 games released on Nintendo support, and has the advantage of being known to the general public outside the video game world. Tamagoshi collaborated with The Pokemon Company since November 21st (Tamagoshi Evoli is planned for the end of January 2019).
Mametchi is the father of the virtual pets, appears on 8 DS games, appears as a driver in Mario Kart Arcade GP 2. He would be an exclusive representative to Bandai (unlike Pac-Man), a company helping the development of Smash Bros,

I like the idea! And he's certainly as "eligible" as R.O.B. or Game and Watch.

I just don't think he really has a chance compared to Agumon, who already is far from a safe bet. Most of those achievements are pre 2010, including over 90% of all Tamagotchi sales. Digimon also isn't as big as it was in the early 2000's, but its had some console games out in the past few years with one on the way for switch, and a movie out every year since 2015. Tamagotchi has had a few phone games recently and a short film for its 20th anniversary, so its doing okay, but if I were Nintendo and wanted to pick a digital pet for a DLC fighter I'd pick Agumon, especially since Digimon has gotten far more international releases than the original Tamagotchi.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mametchi’s from Tamagotchi, and since Agumon is also from a Tamagotchi originally, and their support thread’s legal, I don’t see why they wouldn’t be eligible.

Also R.O.B.’s technically a toy so

Electronic Toys are video games for all intents and purposes here. Especially Tamagotchi-like ones.

Agumon is 100% a video game character due to this. Please feel free to make a thread. You already have a great start. If you're ever confused about a character, feel free to PM a moderator of this section or an admin and ask. We'll provide a proper answer for you. Of course, do check the current Forum Rules as it may answer your newcomer support questions.

 

[SPEN18]

So out of curiosity, who would you have hypothetically added amongst "ballot characters" in this scenario of "mostly everyone is here"?

First off, sorry for taking so long to get back to you on this.

But anyway, that question's tricky because I have my biases. I'm not exactly a huge fan of every "ballot character." It also depends on how many veterans are cut and how many uniques this allows. But if you want the shortest answer, I would give Isaac and Banjo the highest priority out of the ballot characters that didn't make it. Hard to go wrong with either of those two; they're both from "dead" franchises which is probably why Sakurai skipped over them (in addition to potential rights issues with Banjo), but personally I don't think that franchise dormancy is enough to ignore characters that, by pretty much all measures we have available, absolutely rocked it in terms of number of votes and historical significance to Nintendo. They're also both new franchises, which were pretty lacking this game.
If I got a third pick from the ballot, then there are a number of good competitors and the picture gets a lot less clear to me; among the candidates are Geno, Waluigi, and Bandana Dee. There's also the indies Shantae and Shovel Knight, plus Krystal. If there were rights issues with Banjo, then Rayman and Bomberman would be good third party ballot choices. Dixie Kong and Paper Mario were probably also up there.
In general, though, there really were a lot of good choices from the ballot and I certainly didn't name every "ballot candidate" above, just a handful that seemed worth mentioning. I tried to be mostly unbiased (for example, I haven't played Banjo-Kazooie and I don't really care much for Bandana Dee) and just give a snapshot of potential options. I'll also note that as we go further down the ballot it's harder to tell which characters were actually more popular.
But yeah, the short answer is Isaac and Banjo, barring rights issues with Banjo, if we're specifically looking at "ballot characters."
To clarify, you asked for who I personally would add from the ballot. So Isaac and Banjo are certainly not the only possible "ballot characters," but they're just the two that I think had the best combination of votes and credentials. If Geno got in I'd still call it a "ballot choice."

 

[dezeray112]

While I do think Heihachi Mishima is most likely if there will be a Tekken character.
How would you react if it was Kazuya, with a Jin echo fighter?

I'd be OK with this, although I would put Kazuya as Jin's echo fighter.

 

[BlondeLombax]

I know I'm going to get digitally yelled at for this, but here goes;

I don't think Assist Trophies flat out deconfirm characters for DLC.

Now that you've finished laughing at me like this Spy, let me just put out some of my personal beliefs in response to these arguments.

Spoiler: Make a pot of coffee, this was longer than I thought it would be.

1: Sakurai said they wouldn't be playable.
It's true that this is the case for Brawl...

...and for 3DS/Wii U.

(Just a reminder, I do like Waluigi, but to avoid accusations of bias, let me say that these were the only instances I could find)
However, it's curious to note that we've heard nothing on the situation of Assist Trophies throughout Ultimate's development cycle; not in the Directs, not on the blog, not even within Sakurai's interviews with insiders. It may not mean much, but it's still notable in that while the devs at SORA got straight to the point on the situation of ATs in the past two games, they've yet to say anything in regards to this installment. Not to mention, we've all heard about the interview where Sakurai admitted that he thought that Ridley was too big. Four years later, and the rest is history

Spoiler: All cards on the table, this is coincidentally way bigger of a pic than I expected it to be.

2: Wouldn't they have to remove the Assist Trophy to make it possible?
My answer to that; trick question, they don't need to. Instances of more than one character appearing in fighting games with assisting roles have existed for longer than most would think. In Dragon Ball FighterZ, Android 17 appeared initially as a part of 18's moveset, supplying assistance whenever necessary.

It wasn't until September of 2018, approximately 8 months later, where 17 appeared as his own fighter separate from 18's moveset. It should be noted that his playable appearance sees him in his park ranger outfit rather than his Red Ribbon outfit.

In a similar vein, another one of Nintendo's fighting games, Pokken Tournament, also has an assist character who was promoted to playable status; Croagunk, who started out as an Assist Pokemon who degrades the opponent's defense.

A year after Pokken released, Croagunk made a surprise appearence as a new fighter on the arcade version of the game, while being subsequently added to the DX version on Switch.

Instances of the same character have been done in multiple fighters in the past. In fact, there exists one in Ultimate itself, and at this point, we've all memed to the moon and back as to who it is.

3. Are the fans really deserving of the characters that they want? Their behavior says otherwise.
I understand that there is some resentment towards certain characters because of the behavior of their supporters because they give of the impression of being dishonest memers or otherwise (not gonna give specific examples, you know which characters and fans I'm talking about). But coming out with this argument is petty; by going by this philosophy, you're ignoring the silent majority of fans who genuinely enjoy the characters, and are thrilled if they're in and disappointed, but not livid that they're not. The best example for this was King K. Rool; when he was being campaigned for (kampaigned?), there was a majority of users who mocked the fans of the character, citing that they only wanted him in for the sake of nostalgia, as well as a majority of fans of the character being mildly annoyed to mega cheesed about the Mii costume in the previous game. But whenthe King actually got in, you know what followed? A heartfelt thank you letter...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

...followed by an official response from Nintendo.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This goes to prove that judging the nature of a character's entire fanbase on the grounds of the actions of a tablespoon of idiots has no real standing ground; when it comes to a fanbase, the friendly and honest ones are the silent majority, and the ones who matter most of all.

Sorry for plaguing the thread with this tangent, I just needed somewhere to post my thoughts on the matter, and this was the best recommendation I got from the main discussion thread. Let's just go back to speculating who's in and who's out, regardless of what happens with the characters.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Good post, but you should've mentioned that there are many cases where the pool of ATs the game will spawn is limited, ranging from not wanting multiple things to overwrite the background to not wanting two Moons on the Great Bay to not wanting Alucard to have a reflection.

 

[GoodGrief741]

I know I'm going to get digitally yelled at for this, but here goes;

I don't think Assist Trophies flat out deconfirm characters for DLC.

Now that you've finished laughing at me like this Spy, let me just put out some of my personal beliefs in response to these arguments.

Spoiler: Make a pot of coffee, this was longer than I thought it would be.

1: Sakurai said they wouldn't be playable.
It's true that this is the case for Brawl...
View attachment 187101
...and for 3DS/Wii U.

(Just a reminder, I do like Waluigi, but to avoid accusations of bias, let me say that these were the only instances I could find)
However, it's curious to note that we've heard nothing on the situation of Assist Trophies throughout Ultimate's development cycle; not in the Directs, not on the blog, not even within Sakurai's interviews with insiders. It may not mean much, but it's still notable in that while the devs at SORA got straight to the point on the situation of ATs in the past two games, they've yet to say anything in regards to this installment. Not to mention, we've all heard about the interview where Sakurai admitted that he thought that Ridley was too big. Four years later, and the rest is history

Spoiler: All cards on the table, this is coincidentally way bigger of a pic than I expected it to be.

2: Wouldn't they have to remove the Assist Trophy to make it possible?
My answer to that; trick question, they don't need to. Instances of more than one character appearing in fighting games with assisting roles have existed for longer than most would think. In Dragon Ball FighterZ, Android 17 appeared initially as a part of 18's moveset, supplying assistance whenever necessary.

It wasn't until September of 2018, approximately 8 months later, where 17 appeared as his own fighter separate from 18's moveset. It should be noted that his playable appearance sees him in his park ranger outfit rather than his Red Ribbon outfit.

In a similar vein, another one of Nintendo's fighting games, Pokken Tournament, also has an assist character who was promoted to playable status; Croagunk, who started out as an Assist Pokemon who degrades the opponent's defense.

A year after Pokken released, Croagunk made a surprise appearence as a new fighter on the arcade version of the game, while being subsequently added to the DX version on Switch.

Instances of the same character have been done in multiple fighters in the past. In fact, there exists one in Ultimate itself, and at this point, we've all memed to the moon and back as to who it is.

3. Are the fans really deserving of the characters that they want? Their behavior says otherwise.
I understand that there is some resentment towards certain characters because of the behavior of their supporters because they give of the impression of being dishonest memers or otherwise (not gonna give specific examples, you know which characters and fans I'm talking about). But coming out with this argument is petty; by going by this philosophy, you're ignoring the silent majority of fans who genuinely enjoy the characters, and are thrilled if they're in and disappointed, but not livid that they're not. The best example for this was King K. Rool; when he was being campaigned for (kampaigned?), there was a majority of users who mocked the fans of the character, citing that they only wanted him in for the sake of nostalgia, as well as a majority of fans of the character being mildly annoyed to mega cheesed about the Mii costume in the previous game. But whenthe King actually got in, you know what followed? A heartfelt thank you letter...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

...followed by an official response from Nintendo.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This goes to prove that judging the nature of a character's entire fanbase on the grounds of the actions of a tablespoon of idiots has no real standing ground; when it comes to a fanbase, the friendly and honest ones are the silent majority, and the ones who matter most of all.

Sorry for plaguing the thread with this tangent, I just needed somewhere to post my thoughts on the matter, and this was the best recommendation I got from the main discussion thread. Let's just go back to speculating who's in and who's out, regardless of what happens with the characters.

Very much agree with this.

And also hope it happens because all the best characters are ATs.

 

[SPEN18]

because all the best characters are ATs.

I mean, there's some like Banjo and Geno who aren't, as well as a couple awesome series who had their ATs cut like Advance Wars and Sin & Punishment, but yeah, a lot of great characters are ATs, including two of my top three in Isaac and Lyn.

 

[Cabbagehead]

I know I'm going to get digitally yelled at for this, but here goes;

I don't think Assist Trophies flat out deconfirm characters for DLC.

Now that you've finished laughing at me like this Spy, let me just put out some of my personal beliefs in response to these arguments.

Spoiler: Make a pot of coffee, this was longer than I thought it would be.

1: Sakurai said they wouldn't be playable.
It's true that this is the case for Brawl...
View attachment 187101
...and for 3DS/Wii U.

(Just a reminder, I do like Waluigi, but to avoid accusations of bias, let me say that these were the only instances I could find)
However, it's curious to note that we've heard nothing on the situation of Assist Trophies throughout Ultimate's development cycle; not in the Directs, not on the blog, not even within Sakurai's interviews with insiders. It may not mean much, but it's still notable in that while the devs at SORA got straight to the point on the situation of ATs in the past two games, they've yet to say anything in regards to this installment. Not to mention, we've all heard about the interview where Sakurai admitted that he thought that Ridley was too big. Four years later, and the rest is history

Spoiler: All cards on the table, this is coincidentally way bigger of a pic than I expected it to be.

2: Wouldn't they have to remove the Assist Trophy to make it possible?
My answer to that; trick question, they don't need to. Instances of more than one character appearing in fighting games with assisting roles have existed for longer than most would think. In Dragon Ball FighterZ, Android 17 appeared initially as a part of 18's moveset, supplying assistance whenever necessary.

It wasn't until September of 2018, approximately 8 months later, where 17 appeared as his own fighter separate from 18's moveset. It should be noted that his playable appearance sees him in his park ranger outfit rather than his Red Ribbon outfit.

In a similar vein, another one of Nintendo's fighting games, Pokken Tournament, also has an assist character who was promoted to playable status; Croagunk, who started out as an Assist Pokemon who degrades the opponent's defense.

A year after Pokken released, Croagunk made a surprise appearence as a new fighter on the arcade version of the game, while being subsequently added to the DX version on Switch.

Instances of the same character have been done in multiple fighters in the past. In fact, there exists one in Ultimate itself, and at this point, we've all memed to the moon and back as to who it is.

3. Are the fans really deserving of the characters that they want? Their behavior says otherwise.
I understand that there is some resentment towards certain characters because of the behavior of their supporters because they give of the impression of being dishonest memers or otherwise (not gonna give specific examples, you know which characters and fans I'm talking about). But coming out with this argument is petty; by going by this philosophy, you're ignoring the silent majority of fans who genuinely enjoy the characters, and are thrilled if they're in and disappointed, but not livid that they're not. The best example for this was King K. Rool; when he was being campaigned for (kampaigned?), there was a majority of users who mocked the fans of the character, citing that they only wanted him in for the sake of nostalgia, as well as a majority of fans of the character being mildly annoyed to mega cheesed about the Mii costume in the previous game. But whenthe King actually got in, you know what followed? A heartfelt thank you letter...

There was a problem fetching the tweet

...followed by an official response from Nintendo.

There was a problem fetching the tweet

This goes to prove that judging the nature of a character's entire fanbase on the grounds of the actions of a tablespoon of idiots has no real standing ground; when it comes to a fanbase, the friendly and honest ones are the silent majority, and the ones who matter most of all.

Sorry for plaguing the thread with this tangent, I just needed somewhere to post my thoughts on the matter, and this was the best recommendation I got from the main discussion thread. Let's just go back to speculating who's in and who's out, regardless of what happens with the characters.

I don't know if any Assist Trophies will actually get promoted via DLC or not, but I agree with what you're saying. Until Sakurai officially comes forward and says that Assist Trophies still serve as a metaphorical tombstone in the era of DLC, an Assist Trophy promotion could happen, theoretically.

Very much agree with this.

And also hope it happens because all the best characters are ATs.

All that time spent in the Ashley support thread, talking about all the promotion she'd gotten...it sucks, man.

I'm kind of jaded about the whole situation (at least for Smash Ultimate), but boy, if AT promotions end up happening, a whole lot of people would be really happy! Maybe it wouldn't generate the amount of clicks and interest as another third-party, but it'd certainly go over well with Smash fans, at least.