Official Newcomer/DLC Speculation Discussion

Megadoomer

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Sitting and pondering the supposed leaked characters, I just can't help but think how atrocious the picks are. I love DoomGuy, but he doesn't belong in Smash. Ryu is just atrocious in general, the very thought of Steve makes me cringe, and this Dragon Quest character would be awful for everyone but Japan. DQ is practically a non-existent series worldwide.

That's just how I feel about it. Sakurai could be playing underwater 4D chess and is just using these codenames as dummies, or perhaps each names means something else entirely. I try not to stress myself out about it, I try to take them as they come.
The codenames from datamining are separate from the "leak" that included Erdrick, Steve?, Doomguy, and Ryu Hayabusa. The latter leak came from a Japanese message board that (from translations that I've seen) used Reddit as a source, while the datamining only showed characters codenamed Pakku (Piranha Plant, or Pakkun in Japan), Jack (Joker?) and Brave (Erdrick?).

As for Dragon Quest, it may not be extremely popular outside of Japan, but it's still insanely influential. I haven't played much of the series, but it helped to inspire games like Final Fantasy (seeing as Dragon Quest predated it as a console RPG) and Pokemon (Dragon Quest 5, in 1992, gave you the option to recruit monsters as party members). It's effectively what Street Fighter II is for RPGs; it may not be the most complex or the first one, but most RPGs that come afterwards owe something to it.
 

Ornl

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To complete the answer above, Slime also inspired the same enemy in Zelda 3 and the next Zelda opuses.
As a reminder concerning Erdrick :
- Erdrick DLC should be promoting the DQ franchise abroad (DQ11S will be released by Nintendo).
- The Dragon Quest series has already sold 76 million units.
- Dragon Quest 3 is the second favorite game in Japan, after Persona 5 : https://www.dualshockers.com/persona-5-best-game-game-time-famitsu/
- Dragon Quest appears 12 times (including Dragon Warrior Monsters) in a more global Japanese survey : http://www.gamekyo.com/blog_article388678.html
 

TheCJBrine

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I don't know why we should take PR words into consideration, since who is unexpected is different depending on the person and their thoughts, and most of their audience probably won't expect anyone anyway unless they're thinking too hard / base their expectations on their wants.

I'm sure the leak is fake, but its characters would be unexpected to a lot of people anyway. The "unexpected characters" statement didn't even come from NoJ, and not Reggie or Bill either, did it? I thought it was a guy from the Nintendo Treehouse - but either way, I don't think they mean much, as it's based on opinion.

We already have evidence that Erdrick may be in, anyway - though it could be Bravely Default or maybe Sora from Kingdom Hearts, maybe others - and it'd be weird for Nintendo to not include at least 2-3 big names.
 
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ryumo

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While I think the 5ch leak is fake, I actually think that the selection of newcomers is somewhat sensible.

The reasoning behind most characters is silly as it just boiled down to "promotion this series that has an upcoming game incoming, LOL", but the characters selected (Joker included) pertain various eras of gaming from the NES generation to the current generation which is something that Sakurai has done during the development of the Smash franchise in having reps from newer franchises among ones from older and inbetween.
 

Door Key Pig

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I meant unexpected. Erdrick and Doomguy's games helped popularize entire genres and are pretty big, especially with Nintendo. Minecraft content has been rumored for a very long time now and Ryu Hayabusa is the flagship character of the biggest Japanese third party company without any representation in the game, Koei Tecmo (Fatal Frame even has an AT). Erdrick has also been rumored for a while. I think that there will be more characters that people did not see coming.
Half the characters listed aren't even Japanese-owned though; they're totally unexpected choices like Joker was.
 

takai

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Speak for yourself.
Nice to see one of the seven people who play it outside Japan.

I don't know why we should take PR words into consideration, since who is unexpected is different depending on the person and their thoughts, and most of their audience probably won't expect anyone anyway unless they're thinking too hard / base their expectations on their wants.

I'm sure the leak is fake, but its characters would be unexpected to a lot of people anyway. The "unexpected characters" statement didn't even come from NoJ, and not Reggie or Bill either, did it? I thought it was a guy from the Nintendo Treehouse - but either way, I don't think they mean much, as it's based on opinion.

We already have evidence that Erdrick may be in, anyway - though it could be Bravely Default or maybe Sora from Kingdom Hearts, maybe others - and it'd be weird for Nintendo to not include at least 2-3 big names.
You know I've thought the same. Perhaps it's just corporate talk to try and influence people to buy the pass.
 

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Dragon Quest definitely doesn't sell as much as Final Fantasy outside of Japan, but even the first game is one of the most well selling games you can get. It pioneered Console RPG's after all. And is one of the most known DQ games too, since it's an iconic game for the NES. Let's not pretend the series isn't still fairly big in other regions. It does have trouble selling these days. It's part of why they have visible roaming enemies, as the idea of completely random encounters wasn't liked around that time(some still like 'em, but many prefer being able to avoid tons of encounters. I prefer RNG, but the other style is pretty well-designed).

The series changed with the times. It's not remotely niche in the US or unknown though. On the other hand, Erdrick is not very well known outside of Japan. Slime is very iconic and high profile in comparison. It doesn't mean it's the right choice despite being DQ's actual mascot. It's never that simple. When it comes to movesets, both have tons to bring to the table, but only one will dance in Sakurai's head. One is more feasible depending upon what kind of moveset he sees work.

Due to leaks lately, I lean more towards Erdrick, especially since the person who leaked Cloud before Smash 4 has noted he believes Erdrick is in. That sealed it for me. Otherwise, I'd give the two 50/50 with each other.
 

GoodGrief741

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Sitting and pondering the supposed leaked characters, I just can't help but think how atrocious the picks are. I love DoomGuy, but he doesn't belong in Smash. Ryu is just atrocious in general, the very thought of Steve makes me cringe, and this Dragon Quest character would be awful for everyone but Japan. DQ is practically a non-existent series worldwide.

That's just how I feel about it. Sakurai could be playing underwater 4D chess and is just using these codenames as dummies, or perhaps each names means something else entirely. I try not to stress myself out about it, I try to take them as they come.
Why do you think Doomguy doesn’t deserve to be in, and why do you think Ryu is atrocious?
 

Zwoolk

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First off I think that whoever Sakurai and the Smash team put in is going to be wildly loved whoever. Doomguy, Steve or Erdrick. There's something about the makers of smash who just get it right.

Secondly, I would like to make some prediction of my own because after collecting almost all the spirits and soundtracks you can see some obvious gaps in them like the Monster Hunter Series who has a boss but no other spirits. Also, the F-Zero series who has lots of racers but no Deathborn who was the main bad guy in some of the games but other smaller bad guys from the same games got in as a spirit and he didn't. Not saying they will be but just giving food for thought.
 

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The real question is... would he sell? The thing with DLC is that only people who want the character will buy him, if erdrick is popular enough in Japan, then yes if not.... He is not going to be DLC.
 

Daedulus

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Mostly in Japan, not as well elsewhere.
That's the issue, what about the U.S. and Europe, and even in Japan how many casual Smash fans will know who he is? I've literally never heard of him until now. And the more popular dragon quest name is slime, I just find it hard to believe Erdrick would be DLC Joker makes sense, the Persona games are popular everywhere in the world and he's recognizable, erdrick isn't.
 

osby

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That's the issue, what about the U.S. and Europe, and even in Japan how many casual Smash fans will know who he is? I've literally never heard of him until now. And the more popular dragon quest name is slime, I just find it hard to believe Erdrick would be DLC Joker makes sense, the Persona games are popular everywhere in the world and he's recognizable, erdrick isn't.
Corrin was DLC

DQ games are still available worldwide, I don't think it would be a big issue, especially if Fighter Pass has a character that caters to western audiences more.
 

Daedulus

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Corrin was DLC

DQ games are still available worldwide, I don't think it would be a big issue, especially if Fighter Pass has a character that caters to western audiences more.
We don't know there will be and while the DQ are worldwide, erdrick in his home game is from 1988 in Japan and 1991 in the states. His wasn't even released in europe! The game itself is very old and he's neither relevant or wanted, (every single DLC character could fit into one of these categories). They aren't going to add somebody from a game that only the hardcore fans have either played or know who erdrick is. You don't need to be a FF fan to know who cloud. You don't need to be Bayonetta fan to know who Bayonetta is and you don't need to be a Persona fan to know who Joker is. They would not add him because when we think dragon quest we don't Erdrick! we think of slime or something. You either need to be relevant in modern day or in the community, if you aren't then you probably will never get into smash.
 
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Secondly, I would like to make some prediction of my own because after collecting almost all the spirits and soundtracks you can see some obvious gaps in them like the Monster Hunter Series who has a boss but no other spirits.
It could also be because the creators of the Monster Hunter series holds on to their characters a little more tightly than the other companies owned by Capcom. They did refuse to allow Monster Hunter in Marvel Vs Capcom 3. Of course, it could also just be that they asked for Rathelos (or however you spell it) and nothing more.

They would not add him because when we think dragon quest we don't Erdrick!
What are you talking about? I Erdrick every day! Jokes aside though isn't Erdrick's popularity within the Dragon Quest series why we think he's going to be in the game in the first place? I mean, even before the leak people were lamenting about the possibility of Erdrick instead of Slime.
 
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So would he sell though?
There are plenty of people who buy the DLC just because they want to have all the DLC, or have to in order to use their Switches at tournaments. You bet that many have already bought the Fighter's Pass regardless of Sakurai's warning.
 
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Daedulus

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It could also be because the creators of the Monster Hunter series holds on to their characters a little more tightly than the other companies owned by Capcom. They did refuse to allow Monster Hunter in Marvel Vs Capcom 3. Of course, it could also just be that they asked for Rathelos (or however you spell it) and nothing more.


What are you talking about? I Erdrick every day! Jokes aside though isn't Erdrick's popularity within the Dragon Quest series why we think he's going to be in the game in the first place? I mean, even before the leak people were lamenting about the possibility of Erdrick instead of Slime.
Really I Erdrick too! But seriously though, I've never heard his name in speculation, I've heard slime and some others, But I doubt SE would choose erdrick over people like Geno or Sora, our bank accounts would be empty if they were DLC. That and the fact that Erdrick wouldn't bring anything new to the table kind of dispels his name for me personally.
 

Door Key Pig

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Really I Erdrick too! But seriously though, I've never heard his name in speculation, I've heard slime and some others, But I doubt SE would choose erdrick over people like Geno or Sora, our bank accounts would be empty if they were DLC. That and the fact that Erdrick wouldn't bring anything new to the table kind of dispels his name for me personally.
But Sora and Geno would?
In terms of Doomguy, FPSes aren't very popular in Japan, and at the moment, Bethesda is not a company Smash would want to associate itself with.
Yet they associated themselves with Capcom and Konami?
 

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Didn't Bethesda actually talk to the Smash team? It doesn't necessarily mean anything, but I don't see how they have bad blood either.

Sora is known worldwide. Geno is not known as well in the UK, but still known worldwide. He's overall less known than Erdrick, but only cause Erdrick is highly known in Japan. Otherwise, they'd be about on par. Erdrick's mostly a nobody worldwide to a degree.
 

RileyXY1

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Yet they associated themselves with Capcom and Konami?
You've heard about what happened with Fallout 76? What Capcom and Konami have done is tame compared to that. Here's everything that Bethesda has done:

1. They falsely advertised the Power Armor Edition, which was $200 by the way. They claimed that it would come with a canvas bag when it actually came with a cheaper nylon bag. They at first only gave affected players only $5.00 worth of in game currency, but the backlash was too much and Bethesda decided to give out canvas bags. The affected players will receive them between April and June.
2. A glitch in Bethesda's support system released the personal information of 65 players that applied to receive the canvas bag.
3. Several items in the Atom Shop are overpriced. A set of Santa Claus outfits and a large sign cost $20 and $14 dollars respectively. This is enough to buy the entire season pass for Fallout 4 with all add-ons.
4. They are treating their fanbase like they are in elementary school. Bethesda punishes modders and users of third party add-ons (including those that have no detrimental effect on the game and they force them to write an essay about how cheating is wrong in order for their ban to be lifted.
5. Coding in the game reveals that Bethesda plans to introduce "lunch boxes". These are essentially loot boxes with a more "friendly" name to reduce the controversy. As shown with Battlefront 2, players don't like loot boxes and neither do several countries. Loot boxes are regulated under gambling laws in several countries, including China, Japan, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands, and the Isle of Man.

At this point, Bethesda is more comparable to EA and Activision than Capcom and Konami.
 
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shinhed-echi

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To complete the answer above, Slime also inspired the same enemy in Zelda 3 and the next Zelda opuses.
As a reminder concerning Erdrick :
- Erdrick DLC should be promoting the DQ franchise abroad (DQ11S will be released by Nintendo).
- The Dragon Quest series has already sold 76 million units.
- Dragon Quest 3 is the second favorite game in Japan, after Persona 5 : https://www.dualshockers.com/persona-5-best-game-game-time-famitsu/
- Dragon Quest appears 12 times (including Dragon Warrior Monsters) in a more global Japanese survey : http://www.gamekyo.com/blog_article388678.html
Can I also add that Dragon Quest is like family to Nintendo? Most of the series games (including every mainline one, and it's bigger spinoff, Monsters) are on Nintendo systems. Has had 2-3 crossovers with Mario. Has had content in Miitopia, and a few minor cameos un FF1 and Zelda. Heck, they Even have a specific logo version for when the game is published by Nintendo! They don't do it with any other company!

I'm going to Say the thing that's been on my mind for people hating on this leak. Wether real or fake.

People who hate this leak, probably also hated SSB for WiiU's roster, and probably also hates videogames.

Dragon Quest: If you haven't played one yet, I don't know what to Say other than... Where have you been? Too many games on the series to overlook it.

Doom: The Legendary FPS that kickstarted the genre into what it is today.

Minecraft: Like Doom, huge franchise that pretty much pioneered a new game mechanic that's now been copied all over the place (even by DQ).

Ninja Gaiden: A worthy choice from one of the most popular 3rd party titles on the NES. Ryu Hayabusa is probably among the final few NES Icons left. But the games are still known to this day and are part of pop culture. Heck, this game probably defined the term "Nintendo hard"

If anything this leak is fake because it's just too good to be true. Which is why I consider it the new Grinch leak.
 
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Idon

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You've heard about what happened with Fallout 76? What Capcom and Konami have done is tame compared to that. Here's everything that Bethesda has done:

1. They falsely advertised the Power Armor Edition, which was $200 by the way. They claimed that it would come with a canvas bag when it actually came with a cheaper nylon bag. They at first only gave affected players only $5.00 worth of in game currency, but the backlash was too much and Bethesda decided to give out canvas bags. The affected players will receive them between April and June.
2. A glitch in Bethesda's support system released the personal information of 65 players that applied to receive the canvas bag.
3. Several items in the Atom Shop are overpriced. A set of Santa Claus outfits and a large sign cost $20 and $14 dollars respectively. This is enough to buy the entire season pass for Fallout 4 with all add-ons.
4. They are treating their fanbase like they are in elementary school. Bethesda punishes modders and users of third party add-ons (including those that have no detrimental effect on the game and they force them to write an essay about how cheating is wrong in order for their ban to be lifted.
5. Coding in the game reveals that Bethesda plans to introduce "lunch boxes". These are essentially loot boxes with a more "friendly" name to reduce the controversy. As shown with Battlefront 2, players don't like loot boxes and neither do several countries. Loot boxes are regulated under gambling laws in several countries, including China, Japan, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands, and the Isle of Man.

At this point, Bethesda is more comparable to EA and Activision than Capcom and Konami.
Well first, Doom is only tied to Bethesda by Id Software being owned by Bethesda. Id Software themselves have done nothing bad as of late.
Second, Konami has already played a large part in dumpstering gaming's most beloved series like Silent Hill and Metal Gear on top of also having a large hand in the gambling pot what with all their pachinko machines.
Third, I highly doubt that either Nintendo or the general gaming community would care that "HEY, DOOMGUY'S OWNED BY ID SOFTWARE WHO'S OWNED BY BETHESDA."
 

RileyXY1

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Well first, Doom is only tied to Bethesda by Id Software being owned by Bethesda. Id Software themselves have done nothing bad as of late.
Second, Konami has already played a large part in dumpstering gaming's most beloved series like Silent Hill and Metal Gear on top of also having a large hand in the gambling pot what with all their pachinko machines.
Third, I highly doubt that either Nintendo or the general gaming community would care that "HEY, DOOMGUY'S OWNED BY ID SOFTWARE WHO'S OWNED BY BETHESDA."
Using loved franchises for gambling machines is nothing like false advertising, overpricing the microtransactions, leaking your customer's personal info (although that was an accident), treating your fanbase like they are children, and adding loot boxes.
 

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Using loved franchises for gambling machines is nothing like false advertising, overpricing the microtransactions, leaking your customer's personal info (although that was an accident), treating your fanbase like they are children, and adding loot boxes.
Which Id Software didn't do. That's the point. Id Software didn't do awful things. No reason to blame them too.
 

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I never played Dragon Quest, I just don't hate every single character addition that are from the games I didn't play.
Offering opinion on characters that would be poor additions to Smash ≠ Hating


What makes a character worthy? What makes a character viable? I believe there are a few criteria a character has to meet:

1. Hot and relevant IP or heavily requested by the community
2 Potential for a unique moveset


Erdrick - Dragon Quest is of course an influential franchise that has helped shape modern JRPG's. So does it meet criteria 1? The IP isn't hot by global standards. Is the character heavily requested? No. Would his moveset be unique? I'd go out on a limb and say it would feel more like another Fire Emblem character. Making him a less than compelling addition to the game. The characters' biggest appeal is that it would be a new franchise to Smash that would be unexpected, but the general audience would have no idea who he is. These reasons are why I'm against his addition.

Steve - Minecraft is a global phenomenon, but its popularity has clearly peaked. It meets criteria 1 as it is still somewhat relevant. As for his moveset, I think it would be somewhat unique, possibly including some kind of digging mechanics. I think he would be akin to Mr. Game and Watch with his weirdness. I personally don't like the idea because well, Minecraft. But if we were to include a Microsoft owned IP, I say throw in Master Chief, but that's just me.

Ryu - When was the last time a Ninja Gaiden game came out? When was the last time Ryu was relevant outside of a Dead or Alive game? Clearly he doesn't fit criteria 1. As for 2, I just get the feeling he'd feel like another Sheik. But nothing about him screams unique, unlike Joker or highly requested characters like Geno, Banjo Kazooie, or even Crash. He just feels like a painfully bland choice from a game that hasn't been relevant in 5 years.

DoomGuy - I loved Doom 2016. That game was beautiful. DoomGuy was also beautiful. I'm so excited for Doom Eternal, but does Doom Guy really seem viable for Smash? His IP is relevant and will soon be hot with the release of Eternal. His moveset would be... tearing apart characters I guess? But really, I assume they would give him his shot gun, assault rifle, plasma gun, and his final smash would probably be the BFG. To reduce the violence, I feel as though they would go the Snake route by having his weapons be more of specials while punches and kicks would be his main means of attack. But to me that would just feel awkward, especially if you've ever played a Doom game. Some may argue that he would be in the same vein as Bayo, being unlikely because of their own game's mature content but getting in any way. I still feel like he's incredibly far-fetched to be in Smash. At least Bayonetta made sense since she's now owned by Nintendo. DoomGuy just doesn't seem likely at all.


So are you going to offer a compelling argument or continue to post smart-*** comments?
 
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Not sure if it’s already been said, but people are putting way too much stock in this text leak. Any leak like this that goes into detail about the reasoning why the characters are getting in ALWAYS end up being fake. Nobody that high up at Nintendo with that much information would be going around blabbing that info out to people. They got lucky with Joker, everyone’s been predicting a DQ character/Steve ever since Vergeben and Hitagi have been around, and Doom Guy & Ryu are just more educated guesses that sound crazy enough to possibly be real. If we learned anything from the grinch leak, it’s that there are people online who will do crazy amounts of research to make believable leaks like this.
 

GoodGrief741

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In terms of Doomguy, FPSes aren't very popular in Japan, and at the moment, Bethesda is not a company Smash would want to associate itself with.
None of those mean that the daddy of FPSes doesn’t deserve to be in, though.

You've heard about what happened with Fallout 76? What Capcom and Konami have done is tame compared to that. Here's everything that Bethesda has done:

1. They falsely advertised the Power Armor Edition, which was $200 by the way. They claimed that it would come with a canvas bag when it actually came with a cheaper nylon bag. They at first only gave affected players only $5.00 worth of in game currency, but the backlash was too much and Bethesda decided to give out canvas bags. The affected players will receive them between April and June.
2. A glitch in Bethesda's support system released the personal information of 65 players that applied to receive the canvas bag.
3. Several items in the Atom Shop are overpriced. A set of Santa Claus outfits and a large sign cost $20 and $14 dollars respectively. This is enough to buy the entire season pass for Fallout 4 with all add-ons.
4. They are treating their fanbase like they are in elementary school. Bethesda punishes modders and users of third party add-ons (including those that have no detrimental effect on the game and they force them to write an essay about how cheating is wrong in order for their ban to be lifted.
5. Coding in the game reveals that Bethesda plans to introduce "lunch boxes". These are essentially loot boxes with a more "friendly" name to reduce the controversy. As shown with Battlefront 2, players don't like loot boxes and neither do several countries. Loot boxes are regulated under gambling laws in several countries, including China, Japan, Australia, Belgium, the Netherlands, and the Isle of Man.

At this point, Bethesda is more comparable to EA and Activision than Capcom and Konami.
Konami mistreating employers and erasing people’s names from the games they made is much worse than that.

When Mega Man got into 4, Capcom was about as hated as Bethesda is now.

Offering opinion on characters that would be poor additions to Smash ≠ Hating


What makes a character worthy? What makes a character viable? I believe there are a few criteria a character has to meet:

1. Hot and relevant IP or heavily requested by the community
2 Potential for a unique moveset


Erdrick - Dragon Quest is of course an influential franchise that has helped shape modern JRPG's. So does it meet criteria 1? The IP isn't hot by global standards. Is the character heavily requested? No. Would his moveset be unique? I'd go out on a limb and say it would feel more like another Fire Emblem character. Making him a less than compelling addition to the game. The characters' biggest appeal is that it would be a new franchise to Smash that would be unexpected, but the general audience would have no idea who he is. These reasons are why I'm against his addition.

Steve - Minecraft is a global phenomenon, but its popularity has clearly peaked. It meets criteria 1 as it is still somewhat relevant. As for his moveset, I think it would be somewhat unique, possibly including some kind of digging mechanics. I think he would be akin to Mr. Game and Watch with his weirdness. I personally don't like the idea because well, Minecraft. But if we were to include a Microsoft owned IP, I say throw in Master Chief, but that's just me.

Ryu - When was the last time a Ninja Gaiden game came out? When was the last time Ryu was relevant outside of a Dead or Alive game? Clearly he doesn't fit criteria 1. As for 2, I just get the feeling he'd feel like another Sheik. But nothing about him screams unique, unlike Joker or highly requested characters like Geno, Banjo Kazooie, or even Crash. He just feels like a painfully bland choice from a game that hasn't been relevant in 5 years.

DoomGuy - I loved Doom 2016. That game was beautiful. DoomGuy was also beautiful. I'm so excited for Doom Eternal, but does Doom Guy really seem viable for Smash? His IP is relevant and will soon be hot with the release of Eternal. His moveset would be... tearing apart characters I guess? But really, I assume they would give him his shot gun, assault rifle, plasma gun, and his final smash would probably be the BFG. To reduce the violence, I feel as though they would go the Snake route by having his weapons be more of specials while punches and kicks would be his main means of attack. But to me that would just feel awkward, especially if you've ever played a Doom game. Some may argue that he would be in the same vein as Bayo, being unlikely because of their own game's mature content but getting in any way. I still feel like he's incredibly far-fetched to be in Smash. At least Bayonetta made sense since she's now owned by Nintendo. DoomGuy just doesn't seem likely at all.


So are you going to offer a compelling argument or continue to post smart-*** comments?
Your criteria doesn’t work when Castlevania and Mega Man and Pac-Man got in with not a lot of relevance, and nothing about Pac-Man or Cloud screamed unique moveset; it’s in the execution. Let’s dissect your post anyways.

Erdrick automatically clears criteria 1 because Dragon Quest is still coming out with games, with DQ11 still selling over a million outside of Japan. That’s hot, no matter how you slice it. As for criteria 2, you thinking he’s similar to Marth is nothing more than your misinformation, since Dragon Quest Heroes use magic. That’s not taking into account the possibility of a class system, a monster gimmick, or other unique traits from DQ that could be implemented.

As for Ryu, you don’t get to discount him as relevant because Dead or Alive very much keeps him relevant, and one is releasing in just a couple of months. Plus, the last Ninja Gaiden release was in the same year as the last Castlevania release, and that had no trouble getting in. As for him not being unique, well I guess you haven’t played a Ninja Gaiden game either. I don’t think there’s a single special move of Sheik’s that he could do, but hey, Ninjas gotta fight similarly I guess.

With Doomguy you don’t really give any reason as to why he wouldn’t be in, but you still manage to make a mistake and say Bayonetta is owned by Nintendo (she’s owned by Sega). So kudos for that.
 

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At the very least, Bayonetta's ownership gets confused by people often. That one's easy to make an error on. She's still 100% Sega thought. Platinum games created her. She's owned by Sega. Nintendo publishes her. That's exactly what she is.

Also, isn't the only Hero in all of DQ history that has no magic just the Dragon Quest II protagonist? They're otherwise very very versatile.
 

takai

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Your criteria doesn’t work when Castlevania and Mega Man and Pac-Man got in with not a lot of relevance, and nothing about Pac-Man or Cloud screamed unique moveset; it’s in the execution. Let’s dissect your post anyways.
Oof, a huge mistake right off the bat. Not a good start. All characters mentioned above were highly requested, save for perhaps Castlevania and Pac-Man when it comes to wanted characters. You'd have to be pretty deluded to think the Castlevania characters didn't have the potential for a unique moveset, and lo and behold, the did. However, this is my own personal criteria on what I believe makes a good character pick. Which is why I was against picking characters like Erdrick and Ryu, this is just the post I used to explain my reasoning.

Erdrick automatically clears criteria 1 because Dragon Quest is still coming out with games, with DQ11 still selling over a million outside of Japan. That’s hot, no matter how you slice it. As for criteria 2, you thinking he’s similar to Marth is nothing more than your misinformation, since Dragon Quest Heroes use magic. That’s not taking into account the possibility of a class system, a monster gimmick, or other unique traits from DQ that could be implemented.
Oof, another big mistake. DQ may be relevant in Japan, but the world? That's a big negatory. So no, it does not fit criteria 1.

Did I say Marth? Looking back, it looks like I didn't. Kudos for mentioning something I didn't. I said "Fire Emblem". Meaning akin to any of the characters, and it sounds to me like you just described Robin. So thanks for proving my point I guess? By no means do I dislike DQ, I just don't see the characters' potential as a fighter if Nintendo is going to go the "unexpected" route.

As for Ryu, you don’t get to discount him as relevant because Dead or Alive very much keeps him relevant, and one is releasing in just a couple of months. Plus, the last Ninja Gaiden release was in the same year as the last Castlevania release, and that had no trouble getting in. As for him not being unique, well I guess you haven’t played a Ninja Gaiden game either. I don’t think there’s a single special move of Sheik’s that he could do, but hey, Ninjas gotta fight similarly I guess.
I would discount him, actually. I would rather have one of the main girls from DOA instead of him if we had a choice. He's just not relevant as he would be if he had his own game.

With Doomguy you don’t really give any reason as to why he wouldn’t be in, but you still manage to make a mistake and say Bayonetta is owned by Nintendo (she’s owned by Sega). So kudos for that.
I gave my reasons, how he wouldn't feel true to the character if they decided to go the Snake route with him, and how he seems like a far-fetched choice when other more viable candidates are out there. Is he a viable fighter? Of course. Likely? Not so much.

Bayonetta's rights have been thrown around so much, it's easy to be mistaken. But are we going to see another Bayo game anywhere else at this point other than Nintendo? That's a nope.
 

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Oof, a huge mistake right off the bat. Not a good start. All characters mentioned above were highly requested, save for perhaps Castlevania and Pac-Man when it comes to wanted characters. You'd have to be pretty deluded to think the Castlevania characters didn't have the potential for a unique moveset, and lo and behold, the did. However, this is my own personal criteria on what I believe makes a good character pick. Which is why I was against picking characters like Erdrick and Ryu, this is just the post I used to explain my reasoning.



Oof, another big mistake. DQ may be relevant in Japan, but the world? That's a big negatory. So no, it does not fit criteria 1.

Did I say Marth? Looking back, it looks like I didn't. Kudos for mentioning something I didn't. I said "Fire Emblem". Meaning akin to any of the characters, and it sounds to me like you just described Robin. So thanks for proving my point I guess? By no means do I dislike DQ, I just don't see the characters' potential as a fighter if Nintendo is going to go the "unexpected" route.



I would discount him, actually. I would rather have one of the main girls from DOA instead of him if we had a choice. He's just not relevant as he would be if he had his own game.



I gave my reasons, how he wouldn't feel true to the character if they decided to go the Snake route with him, and how he seems like a far-fetched choice when other more viable candidates are out there. Is he a viable fighter? Of course. Likely? Not so much.

Bayonetta's rights have been thrown around so much, it's easy to be mistaken. But are we going to see another Bayo game anywhere else at this point other than Nintendo? That's a nope.
>All characters mentioned above were highly requested, save for Castlevania and Pac-Man

So, not all characters.

And I never did say that Castlevania didn’t have obvious unique character potential, the examples I mentioned were others.

DQ is relevant worldwide. Unless you have any reason to say otherwise. The series is still well-known in the West, and again, games are still coming out and the latest sold over a million bucks. If that’s not relevant then tell me why please.

I think it’s overly reductive to assume that a sword + magic = Robin clone. Ignoring all of the mechanics that could be implemented (since, well, you ignored them, probably because they hurt your point), they would likely still not play similarly. Elwind and Nosferatu don’t work for Erdrick, Thunder’s charge mechanic doesn’t make a lot of sense, Arcfire would likely be out in favor of something like Boom, and the time mechanic is inherently Fire Emblem.

Feel free to discount him, but you give no reason why, and you don’t give a reason why Ninja Gaiden has to be relevant when Castlevania and others didn’t.

Why don’t you feel Doomguy is likely?
 

takai

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>All characters mentioned above were highly requested, save for Castlevania and Pac-Man

So, not all characters.
...Hence why I said "save for".

DQ is relevant worldwide. Unless you have any reason to say otherwise. The series is still well-known in the West, and again, games are still coming out and the latest sold over a million bucks. If that’s not relevant then tell me why please.
DQ has a presence world wide yes, but certainly not a large one. It doesn't have a presence like Final Fantasy (Cloud) or Persona (Joker) have.

I think it’s overly reductive to assume that a sword + magic = Robin clone. Ignoring all of the mechanics that could be implemented (since, well, you ignored them, probably because they hurt your point), they would likely still not play similarly. Elwind and Nosferatu don’t work for Erdrick, Thunder’s charge mechanic doesn’t make a lot of sense, Arcfire would likely be out in favor of something like Boom, and the time mechanic is inherently Fire Emblem.
I didn't use the term clone, that would be going to the extreme. I said similar, and if they can use magic than I would say yes, Erdrick would be similar to Fire Emblem characters. I'm looking for unique movesets like K Rool, Ridley, and Incineroar when I consider DLC fighters; Joker has out of this world potential. And if we were to have another sword wielding magic user, I'd rather see Isaac from Golden Sun personally.

Feel free to discount him, but you give no reason why, and you don’t give a reason why Ninja Gaiden has to be relevant when Castlevania and others didn’t.
I have, he's not relevant and he would be a bland choice. He may be in DOA games, but what are those known for? The girls. And if we're getting a DOA character, give me Kasumi simply for the eye candy.

As for Castlevania, again, that's irrelevant. This is my own set criteria on what I think makes a good pick for Smash. I was asked to explain my reasoning, and these are the things I consider when I think of what would be a good choice for DLC. Already chosen characters are irrelevant.

Why don’t you feel Doomguy is likely?
Hey, I love DoomGuy. But a run and gun character like him just doesn't feel like he would belong in a Smash game. Snake is different I think because of his stealthy gameplay from his own franchise. I just don't see how Nintendo could dumb down DG enough to make him both a viable fighter and still true to his original games (like Sakurai wants). If Sakurai can, all power to him, but if I had to choose a character similar to DoomGuy, I'd rather have Master Chief since Nintendo and MS are buddy buddy right now anyway.[/quote]
 
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I think it’s overly reductive to assume that a sword + magic = Robin clone. Ignoring all of the mechanics that could be implemented (since, well, you ignored them, probably because they hurt your point), they would likely still not play similarly. Elwind and Nosferatu don’t work for Erdrick, Thunder’s charge mechanic doesn’t make a lot of sense, Arcfire would likely be out in favor of something like Boom, and the time mechanic is inherently Fire Emblem.
Does any of the games show fully physical versions of the moves? Akin to Pokemon Stadium, Golden Sun, or Shining Force? The moves actually show up closer to the 2D Pokemon games(before the overhaul that showed where more unique animations) and EarthBound/Mother. I can understand why people have some troubling imaging some moves.

That said, the way they are implemented reminds me a bit more of how MegaMan has a very strange range and unpredictable moveset. This seems really good for Erdrick with how his magic works. Dragon Quest is well known for spells having a weird hit rate, and how they have a hard time targeting the monster you want to hit. This could be translated to having a harder to predict moveset. Like his Forward Air could be Firebane, which would be a line of fire being swung around. You could do similar stuff like that with tons of spells.
 
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