Newbie Mafia 6 - OVER! Who lived happily ever after in Newbie Land?!

[Xiivi]

Day 2 Begins & Night 1 Ends!

No one is murdered.

Deadline for Day 2 has been set for April 27th, 2010 11:59AM EST.

It's takes 6/11 to lynch!
​

Day 2 Vote Count 0:

Clownbot: (0)
hidajiremi: (0)
​

Kataefi: (0)
McFox: (0)
rPSI: (0)
Ryker: (0)
Swiss: (0)
Sworddancer.: (0)
SwordsRbroken: (0)
The_Guide: (0)
vanderzant: (0)
Not Voting: Clownbot, hidajiremi, Kataefi, McFox, rPSI, Ryker, Swiss, Sworddancer., SwordsRbroken, The_Guide, vanderzant (

)

 

[Kataefi]

This is great!

vote: vanz

 

[The_Guide]

Epic doc is epic!

:D

 

[The_Guide]

Drinks all around!

 

[Kataefi]

*pours champagne*

but it's certainly not over...

I'll make a post detailing my thoughts on vanz but it will be tomorrow because it's 1:50am

 

[hidajiremi]

No one dead? Holy sh-

That's awesome! We're doing pretty good so far, I think. Let's keep it up!


Hida Jiremi

 

[The_Guide]

So, anyone else think that scum bussed Frohawk? 'Cause I certainly do.

 

[Clownbot]

Exactly what contradictions, Clownbot?

FoS: SwordsRbroken
He made a classic "could be wrong though" in case Ryker does end up mafia. He should not be shaky on his decisions.

Ryker was severly limiting the toDay's conversation by posting a fluff argument with McFox. McFox obviously is trying to be a good IC and give Swiss right to remain silent and acted sort of like his attorney. However, this could also be classic buddying, but I'm not quite sure if it's truly scummy.

Also, how was he actively lurking and why should he be looked at tomorrow?

A lot of his posts don't really bring anything new to the table to me, is all. If you disagree I'd be happy to let you point me in the direction of some that do.

But since the flip was scum I might do a reread to look at some interactions Fro might have had with others.

@Guide: Could be, but I wouldn't automatically look at the Fro voters just because they may have been bussing him.

 

[The_Guide]

Swords called him out on that contradiction, Clownbot.

Also, its almost definite that some scum were on the Fro wagon; not only did 7 out of 12 people vote, but three others expressed their suspicion of him. The only people not to comment on it at all were McFox and Fro himself (speaking of McFox, where has he gotten off to? Did I miss a V/La?).

All I'm saying is, people can't use "I was on the Fro wagon, so I must be town," as a defense. Since everyone was suspicious of him, its a certainty that one of his voters was scum.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Swords called him out on that contradiction, Clownbot.

Also, its almost definite that some scum were on the Fro wagon; not only did 7 out of 12 people vote, but three others expressed their suspicion of him. The only people not to comment on it at all were McFox and Fro himself (speaking of McFox, where has he gotten off to? Did I miss a V/La?).

All I'm saying is, people can't use "I was on the Fro wagon, so I must be town," as a defense. Since everyone was suspicious of him, its a certainty that one of his voters was scum.

Mcfox was V/LA for awhile now. He should be back soon.

Also, it is true that one of the people who helped/wanted hawk's lynch has to be scum, probably both of them stated that they wanted his lynch in some way or another. However, while we can't get definite proof on who is scum by looking at the voting record, we can still use it to help us, by looking at stuff just as when the people voted Hawk, if at all, what they said when they voted for Hawk, ect.

For example:

@The_Guide & Ryker

Do you think we really have enough time left to lynch Frohawk?

The_guide, in reference to this post, I had already pressured frohawk and marked him as suspicious when he posted the message quoted in that link (if that makes sense lol).

Why are you two trying to start a bandwagon on him NOW of all times. This needed to be done earlier, as with the deadline approaching FAST I don't think you'll be able to gather enough support in time.

Right now I think the tally is:

rPSI: 4
Vitamin C: 2
Frohawk: 2
Ryker: 1
McFox: 1
SwordDancer: 1

In the event that nobody is prepared to lynch Frohawk, would both of you (Ryker & The_Guide) be prepared to change your vote to rPSI or VC, depending on who has more support?

I think we all need to know where we stand in this lynch.

@The_Guide: Just read your post as I was previewing mine. I agree, and I am annoyed that I wasn't able to make some of those connections that you did (to Frohawk) as I was pressuring him. I was more wrapped up in the fact that he had been lurking hardcore, and I was busy building a case on rPSI at the time

<.<

Ok, I guess I was wrong lol, with not having enough time to lynch Frohawk. I just find it very strange that everyone is so keen (and acted so quickly) to get Frohawk lynched. I didn't expect this at all considering how long VC and rPSI each had 4 votes on them. My scumdar is tingling.

Despite that, Frohawk never responded to what I asked in Post 174 (and no one else wanted to pursue it further then...). I just want to make it clear that I'm not mindlessly joining the bandwagon, but rather agreeing that the evidence against Frohawk is compelling.

With that in mind, I'll happily put Frohawk at L-1. His lurking and lack of contribution are equal to that of VC & co.

I just hope this isn't a noobtell rather than a scumtell.

Unvote

Vote: Frohawk

You seem reluctant here to place a vote on Hawk. Also, you asked if we even had time to lynch him, even though we clearly did. If you're scum, then that's a convinent defense for your scum buddy, a defense where you give reason why a lynch on Hawk isn't a good idea while not defending him directly.

Another thing is that you were the one that placed him on L-1. Now, this by itself normally wouldn't be scummy, but the fact that you at first didn't really want to vote him does make it seem more scummy to me. I think that scum usually only votes for their partners when they are about to be lynched. Since you already came off a little scummy earlier, this makes me even a little more weary of you.

Defending him? Please point out how so. I've been suspicious of Frohawk for a while now. I was just pointing out that he could be a Town Newbie who is acting scummy, not because he is scum but because he doesn't know how to play. I've said a similar thing when I showed my suspicions for Hida, rPSI. Why didn't you pick up on it then?

Being suspicious of someone =/= wanting them lynched. Your case against hawk could be, for all we now, a bussing attempt.

Also, I did a quick read through again and I didn't see you say these things about these players. Perhaps I just missed them. Could you point them out to me?

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Vote Van

I'm going to do a ISOread on Van to see what more I can find on him.

 

[Clownbot]

Oh yeah, I'm aware that Swords caught that, Guide. The contradiction I said I thought hadn't been brought up yet was based on a misunderstanding I had when reading one of PSI's posts but I think I interpreted it wrong.

 

[McFox]

I actually came back during last Night, but obviously couldn't post because it was Night. Read through the rest of D1 that I'd missed, however, and I have to say awesome work town. Absolutely made the right call.

Could still go with dancer, or rPSI at this point. I'll go into more detail later, but that's what I'm thinking now.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yuck. I don't like the way Vand defends Frohawk indirectly. If Fro flips scum, Vand can follow him.

Vote: Vand

Ugh, between bad gateways and bad scheduling, I haven't been on recently, but I'm all caught up now. There have been some very compelling arguments made, and some interesting debate. I think that the quick swing to Frohawk as the leading suspect is very valid, and I'm willing to concede my vote to the cause for this day. If we turn out to be wrong, I'll be very surprised and disappointed, but someone's got to swing if we're going to be able to move forward at all. Maybe that's a bad attitude to have, but I've been genuinely convinced by the arguments as they stand.

Unvote
Vote: Frohawk


Hida Jiremi

FoS: Hidajiremi

You ended the day before town had finished talking. I still wanted to explain why I was suspicious of Vand, but when I looked up from Brawl+, you had ended the day. Scum benefits way more than town from a quickhammer, which this was.

Now, I'm voting Vand because of the way he acted with Frohawk. He wanted to appear hesitant to wagon and tried to let Frohawk have an oppurtunity to get out of it.

I think either Vand or HidaJ is scum, but not both.

You'll get more from me later.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'll go into more detail later, but that's what I'm thinking now.

Looking forward to it. You've not really provided anything since the beginning of the game. I want more stances from you and less coasting (much better word than active lurking. McFox is guiltier of it than rPSI, imo, as I can't remember a stance he's taken since the beginning of the game).

 

[vanderzant]

This is great!

vote: vanz

Why?

You seem reluctant here to place a vote on Hawk. Also, you asked if we even had time to lynch him, even though we clearly did. If you're scum, then that's a convinent defense for your scum buddy, a defense where you give reason why a lynch on Hawk isn't a good idea while not defending him directly.

Reluctant is probably a bad word to describe it. It was more so that I wasn't confident that Frohawk would flip scum.

Asking whether we had time lynch Frohawk was a fair question considering the context. It wasn't clear to me when I asked it. Take into account how slow the cases on rPSI and VC were at the time, and that it is my first mafia game (bad excuse), I was trying to reiterate some caution into the village. I figured that if Frohawk was scum, then we would be pressed to get enough votes on him considering his teammates wouldn't likely vote to lynch him.

I was worried that we'd be left with a situation similar to something like rPSI: 4 VC: 4 Frohawk: 4, and end up with no lynch (bad for the village).

Honestly, I was (and still am) very convinced that rPSI was scum, and he already had 4 votes on him, so I thought a Frohawk bandwagon was just a way for the Mafia to slow down the day. But how very wrong I was...

Another thing is that you were the one that placed him on L-1. Now, this by itself normally wouldn't be scummy, but the fact that you at first didn't really want to vote him does make it seem more scummy to me. I think that scum usually only votes for their partners when they are about to be lynched. Since you already came off a little scummy earlier, this makes me even a little more weary of you.

Again, I'd like to remind you to take into the context of the situation. The Frohawk bandwagon moved CRAZY fast. I posted my concerns about not having enough time when he had 2 votes, and then approximately 3 hours later later he had 5 and was at L2. This is an incredibly small amount of time, considering we had 8 or 9 days for Day 1.

I didn't change my mind/opinion on Frohawk between these posts.

the fact that you at first didn't really want to vote him does make it seem more scummy to me.

No, I just was more confident in lynching rPSI at the time. Frohawk from my perspective was just another one of the 4 major lurkers at the time, who were just as likely to be inactive town then lurking scum. In my opinion.

Being suspicious of someone =/= wanting them lynched. Your case against hawk could be, for all we now, a bussing attempt.

I was suspicious of of him yes. Did I want him lynched? If the majority of the town thought so too, and there were no bigger fish to fry. Again, I was confident in lynching rPSI.

Also, I did a quick read through again and I didn't see you say these things about these players. Perhaps I just missed them. Could you point them out to me?

Gladly. Searching is down, but here are two examples I found. This is what I was referring to

In Post #115

Vote: Vand



FoS: Hidajiremi

You ended the day before town had finished talking. I still wanted to explain why I was suspicious of Vand, but when I looked up from Brawl+, you had ended the day. Scum benefits way more than town from a quickhammer, which this was.

Now, I'm voting Vand because of the way he acted with Frohawk. He wanted to appear hesitant to wagon and tried to let Frohawk have an oppurtunity to get out of it.

I think either Vand or HidaJ is scum, but not both.

You'll get more from me later.

I'm waaiitttingg.

Maybe I'll post why I'm suspicious of Ryker in a minute.

 

[vanderzant]

Ok Ryker, I've noticed that you time and time again defend rPSI. It annoys me that you called out McFox for defending Swiss early on, yet I can see the exact same situation with you and rPSI. You STILL haven't given detailed thoughts on why you think rPSI is town. Anyway, maybe this recap will provoke you enough.

---

Iunno about rPSI. I liked him for wagoning early and trying to generate something. He and Swords are the two players who really should know what I was doing because they were in SSBB Mafia where I did the same thing. I even breadcrumbed it with the Unvote, Revote thing. That means he was one of two players who I really wasn't paying much attention to. I'll have to reread.

Rereading later in between my classes and I'll see if I can build a case. Till then my vote can sit where it is.

The reread still hasn't happened. Sort of off in a tangent, but I don't like how you you never placed a vote on rPSI (because you were set on Vitamin C) but you immediately switched from VC to Frohawk as soon as a case appeared on him.

---

I find it quite contradictory that you so readily jumped on and supported ryker's fluff case on Swiss, yet when other players make a similar (and arguably more legitamate) case on yourself, you straight away dismiss it because it's fluff. To me that is a weak excuse for not defending yourself.

And that's the reason I want to give him a pass.

Huh? Am I reading this right... you DON'T want to lynch him because he doesn't defend himself?

---

BTW, you guys think I'm not seriously contributing when people are up for there second prods. LOL

Thisthisthisthisthis!!!!!

In my eyes, neither of them were helping the town at all. At least VC got subbed out and The_Guide is contributing more as well.

---

I think that what he posted is a town tell at this point and would rather lynch VC for sure. I would like to give you a pass on this Day Phase and not worry about lynching you until I have more of a reason.

And more recently...

Exactly what contradictions, Clownbot? I don't recall them, so can you please point them out. Also, how was he actively lurking and why should he be looked at tomorrow?

Town.

Bum-bum-buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuum.

Explanation to follow tomorrow. Maybe not before deadline,

Is this de ja vu? Didn't you spend quite a while attacking McFox for defending another player (Swiss)?

So I'm going to put my vote back where it was a short while ago, to show that I'm serious.

Vote: rPSI

FoS: Ryker

 

[vanderzant]

Sorry for triple post, but I'm assuming that the main case against me right now is that I bussed (not too sure what it means, but I assume it is some form of buddying) Frohawk.

So I'd just like to point out that from a Scum perspective, bussing Frohawk is just about the dumbest thing one could possibly do. Frohawk posted like 5 times this whole game, so it was unlikely he'd come back to defend himself (or that he would be able to) after 5 votes + my 6. I legitimately thought that this was a quick lynch orchestrated by the Mafia, in order to get a town player lynched.

So it would of been much smarter for a mafia player to cut his losses and try and hide amongst the wagon, with a 2 word vote message. Just saying.

 

[McFox]

Looking forward to it. You've not really provided anything since the beginning of the game. I want more stances from you and less coasting (much better word than active lurking. McFox is guiltier of it than rPSI, imo, as I can't remember a stance he's taken since the beginning of the game).

I know you're still mad at me, but I just want to ask why

Ryker is town
Swiss is town
dancer is scum

don't count because...? I was V/LA for like have of D1, but I'd argue that that's fairly siginificant for a first-half of D1 only analysis.

 

[McFox]

half of D1*

 

[McFox]

I also fail to see how this doesn't count as "taking a stance."

is that I bussed (not too sure what it means, but I assume it is some form of buddying)

"Bussing" is shorthand for "throwing a buddy under the bus." This is when mafia sees that one of their own is going to get lynched, so the lynchee's mafia buddies also vote him out to get in good standing with the town. "See, we voted out Frohawk too! Why would we do that as mafia?" they can say.

You should also know that lynches organized at the last second and bandwagoned immediately are the rule, not the exception, on SWF. Most lynches come out of the blue in the last 48 hours, especially on D1.

 

[vanderzant]

Oh ok. Well in that case my above post (298) doesn't make too much sense. So if people would excuse where I said bussing above and replace it with buddying/defending, then you might understand what I was saying a bit better.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ok Ryker, I've noticed that you time and time again defend rPSI. It annoys me that you called out McFox for defending Swiss early on, yet I can see the exact same situation with you and rPSI. You STILL haven't given detailed thoughts on why you think rPSI is town. Anyway, maybe this recap will provoke you enough.

I wasn't defending him. I was disagreeing with the consensus that he is scum. I never tried to fight his battles for him and intentionally tried to not give him an out that he didn't earn. I don't like coming out with why I think someone is innocent before they've defended themselves unless I'm pressed for time and want my lynch to go through instead.

Your vote does not intimidate me because it is an OMGUS vote with no real backing (Oh My God You Suck: pretty much, you voted for me because I voted for you. Uncool).

The reread still hasn't happened. Sort of off in a tangent, but I don't like how you you never placed a vote on rPSI (because you were set on Vitamin C) but you immediately switched from VC to Frohawk as soon as a case appeared on him.

And me saying I thought rPSI was town didn't clear up why I didn't? Why force someone's hand in saying who they think is town. I don't think I feel like giving the mafia a map to who they should kill and who they can set up mislynches on.

Huh? Am I reading this right... you DON'T want to lynch him because he doesn't defend himself?

Nope. I think he's town because he jumped on my fluff case, but was, rightfully, calling the case on himself bunk.

In my eyes, neither of them were helping the town at all. At least VC got subbed out and The_Guide is contributing more as well.

Which is why they needed votes and why it was ridiculous that you wanted to push rPSI for "active lurking" and also why I think that one of the two are scum that you were trying to protect by pushing rPSI instead.

Is this de ja vu? Didn't you spend quite a while attacking McFox for defending another player (Swiss)?

Uh,... what I did was a lot different from what McFox did. I was pressed for my opinion, so I said I disagreed. Clownbot was parroting. I wanted him to specify what he was talking about. Just because someone disagrees doesn't mean they're defending the player in question.

Sorry for triple post, but I'm assuming that the main case against me right now is that I bussed (not too sure what it means, but I assume it is some form of buddying) Frohawk.

So I'd just like to point out that from a Scum perspective, bussing Frohawk is just about the dumbest thing one could possibly do. Frohawk posted like 5 times this whole game, so it was unlikely he'd come back to defend himself (or that he would be able to) after 5 votes + my 6. I legitimately thought that this was a quick lynch orchestrated by the Mafia, in order to get a town player lynched.

So it would of been much smarter for a mafia player to cut his losses and try and hide amongst the wagon, with a 2 word vote message. Just saying.

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM!

You know that it's the obvious thing to do for a mafia player to cut his losses by bussing his teammate, so you didn't. You then pointed out that it wasn't the smartest scum choice, so you couldn't have done it. But then you recognize that we would recognize that it wasn't the smartest choice, so you did cut your losses and said it was the obvious choice for scum to make, so they wouldn't do it because it would be obvious. But then you recognized that we would recognize that you would recognize that we would recognize what you recognized, on and on forever.

Try again please.

I know you're still mad at me, but I just want to ask why

Ryker is town
Swiss is town
dancer is scum

don't count because...? I was V/LA for like have of D1, but I'd argue that that's fairly siginificant for a first-half of D1 only analysis.

I also fail to see how this doesn't count as "taking a stance."



"Bussing" is shorthand for "throwing a buddy under the bus." This is when mafia sees that one of their own is going to get lynched, so the lynchee's mafia buddies also vote him out to get in good standing with the town. "See, we voted out Frohawk too! Why would we do that as mafia?" they can say.

You should also know that lynches organized at the last second and bandwagoned immediately are the rule, not the exception, on SWF. Most lynches come out of the blue in the last 48 hours, especially on D1.

I hate that the town refuses to actually make a move for the majority of the phase. Why don't we just shorten day phases to 48 hours.

[/grumble]

Anyway, I had forgotten that you had posted V/LA and I'll give you that one.

 

[The_Guide]

Vote: Vanderzant

I don't like how he says that he wants to provoke Ryker and rPsi with his response/vote. Sure, putting pressure on someone is absolutely fine, but the wordchoice here doesn't ring with me. It sounds more like he wants them to make an innocent slip, and then jump on them for that.

 

[Swiss]

Yesterday I had strong convictions of rPSI being scum. However the person that seems to agree most with me is Vanz, who himself has quite a few allegations of scum on him. This worries me. If Vanz is scum, I do not think rPSI will be as well, and it would be more of an attempt by Vanz to buddy with me and simply get a townie lynched as opposed to him. If Vanz turns out to be town, rPSI is a good bet imho.

The case on Vanz is easily the most compelling thing put forward today.

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM!

You know that it's the obvious thing to do for a mafia player to cut his losses by bussing his teammate, so you didn't. You then pointed out that it wasn't the smartest scum choice, so you couldn't have done it. But then you recognize that we would recognize that it wasn't the smartest choice, so you did cut your losses and said it was the obvious choice for scum to make, so they wouldn't do it because it would be obvious. But then you recognized that we would recognize that you would recognize that we would recognize what you recognized, on and on forever.

Try again please.

^ That

FoS Vanz


Also FoS Hida I don't really like the regularity of your posting, or the lack of content.

rPSI has yet to post today so I have no questions for him, as of yet.



Query: V/LA? (I know it means people will be AFK, but what does it stand for?)

 

[The_Guide]

Wait a sec, that puts him at L-2...

Unvote

Just know that this can go back on you at the flip of a dime.

 

[Swiss]

Got ninja'd by the guide.

My maths puts him on L-2, we should be careful voting from here on. Glad I only fos'd him!

 

[Swiss]

/facepalm

Ninja'd again.

Ignore previous post.

 

[SwordsRbroken]

Vote: Dancer

He's done nothing really, he expressed that he would be willing to hammer, but never before expressed that he thought frohawk to be scummy.

 

[vanderzant]

I wasn't defending him. I was disagreeing with the consensus that he is scum. I never tried to fight his battles for him and intentionally tried to not give him an out that he didn't earn. I don't like coming out with why I think someone is innocent before they've defended themselves unless I'm pressed for time and want my lynch to go through instead.

The thing is, he didn't even attempt to defend himself. He just dismissed it "cos it's day 1 and everythings fluff."

Your vote does not intimidate me because it is an OMGUS vote with no real backing (Oh My God You Suck: pretty much, you voted for me because I voted for you. Uncool).

1. I don't expect to intimidate you at all. You seem to be a fairly cool cat under pressure.

2. I know what OGMUS is (it was explained earlier).

3. I didn't even vote for you, so again why would you be intimidated?

4. I voted for rPSI because of the 303030930 unanswered questions I posed on Day 1, and because I have a legitimate suspicion of him

5. Don't try to dismiss my votes by labeling it OMGUS. Oh wait!

OMGUS this is not. I hate it when people use that bull**** to try and discredit someone. Get the hell out of here with that ****.

6. Even though I didn't vote you, I did an entire post of backing on why I don't like what you're doing. My supposed inderect defending/bussing/whatever of Frohawk is basically the exact same thing you did with rPSI, except you did it far more frequently. So if we'd lynched rPSI and he'd flipped scum, I'm fairly sure you'd be in my position right now.

Nope. I think he's town because he jumped on my fluff case, but was, rightfully, calling the case on himself bunk.

So what if Swiss had just done the same thing and not responded? I don't see how not responding to stuff (especially if it's wrong) is pro town in any way shape or form.

Which is why they needed votes and why it was ridiculous that you wanted to push rPSI for "active lurking" and also why I think that one of the two are scum that you were trying to protect by pushing rPSI instead.

What's the point of putting more votes on a lurker in order to "pressure them," if they don't post for 3 days. rPSI needed more votes to make him actually respond to what others were accusing him of.

Frohawk got lynched without defending himself. I wanted to push rPSI with 4 or 5 votes (and others prepared to do so) to get him to "feel the pressure" and speak his case. Votes sitting pointlessly on lurkers who aren't going to do anything doesn't let us know anything. I agree with the sentiment of lynching a lurker, but I wanted to push the rPSI case further to see where it could lead. As we've seen, the town can get someone from 0 votes to lynched pretty darn quick, so why not explore all options fully?

Funnily enough, not enough shared my suspicions on rPSI to put him at a position where he was forced to defend himself properly. I'd really like to give him that opportunity.

Uh,... what I did was a lot different from what McFox did. I was pressed for my opinion, so I said I disagreed. Clownbot was parroting. I wanted him to specify what he was talking about. Just because someone disagrees doesn't mean they're defending the player in question.

So then why is it so hard to believe that I wasn't defending Frohawk, but rather giving my opinion that he is a new player who didn't really sound like he knew what he was doing. I know I'm wrong now, but my opinion was still legit at the time.

WIFOM WIFOM WIFOM!

LOLWUT PLZ XPLAIN

You know that it's the obvious thing to do for a mafia player to cut his losses by bussing his teammate, so you didn't. You then pointed out that it wasn't the smartest scum choice, so you couldn't have done it. But then you recognize that we would recognize that it wasn't the smartest choice, so you did cut your losses and said it was the obvious choice for scum to make, so they wouldn't do it because it would be obvious. But then you recognized that we would recognize that you would recognize that we would recognize what you recognized, on and on forever.

Try again please.

No. The obvious (and smartest) thing for a mafia player to do is to sit back in the crowd and not draw attention to himself. We can go around in this circle again if you'd like?

I consider myself one of the most active players of the game. This whole argument against me (well the frohawk part) is based off of one post where I was expressing my concern as an overly cautious townie (never thought I'd play cautiously, but I admit, I have).

I hate that the town refuses to actually make a move for the majority of the phase. Why don't we just shorten day phases to 48 hours.

I agree, we had plenty of time to pressure rPSI, but some people preffered to vote for a guy who had contributed a whopping total of 2-3 posts (Vitamin C, if you don't recall).

---

Rest of you who are voting for me please get at me with questions. I know since there are only 2 Mafia left that most of you are misguided townies, so please, let me know exactly what you want me to explain.

My time zone is different (I think) to everyone else's. It's night time now so I'll be back in form tomorrow in about 11ish hours.

 

[vanderzant]

Noticed a few more things:

Yesterday I had strong convictions of rPSI being scum. However the person that seems to agree most with me is Vanz, who himself has quite a few allegations of scum on him. This worries me. If Vanz is scum, I do not think rPSI will be as well, and it would be more of an attempt by Vanz to buddy with me and simply get a townie lynched as opposed to him. If Vanz turns out to be town, rPSI is a good bet imho.

Definitely pursue this in the unfortunate event that I am lynched today.

Vote: Vanderzant

I don't like how he says that he wants to provoke Ryker and rPsi with his response/vote. Sure, putting pressure on someone is absolutely fine, but the wordchoice here doesn't ring with me. It sounds more like he wants them to make an innocent slip, and then jump on them for that.

I planned to post that on Day 1 (I changed the end before posting today though) but hidajiremi ninja'd me with his quick hammer.

Considering this, yes I wanted to put pressure on Ryker. I've given up hope on pursuing rPSI (for now). He has a knack for not responding to me, and this post was not at all aimed at him. So you're wrong in assuming I'm trying to make rPSI slip with that post.

On that note, does anyone really believe that Ryker is going to slip any time soon? He is a far better player than most others here (IMO), so trust me when I say that I honestly don't think I'm going to get him to slip. In reality, I'm more likely to stuff up for the town, so I'm risking more in doing so. Overall, I just think that talking/questioning is pro town, and will benefit us regardless, especially if town has to take a stance on Ryker later down the track.

Even if I have all these votes on me, I'm going to continue to pressure and speak my mind on other issues regardless. I'm playing to win this for the town, even if said town wants to lynch me.

Got ninja'd by the guide.

My maths puts him on L-2, we should be careful voting from here on. Glad I only fos'd him!

Yeah I have 3 votes atm. Ryker, Katefi and Dancer. If you'd both voted I'd have 5 and be one away from a lynch :O.

 

[McFox]

Query: V/LA? (I know it means people will be AFK, but what does it stand for?)

Vacation/Limited Access

LOLWUT PLZ XPLAIN

WIFOM means predicting what scum would or would not do based on an outsider's perspective. If we grant that X will make a person suspicious to town, wouldn't scum then avoid doing X? So your first inclination is to think "Well, if anybody does X, they're obviously aren't scum, since scum would never do that." But since scum know that you know this, they might do it anyway.

It just means that you can't say what would or would not be good for scum to do, since they can do almost anything and get away with it for various reasons.

It stands for "Wine In Front Of Me;" it comes from a scene in The Princess Bride where a man has a choice on which wine to drink, the wine in front of himself, or the wine in front of the other guy. One of the glasses is poisoned (

Spoiler

Actually, they're both poisoned, but that's irrelevant

), so you'd think to choose the wine in front of the other guy, since the poison would be in front of you. But knowing that, then wouldn't you choose the glass in front of yourself? Etc.

Vote: dancer

 

[rPSIvysaur]

So, Vand, what kind of "epic defense post" are you looking for?
I'm not sure what exactly you want me to do. You just want me to "defend" myself.

 

[The_Guide]

I'm gonna echo rPsi here, Vander. I'd like to see a clear cut case on him, and whatever questions of yours he didn't answer. I think town would benefit from having his case all in one page, as it eliminates any possible misconceptions. Also, I'd get a chance to see you amazing powers of persuasion at work .

Feel free to copypasta if you begin to repeat yourself at any point.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

NB4 Crashboards eats another post.

I really, REALLY don't like the way Vand is saying I won't slip if I'm scum (especially that because he's a better player nonsense. I hate it when people go in with a mentality that someone is better than them, it only limits yourself). Why would you be trying to force a slip anyway? If you think what I've done is scummy, then it should stand as such. Trying to force a slip isn't a good thing here.

I'll respond with a longer post addressing each of your points when I'm back. Which'll be about 6 hours.

 

[vanderzant]

NB4 Crashboards eats another post.

I really, REALLY don't like the way Vand is saying I won't slip if I'm scum (especially that because he's a better player nonsense. I hate it when people go in with a mentality that someone is better than them, it only limits yourself). Why would you be trying to force a slip anyway? If you think what I've done is scummy, then it should stand as such. Trying to force a slip isn't a good thing here.

??? Maybe try reading what I said again. The_Guide tried to twist my recent post that I made @ you and say that I'm trying to make you slip.

I don't like how he says that he wants to provoke Ryker and rPsi with his response/vote. Sure, putting pressure on someone is absolutely fine, but the wordchoice here doesn't ring with me. It sounds more like he wants them to make an innocent slip, and then jump on them for that.

I retorted back that even though I don't think I'd be able to make you slip (Note: I'm not trying to make you feel good, I'm just being honest) I was not trying to force a slip in any way shape or form. I just want to keep you talking and clear up a few of the genuine concerns I had on some things you did.

I'll respond with a longer post addressing each of your points when I'm back. Which'll be about 6 hours.

Looking forward to it!

So, Vand, what kind of "epic defense post" are you looking for?
I'm not sure what exactly you want me to do. You just want me to "defend" myself.

Sorry that time has passed. I pointed out some of the contradictions you made, and I would of appreciated if you'd given your point of view on them, but you didn't. Meh, you still haven't really done much that is pro town. If you want, you can give an "epic" explanation regarding that, but it's not really that relevant atm. My vote on you was just to show that I'm serious, and that my mind hasn't really changed between today and yesterday.

I can't start a new case seeing as nothing has really changed since then. It'd be a waste of time.

I think town would benefit from having his case all in one page, as it eliminates any possible misconceptions. Also, I'd get a chance to see you amazing powers of persuasion at work

Lol good joke. I might copy paste a few points a bit later. I don't feel like pursuing it too hard at the moment.

 

[Clownbot]

I'm not getting any scum reads on Vand nor Dancer.

I looked over Fro's posts but I couldn't really find any leads.

Vote rPSI

because I don't find Ryker's defense particularly convincing and I still find him scummiest.

 

[rPSIvysaur]

I really don't see where you're going Vand. We have seven days left, and you refuse to put your case together. You happen to just go "meh" yet, you still are adamant about me. I never responded to your posts before because I never felt like they were legitimate to answer and were for the most part, comments. A lot of them also contradicted how you acted before.

I never really felt like you needed to compile all your posts, I just wanted to see what you wanted out of my defense.

FoS: Vand

On the other hand, I really want to get a deeper understanding of how McFox came to the conclusion that Dancer was scum. Rereading, it's easy to interpret Dancers posts as scum, but is it just noobtells or is it legitimate. In the meantime, I'd like to see how it plays out between those two.

Vote: Dancer

 

[vanderzant]

I really don't see where you're going Vand. We have seven days left, and you refuse to put your case together. You happen to just go "meh" yet, you still are adamant about me. I never responded to your posts before because I never felt like they were legitimate to answer and were for the most part, comments. A lot of them also contradicted how you acted before.

I never really felt like you needed to compile all your posts, I just wanted to see what you wanted out of my defense.

Nah I'm not refusing to, I meant that I just didn't really feel like doing it right then.

I intended to do it eventually, and actually, I'm almost finished (didn't take as long as I'd thought it would). Give me 10 minutes and I'll have it finished. Then you can respond to it.

Also, if you feel like pointing out some of my contradictions from Day 1, go for it. I'll be happy to clear it up with you.

On the other hand, I really want to get a deeper understanding of how McFox came to the conclusion that Dancer was scum. Rereading, it's easy to interpret Dancers posts as scum, but is it just noobtells or is it legitimate. In the meantime, I'd like to see how it plays out between those two.

Agreed, I'd like to hear from dancer as well.

 

[vanderzant]

So I thought if I'm going to do this at all, I might at as well do it properly. I'll try and do it chronologically as much as I can. Feel free to point out stuff I miss, but at least you can see what rPSI was posting and make up your own mind about him.

1. Firstly, at the beginning of the game Ryker threw his vote around quite often, yet barely ever gave reasoning, and if he did he basically contradicted himself or didn't really take a stance. Classic case of a scum trying to appear helpful, when they are in fact not doing much except for voting.

Ryker, you've squeezed all the info you need out of McFox right now. It's going too far that town can't do anything.

Unvote; Vote: Ryker

He's not helping town at all. I only voted with him because I thought it would help town get out of RVS, but now he's gone monstrous and closed minded.

The explanation here is stupid. Ryker got us out of RVS with his fluff case on Swiss. Even if it was centralised around 3 players (McFox, Swiss and Ryker) it was better than the continuous "which is better RVS or RQS." I mean, it was fair enough to say that Ryker should stop pursuing Swiss, but saying that he's "monstrous and closed minded" is waaayy out of line imo.

FoS: SwordsRbroken
He made a classic "could be wrong though" in case Ryker does end up mafia. He should not be shaky on his decisions.

SBR was more so expressing his opinion than anything. SBR called rPSI out on this post. It's worth noting that this was the first point that sparked others to suspect rPSI in the first place.

I also don't like the bit "in case Ryker does end up mafia." It seems like he thought ryker was going to get lynched, and that he was covering his own *** since he was first on the Swiss wagon. While this is assuming a hell of a lot, I don't see why it was necessary to discuss Ryker in that particular post. He could of just said "Vote SBR because he is unclear in his decisions, and he hasn't voted yet." Adding the Ryker bit is unnecessary.

My FOS and my vote make who I think is suspicious quite clear.

As I explained above, the explanation accompanying the Vote and FOS were shaky enough. Here he probably should of elaborated on why he cast his Vote and FOS, but he didn't.

Ryker was severly limiting the toDay's conversation by posting a fluff argument with McFox. McFox obviously is trying to be a good IC and give Swiss right to remain silent and acted sort of like his attorney. However, this could also be classic buddying, but I'm not quite sure if it's truly scummy.

SBR called him out massively on this post, and it's clear to see why. The whole post is basically what Frohawk did later on, in that he commented on the situation but didn't take a stance at all.

My motive was just trying to generate conversation other than Ryker's fluff war.

In fact, I'm fine with your vote one me, it's showing me that your trying to be pro-town. I didn't really see that in you before.

rPSI gives an explanation on why he's playing the way he is (lots of votes, little substance). He's trying to generate conversation. It's kind of hard to respond to someone's vote if they don't give reasons for there stance, or pose questions to the player they're voting. Like for example:

Unvote; Vote: Hidajiremi
Scum actions are scummy.

Hida made a fairly legitimate post that was in response to some suspicions I raised about him. I basically say I'm satisfied with his explanation for now, but rPSI puts a vote on him. Again, without asking for any form of explanation or posing any questions.

2. Next I'll post some of the arguments and questions I brought up, and how rPSI responded to them. Note that I've cut out some stuff that isn't incredibly relevant, since this post is going to be huge anyway.

I get a vibe from you that is such:

"Well it's Day 1 so it's a random vote anyway so there's no point in acting upon anything meaningful. We can't actually use this info until later in the game"

That is not at all my stance. Day 1 is not a random vote for the sake of random voting, it is a random vote because there is no true way to determine who is scum and who isn't. We only have "vibe's" to base this off of and a little bit of playstyle with it. Of course on Day 1 the people that do more lurking and really active ones are going to seem suspicious.

I think I was unclear in explaining this, so I'll rephrase it a bit

My take on you: "you're barely contributing/not posting enough substance"

Your excuse for this: "it's day 1, everything is random so It's pointless to post much substance.



Well the only vibe I'm getting from you is "posts alot with no substance" so you're already suspicious to me.

The next time rPSI addressed my point, he said this:

BTW, you guys think I'm not seriously contributing when people are up for there second prods. LOL

That was basically the discussion I had with him.

Next, to save myself quoting useless junk, look at posts #203-#218 (bunch of really short posts). SBR and Swiss are trying to pressure rPSI to a degree, but he keeps shrugging it off

After this, I also raised a few more points that he responded to.

rPSI, since you don't want to respond to what I wrote earlier, I'll just ask you a simple question.

If we lynch Vitamin C and he flips town, and nobody comes forward with any results the following day, how are we any closer to finding scum then we were on Day 1?

I mean, the only thing we have against VC is that he doesn't post. So it's not like we're going to be able to pick scum from town depending on who voted against him, etc.

But I'd definitely have to agree that I'd rather lynch a lurker than someone who is contributing.

How are we going to find scum after Day 1 you ask? You get legitimate reads. Having an entire Day 1 and the majority of Day 2 can get you more than just vibes, it can get you serious scum reads.

I didn't really deem your post necessary to respond to because it's just generating fluff. I really dislike fluff, it slows down the game and makes it easier for scum to slip in because during a read through, you start to miss stuff if your reading 15thousand pages of material that's entirely fluff.

I find it quite contradictory that you so readily jumped on and supported ryker's fluff case on Swiss, yet when other players make a similar (and arguably more legitamate) case on yourself, you straight away dismiss it because it's fluff. To me that is a weak excuse for not defending yourself.

And then he didn't respond to that last bit.

So that's pretty much everything. See what you think. I'm tired so I'm going to have a break for a few hours, and I'll be back later.