Newbie Mafia 5 - Game Over! Who lives happily ever after in Newbieland?!

[Clownbot]

Okay, I JUST saw Frohawk viewing this thread and he still hasn't posted for D3.

If he does that again and I see it I'm going to vote him regardless of how much time we have or whether we've heard from Kirbyo.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

I'm not about to claim yet, because I don't want to waste the oppertunity now when I could use it later to save my butt.

I am pretty sure he is town and the most likely mason of the group.

Does anyone else see the contradiction here?

The problem is that if you are town, you are giving scum great ideas on who to kill and who to let live.

This is exactly what I thought when I read SSBF's post.

SSBF, your 430 is extremely interesting. Are you sharing your NKing strategy with the other scum, since you can't talk to them outside of the thread? And where are you getting your criteria for who you think is mafia and you you think is a wolf? Is it just from connections with Kevin and Mayling, or is there something deeper? Same question to you, Sworddancer..

If I have anything significant to say about Page 30, it'll come in my next post. I haven't read it yet.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Clownbot, don't be hasty. Maybe he's just taking awhile to read and analyze, and doesn't know to post just to say he's still here.

Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

Reasoning in my previous post.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I concur with Kirbyoshi, it really bugs me how you call him the "probable mason" of the group. You're just asking for him to get nightkilled like that. How can you call anyone a mason? What makes the difference between a mason and a vanilla townie? How could you see it?

I'm quite close to voting for you as well.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

That's not the contradiction I spotted, but it is also a very valid point against him.

Guus, you should hop on. It'll only be L-2.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

@Kirbyoshi: It's just connections to KevinM and Mayling that I'm going off of. Mayling was mafia, and tried to get Hawk lynched, so I'm assuming that Hawk isn't mafia. KevinM was a werewolf, and he tried to get you lynched, so I'm assuming that you're not a werewolf.

Also guys you can just leave the period out of name, I put it there because Sworddancer was already taken and the period wasn't that noticeable.

I just noticed how stupid it looks when someone ends a sentence with my name. >.>

 

[Jim Morrison]

That's not the contradiction I spotted, but it is also a very valid point against him.

Guus, you should hop on. It'll only be L-2.

There's 2 scum, I'd rather not risk a quick lynch.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Also, I'm interested in hearing Fan answer these questions.

Fan, I have another question for you. In post 430 you said:

His relatively scummy posts seems to strike me a bit as a werewolf because none of his post were really outlanish, but they don't really help much.

He hasn't really been contributing as much as I liked him to do, and he is somewhat inactive. However, he hasn't made any posts that really strikes me as a likely Mafia member, because they were never truly outlanish and out of control. A werewolf in my opinion makes himself susipicous by a lack of posting and uninteresting when he does post, not by making himself look like a fool.

How do you figure? Why is this a werewolf characteristic and not a mafia characteristic?

 

[Kirbyoshi]

I think he's making too many assumptions based on who has already flipped Mafia/Wolf. Those are simply Kevin's and Mayling's playstyles, and are not at all indicative of which of the other scum belongs to which faction.

But I think all this talk about who is of which scum faction is detracting from actual scumhunting. As long as we lynch a scum toDay, we should be ok, no matter which faction they are. Actually, that's another point against SSBF, since he is the main proponent of "sorting scum."

Also, I like typing Sworddancer., Sworddancer..

 

[Jim Morrison]

Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan

untill you give a reasonable defence as to why you give all these possible scenarios and who can be mason/mafia/werewolf, I'm fine with a vote on you.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Guus, what in Sworddancer.'s and my most recent posts changed your mind about wanting to vote SSBF?

 

[Jim Morrison]

But I think all this talk about who is of which scum faction is detracting from actual scumhunting. As long as we lynch a scum toDay, we should be ok, no matter which faction they are. Actually, that's another point against SSBF, since he is the main proponent of "sorting scum."

This part.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

ok cool man.

 

[Xiivi]

Deadline has been set for April 2nd, 2010 11:59PM EST.

It's takes 4/6 to lynch!

Day 3 Vote Count 2:​

Clownbot: (0)
guus: (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan: Kirbyoshi, guus ( )
Sworddancer.: (0)
xxFrohawkxx: Sworddancer.,Super Smash Bros. Fan ( )
Kirbyoshi: (0)

Not Voting: Clownbot, xxFrohawkxx ( )

 

[Deleted member]

For now, I'll remove my FoS on Kirby, since he finally made an significant post today. He beter keep it up, thought.

Does anyone else see the contradiction here?

I'm probably going to make myself a fool after saying this, but I haven't really seen anything that would be contridicting myself. If I was contridicting myself, I would have claimed, something that I explained before, is pointless to do early in the game. All I was saying in the next post was my opinion. I had to basically re-read (And almost managed an huge post before the tab disappeared) the entire game from the very beginning before coming to an conclusion.

I concur with Kirbyoshi, it really bugs me how you call him the "probable mason" of the group. You're just asking for him to get nightkilled like that. How can you call anyone a mason? What makes the difference between a mason and a vanilla townie? How could you see it?

How I can tell that anyone is a mason is when most of his posts has contributed very well to the game and when it's hard to disagree with him.

What makes the difference between a mason and a vanilla townie is when this. A vanilla townie posts are mostly good, but there are some that aren't really too special to look at, but overall, barely scummy at all. A mason does not have that trait and plays the game near flawlessly. I've only managed to disagree with one post from Sworddancer overall, even thought I've never responded to that post litterally. I see it through looking at the entire thread and how they progress during the game, which I can't really explain much on.

Also guys you can just leave the period out of name, I put it there because Sworddancer was already taken and the period wasn't that noticeable.

Thanks for saying that. I really did not like doing that at all.

How do you figure? Why is this a werewolf characteristic and not a mafia characteristic?

Really wish I could answer that honestly, but I can't. The characteristic for both a werewolf and mafia in my opinion basically flipped overnight.

The question should be "Why is this a mafia characteristic and now a werewolf characteristic?". In this case, I can actually answer it.

A mafia characteristic is technically someone who tends to play better at the game and use the role well. They don't really make any outlanish post that makes it somewhat obvious that they are scum, but some Mafia members don't really make many significant post that is important of the game.

Going back into Day 1, Guus wanted to get rid of Frown because he was the least informative person in this game while he was pushing a case on him. Now Frown was town and all. So you might be right that this is more of a townie laziness then a mafia trait. But let's be honest, he was really inactive during the game. This is why I am assuming Kirbyoshi is Mafia, he hasn't really made any significant post until just today and he'll be my next lynch target on Day 4, providing he doesn't get lynched on Day 3, doesn't die during Night 3, and hasn't really made anymore significant post.

I figure xxFrohawkxx is has a werewolf role.. Because seriously, none of his posts are really that good, plus he has made some very outlanish statements that wasn't really necessary. That's why I'm pushing a case on him right now on Day 3.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I'm probably going to make myself a fool after saying this, but I haven't really seen anything that would be contridicting myself. If I was contridicting myself, I would have claimed, something that I explained before, is pointless to do early in the game.

You wouldn't want to claim yourself, because it could save your behind later on, but yet you go out telling people that he is the most likely candidate for being a mason, basically ruining HIS chance to claim on later in the game.

Regarding my criteria for who is mafia and who is wolf, that's hard to answer without screwing up. The best answer I can give is that it's something that I thought up of during the course of the game and analyzing the game itself. Defindently not as easy as it looks.

Screwing up what? Not letting trough that you're pulling balony out of your ***? Also, the answer is pretty vague. "Yea, I thought of it during the whole game." What was the point where you were sure enough to announce it publicly?

How I can tell that anyone is a mason is when most of his posts has contributed very well to the game and when it's hard to disagree with him.

What makes the difference between a mason and a vanilla townie is when this. A vanilla townie posts are mostly good, but there are some that aren't really too special to look at, but overall, barely scummy at all. A mason does not have that trait and plays the game near flawlessly. I've only managed to disagree with one post from Sworddancer overall, even thought I've never responded to that post litterally. I see it through looking at the entire thread and how they progress during the game, which I can't really explain much on.

I really don't get how this works. Frown was a monk (kind of the same as a mason) but he made lousy posts (if any), so did SRB. Also, scum tends to play good in games, ESPECIALLY because of this. It makes them look good and gives them +town points. So far, the 2 scum we found as nightkills didn't play bad at all. They were fairly good.
I just can't understand how you can think someone making good posts would be mason. As if vanillas are not that good. Also, werewolves CAN be mason.

The question should be "Why is this a mafia characteristic and now a werewolf characteristic?". In this case, I can actually answer it.

A mafia characteristic is technically someone who tends to play better at the game and use the role well. They don't really make any outlanish post that makes it somewhat obvious that they are scum, but some Mafia members don't really make many significant post that is important of the game.

Going back into Day 1, Guus wanted to get rid of Frown because he was the least informative person in this game while he was pushing a case on him. Now Frown was town and all. So you might be right that this is more of a townie laziness then a mafia trait. But let's be honest, he was really inactive during the game. This is why I am assuming Kirbyoshi is Mafia, he hasn't really made any significant post until just today and he'll be my next lynch target on Day 4, providing he doesn't get lynched on Day 3, doesn't die during Night 3, and hasn't really made anymore significant post.

That's a nice fluffy post, but you didn't answer the question, not even the one you formulated.
""Why is this a mafia characteristic and now a werewolf characteristic?""
"A mafia characteristic is technically someone who tends to play better at the game and use the role well. They don't really make any outlanish post that makes it somewhat obvious that they are scum, but some Mafia members don't really make many significant post that is important of the game."
How does THAT answer the question of why it would first be a werewolf trait and then a mafia trait (or vice versa). It just states what could be a scum trait (what you said could easily be replaced by werewolves). You have to realize they are both scum. They are just different factions, but they still have the same power to nightkill, nothing else.

I figure xxFrohawkxx is has a werewolf role.. Because seriously, none of his posts are really that good, plus he has made some very outlanish statements that wasn't really necessary. That's why I'm pushing a case on him right now on Day 3.

Let's see.

Because seriously, none of his posts are really that good, plus he has made some very outlanish statements that wasn't really necessary.

A mafia characteristic is technically someone who tends to play better at the game and use the role well. They don't really make any outlanish post that makes it somewhat obvious that they are scum, but some Mafia members don't really make many significant post that is important of the game.

Gee, that doesn't seem right. Sure, the "but" part after that seems nice, but you don't say that mafia actually would make bad posts.

However, Frohawk is totally ruining the game by not posting since the start of the day. I don't want to waste our lynch on someone who I can't really tell anything about, but at the same time could easily be scum.

All in all, SSBF, I am not impressed by your defense, my vote stays.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

But I think all this talk about who is of which scum faction is detracting from actual scumhunting. As long as we lynch a scum toDay, we should be ok, no matter which faction they are. Actually, that's another point against SSBF, since he is the main proponent of "sorting scum."

That's not necessarerly true, Kirbyoshi. "Sorting scum" can be helpful towards the town because of the masons.

If the other werewolf is lynched toDay, then we can have the masons roleclaim the next Day which will narrow the suspects left to two (since there will only be one night kill at that point).

However, that's assuming that one of the masons isn't a werewolf and/or one of the masons isn't night killed. Just having one mason live to see the next Day will do good, but it won't be as good as having both.

Also, I like typing Sworddancer., Sworddancer..

You did that on purpose, jerk.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

SSBF, why would Wolves make "outlandish posts," but Mafia would not?

And why did you make that post so hard to read by typing it all in bold face?

 

[Deleted member]

SSBF, why would Wolves make "outlandish posts," but Mafia would not?

And why did you make that post so hard to read by typing it all in bold face?

@Kirbyoshi: This is just from what I can tell from this game, but here is why Werewolves would make more outlanish posts then Mafia members.

Like Guus and Sworddancer said, they can also be masons, so if we choose to lynch an mason, we have to keep in mind that there is an 50/50 chance that the lynch will fall into Mafia's favor.

Because masons are given the ability to talk to each other, some do take for granted of the role, thus hurting their performance in the game overall. xxFrohawkxx is a possible mason, but even if he is, he can be a werewolf. We have one Mafia and one Werewolf left, and whoever is the werewolf has to be a mason.

Sworddancer's excellent post is why I believe he's a townie Mason and xxFrohawkxx's outlanish posts indicates a possible werewolf Mason.

And the bolded words was a stupid thing in my behalf that I shouldn't have done, sorry about that. I was originally going to put it inside the quote, but I decided to respose to the posts outside of the quote and I wasn't thinking when I bolded those words.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

The remaining Wolf doesn't have to be a Mason, and neither Mason has to be a Wolf.

 

[Deleted member]

@Kirbyoshi: I should have clarify myself in there that it's a possible circumstance.

 

[Deleted member]

Let's say you have the deciding vote on who will be lynched. Who would it be and why?

 

[Clownbot]

Frohawk because he badly needs to post and when he did post he really didn't do much.

 

[Deleted member]

@Clownbot: He also got prodded due to lack of activity, another strike against him.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

whoever is the werewolf has to be a mason.

Explain this please? I think I finally see where you're coming from. Still don't agree, but at least I think I understand. I'll tell you what I think you're saying when you explain the above quote.

 

[Deleted member]

Explain this please? I think I finally see where you're coming from. Still don't agree, but at least I think I understand. I'll tell you what I think you're saying when you explain the above quote.

I'm not saying I'm sure this is guarateen, but remember, this is possible. If we were to lynch an Mason, keep in mind that it is possible that we might have lynched an Werewolf, since they can be used for the role.

While lynching an Mason is dangerous, it can be beneficial as well, providing if we pull the right string.

This is why I'm suggesting that a mason can be a werewolf. They can be able to actually talk to an townie and form an alliance with them. Smart townies don't do that. They will side with the town here.

We all need to keep this in mind. It's not confirmed that there is an mason werewolf among us, but if Frohawk is an werewolf, chances are, he is also a mason who thinks that everyone is going to believe him and he can win the game with minimal effort. Lazy townies and especially lazy masons are unacceptable in the game.

Oh and another point. Guus said in #456 that he didn't want to vote for Frohawk because he wasn't really saying anything and thus he couldn't get an read on him. Now his point is valid, but you have to take into consideration that you have to take into account that lack of activity, while shouldn't be the deciding factor, must be an major factor in voting someone as well.

However, he also makes himself sound like a hypocrite. Guus said on that same post that he won't vote for someone just because the person hasn't posted much, but in Day 1, he has complained about him not getting an decent lead on a person multiple times and that he hasn't gotten enough information.

 

[Clownbot]

So earlier whoever the last werewolf was HAD to be a mason and now it's only a possibility?

>_>

 

[Xiivi]

Deadline has been set for April 2nd, 2010 11:59PM EST.

It's takes 4/6 to lynch!

Day 3 Vote Count 3:​

Clownbot: (0)
guus: (0)
Super Smash Bros. Fan: Kirbyoshi, guus ( )
Sworddancer.: (0)
xxFrohawkxx: Sworddancer.,Super Smash Bros. Fan ( )
Kirbyoshi: (0)

Not Voting: Clownbot, xxFrohawkxx ( )

xxFrohawkxx has not responded to his most recent prod-attempt. If he does not respond in 24 hours he will be replaced. If no replacement is found he will be modkilled.

 

[#HBC | Dancer]

Fan, are you suggesting that it might be a good idea to try to lynch someone who we think is a mason because they might also be a wolf?

Also to answer your question, I would vote out Hawk since he has literally contributed nothing of significance to the discussion.

I really wish he would post, it's hard to keep the discussion up when people don't even bother to respond to the accusations made against them.

 

[Deleted member]

@Clownbot: In Guus's defense, he did say that a mason doesn't have to be the remaining werewolf earlier. That was a mistake on my part, but the way Frohawk was acting is defindently Werewolf-like.

@Sworddancer: Not at all. As a matter of fact, all I'm saying that it is possible that a werewolf might be one of our masons. If he is Mason, he is really is taking this game for granted and I'm really surprised he managed to live this long.

 

[Deleted member]

xxFrohawkxx is on the forum. If he's been on the forum for the past days he's been missing, then this is just insanely lazy. This is coming out from a person who've made multiple outlanish posts on Day 1 and Day 2. Makes me wonder if he said "Screw this game, I'm gonna get myself modkilled!" in secret.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

SSBF, you did originally say that the last wolf HAD to be a mason in the post I quoted. I think that more likely comes from an inside knowledge of the setup than from ignorance.

Frohawk strikes me less as scum and more as a newbie who needs more work than others to get accustomed to Mafia (for the other end of the spectrum, see Sworddancer.).

SSBF, I don't want to see you criticizing other people's grammar until you clean yours up.

 

[xxFrohawkxx]

Sorry for my absence but I have been busy lately. School,church and what not.

I don't understand what your saying smash.

"While lynching an Mason is dangerous, it can be beneficial as well, providing if we pull the right string."

Are you saying that if we kill a mason and he is town its a good thing? There are TWO scum left and that means if we kill a mason, and he's town. The scum can take out two townies and then were all boned.

Why even bring up the mason theory when most people aren't going to say there role?

It's like maybe your a mason...

And since that's a possiblity would it be easier to try to find Mafia? Since You already have one guy out of the way?

If that wasn't the case finding masons would be darn near impossible.

 

[Jim Morrison]

I want SSBF dead now, still for the same reasons. He hasn't said anything to change my mind, and his theory of lynching masons sounds pretty silly. It could work though, but why would masons claim if they know you would want to lynch them. ESPECIALLY if they are scum?

People need to take a stance and maybe risk something by voting on someone (oh wow)

And yea, I'm fine with people who are pretty inactive on day 1, but that's definitly not my priority on the possible last day.

 

[Clownbot]

If I vote one of the only two people that are garnering suspicion I'd be putting them at L-1 which I really don't want to be doing. We still have some time here, folks.

 

[Deleted member]

@Clownbot: Putting someone at L-1 isn't that much of a problem as you think. After you, only xxFrohawkxx is left to vote and he'll obviously go for me. Then only after that will we have to bug other players to vote for either me or xxFrohawkxx.

@Guus: That is a good suggestion, but 2/3 of the remaining players have already voted. Let's say that Clownbot votes for Frohawk and Frohawk votes for me. Then me and Frohawk would be an L-1. Then we would have to convince other people who are voting to either me or Frohawk to vote for the person their against.

 

[Clownbot]

Well, whoever's on the opposing side of my vote could easily unvote and hammer.

 

[Clownbot]

Frohawk, could you tell us what you're really feeling about the game right now?

You know, who's suspicious to you, anything you have to say about the suspicion you've received? Anything else of importance to share with us? You missed being replaced/modkilled by a hair and your latest post just wasn't all that dazzling. Your next doesn't have to be much, just bring us up to speed on what you think about everyone, etc.

Also @Kirbyo

Explain this please? I think I finally see where you're coming from. Still don't agree, but at least I think I understand. I'll tell you what I think you're saying when you explain the above quote.

I don't believe you've done this yet.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

Ah yes, thanks for reminding me Clownbot.

Where I thought SSBF was coming from is that he thinks that it is more likely than not we have a wolfmason, and therefore, 2 people that that particular player at least used to be able to talk out of thread with. That player has/had to post things that would please both the other wolf AND the other mason. Therefore, the wolfmason would be more likely to post "outlandish" things. This no longer would apply to mafiamonks, because both monks are dead.

 

[Kirbyoshi]

EBWOP: Just to clarify, I do not agree with this. This is simply where I thought SSBF was coming from.