Newbie Mafia 14 - Ovah?!?

[#HBC | Ryker]

Chainsaw defense is a hardcore tell on the person chainsawing if the person being chainsawed for flips scum.

It's a signifigantly weaker tell on the person being chainsawed for if the chainsawer flips scum.


Pre-flip it's just a scumtell on the chainsawer and a connection.



@Serin: Where be you? Concise list of reads, now.

It's a COMPLETELY WIFOM tell. I could be town defending X1 from your ****ing terrible logic, but X1 could still be scum you were bussing (he's not). I could be scum and defending X1 from your ****ing terrible logic and X1 could be town who I defended for the protown points. I could be town defending X1 from your ****ing terrible logic and he could be town who you tried to mislynch. I could be scum defending X1 from your terrible ****ing logic and X1 could be my scummate. When your logic is COMPLETELY ****ING TERRIBLE, there's no tell to be gained other than you are scummy for trying to push a bull**** wagon.

I typed this **** up from a ****ing iPod, so let me ask everyone else in the game, did Adum actually have a case on X1 or is he scum?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Chainsawing is a scum trick, not a scum tell. It's only a chainsaw when it's a scummate defending a scummate (or masons or third party or some other bull****). Other than that it's defending a player from bad accusations. You're automatically assigning alignments on no basis. I am PERFECTLY okay with you dying.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I'd honestly be okay with myself dying, but that doesn't help prove much aside from Adumb. So why not lynch him instead?

 

[Kantrip]

Are you that done with this game, Tery?

I agree with Ryker's iPod post. I don't think chainsawing is a scumtell at all. Most "tells" are so filled with WIFOM in the first place, it's not even funny.

 

[Kantrip]

Tery, I'm pretty sure you're town, I just don't know what you're doing

Where does everyone who is not on the adum wagon stand wrt lynching him toDay?

@Tery, MARaTHonman, Serin, Felipe, do you think scum lies in X1/Ryker/adum?

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Yes. Obviously.

 

[Kantrip]

I'm not sure about both of them, but at least one of the IC's is scum. Another one of them is neighbour.

Unvote

Vote: adumbrodeus.

Claim time?

 

[Kantrip]

Sorry, not IC's but active players.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm not sure about both of them, but at least one of the IC's is scum. Another one of them is neighbour.

Unvote

Vote: adumbrodeus.

Claim time?

I hope to god that you aren't meta gaming. The roles will have been randomly generated. That statement can't possibly be true.

 

[Kantrip]

I meant active players. I'm still going off the Night ending early with no NK meaning Neighbour succesfully protected scum's NK attempt. This means everyone sent in their night actions before the night ended.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Night action result / speculation won't really help us now that we're more or less understanding that every action was sent in.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Eh? I don't follow.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Eh? I don't follow.

Kantrip means he believes at least a town PR / Mafia is one of the active players by the speculation that the Neightbor successfully protected the Mafia kill target during Night 1.

 

[adumbrodeus]

It's a COMPLETELY WIFOM tell. I could be town defending X1 from your ****ing terrible logic, but X1 could still be scum you were bussing (he's not). I could be scum and defending X1 from your ****ing terrible logic and X1 could be town who I defended for the protown points. I could be town defending X1 from your ****ing terrible logic and he could be town who you tried to mislynch. I could be scum defending X1 from your terrible ****ing logic and X1 could be my scummate. When your logic is COMPLETELY ****ING TERRIBLE, there's no tell to be gained other than you are scummy for trying to push a bull**** wagon.

I typed this **** up from a ****ing iPod, so let me ask everyone else in the game, did Adum actually have a case on X1 or is he scum?

How is it wiform? Town has no reason to chainsaw.


It's a blatent chainsaw because you're choosing to attack me without giving either a case for why X1 is town or bothering to explain why my case on him was scummy.

You're just attacking me because I attacked x1, saying my case was bad and that x1 is town is one thing. Saying my case is scummy and explaining why is another. Saying my case is scummy and x1 is obvioustown with no explanation is a clear chainsaw.


But the scum defending town x1 for pro-town points is why it's a minor tell, it's certainly possible, hence it should be taken in conjunction with other actions.

Are you that done with this game, Tery?

I agree with Ryker's iPod post. I don't think chainsawing is a scumtell at all. Most "tells" are so filled with WIFOM in the first place, it's not even funny.

Learn what wiform is first.

This isn't wiform because there's no reason for town to do it, at least not experienced town. Instead chainsawing is something that it's to scum's advantage to get away with if they can.


Ryker is good at convincing people of things, especially weaker players, and right now I'm the only person in the game whose calling him out on his bs.

Look at his record, he's misrepresenting WIFORM now.

He lied about the fact that ending the deadline early meant that all actions were in. I'd link a game with the exact same situation where he didn't raise that objection in the thread if it were allowed, so you'll have to find it yourself.


He's obviously attempting to use the fact that this is a newbie game to shovel BS mafia theory to make the game easy for him.

X1 isn't present (and quite possibly his scumbuddy), Tery isn't good enough to notice let alone call him out. That leaves me, and look who he's pushing.


Beyond that, we're his stances or explanations for anything? He hasn't even explained why he's pushing HIS SOLE SCUMREAD, or why he thinks x1 is town whose his sole townread.



Seriously kantrip, why you eating his BS?

 

[Kantrip]

I know what WIFOM is. I know the source, too. I even have the monologue memorized, as I did the scene for theatre last year. That aside: Chainsaw defense, as you described it, could easily be done by town. Point out to me which part of the post Ryker presented is false, rather than just claiming that it is.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It's a blatent chainsaw because you're choosing to attack me without giving either a case for why X1 is town or bothering to explain why my case on him was scummy.

I've already said multiple times that your case on X1 is garbage because it's a hell of a reach. The reason you're scum is because every case you've pushed all game has been trash garbage. Now you're misrepresenting my posts. It adds to the pile, so dig yourself deeper, my friend.

You're just attacking me because I attacked x1, saying my case was bad and that x1 is town is one thing. Saying my case is scummy and explaining why is another. Saying my case is scummy and x1 is obvioustown with no explanation is a clear chainsaw.

I'm assaulting you because the only things of substance that you've done this game are your cases on X1 and myself. BOTH of which are full of holes that an elementary school student could point out. Are you scum or are you just stupid? I'd rather bank on the IC having some measure of intelligence, so I won't be insulting you by letting you live another phase.

This isn't wiform because there's no reason for town to do it, at least not experienced town. Instead chainsawing is something that it's to scum's advantage to get away with if they can.

It's called defense of a player you think is town from a scummy player.

Or you could call it an attack on my scum pick.

Both of those are reasons town HAS done it, so take your WIFOM and stick it up your ***.

Ryker is good at convincing people of things, especially weaker players, and right now I'm the only person in the game whose calling him out on his bs.

Adum, you should know by now, you're very good at saying things that NO ONE ELSE IN DGAMES AGREES WITH! Now you're just sticking a snake in my boot. I'm good at convincing people of things. So what? That's not a scum tell.

Look at his record, he's misrepresenting WIFORM now.

People dabble in WIFOM. Bad players drown in it. I do the ****ing backstroke. WIFOM is a subject I know backward and forward and if you want to challenge me on what is and isn't WIFOM, be my guest. I will tear you limb from limb.

He lied about the fact that ending the deadline early meant that all actions were in. I'd link a game with the exact same situation where he didn't raise that objection in the thread if it were allowed, so you'll have to find it yourself.

Whaaaaaa? Did the mod ever verify your bull**** meta gaming? I don't believe he did, so if I were you, I'd shut the **** up on this point. Why in the WORLD would I, as an IC, steer the town wrong on a meta game aspect, even as scum. That would be a disservice to anyone who signed up.

@Mod - Will you verify whether or not the day started before deadline meaning that if it did, all actions would have been sent in?

He's obviously attempting to use the fact that this is a newbie game to shovel BS mafia theory to make the game easy for him.

That. Is. Bull****.

I don't sign up as an IC because I want more players running around being ********. I want you to point out where and why in each case that my mafia theory is bull**** because there isn't ONE place where that has happened.

From that quote, you are now a dead man walking. No one other than you is being lynched.

X1 isn't present (and quite possibly his scumbuddy), Tery isn't good enough to notice let alone call him out. That leaves me, and look who he's pushing.

..... That is not a scum tell. That's COMPLETE WIFOM! You're on the chopping block because you can't string together four logically sound posts and you're just continuing the bull****.

Beyond that, we're his stances or explanations for anything? He hasn't even explained why he's pushing HIS SOLE SCUMREAD, or why he thinks x1 is town whose his sole townread.

What? You have my scum reads. YOU DON'T NEED MY TOWNREADS! You don't have explanations when it doesn't suit me to give them. I mean, the reaction I got from you by not making overt my plans was plain golden and proof that playing a hand close to the vest can work. It's not the best plan for all players or even one player in every situation, but it's working here so far.

Seriously kantrip, why you eating his BS?

Seriously guys, can we shut him up already?

 

[Kantrip]

With a case like that, lol. This seems pretty simple to me. Adum's lynch will give us substantial reads regardless of flip.

He should probably claim, though. We dob't want to be lynching a pr.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Day 2 - Votecount #4:

---

Voted: |

Voting:​

| Votes:
|
adum |

Ryker, felipe_5959, Kantrip​

|

3 / 5​

Ryker |

MARaTHonman, adumbrodeus​

|

2 / 5​

---

Not voting: X1-12, o-Serin-o, Terywj;
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch!​

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Prodding X1-12, MARaTHonman and o-Serin-o;

 

[X1-12]

Will read up today.

 

[adumbrodeus]

That. Is. Bull****.

I don't sign up as an IC because I want more players running around being ********. I want you to point out where and why in each case that my mafia theory is bull**** because there isn't ONE place where that has happened.

From that quote, you are now a dead man walking. No one other than you is being lynched.

Obviously you did.

Right here.

People bend rules a lot. It happens, I really don't give a ****. I personally attack Gheb because it's fun and to demonstrate you have no proof that he's a half decent mod.

YOU have no plank to build this assumption from without first checking with Gheb on the information you posted. As an IC, all you'll do is confuse people if you're wrong, see how I asked Gheb about scum no kill prior to explaining what I was on about.

This tangent, however, gets us absolutely nowhere. Your pride can stay wounded or whatever and you can stop pushing discussion away from matters of consequence. Namely you being scum.

****ing liar. And that's exactly what you're gonna do, get more players running pants on their head ********.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I've already said multiple times that your case on X1 is garbage because it's a hell of a reach. The reason you're scum is because every case you've pushed all game has been trash garbage. Now you're misrepresenting my posts. It adds to the pile, so dig yourself deeper, my friend.

You haven't explained why it's a SCUMMY REACH. There's a difference.

It's called defense of a player you think is town from a scummy player.

Or you could call it an attack on my scum pick.

Both of those are reasons town HAS done it, so take your WIFOM and stick it up your ***.

Why is x1 town, why is my reach on him scum? That's the point that makes it a chainsaw.

Hell you haven't even explained why its a reach for God's sake.

Adum, you should know by now, you're very good at saying things that NO ONE ELSE IN DGAMES AGREES WITH! Now you're just sticking a snake in my boot. I'm good at convincing people of things. So what? That's not a scum tell.

No, but it means when there's bad players you can get away with total BS.

People dabble in WIFOM. Bad players drown in it. I do the ****ing backstroke. WIFOM is a subject I know backward and forward and if you want to challenge me on what is and isn't WIFOM, be my guest. I will tear you limb from limb.

WIFORM only comes up when there's looping reasoning, there is NO town incentive for chainsawing.

Whaaaaaa? Did the mod ever verify your bull**** meta gaming? I don't believe he did, so if I were you, I'd shut the **** up on this point. Why in the WORLD would I, as an IC, steer the town wrong on a meta game aspect, even as scum. That would be a disservice to anyone who signed up.

@Mod - Will you verify whether or not the day started before deadline meaning that if it did, all actions would have been sent in?

Of course the mod can't directly say it, but you're claiming that the mod would accelerate the deadline early, in defiance of everything the game is required to function, before the actions are in. You're essentially saying the game is a crapshoot, Gheb tossing in a ranom jester given the fact that this is an open game would be less of a defiance.

What? You have my scum reads. YOU DON'T NEED MY TOWNREADS! You don't have explanations when it doesn't suit me to give them. I mean, the reaction I got from you by not making overt my plans was plain golden and proof that playing a hand close to the vest can work. It's not the best plan for all players or even one player in every situation, but it's working here so far.

You're trying not to get committed so you can lynch anyone. Trying to limit information from your slot IS a scumtell.

With a case like that, lol. This seems pretty simple to me. Adum's lynch will give us substantial reads regardless of flip.

He should probably claim, though. We dob't want to be lynching a pr.

Seriously, have you fact-checked anything I said? If nothing else, the fact that ryker BLATENTLY LIED ABOUT MAFIA THEORY should illustrate my point.

 

[adumbrodeus]

You know ryker, this was EXACTLY why gheb didn't want you and swiss ICing together, pushing bull exactly like this to the newbies.

 

[X1-12]

Have read up now

Vote: Adumbrodeus

Claim please.

 

[X1-12]

Also Tery what do you think of Kantrip's vote on me in #518 - Do you feel it was well reasoned? Do you feel Kantrip was avoiding the wagons which were forming?

 

[o-Serin-o]

Laptop is out of commission ATM.

Plus I have schoolwork.

Sorry for not saying so. I'll post tonight.

 

[MARaTHonman]

I will also be reading and posting later tonight.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I will be dead later tonight.

 

[MARaTHonman]

@Kantrip I would rather lynch Ryker than Adum. Both of their posts' lately have been very hostile at each other, so I've made my scumread on Ryker based on the posts before that whole argument. Post #495 explains why I think Ryker is scum.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

What does hostility have to do with alignment? Is there a specific source of influence?

 

[MARaTHonman]

I don't think it's indicative of alignment, I just felt like I got more info from the earlier posts.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Currently salvaging another game. I'll be here later,

 

[MARaTHonman]

Any thoughts Tery, on what I posted about Ryker and X1?

 

[o-Serin-o]

Vote: Ryker

Honestly, I was willing to vote Ryker or Tery, but due to what I've just read from Adumb and Ryker, I can feel better about myself for voting him.

I have also never seen Ryker justify his answers with other posts, unless I'm just overlooking something. Rather, he decides to make a claim on what you've said and move on to the next. That's some bull**** to me.

But what do I know.

 

[o-Serin-o]

I've also been seeing Ryker defend X1 on numerous occasions as well. And the fact that X1 just voted in favor of Ryker's argument towards Adumb doesn't help his case either way.

Either Ryker or X1 are scum.

 

[o-Serin-o]

I have a theory, but won't say yet. Depends on what happens in the next few hours or so. I don't wanna go farther than necessary.

 

[MARaTHonman]

Tery, what are your thoughts? Who are your scum picks?

 

[MARaTHonman]

I likely will not be able to post before the deadline.

@Ryker I know that this is a tired subject, but I still have questions about your obv-town claim with x1. At first all I wanted to know was why you thought that, but know I would like to hear your reasoning on why you will not explain that position, if only from the standpoint of a noob trying to learn more about Mafia. It just seems like making a strong case with evidence would help to narrow down the scum suspects. Maybe there is an obvious reason that I'm missing, but right now I don't see it.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Oh. I won't be able to make this deadline...

 

[Kantrip]

Cool, some other people are posting.

Serin, what are your thoughts on adum and why didn't you address him or his lynch? Do you disagree with it, or would you rather just lynch Ryker more? If so, why?

MARaTHonman, forgive me if you've stated this before, but what are you drawing your Ryker and adum reads from prior to this heated discussion? Content from Day 1, I assume? Could you explain your reads on them, please?

Tery, are you able to give your thoughts on the wagon choices right now? Which of them are you most inclined to join?