Q&A New to Sheik? Look here to learn how to get started/Need help with Sheik? Ask your questions here.

[{Kyro}]

All right, I got it, thanks for the input

 

[Daymaster]

What do you guys do to get around characters like Rosalina's Up Air Juggling? Since Sheik's Dair is trash, even if they can't technically true-combo them, we don't have any options to challenge the attack at all. I know we can escape with BF and jump, but is there anything else?

 

[{Kyro}]

What do you guys do to get around characters like Rosalina's Up Air Juggling? Since Sheik's Dair is trash, even if they can't technically true-combo them, we don't have any options to challenge the attack at all. I know we can escape with BF and jump, but is there anything else?

Air dodge
Also, air stalling down air is super useful as a mix-up

 

[Simikins]

What do you guys do to get around characters like Rosalina's Up Air Juggling? Since Sheik's Dair is trash, even if they can't technically true-combo them, we don't have any options to challenge the attack at all. I know we can escape with BF and jump, but is there anything else?

BF the hell outta there the moment your hitstun ends. Like please, they will wait for the airdodge. Get out of there.

Dair is bad to do to try and challenge, as rosalina upair is a disjoint, so it won't even trade, you'll just die. The slow down air is ehhhh... Can work, but it'll only work once. Gets beaten most of the time.
I like to BF away then dair to get back down, if there is a gap in the platforms I can go through. Then they can't follow with a dair.

Make sure you mix it up though. Normally use BF, but sometimes jump. If they're the kind of person who'll go straight for the upair bf or airdodge. Don't airdodge much though, as an airdodge read on their part can net them a kill vs you at 0. Airdodge very rarely, only as a mixup.


If you happen to have the grenade shell item in hand, throw it down, wait a bit, then down air. The nade shell won't hit them, but it'll neutralise rosa's hitbox allowing for your dair to hit. Delay the dair a bit so you don't just grab the grenade shell with it and die.



tl;dr BF away, airdodge rarely.

 

[onlyaaron17]

I've seen Void and Zero do this option on foxes, because he is a fast faller. I'm not sure if im landing with nair correctly, or if i'm missing the timing to auto-cancel, or if dash is being buffered, but what exactly is Zero doing, to land the Soft nair, to grab?
http://i.giphy.com/k1sIGywRYhv7W.gif

 

[WondrousMoose]

I've seen Void and Zero do this option on foxes, because he is a fast faller. I'm not sure if im landing with nair correctly, or if i'm missing the timing to auto-cancel, or if dash is being buffered, but what exactly is Zero doing, to land the Soft nair, to grab?
http://i.giphy.com/k1sIGywRYhv7W.gif

You input Nair as soon as you leave the ground in a short hop and make sure that you're far enough away from the opponent that you don't hit them until you're on your way down. Some of her better followups are a grab at low percents as you saw there or a Bouncing Fish at high percents.

 

[et3rnal]

Does each single thrown needle take a separate place in the stale queue? And does a full charge of needles take 6 places or just 1?

 

[{Kyro}]

Does each single thrown needle take a separate place in the stale queue? And does a full charge of needles take 6 places or just 1?

All needles count as one move, like a multi hit

 

[Cold_Ninja_Emperor]

does she still have guaranteed move or their are all gone

 

[Simikins]

does she still have guaranteed move or their are all gone

Of course she still has lots of guaranteed combos, just a few things have been changed and removed.

 

[Cold_Ninja_Emperor]

what are those guaranteed hit

 

[Ꮤhisker]

So, I'm totally on the Istudying hype - train right now hahaha and I've decided to take my secondary Greninja and try to dual main Sheik and Greninja. Anyways, my point is I want to do jab locks and footstools with Sheik, too...is this even possible?

I know about the crazy situation Utilt platform jab lock, but I was experimenting with Ftilt > FS > Dair and Fthrow > FS > Dair and I was just wondering if that Dair is guaranteed after the footstool? I'm basically just trying to come up with something fun and silly with Sheik because I think surprising the opponent with her is so intimidating since she's constantly in the limelight. I mean, I've never seen someone do weird footstool stuff with her.

P.S. I know that none of the things I mentioned are very damaging or game-changing, but I think it'd be fun to pull off.

P.P.S. I read somewhere that sour Bair jab locks????

 

[Wasserwipf]

Sooo, you are right, uptilt does infact jab lock. In fact, as far as I know, SB user Simikins is currently working on a Jab lock thread.

For now, please check out this thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-footstool-into-dair-spike.425407/
Also by simikins, it contains many comobs to footstool to dair, you might start working from there.

@PS: we were in fact trying to figure out a way to pull off riicolous combos with jablocks / footstool, maybe that'll be possible with help off the empty grenade shell...

@PPS:

Figured that one out long time ago, should still be possible...

 

[Ꮤhisker]

Sooo, you are right, uair does infact jab lock. In fact, as far as I know, SB user Simikins is currently working on a Jab lock thread.

For now, please check out this thread:
http://smashboards.com/threads/sheik-footstool-into-dair-spike.425407/
Also by simikins, it contains many comobs to footstool to dair, you might start working from there.

@PS: we were in fact trying to figure out a way to pull off riicolous combos with jablocks / footstool, maybe that'll be possible with help off the empty grenade shell...

@PPS:

Figured that one out long time ago, should still be possible...

Thanks for the reply, I'll check out what you mentioned! I wish I could upload a gif or a video of what I'm talking about to make it clearer oh well, I'll just try it out on my friends and see if I can actually get away with some of my ideas.

But yaaaaaaass footstool to dair combos are so awesome thank you for the reminder of that sweet option!

 

[Green Zelda]

Heya! What's the most optimal control setup for a gamecube controller and 3DS when using Sheik? Thanks in
advance!

 

[{Kyro}]

Heya! What's the most optimal control setup for a gamecube controller and 3DS when using Sheik? Thanks in
advance!

There's generally not a controller setup ever considered "optimal" for a character. You want to make sure your setup makes everything that you would use the most as Sheik the easiest to do. I recommend setting C-stick to tilts to make tilts out of a perfect pivot much faster, but besides that it's mostly personal preference.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Heya! What's the most optimal control setup for a gamecube controller and 3DS when using Sheik? Thanks in
advance!

I wrote a bit about that here, but as Kyro said, it's about personal taste. Honestly, I've considered going back to default controls so that playing Melee isn't so different. I'll see how that works out.

 

[WondrousMoose]

Well, it turns out I made my sappy post in the wrong thread and double posted.

 

[Gearitz]

Is there any updated data dump for shiek 1.1.5. A guide, combo list, anything? If so could someone please direct me.

 

[Simikins]

Is there any updated data dump for shiek 1.1.5. A guide, combo list, anything? If so could someone please direct me.

No data dump per se, but we're working on 1.1.5 stuff here

 

[Deleted member]

Does anybody knows what happened there ?

Slowed down :

 

[Daymaster]

Does anybody knows what happened there ?

Slowed down :

He footstooled you while you had a large amount of momentum from the BF. Although I'm not sure of specifics, when you are being footstooled your traction is affected in very strange ways, most likely causing this upon landing.

 

[Simikins]

Does anybody knows what happened there ?

Slowed down :

Like Daymaster said, you got footstooled after landing in the laggy part of BF. Didn't know that was a thing
I'm assuming it's because you have momentum and the laggy BF landing cancels it, but you were footstooled the moment you landed so it continued? Idk it looks cool though

 

[Bunni]

How many frames exactly do you have to do a B reverse needle? I can do it semi-consistently standing still but I am too scared to do it off stage.

 

[Wasserwipf]

How many frames exactly do you have to do a B reverse needle? I can do it semi-consistently standing still but I am too scared to do it off stage.

I think B-reverse can be activated up to 2 Frames after pressing B. As in, Press B, flick the stick within 2 frames later. Turnaround goes with the buffer window iirc, so its 10 frames in advance as in flick stick, return to neutral, B, to start neutral B facing the other direction.

Hope this helps & i got em right.

 

[Numonik]

I have seen many Sheik players do the run/dash away to grounded B-reverse needles.
I cannot seem to do this consistently because sometimes there is the sliding animation after my dash. I tried different timings to input B after the dash but I still cannot figure out what the right timing is to avoid that sliding animation.
How do I do this consistently?

Another thing:
When I dash -> Full Hop needles it seems that sometimes Sheik turns around automatically without me changing the direction in the stick. So basically Sheik does a B-reverse in the air without me actually doing it.
It happens sometimes and I don't know why this happens. I have tried different controllers and this still happens.
Why does this happen and how do I avoid it?

Thank you

 

[Daymaster]

I have seen many Sheik players do the run/dash away to grounded B-reverse needles.
I cannot seem to do this consistently because sometimes there is the sliding animation after my dash. I tried different timings to input B after the dash but I still cannot figure out what the right timing is to avoid that sliding animation.
How do I do this consistently?

Another thing:
When I dash -> Full Hop needles it seems that sometimes Sheik turns around automatically without me changing the direction in the stick. So basically Sheik does a B-reverse in the air without me actually doing it.
It happens sometimes and I don't know why this happens. I have tried different controllers and this still happens.
Why does this happen and how do I avoid it?

Thank you

1: I try to Needle and press back at the same time at a speed where B is pressed right when the stick is in the middle. This works 80% of the time for me.
2: That happens more and more the older a controller gets, as it's harder for you to keep the control stick in neutral. Try to actively press forward VERY when you do this, or get a new controller/replace the stick if it is still an issue.

 

[onlyaaron17]

Anyone seen Zero play sheik vs any top level diddy kongs? Or high level diddy kongs? Searching for vids pertaining to a top level player sheik vs a top level diddy usually only consists of ZeRo's diddy kong at high level play.

I ask this, because I've been trying to study ways to kill Diddy Kong, and every top level sheik player does not close games well against ZeRo.

So far I have :

* Forward tilt > uair (catches rolls, can be used to punish poor spacing on diddy's fair oos).
*Dtilt > uair (d-tilt can duck under monkey flip, and can be used when Diddy's dash in.
*D-air (after getting throw up in the air, if diddy kong goes for the uair, you can dair spike him ps : I've seen void do this multiple times).
* Up b regrab from ledge (really hasty if your opponent holds shield at the ledge, but can produce mixup options to where your opponent has to react. If they dont touch shield, they get hit.)
* Bouncing fish punish vs Diddy going for a low recovery with up b? (do sheik players like this option? Have not been able to land it consistently)
* Uair to catch Diddy recoveries up high.

Note :Town and City, and Smashville seem to be one of Sheik's better stages to land kills vs Diddy Kongs.

 

[Daymaster]

Anyone seen Zero play sheik vs any top level diddy kongs? Or high level diddy kongs? Searching for vids pertaining to a top level player sheik vs a top level diddy usually only consists of ZeRo's diddy kong at high level play.

I ask this, because I've been trying to study ways to kill Diddy Kong, and every top level sheik player does not close games well against ZeRo.

So far I have :

* Forward tilt > uair (catches rolls, can be used to punish poor spacing on diddy's fair oos).
*Dtilt > uair (d-tilt can duck under monkey flip, and can be used when Diddy's dash in.
*D-air (after getting throw up in the air, if diddy kong goes for the uair, you can dair spike him ps : I've seen void do this multiple times).
* Up b regrab from ledge (really hasty if your opponent holds shield at the ledge, but can produce mixup options to where your opponent has to react. If they dont touch shield, they get hit.)
* Bouncing fish punish vs Diddy going for a low recovery with up b? (do sheik players like this option? Have not been able to land it consistently)
* Uair to catch Diddy recoveries up high.

Note :Town and City, and Smashville seem to be one of Sheik's better stages to land kills vs Diddy Kongs.

I think that list is pretty much it as far as kill setups go, except for the fact that it's not too hard to Needle to BF his recovery when he is charging Up B. As for videos, well, there are not many good Diddys as of his nerf, so it will not be likely that you will run into videos of him VS Diddy at nationals. IDK if he attends too many smaller events that have VODs or not.

 

[onlyaaron17]

I think that list is pretty much it as far as kill setups go, except for the fact that it's not too hard to Needle to BF his recovery when he is charging Up B. As for videos, well, there are not many good Diddys as of his nerf, so it will not be likely that you will run into videos of him VS Diddy at nationals. IDK if he attends too many smaller events that have VODs or not.

Yeah, that is good insight. I have not tried to do needles to bouncing fish on the up b recovery. Is there an angle I should be going for when doing this?

Im guessing what im trying to ask is.

Do I:

A. Snipe the up b with needles as he goes up.
B. Snipe the up b, while he is charging the upb.

Should i be near the ledge? Or should I be closer to center stage to snipe as he comes up?

 

[Daymaster]

Yeah, that is good insight. I have not tried to do needles to bouncing fish on the up b recovery. Is there an angle I should be going for when doing this?

Im guessing what im trying to ask is.

Do I:

A. Snipe the up b with needles as he goes up.
B. Snipe the up b, while he is charging the upb.

Should i be near the ledge? Or should I be closer to center stage to snipe as he comes up?

Preferably while it is charging because when he is flying upwards, he has almost total control over his direction and he goes very fast. Either way works, but the sooner the better. This, of course, works best if you are near the ledge or off-stage because most Diddys will try and snap the ledge as opposed to land on the stage.

 

[Daymaster]

Is there any particular reason that I never see Sheiks using Extended Dash Dancing? If my time playing Melee and PM has thought me anything it's that Dash Dancing is very beneficial, and even if it is not quite as strong here and harder to preform it still seems like it would have MASSIVE benefits, especially since bait-and-punish is so important to Sheik?

 

[DJSKRELP]

What is the optimal way when going for needle to bouncing fish kills?

 

[{Kyro}]

Is there any particular reason that I never see Sheiks using Extended Dash Dancing? If my time playing Melee and PM has thought me anything it's that Dash Dancing is very beneficial, and even if it is not quite as strong here and harder to preform it still seems like it would have MASSIVE benefits, especially since bait-and-punish is so important to Sheik?

It's too slow. It would basically be like if you had to wait 15 frames (or whatever it is) between changing directions in Melee or PM. If your opponent catches you at the wrong moment, you're in trouble because turning around isn't fast enough. Also, Sheik's B-reverse needle is a generally more versatile tool.

 

[Derpnaster]

Being a Dual main Link Greninja is there anything I can transfer between either Link or the Frog when it comes to playing Shiek?
So far all I really have is Greninja's movement is similar to Shiek's, though better overall, to the point where I try to pull some of Greninja's offstage shenanigans with Shiek.

 

[et3rnal]

Is this known? I cant seem to replicate it without chance

 

[Illuminose]

Is this known? I cant seem to replicate it without chance

yeah, it's needle ledge cancelling

 

[Cold_Ninja_Emperor]

how can i kill with sheik like i know that edguarding helps but what else?

 

[Cold_Ninja_Emperor]

i also know some old kill setup that are still reliable like ftilt/dtilt to upair

 

[ZafKiel]

i also know some old kill setup that are still reliable like ftilt/dtilt to upair

I believe Nair to bouncing fish as well as needles (after a full hop?) to bouncing fish are still some options. Also tomahawk to Up-Smash in some cases. I'm still fairly new to Sheik so these may not be accurate but for the most part, these are the ones I've been hearing about the most