New Smash Bros for WiiU

[vicgur]

"Apparently, even some Nintendo characters could not be included because of "rights issues" -- we're not sure which characters he may be referring to."

I wonder who?

Yeah, this is a b****.
Possibly, characters made by someone who doesn't work for Nintendo anymore...
I'm not really the best person to talk about it, because I pretty much suck at stuff like that. But I think some characters created by, let's say, Rare[DKCountry characters, for example] can still be a little problematic to Nintendo.
I dunno, gonna pass it to someone who really knows this stuff.

 

[---]

Just an off hand note. If anybody truly want's to develope a better understanding of how Sakurai operates and develops Super Smash Bros. I'd read some of the summaries from Masahiro Sakurai's GDC 2008 speech. That will give you a better understanding of the approach he takes with character development and so on.

Then I'd read the latest Iwata interview with Sakurai about Super Smash Bros. 4:

GDC 2008:

http://www.joystiq.com/2008/02/22/gdc08-sakurai-on-super-smash-bros-brawl-development/
http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2008/02/sakurai-talks-a/#more

Super Smash Bros. 4:

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/06/09/iwata_asks_smash_bros/
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/633202-super-smash-bros-wii-u/60134280

Good find Star, I'm adding this to the backroom info thread.

So after re-reading all of those, I thought this was interesting:

"Apparently, even some Nintendo characters could not be included because of "rights issues" -- we're not sure which characters he may be referring to."

I wonder who?

Geno?

 

[Oasis_S]

Geno is the obvious one, I suppose.

But if there were rights issues, then that character couldn't have appeared anywhere in the game, right? So then any character appearing in the game, from playable to STICKER, should be within their right to add. ...That is SOOO many characters that I have no idea who could have been left out for such a reason, lol.

EDIT:
I should look at your thread in the group more often, ---.

Found this:
"I had a lot more characters, for example... but sadly, I can't discuss which ones didn't make it!"

Sounds like he already has plenty of ideas for characters. (WHICH IS A GIVEN BUT WHATEVER)

and this:
"but when I agreed with Mr Iwata to make the game, I made one very important condition: regardless of how interested the casual market might be in Brawl, the game I was going to make was always meant to be played with the controller held like this. (holds a GameCube controller)"

He also doesn't like the Classic Controller as much. Hope that means we'll be getting a new controller.

from this:
http://www.officialnintendomagazine.co.uk/5437/features/an-audience-with-masahiro-sakurai/

 

[nLiM8d]

I'm glad.

At least one of those articles is something I haven't read yet.

_ _ _

Ah, so this is essentially the paraphrased version of the original interview's content.

 

[Berserker.]

Phew....

Hope for GC compatibility..... at least

 

[Thino]

we'll get a GC shaped Classic controller at best

EDIT : AND EVEN IF WE DO , chances are that the triggers are not gonna be motion sensitive but it doesnt matter to Smash anyway since light shields got ditched since Brawl

 

[Berserker.]

Done with the Phoenix Wright moveset....

Spoiler

Spoiler

Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that! Objection! Briefcase! Hold it! Take that!

The link is here: http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=13028457&postcount=14576

 

[Sonic Poke]

Good Afternoon!

Hey Berserker, What do you think?

Dr. Mario

I'm not saying it can happen, it's just an idea of a new Dr. Mario moveset, if he returns, it's just an idea, what do you think?

A: Punch
AA: Punch
AAA: Punch vitamins.

Side Smash 'A': side kick.
Smash Up 'A': Punch up.
Down Smash 'A': Similar to that of Ganondorf.

'A' Air: similar to Mario, but he will give it a whirl.
Side 'A' Air: Kick forward.
Another Side 'A' Air: Similar to Mario.
Down 'A' Air: Punch down
Up 'A' Air: Halter.

Walking 'A': strong punch
Running 'A': Roundhouse quickly
Kneeling 'A': Roundhouse delayed.
'Looking Up' 'A': Halter

Standard Special Move: Megavitamins.

Side Special Move: Scalpel, a quick cut with a scalpel, causes a damage of 15%

Down Special Move: Automatic Defibrillator, an attack with the defibrillator, which sends a high electrical charge covers high damage, depending on the distance has been determined. Up close is a little stronger than 'DownB' Pikachu.

Up Special Move: Laughing gas, when applied to soil, it causes dizziness and strong laughter in oponent when applied in the air, serves as the recovery movement, as a strong jet of gas rises to the top.

Final Smash:Giant Injection: Dr. Mario pulls a huge and merciless injection, which so crazy, runs and applies the 'dangerous drug' in opponents, causing 30% damage each application. LOL

Alternative Costumes

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

we'll get a GC shaped Classic controller at best

EDIT : AND EVEN IF WE DO , chances are that the triggers are not gonna be motion sensitive but it doesnt matter to Smash anyway since light shields got ditched since Brawl

Who knows, maybe the pressure-sensitive shields may come back. Of course, the Classic Controller Pro lacks pressure-sensitive L and R buttons.

 

[vicgur]

@GC Controller talk
As a big fan of the GC Controller[it's my favorite controller EVER], I hope they make some wireless, battery-energized, GCController-shaped Classic Controllers for the WiiU. WITH RUMBLE.
Too much? Maybe, but it's the best possible way they can do something.

PS: By the way, if WiiU is stickin' with WiiMotes, I'd like too see a new WiiMote, with a rechargeable battery and Motion Plus...

 

[nLiM8d]

Don't invest in another controller until the only tether is between you and the console.

Not between you and another controller.

or none at all

vicG, Rumble diminishes battery power (besides you can turn it on and off)

 

[Thino]

I think Vics talking about the rumble in a way that its in the actual classic controller and not just the wiimote like it is for normal classic controller

yep. battery sucker.

I havent used my wiimote rumble in ages and thats why wired controllers are superior

 

[Berserker.]

Good Afternoon!

Hey Berserker, What do you think?

Dr. Mario

I'm not saying it can happen, it's just an idea of a new Dr. Mario moveset, if he returns, it's just an idea, what do you think?

A: Punch
AA: Punch
AAA: Punch vitamins.

Side Smash 'A': side kick.
Smash Up 'A': Punch up.
Down Smash 'A': Similar to that of Ganondorf.

'A' Air: similar to Mario, but he will give it a whirl.
Side 'A' Air: Kick forward.
Another Side 'A' Air: Similar to Mario.
Down 'A' Air: Punch down
Up 'A' Air: Halter.

Walking 'A': strong punch
Running 'A': Roundhouse quickly
Kneeling 'A': Roundhouse delayed.
'Looking Up' 'A': Halter

Standard Special Move: Megavitamins.

Side Special Move: Scalpel, a quick cut with a scalpel, causes a damage of 15%

Down Special Move: Automatic Defibrillator, an attack with the defibrillator, which sends a high electrical charge covers high damage, depending on the distance has been determined. Up close is a little stronger than 'DownB' Pikachu.

Up Special Move: Laughing gas, when applied to soil, it causes dizziness and strong laughter in oponent when applied in the air, serves as the recovery movement, as a strong jet of gas rises to the top.

Final Smash:Giant Injection: Dr. Mario pulls a huge and merciless injection, which so crazy, runs and applies the 'dangerous drug' in opponents, causing 30% damage each application. LOL

Alternative Costumes

I saw this a lot of times already.

It's good

 

[vicgur]

vicG, Rumble diminishes battery power (besides you can turn it on and off)

Of course, but with a rechargeable battery like the Dualshock's it wouldn't be much of a problem.

I have a PS3, and battery problems are almost gone when all you have to do is connect the controller to the console with a cable.

I think Vics talking about the rumble in a way that its in the actual classic controller and not just the wiimote like it is for normal classic controller
yep. battery sucker.
I havent used my wiimote rumble in ages and thats why wired controllers are superior

Pretty much what I was talking about, yes.
And yeah, my rumble and the noises of the Wiimote are always turned off in my Wii.

 

[nLiM8d]

I have a PS3, and battery problems are almost gone when all you have to do is connect the controller to the console with a cable.

THIS for the next level of controller. We shouldn't have to worry about technicalities like this.

Good thing we happened upon this v to add to our household

The Wii came out with 2 controller styles, I figure that the 'U' will do likewise.

 

[Arcadenik]

I'm glad someone else realizes Slime doesn't have a large enough fanbase in America. Unlike his Final Fantasy counterparts. (Black Mage)

Also, Waluigi is just undeserving. He hasn't done anything. He's a sheep character. I mean, you wouldn't suggest Toadette would you? So stop asking for this creepy mofo.

Tingle has actually established himself as his own entity apart from his mother franchise. He's pretty much the best idea for a fith Loz character. Personally, I think he beats out Toon Zelda/Tetra even.

@Psycho, trust me. Our rosters are going to be way off. Just like they were for Brawl.

The game will have some cool characters.

I couldn't agree more! Why people would want Toon Zelda and Tetra is beyond me. People think it is bad enough that we have three Landmasters? Just imagine how it will be like with four Light Arrows!

Exactly... why ask for Waluigi? He is in the same boat with Toadette, yet no one is seriously asking for Toadette. So, just what makes Waluigi more special? Because he is Wario's brother and Luigi's rival? Because he is Nintendo's "original character, do not steal" amalgamation of Wario and Luigi, that makes him the best candidate to represent the Mario franchise? Give me a break!

I would rather have an actual original character who isn't based on a pre-existing character like Toad. At least Toad(s) have been playable in three main Mario games (SMB2, NSMBWii, NSMBMii) and once had his own game (Wario's Woods) and it appears that Paper Mario 3DS might have a Toad partner. Toad(s) are not limited to just spin-off games like Waluigi is and that gives Toad plenty of stuff to work with.

Not Tingle, I don't want him nor do I see him as a playable character in the next Smash, aaaand, before you get heated up, yeah it might happen, but I'd rather see Ghirahim since he's a bigger prominent character, not to mention his game is coming out in November so.....

Okay... and what does Ghirahim has going for him that Midna, Zant, Tetra, and Vaati lacked? I mean, why would Ghirahim be in Smash 4? Just because he's new? What about Midna, Zant, Tetra, and Vaati? They were new at the time Brawl came out and they didn't get in, not even as an Assist Trophy (and yet Tingle did, the character with the least fan demand)... so what makes Ghirahim any more special than the rest of the one-time characters?

Sorry but Tingle is the best choice (okay, maybe not the best choice but the most logically sound choice) for the Zelda series... he does not have to represent the Zelda series, he can just represent his own spin-off series just like Yoshi and Wario do. He also has Balloon Fighter beat since he has more stuff to work with that can turn him into a fighter. With Balloon Fighter, you got to make up all of his moves from scratch... which is doable but takes so much time and energy trying to come up with (not to mention that Sakurai said he would be useless without the balloons). With Tingle, you could incorporate Tingle Shield, Tingle Bomb, Tingle Balloon (all from Zelda Wind Waker) plus his Rupee machine gun from his first game (he used it against the final boss)... it's pretty convenient to have something to work with.

Pretty much. Although I've never had a problem with four legged fighters. I do have a problem with lack of limb fighters (Andross type stuff), and sizes to big (Lugia, you can NOT scale down some characters)

Yes, you totally can scale up/down all characters! Olimar is the size of a quarter. Kirby is 8 inches tall. Ridley is the size of a house who can grasp Samus's entire body in the palm of his hand! Kraid was shorter than Samus in the NES Metroid, too! Size totally does not matter!

Palutena.
I don't get why people want her so bad. She just sits her fata** while Pit does the dirty work. My point is, from all those characters, she is the less "active".
If Kid Icarus is really going to recieve a new character, I'd say Medusa and Magnus deserve more than her.

That's poor logic. What about Zelda? She wasn't very active in any of the Zelda games before Melee came out. But Zelda is a very important character in the Zelda series (it is named after her after all) and Sakurai was very creative... giving her Link's magic spells and the Sheik transformation (even though Sheik never fought in Ocarina of Time).

Palutena is in the same boat... she is a very important character in the Kid Icarus series. In fact, the Japanese name of Kid Icarus is translated into Palutena's Mirror, meaning the series is named after her as well (of course, a Metroid cannot work but you know what I mean!). Sakurai can just give her Pit's new moves from Uprising if he needs to make her work as a Smash fighter. What's the problem with that?

Better yet... what about R.O.B.? That NES accessory literally does nothing but rotating its arms around to lift/place gyros and blocks. My point is... just because a character is not active doesn't mean they cannot be playable ever. They just need to be have a body build that can allow them to fight in this kind of game (sorry Metroid).

 

[nLiM8d]

We don't know what Ghirahim is capable of doing yet. That doesn't mean that his design isn't something to consider.

As far as Tingle goes, we do know what he can do. And quite frankly, its not inspiring for candidacy. That doesn't even scratch the surface of what manner of 'interesting' he is.

A spinoff character by design, Wario represents several worlds of creativity beyond this fellow.

What about Zelda?

Sheik. There's your answer.

 

[Arcadenik]

@ Sonic Poke

That is an okay moveset for Dr. Mario... but why aren't the Viruses incorporated into his moveset? You got the Megavitamins but no Viruses?

B - Megavitamins (same as in Melee)

Side B - Virus (same like King Dedede's Side B but with added effects; the red one (Fever) burns you, the blue one (Chill) freezes you, the yellow one (Weird) stuns you like Mewtwo's Down B move)

Up B - Super Jump Punch (same as in Melee but Megavitamins appear instead of coins)

Down B - Super Sheet (works like Mario Tornado but the sheet deflects projectiles like Mario's cape; based on Mario's spinning animation with the cape in Super Mario World)

Final Smash - Virus Outbreak (same as King Dedede's Final Smash but the Viruses run around burning, freezing and stunning everyone)

 

[OmegaXXII]

Of course, Tingle is the most undeserving followed by Waluigi.

 

[vicgur]

That's poor logic. What about Zelda? She wasn't very active in any of the Zelda games before Melee came out. But Zelda is a very important character in the Zelda series (it is named after her after all) and Sakurai was very creative... giving her Link's magic spells and the Sheik transformation (even though Sheik never fought in Ocarina of Time).

Palutena is in the same boat... she is a very important character in the Kid Icarus series. In fact, the Japanese name of Kid Icarus is translated into Palutena's Mirror, meaning the series is named after her as well (of course, a Metroid cannot work but you know what I mean!). Sakurai can just give her Pit's new moves from Uprising if he needs to make her work as a Smash fighter. What's the problem with that?

Better yet... what about R.O.B.? That NES accessory literally does nothing but rotating its arms around to lift/place gyros and blocks. My point is... just because a character is not active doesn't mean they cannot be playable ever. They just need to be have a body build that can allow them to fight in this kind of game (sorry Metroid).

Yes, Zelda is not the most active character in Zelda. But hey, she was Sheik and she kinda helped Link in OoT.
But I get it. Palutena IS a nice character and she CAN be playable. I already talked about it, but I'll say it again:
I don't really see Kid Icarus getting more than 1 new rep. And if it gets a rep, I think Medusa would have better chances. She is a villain, she is seen in action, and she got freakin' snakes for hair[OMG].
But yeah, maybe Palutena is not the most undeserving... But I can imagine every other character in that list getting in the game before her.
But I'm waiting patiently to play Uprising, so I can hopefully change my opinion.

 

[Thino]

10 bucks Palutena will be a sitting ***** in Uprising too.

doesnt change anything to the supposedly chances she has to make it to SSB4 IMO if she's even being considered

 

[Arcadenik]

We don't know what Ghirahim is capable of doing yet. That doesn't mean that his design isn't something to consider.

As far as Tingle goes, we do know what he can do. And quite frankly, its not inspiring for candidacy. That doesn't even scratch the surface of what manner of 'interesting' he is.

A spinoff character by design, Wario represents several worlds of creativity beyond this fellow.

Sheik. There's your answer.

But Sheik did not fight in Ocarina of Time either. Your answer is invalid. It does not make sense how Zelda cannot be in Smash because she doesn't fight... but because Zelda has an alter ego in Sheik, who also doesn't fight, she should be in Smash? Where is the logic in that?

Okay, if whatever Tingle can do in his own games isn't inspiring for candidacy nor interesting enough to be in Smash... what is?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yeah, Paletuna is definetly likely, she play a prominent role in the Kid Icarus series as well, even though I prefer Medusa, I still can't doubt her chances, even if I didn't like her.

 

[Berserker.]

I'm actually fine with Pit as the only KI character.

 

[Oasis_S]

For a franchise as small as Kid Icarus, whose shot at even having a second character is QUESTIONABLE, you'd need to do a better job at representing it. The series itself is about light versus dark, so having Pit and Medusa would be best. Medusa also has more interesting qualities about her than Palutena, which is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.

Palutena isn't undeserving, she just wouldn't bring as much to the roster.


Also Tingle is still the best.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Nope, Ridley should eat him up.

But still, I'd like to see what Palutena could offer, it's silly for you to say she doesn't offer anything, it's dumb logic, look at ROB and Captain Falcon, he sits in his car all day yet Sakurai came up with a moveset, there is no excuse why Palutena couldn't offer something to the table if Sakurai deemed her as considerable. :/

 

[Thino]

please guys stop saying KI it makes me think of Killer Instinct characters being in SSB4 and it bring tears to my eyes because there will never be another Killer Instinct game ;.;

anyway yea nothing to say at this point about Palutena and/or Medusa, I'm really careful about speculating when someone like Sakurai is behind the develpment of the game

 

[asia_catdog_blue]

I read the whole Megaman conversation a few pages back, and I this thought for a while.

I think Rock could benefit without his Boss Weapons. Well, the long range ones, anyway.

I guess since everyone else are making moveset, why don't I jump in?

Weak Attacks: 123: Left Jab, Right Jab, Light Kick

Strong Attacks

Upward: Strong Uppercut(Medium Punch in MVC)
Forward: Double Slash Claw(why not?)
Downward: Low Kick

SMASH ATTACKS

Upward: (Crouching High Kick in MVC)
Forward: Flame Sword
Downward: ...Strong Sweep?
Dash Attack: Slide Attack(maybe Charge Kick?)

Areial Attacks

Center: Top Spin
Front: Flame Sword(different animation in the air)
Back: Drop Kick
Up: Flip Kick
Down: ...Boot Stomp?(got nothing here)

Special Attacks

Standard: Mega Buster(with Charge Shot)
Forward: Super Arrow(can stick to walls and be used as a platform)
Upward: Rising Uppercut(from Megaman 2: The Power Fighters)
Downward: Mega Ball

Grapples and Throw Downs

Uses the Wire Adapter to snatch his enemies to his position.

Pummel: Punch or Headbutt
Front: throws them straight or kicks them
Back: throws them
Up: tosses them and blasts them straight up
Down: trows them down and blasts them

Final Smash: Either Super Adapter or Black Hole Bomb

I wanted to see if I can give Rock Light a Moveset without having to rely on Long-Range Boss Weapons. The close-range ones were fair game.

I'll do something similar of other characters. Either tune-up the veterans or simply make up ideas for newcomers.

 

[Sonic Poke]

@ Sonic Poke

That is an okay moveset for Dr. Mario... but why aren't the Viruses incorporated into his moveset? You got the Megavitamins but no Viruses?

B - Megavitamins (same as in Melee)

Side B - Virus (same like King Dedede's Side B but with added effects; the red one (Fever) burns you, the blue one (Chill) freezes you, the yellow one (Weird) stuns you like Mewtwo's Down B move)

Up B - Super Jump Punch (same as in Melee but Megavitamins appear instead of coins)

Down B - Super Sheet (works like Mario Tornado but the sheet deflects projectiles like Mario's cape; based on Mario's spinning animation with the cape in Super Mario World)

Final Smash - Virus Outbreak (same as King Dedede's Final Smash but the Viruses run around burning, freezing and stunning everyone)

Because Dr. Mario is a doctor, not a cause of disease! But anyway, this one's moveset is great!

 

[OmegaXXII]

I liked the Dr.Mario moveset, it quite a set you have there.

you make gif's?

 

[Sonic Poke]

I liked the Dr.Mario moveset, it quite a set you have there.

you make gif's?

Thanks!

Oh, yes I make gifs! But only simple gifs, I'm still beginner!

 

[nLiM8d]

But Sheik did not fight in Ocarina of Time either. Your answer is invalid.

If you can't see the point to having Sheik in involved, then there's no use reasoning with you.

I don't provide clarification to people that go around certifying the validity of people's answers.

I'm really careful about speculating when someone like Sakurai is behind the develpment of the game

My hat's off to you sir.

 

[---]

EDIT:
I should look at your thread in the group more often, ---.

Well it's nice for the support, but it's more of a spot for placing info that may contribute to debates and finding information easier.

Either way until development picks up or E3 comes the tread's more or less on stand still.

I'm really careful about speculating when someone like Sakurai is behind the development of the game

Yep, this is very true about speculation it's also what's scary about it. lol

Which reminds me, has anyone seen Hex?

 

[nLiM8d]

Which reminds me, has anyone seen Hex?

I've been curious about his absence myself.

Especially since his article relates the the subject here.

​

 

[Arcadenik]

Of course, Tingle is the most undeserving followed by Waluigi.

Doesn't change the fact Tingle has at least four games in his resume and Waluig has nothing.

Yes, Zelda is not the most active character in Zelda. But hey, she was Sheik and she kinda helped Link in OoT.
But I get it. Palutena IS a nice character and she CAN be playable. I already talked about it, but I'll say it again:
I don't really see Kid Icarus getting more than 1 new rep. And if it gets a rep, I think Medusa would have better chances. She is a villain, she is seen in action, and she got freakin' snakes for hair[OMG].
But yeah, maybe Palutena is not the most undeserving... But I can imagine every other character in that list getting in the game before her.
But I'm waiting patiently to play Uprising, so I can hopefully change my opinion.

Okay, other than your own self-imposed limitations, what is keeping Sakurai from adding two new Kid Icarus characters? Haven't you noticed that Sakurai had already done this to other series? He adds mascots/protagonists first before he adds villains/sidekicks. (usually they are the second-most important characters)

Mario & Luigi in SSB. Peach & Bowser in Melee. (not counting alternate versions of existing characters)
Link in SSB. Zelda & Ganondorf in Melee. (not counting alternate versions of existing characters)
Pikachu in SSB. Grass/Fire/Water starters in Brawl. (not counting random Pokemon and flavor of the month Pokemon)
Kirby in SSB. Meta Knight & King Dedede in Brawl.
Donkey Kong in SSB. Diddy Kong & Dixie Kong in Brawl (according to the Forbidden Seven, Sakurai was going to do this for the Donkey Kong series)
Pit in Brawl. Palutena & Medusa in SSB4 (it is a possibility!)

For a franchise as small as Kid Icarus, whose shot at even having a second character is QUESTIONABLE, you'd need to do a better job at representing it. The series itself is about light versus dark, so having Pit and Medusa would be best. Medusa also has more interesting qualities about her than Palutena, which is MUCH MORE IMPORTANT.

Palutena isn't undeserving, she just wouldn't bring as much to the roster.


Also Tingle is still the best.

Mother has three games. It still got a second character because Sakurai is biased towards that series. Star Fox had two games at the time Melee came out and it still got a second character (maybe Sakurai is biased towards that series, too?) Since Sakurai is working on Kid Icarus, I would wager that he probably has become biased towards the series.

I was thinking of something about light vs. dark theme in the story mode... Medusa with Zoroark vs. Palutena with Mewtwo. Sounds pretty good to me. It would be a reference to Pokemon Black/White. And besides, having both Palutena and Medusa would temporarily solve all the complaints about the apparent lack of female characters in Smash (apparently Peach, Zelda and Samus are all traps). At least I am not adding random unimportant female characters for the sake of having female characters like Jody Summer or Daisy. I am not for affirmative action because that implies that you are adding females/villains just because they are females/villains instead of their overall importance in the series. Palutena and Medusa are the Peach/Zelda and Bowser/Ganondorf of the Kid Icarus series. There is a huge difference! So, what's the problem?

 

[Arcadenik]

If you can't see the point to having Sheik in involved, then there's no use reasoning with you.

I don't provide clarification to people that go around certifying the validity of people's answers.

My hat's off to you sir.

Oh, right! Sheik looks like a ninja. Ninjas are cool. Therefore, Sheik should be in Smash (even though she never fought at all). That kind of thinking, right? Only the cool ones should be in Smash and the ones who don't look cool shouldn't be in Smash. Right? That'd explain why certain characters like Tingle and Toad get little support around here.

 

[nLiM8d]

Makes Ghirahim look pretty good doesn't it?

 

[Arcadenik]

There you go! That's how shallow some people are. Supporting characters based on their physical appearances. Or supporting characters based on how strong they were in the games (stats wise).

 

[nLiM8d]

SO shallow...SO strong.

 

[vicgur]

@Arcadenik

Sorry, but this pattern you mentioned[of having protagonist first, then villain/sidekick] doesn't really make sense.