New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Ithra]

i was talking to a friend on facebook about characters and thought i would share my thoughts from there, here (with some alteration now that i've had some time to think.

i just like to stick to what would be realistic.
here is what i expect.
1) a new mario character (they always do, but they seem to be losing good options. but i could see a bowser junier/shadow mario working quite well.)
2) 1 if not a few more pokemon (there are ALOT of options, probably some of the most popular ones from the older games) edit: actually newer ones woulld have a chance to if they are popular enough
3) krystal (best option from the star fox games, and a fighting style using the staff would work great)
4) a new Ganondorf (by now Sakurai will have gotten the picture that the fans want Ganon to play like Ganon)
5) maybe an F-Zero character to replace the old Ganon (either samurai goroh or MAYBE black shadow
6) a fire emblem character (possibly Roy)
7) MAYBE an earthbound character (if they have a good option, i'm not sure if they do)
8) 1 or 2 more 3rd party characters, its really up in the air who those could be, really all depends on who they can get their hands on
9) 1 or 2 totally unsuspected characters, one being a blast from the past possibly
10) little mac has a fair chance, not a big one but a fair chance edit: maybe he has a bigger chance then i originally thought
edit:
11) who knows maybe some of the guys in that prof layton tweet might make it! my biggest wish is to see Geno make a come back :star:

 

[refugee]

for the love of god... hits= the results that the search gives you. searching lucario gives you more results on google. more or less meaning that he's more discussed and relevant. which means SOMETHING when you consider their ages.

but it's still not accurate enough to be even close to conclusive.

Just because you search/discuss Lucario doesn't mean you like him. That's what I'm trying to say. You can be discussing how much you hate Lucario for example. I know what hits mean. I mentioned it several times. How about you actually read the text before you respond to it?

 

[BlueSuperSonic1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPPDvT_KRE4

What was that?

That's like saying that Pikachu is good in Melee because Axe is amazing with him.

 

[Conviction]

That's like saying Kirby is good in Melee because...wait

 

[Beninator]

I hope they don't tell us EVERYTHING on the Dojo.

In fact, I want them to tell us as little as possible. Maybe one or two new characters, about half the returning characters, a few new stages, and a bit about how the gameplay has changed.

 

[•Col•]

That's like saying that Pikachu is good in Melee because Axe is amazing with him.

No, it's like saying that if you practice long enough, you can learn to cover and/or make up for your character's weaknesses fairly well.

 

[Shorts]

Ohh... that? Yeah, that was proven fake. o_O Doesn't help that it 'confirmed' two characters that weren't in Brawl...

This happened after brawls release. Last summer I remeber hearing about this and getting very excited. Only to find out that it's probably some lame guy who lives in his grandma's basement who likes to hype some of the most hypable fans to ever exist.

 

[Steam]

Just because you search/discuss Lucario doesn't mean you like him. That's what I'm trying to say. You can be discussing how much you hate Lucario for example. I know what hits mean. I mentioned it several times. How about you actually read the text before you respond to it?

it seemed to me that you thought it meant that it was the number of times it was searched. not the number of results you get. in fact it was very obvious that's what you meant. stop trying to cover your *** lmao.

and it's true you could, which is why it's not perfect. but it at least shows their relevance is at least close. and when you consider their ages... it leads one to believe that today lucario is more relevant.

note that it's also more likely that the older generation of fans (which would lead towards mewtwo) will be found on the internet more than the younger generation of fans which would lean the other way. but THERE ARE NO STATISTICS TO PROVE THAT RAWR.

 

[Conviction]

No, it's like saying that if you practice long enough, you can learn to cover and/or make up for your character's weaknesses fairly well.

It's like you are saying your character weakness don't exist/doesn't have a weakness.

 

[Mr. Johan]

I'm not quite sure what you're suggesting. Do you mean you'd want Paper Mario to just have a set of specials that use a partner's outside of battle abilities? (Like say Parakarry's is the Up special, Koops/Kooper's is a neutral one, Bobbery/Bombette is a side special, and down special would be...uh...Thudley's ground pound?)

Yes, but it doesn't have to be restricted to just specials if the development team can think of ways to incorporate the partners into PM's other moves.

I guess that could work, though I fail to see how its really any different outside of being more limited. Most of the extra platforming things don't really apply to Smash, since while there is a increased focus on platforming, it still doesn't apply to the abilities of several of the partners. Also, while I said the mechanic is similar to PT's Pokemon Change, its still inherently different in the fact that Paper Mario would stay constant outside of his specials.

From the way you're describing the partner mechanic:

Whichever partner is out at the time would determine Mario's special attacks, which he'd preform with said partner.

to me it sounds like an awful lot of coding and data would have to be implemented for every partner's attacks, walking and running animations, and so on, that would ultimately serve the same basic purpose that streamlining 1-3 partners to appear out of hammerspace per attack would make. It would be a lot more fancier and could incorporate all the partners into the fight, yes, but would it be simpler to just have a partner with a notable attack be incorporated into a single move, than to have partners out the wazoo with a custom special moveset, hitbox calibrations, and damage calculations for any given special attack?

Seaside Hill? ....please don't bring up that one big glitch they called Sonic '06. You're right about the ARK.

You're thinking of Wave Ocean. Seaside Hill is the first stage of Sonic Heroes

Yes, expect Seaside Hill.

And I believe he is referring to the Death Egg and the ARK.

 

[majora_787]

i was talking to a friend on facebook about characters and thought i would share my thoughts from there, here (with some alteration now that i've had some time to think.

i just like to stick to what would be realistic.
here is what i expect.
1) a new mario character (they always do, but they seem to be losing good options. but i could see a bowser junier/shadow mario working quite well.)
2) 1 if not a few more pokemon (there are ALOT of options, probably some of the most popular ones from the older games) edit: actually newer ones woulld have a chance to if they are popular enough
3) krystal (best option from the star fox games, and a fighting style using the staff would work great)
4) a new Ganondorf (by now Sakurai will have gotten the picture that the fans want Ganon to play like Ganon)
5) maybe an F-Zero character to replace the old Ganon (either samurai goroh or MAYBE black shadow
6) a fire emblem character (possibly Roy)
7) MAYBE an earthbound character (if they have a good option, i'm not sure if they do)
8) 1 or 2 more 3rd party characters, its really up in the air who those could be, really all depends on who they can get their hands on
9) 1 or 2 totally unsuspected characters, one being a blast from the past possibly
10) little mac has a fair chance, not a big one but a fair chance edit: maybe he has a bigger chance then i originally thought
edit:
11) who knows maybe some of the guys in that prof layton tweet might make it! my biggest wish is to see Geno make a come back :star:

1. They don't "always do".
2. ... A few? x_x
3. ... She has a very low chance of having the staff. Please tell me you know that.
4. Yep, yep...
5. F-Zero doesn't... necessarily need more characters. It should have 2 at a minimum, but it's a many-year dead series...
6. Roy's our best bet, and if not, probably Caeda.
7. ... I seriously doubt that will happen.
8. My money goes to Megaman, considering he was considered in Brawl.
9. Takamaru, possibly. No clue.
10. Eh. There are some characters who should be getting first dibs over him, but if Punch-Out gets a rep, there ya go.
11. ... Some? The only one that didn't was Geno, who's a third party character who would never be Square's first choice for a 3rd party injection... if they even GET one.

 

[Conviction]

Oh my bad again

How does Seaside hill have the same effect as City Escape and Emerald Coast?

I don't see it.

 

[Shorts]

It's like you are saying your character weakness don't exist/doesn't have a weakness.

But you can utilize your other abilities (sometimes) to make up for some of your weaknesses. If you know your weakness, you're less likely to get stuck in a situation where it will be targeted. So, with enough training/playing you can make up for your weakness with knowledge and some fancy tricks you came up with.

 

[•Col•]

It's like you are saying your character weakness don't exist/doesn't have a weakness.

Wat. Did you even read what I said?

 

[Segastorm]

Oh my bad again

How does Seaside hill have the same effect as City Escape and Emerald Coast?

I don't see it.

Well, all 3 stages were the first stages on highly desired Sonic games before they were released...so if you want the game really bad and that's the first stage you play on, you're generally going to remember that stage pretty well.

 

[Conviction]

But you can utilize your other abilities (sometimes) to make up for some of your weaknesses. If you know your weakness, you're less likely to get stuck in a situation where it will be targeted. So, with enough training/playing you can make up for your weakness with knowledge and some fancy tricks you came up with.

So, basically there is no way for your opponent to ever exploit these weakness right?

Like how Link is easily gimped in Brawl, how do you supposed to work around that?
How do you expect to work around Kirby's mutliple weakness in Melee?
Idk for 64 I don't have a good example I can think of.

 

[refugee]

it seemed to me that you thought it meant that it was the number of times it was searched. not the number of results you get. in fact it was very obvious that's what you meant. stop trying to cover your *** lmao.

and it's true you could, which is why it's not perfect. but it at least shows their relevance is at least close. and when you consider their ages... it leads one to believe that today lucario is more relevant.

note that it's also more likely that the older generation of fans (which would lead towards mewtwo) will be found on the internet more than the younger generation of fans which would lean the other way. but THERE ARE NO STATISTICS TO PROVE THAT RAWR.

Actually that's what I thought. My bad with that but you don't have to be a jerk about it.

It still doesn't prove that the character is well liked if it has a lot of results. It could just as easily be a hate thread then a thread about how cool Lucario is.

If there is no way to prove it then don't bother bringing it up then or better yet, prove it. It's simple as that.

EDIT: Lightened the tone a bit.

 

[Conviction]

Wat. Did you even read what I said?

Shhh, can't you see I'm playing Devil's Advocate with Shortie right now? Yes I read what you said.

 

[Mr. Johan]

How does Seaside hill have the same effect as City Escape and Emerald Coast?

I don't see it.

1st stage in a 3D game that incorporates multiple character playstyles, tropical/beach-like environment, it seems to take after Emerald Coast a lot, just much larger.

But that could just be personal perspective.

 

[Conviction]

Yeah, hm. I guess we argued that any farther it would end in semantics. So I call for a draw. Lol

 

[Steam]

Actually that's what I thought. My bad with that but you don't have to be a jerk about it.

It still doesn't prove that the character is well liked if it has a lot of results. It could just as easily be a hate thread then a thread about how cool Lucario is.

If there is no way to prove it then don't bother bringing it up then or better yet, prove it. It's simple as that.

EDIT: Lightened the tone a bit.

I'm going to be a jerk about it when you try to be a smart-*** about it <3

and I've said it doesn't prove it. but love/hate COULD go either way. so it does roughly prove that over time they've had a similar ammount of relevance. though mewtwo has had a much greater ammount of time to aquire discussion...

and I just bring it up when people think mewtwo will be in ahead of lucario... since if lucario was in before there isn't much of a strong reason to bring him back. it's just the other side of the argument.

 

[Shorts]

So, basically there is no way for your opponent to ever exploit these weakness right?

I never said that. All I'm saying is that you can cover up obvious weaknesses by getting better with that character. For example, that video we just saw a Mewtwo player do well against a Falcon player. With enough training he went from being as bad with Mewtwo as 99% of the Melee population is, to actually doing decently. I'm not saying "practice and all your wishes will come true!" but I am saying you can cover up some weaknesses sometimes. I never said everything is avoidable. I simply stated that some weaknesses can be hidden well/played around.

Smash has balancing Issues, whats new?

 

[Conviction]

Not to jump back into something I decided to stay out of but...

If you love or hate they character you would have to know about said character. Also then you have the age factor that Steam mentioned, Mewtwo has been out far longer than Lucario has, which in turn should mean Mewtwo has had more than enough time to gain popularity than Lucario no?

@Shortie: K. Character Choices, Stage Choices, and gameplay modes are new.

 

[MAtgSy]

Maybe Mewtwo could be the FS for PT & not a stand alone character.

 

[refugee]

I'm going to be a jerk about it when you try to be a smart-*** about it <3

and I've said it doesn't prove it. but love/hate COULD go either way. so it does roughly prove that over time they've had a similar ammount of relevance. though mewtwo has had a much greater ammount of time to aquire discussion...

and I just bring it up when people think mewtwo will be in ahead of lucario... since if lucario was in before there isn't much of a strong reason to bring him back. it's just the other side of the argument.

There you go again. How about you try stop cursing at least.

Also a greater amount of time for discussion to die down too so I don't see your point.

If you had something to back up your claims it wouldn't be a problem but you never do and then argue about it when it's a reasonable request to have a base for your claims.

 

[Pieman0920]

Yes, but it doesn't have to be restricted to just specials if the development team can think of ways to incorporate the partners into PM's other moves.

Well, while I think its possible to do that with practically all of his moves, I'd prefer if they let Paper Mario keeps his normal moves to prove that he's the one actually doing the fighting, rather than say what PT does.

From the way you're describing the partner mechanic: to me it sounds like an awful lot of coding and data would have to be implemented for every partner's attacks, walking and running animations, and so on, that would ultimately serve the same basic purpose that streamlining 1-3 partners to appear out of hammerspace per attack would make. It would be a lot more fancier and could incorporate all the partners into the fight, yes, but would it be simpler to just have a partner with a notable attack be incorporated into a single move, than to have partners out the wazoo with a custom special moveset, hitbox calibrations, and damage calculations for any given special attack?

It probably would be a lot of coding, even with the lack of regular moves, but I'm assuming it won't be an issue with the WiiU.

But after that, I kind of lost you. Mind rephrasing that? I'm not quite sure who you're saying has partners out of the wazoo, when I'm just saying it should be 3 partners max. (Which would mean about 6 extra moves in total for the one character, though the coding would be more complex given the walking, jumping, and other general movement requirements.)

 

[Mr. Johan]

Yeah, hm. I guess we argued that any farther it would end in semantics. So I call for a draw. Lol

Stemming from that though, City Escape is the odd man out of the trifecta of stages I pointed out. City-based stage with actual civilization evident, the first lyrical background song used in a Sonic stage (to my knowledge, aside from Eggman's laughs in boss stages in 3D Blast and CD), it sticks out from Emerald Coast and Seaside Hill to the public eye.

Add in the fact the stage is getting a refreshment in Generations, I wouldn't be surprised if the stage was brought in for SSB4, with the GUN truck gimmick and all.

 

[kackamee]

I think some people are too far into the wish zone when it comes to their character lists o:
I'd personally be okay if we just got most of the people you guys are recommending as assist trophies, but idk.

Also would you guys want Pit to stay the same as he is (of course being balanced around the new game)
Or would you want him to have new moves in reflection of his new game?
Personally I like the way he is now, I don't really want him to have a ray gun or anything.

 

[refugee]

Not to jump back into something I decided to stay out of but...

If you love or hate they character you would have to know about said character. Also then you have the age factor that Steam mentioned, Mewtwo has been out far longer than Lucario has, which in turn should mean Mewtwo has had more than enough time to gain popularity than Lucario no?

@Shortie: K. Character Choices, Stage Choices, and gameplay modes are new.

So the older something is the more popularity it acquires? Often it's the other way around. The older it gets the more it's popularity dwindles (like disco for example).

 

[Conviction]

Stemming from that though, City Escape is the odd man out of the trifecta of stages I pointed out. City-based stage with actual civilization evident, the first lyrical background song used in a Sonic stage (to my knowledge, aside from Eggman's laughs in boss stages in 3D Blast and CD), it sticks out from Emerald Coast and Seaside Hill to the public eye.

Add in the fact the stage is getting a refreshment in Generations, I wouldn't be surprised if the stage was brought in for SSB4, with the GUN truck gimmick and all.

I think there was a Knukcles song in one of the Sonic&Knuckles series stage.

Yes I completely agree though, I wonder how they would make the truck gimmick work. Unless they want to make it a moving stage, introducing some new type of gameplay that let's you periodically ride the broken piece from the helicopter in the stage.

@Refugee, I don't think I mentioned popularity at all, if I did, I meant to say how well known. To love or hate something you have know it was my base of my post.

Opps I did mention it.

 

[Shorts]

So the older something is the more popularity it acquires? Often it's the other way around. The older it gets the more it's popularity dwindles (like disco for example).

I see where you're going with this and I think it should just stop at the fact that:

A. So long as people are able to go back and play older pokemon games/melee/stadium, and are able to watch older pokemon movies/anime mewtwo will always be more popular. He has a larger fanbase by the sheer years he has on Lucario. Not to mention Lucario has much much less of a chance at being a pokemon event than Mewtwo. Mewtwo is more popular, that's just that.

Also, if you look at Mario, it's been 20 years and Goomba is still as common of an enemy as ever. I don't think Music is comparable to Pokemon in the sense you're using. videogames are a lot less fickle than Music.

 

[Steam]

There you go again. How about you try stop cursing at least.

Also a greater amount of time for discussion to die down too so I don't see your point.

If you had something to back up your claims it wouldn't be a problem but you never do and then argue about it when it's a reasonable request to have a base for your claims.

yeah discussion did die down. but those results include discussion that happened then AND now. pretty much meaning lucario is more discussed than mewtwo ever was... though regardless what matters is what's happening here and now. and lucario clearly is more relevant right now.

and I suppose I'll use the google battle as a base, it's just as valid if not more valid than anything else you've presnted.

@shortie- Just beceause something is older doesn't mean it's more popular. Fans aren't fans forever and people DO lose interest over time. that's... really bad logic lol

 

[Mr. Johan]

Well, while I think its possible to do that with practically all of his moves, I'd prefer if they let Paper Mario keeps his normal moves to prove that he's the one actually doing the fighting, rather than say what PT does.

I agree with you, PM should have some of his own attacks. But I believe that if the opportunity presents itself to use a partner for a non-special attack, it should be implemented to make PM more fleshed out, i.e. Paper Mario having a ranged grab due to using Throh for his grab.

It probably would be a lot of coding, even with the lack of regular moves, but I'm assuming it won't be an issue with the WiiU.

Probably, but it would be data and coding that could be used toward something else, like stage codes, physics implementations, song choices, more special rules for matches, etc.

But after that, I kind of lost you. Mind rephrasing that? I'm not quite sure who you're saying has partners out of the wazoo, when I'm just saying it should be 3 partners max. (Which would mean about 6 extra moves in total for the one character, though the coding would be more complex given the walking, jumping, and other general movement requirements.)

I guess at that point I didn't read thoroughly enough and just overestimated what you were suggesting. My mistake.

I think there was a Knukcles song in one of the Sonic&Knuckles series stage.

No Knuckles song, but derp, I forgot the Sonic 3 miniboss theme. Though that may not be lyrical so as much as it groovy musical scat.

Yes I completely agree though, I wonder how they would make the truck gimmick work. Unless they want to make it a moving stage, introducing some new type of gameplay that let's you periodically ride the broken piece from the helicopter in the stage.

The new City Escape has the GUN Truck go all out and destroy buildings and structures on the stage. Maybe the GUN Truck could charge into the stage from the background and cause the stage to change and damage characters if it's in the truck's path.

 

[Shorts]

relivance does not equal popularity.

 

[refugee]

yeah discussion did die down. but those results include discussion that happened then AND now. pretty much meaning lucario is more discussed than mewtwo ever was... though regardless what matters is what's happening here and now. and lucario clearly is more relevant right now.

and I suppose I'll use the google battle as a base, it's just as valid if not more valid than anything else you've presnted.

No it just means the internet was lees popular when Mewtwo was around then now. If you use that as a base it'll be a very faulty one.

 

[majora_787]

... Well as much as I would love to walk right into an argument, I figured I'd show you guys this as a really broad nature of character discussion.

http://majsmademoves.webs.com/

This is my page for Make Your Move, where you can see suggestions I've made for some weird characters.

Not sure how good I am at making characters creative and worthwhile, but I think I do a good enough job... Maybe...

 

[Steam]

No it just means the internet was lees popular when Mewtwo was around then now. If you use that as a base it'll be a very faulty one.

that's true. but it's no more faulty than any other.

and even if you assume ALL of the discussion is occuring now, lucario is still slightly more relevant. lmao, though at least a good part of those hits occured from 1996-2006

 

[Glöwworm]

Dear Sakurai,

Please allow Ganondorf to use his sword in Smash 4

Thanks

 

[kackamee]

Dear Sakurai,

Please allow Ganondorf to use his sword in Smash 4

Thanks

Dear everyone that wanted Ganondorf to use his sword in Smash 4,


Sorry, there was no time.

Sakurai 7/28/13

 

[Gamingboy]

Dear everyone that wanted Ganondorf to use his sword in Smash 4,


Sorry, there was no time.

Sakurai 7/28/13

I have to admit, I chuckled at this. Did he say the same thing for the fact Luigi didn't have E. Gadd's vacuum?