New Smash Bros for WiiU

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Black Knight is rather unlikely.

Spoiler

He may have been Ike's enemy, but his fate was sealed in Radiant Dawn.

You know I did think about this to, but most Antagonists have their fates sealed...in other topic , guys do you think Ike was made for SSB ?

Spoiler

Ike after he finished his game he left on a journey to a unknown lands

 

[majora_787]

Doesn't stop anything.

Spoiler

We've killed Ganon twice.

Not having new games might be problematic.

Ganondorf follows his own rules regarding dying. Black Knight isn't quite as... persistent. Or important to his series.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Black Knight is rather unlikely.

Spoiler

He may have been Ike's enemy, but his fate was sealed in Radiant Dawn.

So what?

I don't think it plays a factor at all, heck look at Snake, he is "currently" aged up as an old man, but yet Sakurai included him from MGS2.

That point doesn't seem viable.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Ganondorf follows his own rules regarding dying. Black Knight isn't quite as... persistent. Or important to his series.

Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power, which enables him to live, even when fatally wounded. The Black Knight doesn't have that capability.

So what?

I don't think it plays a factor at all, heck look at Snake, he is "currently" aged up as an old man, but yet Sakurai included him from MGS2.

That point doesn't seem viable.

MGS4 was released after Brawl though.

 

[majora_787]

Ganondorf has the Triforce of Power, which enables him to live, even when fatally wounded. The Black Knight doesn't have that capability.

But really, that isn't what makes the Black Knight less worthy.

The problem is, not only is he essentially what GANONDORF should be like, he's also only the villain of two Fire Emblem games that are not even the most recent.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

But really, that isn't what makes the Black Knight less worthy.

The problem is, not only is he essentially what GANONDORF should be like, he's also only the villain of two Fire Emblem games that are not even the most recent.

Radiant Dawn is considered the most recent original Fire Emblem.... DS games were a remake...it's not counted.

 

[majora_787]

Radiant Dawn is considered the most recent original Fire Emblem.... DS games were a remake...it's not counted.

<_< I love how people don't count games unless it helps their point. We're talking a redo of a game that was for the NES that never even existed outside of Japan until it was "remade".

 

[Thino]

Smash characters are never totally canon to their series anyway

remember.. RIDLEY IS TOO BIG .. oh , or is that the wrong example...

 

[majora_787]

It's honestly pointless to ask for anything like canon in Smash Bros.

But it'd just be a lot more productive to make Ganondorf a dark magic sword user, and add a more current Fire Emblem character. We kill two birds with one stone.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

<_< I love how people don't count games unless it helps their point. We're talking a redo of a game that was for the NES that never even existed outside of Japan until it was "remade".

The remakes barely has anything new even rescue option wasn't implemented. and Sakurai wouldn't give a **** about foreign gamers all of his choices were based on Japanese characters popularity.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Smash characters are never totally canon to their series anyway

remember.. RIDLEY IS TOO BIG .. oh , or is that the wrong example...

That again is not a valid excuse. Bowser has been big as well, but his size has been modified at times, especially for spin-offs. That should be no different for Ridley; think about the Melee opening.

 

[User33]

Radiant Dawn is considered the most recent original Fire Emblem.... DS games were a remake...it's not counted.

The DS games certainly are counted. You can't just "not count" games because it suits your argument. Besides, Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn both sold horribly in Japan. It wasn't until Shadow Dragon and New Mystery when the sales for the series reached respectable levels again.

Also, if Sakurai really wanted a character from Radiant Dawn in Smash Bros, he would have put them in Brawl. He's not going to start adding older characters from the series that are becoming less and less relevant.

tldr: Black Knight or any other Radiant Dawn character will not be in SSB4.

 

[Thino]

That again is not a valid excuse. Bowser has been big as well, but his size has been modified at times, especially for spin-offs. That should be no different for Ridley; think about the Melee opening.

that was the point I was trying to make , sorry for my sarcasm

 

[majora_787]

The remakes barely has anything new even rescue option wasn't implemented. and Sakurai wouldn't give a **** about foreign gamers all of his choices were based on Japanese characters popularity.

You do realize how untrue that is, right? International opinion is always taken into consideration for an international release. Whether or not it's taken into heavy consideration depends, but it's always taken into consideration.

If we were talking Japanese popularity, I would say that Samus actually has a chance of getting cut sooner or later. More of a chance than Jigglypuff, Ness, Lucas, or Lucario, anyway. r_r

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

The DS games certainly are counted. You can't just "not count" games because it suits your argument. Besides, Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn both sold horribly in Japan. It wasn't until Shadow Dragon and New Mystery when the sales for the series reached respectable levels again.

Also, if Sakurai really wanted a character from Radiant Dawn in Smash Bros, he would have put them in Brawl. He's not going to start adding older characters from the series that are becoming less and less relevant.

tldr: Black Knight or any other Radiant Dawn character will not be in SSB4.

Do you know that Brawl was based over past gen (which I mean Game cube generation) characters ? and melee did to.

 

[User33]

Do you know that Brawl was based over last gen characters ? and melee did to.

Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn were both released well in advance of Brawl. Note that every single character from Brawl appeared in a game between the release of Melee and the release of Brawl with the exception of Pit for obvious reasons. If Sakurai wanted to include a character from Radiant Dawn, he would have done so in Brawl.

Now that there are new games in the series (two in fact), Sakurai will most likely look to those games for new Fire Emblem characters. Not Radiant Dawn.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

You do realize how untrue that is, right? International opinion is always taken into consideration for an international release. Whether or not it's taken into heavy consideration depends, but it's always taken into consideration.

If we were talking Japanese popularity, I would say that Samus actually has a chance of getting cut sooner or later. More of a chance than Jigglypuff, Ness, Lucas, or Lucario, anyway. r_r

When it comes to Fire Emblem the Japanese opinions matter.

 

[majora_787]

Do you know that Brawl was based over past gen (which I mean Game cube generation) characters ? and melee did to.

Brawl entered development in 2007. New additions included VERY new characters, such as Ike, Lucas, and Lucario, from that very generation. Olimar was probably the only "prior generation" character they added. Pit, Zamus, Wolf, and the others are older than that.

 

[OmegaXXII]

MGS4 was released after Brawl though.

Not it wasn't, it was MGS4 was finishing up development during the same time Brawl was in it's final development, plus ever see "MGS4 Love theme"? That should have gave it away.

 

[majora_787]

When it comes to Fire Emblem, the Japanese DO have an important opinion. And their opinion is that Radiant Dawn and Path of Radiance are not worth it. At all.

=\ SO there we go. Conversation over. Moving on.

Are there ANY first-party whip characters? I can't think of one off the top of my head... I know one from Sega, one from Konami... but not one from Nintendo.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn were both released well in advance of Brawl. Note that every single character from Brawl appeared in a game between the release of Melee and the release of Brawl with the exception of Pit for obvious reasons. If Sakurai wanted to include a character from Radiant Dawn, he would have done so in Brawl.

Now that there are new games in the series (two in fact), Sakurai will most likely look to those games for new Fire Emblem characters. Not Radiant Dawn.

These two games present a character that is already in brawl and Radiant Dawn didn't have big share and the fact that it has so many main characters that you will be confused who to choose from. In conclusion Fire Emblem isn't that popular to have a character that's not a Main protagonist or antagonist into SSB.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Not it wasn't, it was MGS4 was finishing up development during the same time Brawl was in it's final development, plus ever see "MGS4 Love theme"? That should have gave it away.

When I checked the release dates, MGS4 was released in June 2008, three months after Brawl. The MGS4 stuff had to be for advertisements, similar to how Roy was in Melee to represent an upcoming Fire Emblem title.

 

[majora_787]

These two games present a character that is already in brawl and Radiant Dawn didn't have big share and the fact that it has so many main characters that you will be confused who to choose from. In conclusion Fire Emblem isn't that popular to have a character that's not a Main protagonist or Anragonist into SSB.

Exactly. Which is why, if we ever do get a new Fire Emblem character/... not counting the return of Roy for whatever reason, it'd probably be Caeda.

Andando Avanti.

 

[Starphoenix]

I'm going to end this FE discussion. Nobody from the GC FE era is getting into Smash 4, period. The games sold horribly, the Japanese fanbase abhor them, and we have Ike who is more than enough. The two DS games don't really bring much to the table as we have Marth already. The likely "new" FE character we will see is a revamped Roy. Anything else is not happening.

 

[majora_787]

I'm going to end this FE discussion. Nobody from the GC FE era is getting into Smash 4, period. The games sold horribly, the Japanese fanbase abhor them, and we have Ike who is more than enough. The two DS games don't really bring much to the table as we have Marth already. The likely "new" FE character we will see is a revamped Roy. Anything else is not happening.

Even Roy isn't THAT likely right now. But yes, moving on.

Back to 1st party whip characters? <_< I seriously can only think of one from Sega and one from Konami. Are there any first party options?

 

[User33]

These two games present a character that is already in brawl and Radiant Dawn didn't have big share and the fact that it has so many main characters that you will be confused who to choose from. In conclusion Fire Emblem isn't that popular to have a character that's not a Main protagonist or antagonist into SSB.

I don't think I ever claimed otherwise, weren't we arguing about whether a Radiant Dawn character is likely or not?

Really, in conclusion Sakurai isn't going to pick a character from a game that is less recent and less popular than the DS games.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Exactly. Which is why, if we ever do get a new Fire Emblem character/... not counting the return of Roy for whatever reason, it'd probably be Caeda.

Andando Avanti.

When I mean Main character, I mean the following:

His/Her Death has measure circumstances that will change the game flow.

Main Protagonist die = Game Over

Main Antagonist die = Game completed

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

I don't think I ever claimed otherwise, weren't we arguing about whether a Radiant Dawn character is likely or not?

Really, in conclusion Sakurai isn't going to pick a character from a game that is less recent and less popular than the DS games.

Ok give me a character that is in your mind that meet the Main protagonist qualities in the latest game .

 

[majora_787]

When I mean Main character, I mean the following:

His/Her Death has measure circumstances that will change the game flow.

Main Protagonist die = Game Over

Main Antagonist die = Game completed

Caeda's essentially the secondary protagonist and her death effects the ending. But it's not important. r_r

 

[User33]

I'm going to end this FE discussion. Nobody from the GC FE era is getting into Smash 4, period. The games sold horribly, the Japanese fanbase abhor them, and we have Ike who is more than enough. The two DS games don't really bring much to the table as we have Marth already. The likely "new" FE character we will see is a revamped Roy. Anything else is not happening.

Discounting the DS games seems silly. You could make the same argument that "Donkey Kong Country doesn't bring much to the table as we already have Diddy Kong" or "Star Fox 64 doesn't bring much to the table as we already have Fox" for Melee.

If we are getting a new Fire Emblem character, Caeda and Gharnef at least have slight chances for being the sidekick and antagonist in both games. Of course if a new Fire Emblem game releases in the near future, the main character from it will have the highest chance.

 

[Starphoenix]

Even Roy isn't THAT likely right now. But yes, moving on.

Back to 1st party whip characters? <_< I seriously can only think of one from Sega and one from Konami. Are there any first party options?

Well Roy might could get in because alongside Mewtwo he may not have been intended to be cut. He (and Mewtwo) could be a part of that stuff Sakurai wanted but couldn't add into Brawl.

As for whip users, Link has a whip in Skyward Sword so...

 

[Pseudomaniac]

Even Roy isn't THAT likely right now. But yes, moving on.

Back to 1st party whip characters? <_< I seriously can only think of one from Sega and one from Konami. Are there any first party options?

I can't either. Speaking of Konami's whip fighter though, I think Simon Belmont would be awesome in Smash Bros. If Konami gets a second character it should, IMO, be Belmont rather than another Metal Gear character.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Caeda's essentially the secondary protagonist and her death effects the ending. But it's not important. r_r

See told you.

Black Knight's death is inevitable for the game....

Sothe's death meant game over in the first part....

Lyn's death meant Game over....

Ashnard's death is essential...

Ike's death is game over...


and the list go on these the qualities of character for SSB.

 

[Starphoenix]

Discounting the DS games seems silly. You could make the same argument that "Donkey Kong Country doesn't bring much to the table as we already have Diddy Kong" or "Star Fox 64 doesn't bring much to the table as we already have Fox" for Melee.

If we are getting a new Fire Emblem character, Caeda and Gharnef at least have slight chances for being the sidekick and antagonist in both games. Of course if a new Fire Emblem game releases in the near future, the main character from it will have the highest chance.

Not discounting them, if you have been on the old SSB4 you'd know I've advocated for Caeda as the next likely new Fire Emblem character. Problem is the only pattern we have is the three characters we have seen implemented are all Lord class. Even though she is a princess she isn't considered a lord. She is a pseudo-lord. So based upon the precedent I still believe Roy has more priority over her.

 

[User33]

See told you.

Black Knight's death is inevitable for the game....

Sothe's death meant game over in the first part....

Lyn's death meant Game over....

Ashnard's death is essential...

Ike's death is game over...


and the list go on these the qualities of character for SSB.

First of all, the game is not completed when you kill the Black Knight.

Second of all, we've had three Fire Emblem characters appear in Smash. Hardly enough to derive a pattern from.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

Discounting the DS games seems silly. You could make the same argument that "Donkey Kong Country doesn't bring much to the table as we already have Diddy Kong" or "Star Fox 64 doesn't bring much to the table as we already have Fox" for Melee.

If we are getting a new Fire Emblem character, Caeda and Gharnef at least have slight chances for being the sidekick and antagonist in both games. Of course if a new Fire Emblem game releases in the near future, the main character from it will have the highest chance.

BTW I didn't want to say that but Caeda is a Pegasus knight which is a bit ******** to include....the horse must have his own frames ,Caeda has her own frame and it's not Ideal if by any chance a character would be chosen it will be either the Customizable character from Mystery of the emblem as a Hero or Ogma....

 

[majora_787]

Well Roy might could get in because alongside Mewtwo he may not have been intended to be cut. He (and Mewtwo) could be a part of that stuff Sakurai wanted but couldn't add into Brawl.

As for whip users, Link has a whip in Skyward Sword so...

Well, maybe Link can have a special or something. But I mean a character who uses one as their deliberate moveset, not simply a choice tool.

EDIT: ... Are you st-- ... Do you seriously think they would have a character fighting on horseback? That would just be... obscenely silly and ridiculous for so many reasons. Why not just make Torahime a playable character on horseback, make it REALLY silly?

 

[Starphoenix]

First of all, the game is not completed when you kill the Black Knight.

Second of all, we've had three Fire Emblem characters appear in Smash. Hardly enough to derive a pattern from.

Considering the total a series has had is 5 characters max (Mario), I'd say it a better indicator than none.

Well, maybe Link can have a special or something. But I mean a character who uses one as their deliberate moveset, not simply a choice tool.

Ah, but you didn't say that. You said what first party character USES a whip. Well Link does.

 

[xXIke-SamaXx]

You know I'd rather have Fire Emblem fighting game that has them all that would be damn awesome.

 

[Berserker.]

Even Roy isn't THAT likely right now. But yes, moving on.

Back to 1st party whip characters? <_< I seriously can only think of one from Sega and one from Konami. Are there any first party options?

I don't know about the 1st party. In fact, I don't know any other 3rd party that will be in SSB 4. Maybe Sonic, Snake and Mega Man.

Well, maybe Link can have a special or something. But I mean a character who uses one as their deliberate moveset, not simply a choice tool.

I think his whip should be his new grab. Wait... Does he have his hook shot/grapple hook in skyward sword?