New Smash Bros for WiiU

[OmegaXXII]

He may not have gotten into Melee but we would have gotten an unique Ganondorf in Brawl.

His playstyle most certainly is in need of a change and tier does matter. Having played with Ganondorf, I can safely say that he plays terribly in comparison to other players. Being the King of Evil yet being at the bottom of Brawl's tierlist does not represent who Ganondorf is. If Ganondorf is a clone of Captain Falcon again, people are going to hate it even more, they aren't going to just accept Ganondorf being a clone for the rest of the series. Also, if it's possible to change a move, it is possible to change an entire move set.

Agreed, Ganondorf ha a vast majority of moveset potentials to choose from, he could either use his sword, have it implemented as a special move, or simply a mix of both dark magic as well as brutal moveset consisting of a sword.

The point stands clear, he definitely has alot to go by as far as uniqueness goes, if Sakurai screwed it up once again, fans will certainly outrage over it, its been two games already, no need to follow the same formula, there's no excuse this time around for him not to be unique from Captain Falcon.

 

[Big-Cat]

Random meaning your playstyle? If so, thats important: Forget the H8TRs

I think the best way to describe my playstyle is "Insane with a Purpose". I'll do things that don't make a whole lot of sense or will just annoy you to death. After a while, once I get in, I ask these questions.

What have I done so far?
What haven't I done so far?
What has he done so far?
What hasn't he done so far?
What are his character's options, including meter.
How much health do we both have.

Answering those questions quickly give me an approximation for what to do next. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem a lot of the local players realize you need to be unpredictable.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

AKA

"TOSTADAAAAAAAAAAAAA PRESS!"

"YAAAA!"

"YAAAA!"

Smooth Criminal

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGo.

 

[Big-Cat]

There was a lot of trial and error, but this way of thinking I mentioned is actually only recent as it really only showed up this year. In a sense, you can call it enlightenment.

Also, if these last couple of posts are any indication, I love mixups. This is why the Krystal, Nook, and Muddy Mole movesets all feature some type of mixup.

 

[Conviction]

I'm sorry Kuma. I meant you then. LOL

Wait you play "Super Blocking isn't Broken 4 but Yun Twins Are Edition"? Either way welcome to community if you decide to join.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm sorry Kuma. I meant you then. LOL

Wait you play "Super Blocking isn't Broken 4 but Yun Twins Are Edition"? Either way welcome to community if you decide to join.

If you never noticed my sig, yes I do. While I enjoy that the game is more aggressive, the twins, especially Yun, are pure bull****.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGo.

 

[Conviction]

Oh word. Well either way your train of thought works really well in the Smash community. (That's how to game is supposed to be played take away some SF elements and replace them with Smash elements)

 

[ssbowns]

We don't need an overfill of third-party characters. Only ones with a good history with Nintendo and ones that are very popular should be in (That means no Travis Touchdown). Nintendo main focus should be their own characters and once they run out of good video game characters, they need to pull the plug on the series, not fill the other spots with third-party companies.

Can you honestly say you aren't one bit curious or interested in having the bottom row of character selection screen consist of something like:
EA, Activision, UbiSoft, Valve, Capcom, Square-enix, 2K, Tecmo, Sega, Konami, Namco, THQ, Sony, Microsoft.
They could even leave the characters unnamed and refer to them simply as EA or Ubi representative (congress lol).

Plus are you confident Sakurai or whoever's at charge at that point will pull the plug. Even with perfect Nintendo roster I can see all sorts of updates, minigames, new modes etc. One of those later things could be bringing in more 3rd party crew.

@nLiM8d: Plenty. Ridley, Krool, Little Mac, Advance wars and Golden sun reps, Dog hunt dog, more Pokemon and even a couple of Mario characters... Yea all of them aren't wanted by everyone and all of them might not be viable to be playable characters but they're very central part of Nintendo.

I'd say we're much smarter after SSB4. If it has Dixie, Ridley, K Rool, Mac, AW and GS reps plus around 8-10 other characters we might be starting to grasp for straws when thinking about the final pieces of roster for SSB5.

 

[OmegaXXII]

What differences are there between the Fighter scene and Smash community? at least when it comes to technical skill? mindgaming an opponent?

 

[Conviction]

It's more of the core physics of the games that makes it different but you still have cross-ups, camping, approaches, mix-ups and the such in both.

Well damn, my vid is up

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGo.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

This game will fail online-wise.

 

[Conviction]

@ssbowns: As it was touched on earlier, none of our predictions are necessarily shoe ins. The characters that you mentioned are complicated matters in some form or another. Not to say its a certified observation, its just the way things are.

@Iblis: I thought I've noticed a pattern, you've got to learn to improve your back game. Utilize shielding as a cover if you have to.

As in cross-ups?

This game will fail online-wise.

O. I didn't know Nintendo was lying about having online on par or better than the PS3. Thank you based god.

 

[OmegaXXII]

It's more of the core physics of the games that makes it different but you still have cross-ups, camping, approaches, mix-ups and the such in both.

Well damn, my vid is up

What happened bro? I thought you would have owed? Your defensive game could use some improving

On Topic: How would Online fail?, if anything it has room for improvement, check out Operation Connect and help contribute for possibly improving online. Check my sig.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

You need to grab more, Iblis.

Take advantage of the free damage that is Fox's grab-and-pummel.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Conviction]

>.< everyone tells me to grab more. I guess I don't get it then because everytime I feel like I'm grabbing more people tell me I'm still not LOL

That's only the fist vid I got like....11 more.

 

[Oasis_S]

@ssbowns: As it was touched on earlier, none of our predictions are necessarily shoe ins. The characters that you mentioned are complicated matters in some form or another. Not to say its a certified observation, its just the way things are.

It's a bit of a stretch to say Dixie is the only uncontroversial character though. :/

Unless I just missed the point of what you were saying, lol.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGo.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

I don't understand why online is wrong in their eyes.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Nintendo is definetly old style when it comes to Online, but I believe the Wii-U might actually be on par with PS3/360 this time around, mainly I strive in having no lag, up to date patches and of course voice chat.

Also I hope it never catches on to what XBox Live is doing and the so called "PS3 pass"

 

[Conviction]

I see it.

 

[ssbowns]

@ssbowns: As it was touched on earlier, none of our predictions are necessarily shoe ins. The characters that you mentioned are complicated matters in some form or another. Not to say its a certified observation, its just the way things are.

True, but if we don't get any of them in SSB4 who will we get? I can't imagine there are many popular and workable characters we are missing. No point in getting hopes too high but I think people here are still a bit too careful.

I can see why Brawl didn't get Ripley or Mac because we were still missing Wario, Diddy, Kid Icarus rep and Fox and Kirby antgonists plus whoever I'm forgetting. Those are all important characters so pushing Ridley aside for a while isn't all that frightening to me.

Sure Sakurai might add just 1-5 new characters but I feel that would cause a huge backslash from critics and common gamers. Combined with Sakurai taking his sweet time planning the roster and developing the game I believe he has more in store than max 5 newcomers.

Really if we look outside the box and believe that Ridley, K Rool, Mac, Toad, Paper Mario, Bowser jr, Black Knight, Advance Wars/Golden Sun/Dog Hunt/whatever important rep isn't going to get in then who could?

 

[Starphoenix]

Hey, whomever has that Slime and Chocobo "Come At Me Bro" picture. Will you PM me the link, pretty please with a cherry on top?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Hey, whomever has that Slime and Chocobo "Come At Me Bro" picture. Will you PM me the link, pretty please with a cherry on top?

It shall be done!!

 

[Deleted member]

@SSBFan: How many deserving Nintendo slots are left? Lets be realistic here, really, dixie is the only uncontroversial character left and she's on hard times right now.

I don't see many controversy about King K. Rool's, Ray (Custom Robo)'s, Starfy's, Saki Amamiya's, Isaac's or Little Mac's appearance. IMO, these are the remaining deserving characters. Those along with Ridley, Victini (IMO), Paper Mario (IMO) Medusa, and Takamaru I think deserves to be playable in SSB4.

Can you honestly say you aren't one bit curious or interested in having the bottom row of character selection screen consist of something like:
EA, Activision, UbiSoft, Valve, Capcom, Square-enix, 2K, Tecmo, Sega, Konami, Namco, THQ, Sony, Microsoft.
They could even leave the characters unnamed and refer to them simply as EA or Ubi representative (congress lol).

Plus are you confident Sakurai or whoever's at charge at that point will pull the plug. Even with perfect Nintendo roster I can see all sorts of updates, minigames, new modes etc. One of those later things could be bringing in more 3rd party crew.

- I support Konami, Sega, Capcom, Square-Enix, Tecmo, Level-5 and maybe Namco and Ubisoft having reps, but go beyond those companies and I find it flat-out necessary. Ask yourself this; do we seriously want Master Chief, Ratchet, or Gordon to be playable in SSB4? There are next to zero serious requests for any of these characters and for good reasons. Even the ones I support should not go all-in with SSB4, but rather gradually added over time with 1-2 per installment.

- Once we run out of good Nintendo characters, adding more characters would defeat the purpose of Nintendo All-Star. Duking it out with Nintendo characters is the main point of the series and I would hate for that to be neglected.

 

[GunmasterLombardi]

Nintendo is definetly old style when it comes to Online, but I believe the Wii-U might actually be on par with PS3/360 this time around, mainly I strive in having no lag, up to date patches and of course voice chat.

Also I hope it never catches on to what XBox Live is doing and the so called "PS3 pass"

I don't think they'll be willing to make patches. They could've done it with Brawl but the game was playable so they wouldn't care about being broken.

That's Nintendo for you.

 

[Big-Cat]

I'm going to start referring you as Zen-oSo as you have that presence about you these days.

Would you happen to be messaging us from under a waterfall somewhere in the mountains of Japan?

Spoiler

Couldn't resit

Really now? Well, I've always been one to start philosophical discussions. And no, I'm not in Japan. If my legs weren't sore from doing one of Chun-Li's supers at work last night, I'd be practicing my stances for the fall.

Oh word. Well either way your train of thought works really well in the Smash community. (That's how to game is supposed to be played take away some SF elements and replace them with Smash elements)

With the case of Nook, I actually Smashified once concept of SF and traditional fighters - the corner. The leaf drop and pitfall moves are supposed to act as pseudo-corners.

What differences are there between the Fighter scene and Smash community? at least when it comes to technical skill? mindgaming an opponent?

Both types of games ask for different types of skills. The former has special move canceling (which I think should be in Smash as it defined combos in the first place) and chains in particular (another thing I'd like in). Canceling in general is the most of your technical skill, and then there are links.

For mindgaming, it's different, yet similar. In both games, you must mixup your approaching and okizeme, but how those go about are different.

It's more of the core physics of the games that makes it different but you still have cross-ups, camping, approaches, mix-ups and the such in both.

Well damn, my vid is up

What cross-ups in Smash? I'm curious.

 

[Deleted member]

I don't think they'll be willing to make patches. They could've done it with Brawl but the game was playable so they wouldn't care about being broken.

That's Nintendo for you.

That's because almost all games on the Wii aren't capable of this. I am sure that many games on the Wii-U will support patches, so I wouldn't be surprise if we get patches for this game.

 

[OmegaXXII]

That's because Nintendo didn't give a **** about online when the Wii was barely released, it could have been so much better IF some effort would have been put towards online play

 

[Deleted member]

That's because Nintendo didn't give a **** about online when the Wii was barely released, it could have been so much better IF some effort would have been put towards online play

I thought the online for the Wii was decent, but that's my opinion. Still, I will agree that Nintendo needs to have a much better online structure if it expects to compete with Sony and Microsoft. Hopefully by Nintendo's comment that is the case.

Hey, whomever has that Slime and Chocobo "Come At Me Bro" picture. Will you PM me the link, pretty please with a cherry on top?

I'll go look for it.

 

[Oasis_S]

It's probably a bit too hopeful that suddenly Nintendo will understand everything about a good online experience and make WiiU's online like Live.

Maybe they will, I dunno. :/

@SSBF: NO NEED.

 

[nLiM8d]

Edited by xeGo.

 

[Conviction]

What cross-ups in Smash? I'm curious.

Anything that puts you behind your opponent. So foward roll and empty short hop. If the opponent doesn't shield while you are Empty short hopping, throw out an aerial. If they do shield you end up having positional and frame advantage.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I thought the online for the Wii was decent, but that's my opinion. Still, I will agree that Nintendo needs to have a much better online structure if it expects to compete with Sony and Microsoft. Hopefully by Nintendo's comment that is the case.I'll go look for it.

I'm just hoping for DLC content, game patches, minimal to no lag, and of course features such as leaderboards, voice chat, and lobbies.

Don't bother looking, Oasis already beat me to it

 

[Conviction]

Kuma is there the concept of Stage Control in SF?

 

[SmashChu]

Remember, you did say he has a sword and Ganondorf is shown using a sword as a taunt move in Brawl. My point being, he has potentials to be unique.

He may not have gotten into Melee but we would have gotten an unique Ganondorf in Brawl.

His playstyle most certainly is in need of a change and tier does matter. Having played with Ganondorf, I can safely say that he plays terribly in comparison to other players. Being the King of Evil yet being at the bottom of Brawl's tierlist does not represent who Ganondorf is. If Ganondorf is a clone of Captain Falcon again, people are going to hate it even more, they aren't going to just accept Ganondorf being a clone for the rest of the series. Also, if it's possible to change a move, it is possible to change an entire move set.

Well, let's think about the sword thing first. He has that as a taunt in Brawl and a victory pose in Melee. But he never uses it. Why? That's the think. Think more why and not "It should be." He had it in Melee and Sakurai has said he would have not been in otherwise. So that explains Melee. But why Brawl? One thing Sakurai does well is he understands that people who play with Ganondorf enjoy how he plays and he sees no reason to alienate those people by totally changing the character.

I never got this whole "Every character has to be unique thing." It's not like there is a lack of variety and many people will tell you that these characters are still very different. Sakurai even went and made a lot of the old Melee clones different. Ganondorf has quite a few new moves as does Falco. Toon Link is totally different from Young Link and Link. Sakurai is more conserned with making characters work which is why some characters have similar special moves. They make the character more down to earth. Could he change them more? Sure. But he doesn't need to totally revamp characters so some players can say the game has more variety and never touch those characters.

Also, tier list don't matter. Sakurai has said that online the success rate for characters is about even and 95% or more of the players don't care.

While he may not have used a sword in pre-WW games, he definitely had a trident as Ganon in LttP and two swords in OoT as Ganon. I think a lot of people are rather ticked that someone with as much prestige and effect of gaming has been reduced to a clone of someone from a completely different game.

True, but at the same time, he never used a trident in any game as Ganondorf.

He pretty much said that was the case for him in Melee when they were beefing up the roster.

Yes, but Sakurai doesn't totally revamp characters. This si why he stayed similar in Brawl. He's probably change more in 4.

Jill had the same moveset in the first two MvC games and then got a complete revamp in the third one. At the very least, there's a precendent.

Only problem is that MvC 3 had some bad character management. Sure, it could be done, but it's not the best idea. It's like waking up one morning being in a different house with a different family. All it will do is alienate the old players of that character. If they wanted a completely different character, they'd play one of the other 34.

BTW, it's strange seeing your avatar being that big.

 

[ssbowns]

I support Konami, Sega, Capcom, Square-Enix, Tecmo, Level-5 and maybe Namco and Ubisoft having reps, but go beyond those companies and I find it flat-out necessary. Ask yourself this; do we seriously want Master Chief, Ratchet, or Gordon to be playable in SSB4? There are next to zero serious requests for any of these characters and for good reasons. Even the ones I support should not go all-in with SSB4, but rather gradually added over time with 1-2 per installment.

Not in SSB4, probably not in SSB5 either, plenty of Nintendo power to left for it (them). Sure thinking that much ahead is pretty pointless but I did it anyway.

I guess you're asking if "I" want Master Chief and the gang in eventually. The answer is why not. Snake and Sonic are fun characters and I don't see why Ratchet and Gordon couldn't be just as fun. They're iconic, have big fanbase, they have the movelist potential and matching them against each other as well as the Nintendo army would undoubtely be fun.

Yahtzee was poking fun at it in his Marvel vs Capcom 3 review (I think it was it) Zero Punctuation review, but I honestly think a fighting game "Everyone vs everyone" could be amazing.

Though I don't really wonder why they (it) don't get much requests. Many of them are on different consoles (fanboywars and not caring), it's awfully unrealistic (even more than the usual fan ideas are) and most people I know just say now and then that it would be cool but no one really expects it. I don't expect it to happen either but I would certainly buy it (but i'd buy mostly any kind of SSB so blergh)

 

[Smooth Criminal]

It's not called "stage control" in traditional FGs, Iblis. It's called "zoning."

There was a really good video on SRK talking about that. Prolly need to dig it up.

Smooth Criminal