New Smash Bros for WiiU

[augustoflores]

photobukkit phail

 

[Lukingordex]

that reminds me of something i drew saw a few days ago.

That question is to easy...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@ Hyper
Sakurai made some good characters in Uprising. Maybe he needs to try dialogue, and get some people from the companies that make the series that are represented in smash as playable character/bosses/story mode characters to help Sakurai craft them in the story.

...You sure he wrote that dialogue or story? I'm not sure you're getting it. He is not good with story, that's all. It's not his forte. He prefers simple ones, clearly, to get you to play. And there's nothing wrong with that. In fact, that's how I like it. I don't like epic storylines in my video games and they bring about shallow and super linear gameplay instead.

That's why I'm withholding blame towards Sakurai, and am directing it at Nintendo. It's not Sakurai's fault he can't make 39 characters mesh together. It's the studio that gave him and only him the tools to make it work with a rookie fighting game staff.

I really doubt a super good story and characterization(when almost ever character has almost none to begin with) would've mattered. Hell, maybe Nintendo gave him full permission. Perhaps he cared more about good quality gameplay(which it has) then a story, which, to be honest, SSE's was perfectly fine. Besides not putting up the opening cutscene that has the background in it.

Also, I don't mind Sakurai being unsure what to do with characters with no personality. But with characters like Captain Falcon, Snake, and Falco who are filled with bad assidry, they should just be awesome all the time.

...Which they kind of were. Falco was never anything less than badass. Falcon was awesome throughout the game. So was Snake. Not really good examples. You're listing characters that had more than enough focus on them.

I just want the characters personified properly story-wise. But still, you are right. The game play comes first. If the game took place in the actual universes/several locations from the universes of Nintendo (and Sonic and Metal Gear), it would have been much better. The bosses also should have come from there, too. The original bosses, save for Tabuu and the Hands, were dumb. Last but not least, Sakurai should take cues from other 2D games as to how to make some boss fights.

But they were personified properly. They're not the real characters. They were personified properly in Smash itself. Which they are all completely different people. Yes, Dr. Mario and Mario in Smash are not related whatsoever, for example.

Sorry, I meant to say "I never said it had a story. I said it had a bad story." I don't know why I inserted the world "good" in there.

Well, remember this: If it has a bad story, it clearly doesn't have a good story. It's purely implied and, well... a fact. It's either good, bad, or in the middle. If it's mediocre, then on the flip side, it's not fairly good. Etc.

That's my problem with the story, and you agree with me. Seriously, make Falco act like Falco in the story, and we're good. He acted like Falco in the multiplayer perfectly. Heck, Sakurai even gave Falco some bread to defend!

Considering the multiplayer was pretty much as close to Smash Canon as possible, he sounded pretty accurate to me. Remember, their original Canon will never be Smash Canon. ...Not that every series has a legitimate canon anyway. There is no Mario canon, for example.

Just give them their base personalities from their games. That is all. That was done in the multiplayer very convincingly. We aren't having this debate about the multiplayer incarnations of playable smash characters, after all. I don't want every character with a great personality to just sit in the back and do nothing. If I wanted that, I'd play Halo.

He can't. As long as a single clone exists, they can't be the same person, because they couldn't exist. And clones are VERY MUCH important characters, regardless of uniqueness.

Dr. Mario and Mario could never exist in Story Mode if that were the case. That's why they have to have their own unique personalities that only works in Smash itself. In fact, Smash cannot ever be Canon to the original games, and if it were, let's be honest, the game would completely suck. Ganondorf would be unbeatable. He'd be pure evil, and would never be playable in the SSE. It just doesn't work whatsoever. Every character that is normally playable has to be playable in Story Mode. That requires personality changes for truly evil characters.

 

[Lukingordex]

Someone really read the HyperFalcon´s posts completely?

 

[Mypantisgone]

Someone really read the HyperFalcon´s posts completely?

Did it for you,
and metal

 

[Metal Overlord]

I don't really care how the story turns out at all

Just give me some funny cutscenes and badass character intros and I'll be set

I'm more concerned about the actual gameplay

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I don't really care how the story turns out at all

Just give me some funny cutscenes and badass character intros and I'll be set

I'm more concerned about the actual gameplay

So you got what you wanted, right?

Yeah, I'm happy overall with it. XD

 

[Baskerville]

Hitsun, less planking and KOF XIII balance is all I want in terms of gameplay.

 

[Johnknight1]

All I want is better balance, more technical skill, and gameplay that favors offense over defense.

Really, Brawl added some cool techniques (quick draw FTW!), but because very few characters had great, well-rounded, and sometimes unpredictable offense, there are many spots in the Brawl tiers where there is a huge gap between two characters.

Granted, Melee had these problems, but not as bad.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Planking was actually not an issue outside of one guy.

Yes, hitstun please.

I don't want balancing based upon other games. Especially games that this series is supposed to be nothing like. It's supposed to be a Fighting game with party elements. Yes, the balance is meant to be related to the items, despite that failing miserably as a concept.

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, added hit stun (but not Lucas and Ness bad) where the more damage you take, the more stun you take makes sense. However, I don't think the game should have super long super combos like Smash 64, or lame endless chain grabs you can't possibly escape from without the other playing messing up (which should never be in smash again; short chain grabs and tech chase chain grabs are okay).

Rather, combos should really happen more at higher damage (think Falcon's combos that lead to knees in Melee), and they shouldn't be more than say 4 moves (none of which should be very strong). That is, unless a character is at like a trillion damage, or we're talking 2/3 on 1's!

 

[Baskerville]

Have you even played or heard of KOF XIII?
That is easily the most balanced Fighting Game ever. Besides items easily turn the tides of a match, so the whole party game element is still there.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I stopped at "I don't like epic storylines in my gameplay because they bring about shallow and super linear gameplay instead."

Reminds me why it's difficult to take anything HyperFalcon says seriously. He makes blanket statements like this and expects to convince people of his oftentimes asinine logic.

Pro quo: Not all games with epic storylines are shallow and pedantic in their execution. Also, there are a number of factors to consider, chiefly a game's genre and any predecessors it may or may not have. Last but not least, what may be awesome to you may suck to others, and some people may actually like a cohesive narrative with character instead of a silent movie with a loosely-made one.

That said, all I care about is gameplay as well. Just give me something that isn't so damn floaty and get rid of tripping. I'll be happy with that.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It doesn't matter what game it is. Smash should be balanced based upon its own elements. If Items are not "they must be on", then the balance has to take that into account.

Likewise, are they alike games? Is KOF XIII a party-fighter(pretty much any beat-'em-up, which Smash actually is in its entire design) or a traditional fighter than is about technical skill and only HP.

 

[Baskerville]

KOF is traditional. Anyway it really doesn't matter if it's like Smash or not, in the end they are both Fighters and as such need good balance.

 

[Smooth Criminal]

KoF XIII is a traditional and very technical fighter.

I don't think it's the most balanced, tho'. Just my opinion.

Super Street Fighter 4, BBCS2, and GGAC+ are all good examples of great balance, too. If I had to pick out of those games, I'd say GG gets my nod for being the most balanced fighter.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

No, it matters a lot. It's balancing does not ever work for Smash because it's a completely different type of game.

What works for it does not work for Smash.

Yes, Smash needs balancing. No, one example of a game that does not work whatsoever like it and none of its balancing "ideas" would work.

Johnknight1 had some nice ideas. That work for how... Smash works.

This is why we ignore traditional ideas. They aren't fit for Smash. HP is barely fit for Smash.

It's great that game is balanced, honestly. Other traditional games should take notes from it. Smash never should, however.

 

[Baskerville]

Forgot about Guilty Gear (mainly because I haven't played it)
If you're talking about Super SF4 and not AE then I definitely agree.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I was seven pounds exactly. I am a lucky baby.

Then again, I had one of those breathing issues as a baby and would constantly stop breathing, alerting the machine I was hooked up to, and had to be shaken throughout each day to stay alive so I'd wake up. More like lucky to be alive.

And am I the only one who liked the Poke Floats stage? Hell, I wish all of the Melee and 64 stages made it in with the Brawl stages. Naw, that's not asking for too much.

I was not only 7 pounds and 7 ounces, but I was also born 1 week early (seven days, of course) in July (7th month of the year)

And I liked every Melee/64 stage except Icicle Mountain and Flat Zone

 

[Smooth Criminal]

I am talking about regular SSF4, yeah.

Moreover, Hyper, I think Falchion is talking about the sort of attention to balancing that other competitive fighting games get. Not taking their ideas or anything like that.

Smooth Criminal

 

[Big-Cat]

And that's my territory anyway. And I see Hyper with more dribble.

For story mode, it's not that freaking hard. Make it where you play as a character and you only get their part of the story with obvious overlapping with other story lines.

And I don't care about "Smash Canon". The whole idea is stupid. Can I just get something where an omnicidal dimension traveler hunts down characters and turns them into trophies for his collection?

And lol Smash can be balanced. Hell even single player games get balanced.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I liked Icicle Mountain more than Rumble Falls, notably. Atleast you could fight on IM.

Rumble Falls? Pfft.

 

[yani]

I HATE Rumble Falls.

 

[Arcadenik]

And that's my territory anyway. And I see Hyper with more dribble.

For story mode, it's not that freaking hard. Make it where you play as a character and you only get their part of the story with obvious overlapping with other story lines.

And I don't care about "Smash Canon". The whole idea is stupid. Can I just get something where an omnicidal dimension traveler hunts down characters and turns them into trophies for his collection?

And lol Smash can be balanced. Hell even single player games get balanced.

I have suggested over and over that Duck Hunt Dog could be that character who hunts down characters and turns them into trophies in the story mode.

 

[Shorts]

Super Mario Trophies:

Playable
1. Mario
2. Luigi
3. Peach
4. Bowser

Non-Playable
1. Toad
2. Daisy
3. Waluigi
4.Koopa's & Goombas
5. Bowser Junior
6. Rosaline & Luma
7. Wart
8. Cackletta & Fawful
9. Pauline
10. Queen Bee
11. Shadow Mario
12. Geno
13. Mallow
14. PM Buddies (1 & 2)
15. Doctor Mario
17. Paper Mario
18. Mr. L
19. Koopalings
20. Petey Piranha
21. King boo & Boos
22. Toads (Toadette, Toadsworth, Red, Blue, Yellow, Green, Purple, Classic, and Evil)
23. Power Ups
24. Plum
25. Count Blek
26. Dimento

(I do 26 for big franchises, 10 for little)

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Ghirahim would make a great alternate appearance for a sandbag!

What did you say huoomen?

 

[Linkshot]

"Twisted?"

I fail to see how "twisted" a player-conceived tournament style is when the option to make it that way is built into the game (item switch, stage switch, tournament mode, et cetera).

Smooth Criminal

I call it twisted because it clearly makes the game extremely imbalanced.

 

[Mypantisgone]

No newcomer?

 

[Big-Cat]

I have suggested over and over that Duck Hunt Dog could be that character who hunts down characters and turns them into trophies in the story mode.

That's a dumb enough plot twist to work. Reminds me of how Capcom made Pacman into something that just eats everything.

@Linkshot
And I suppose random items fixes all that by making it irrelevant.

 

[Linkshot]

At least with default settings, the cast has equal strengths and weaknesses. That's what matters most to me in a game that's supposed to be about picking your favourite and winning.

 

[Oasis_S]

What did you say huoomen?

Oh my goodness, why does that gif make me laugh so much. It fills my heart with hyenas.

 

[Big-Cat]

At least with default settings, the cast has equal strengths and weaknesses. That's what matters most to me in a game that's supposed to be about picking your favourite and winning.

Please explain how items put everyone on equal footing.

 

[Arcadenik]

That's a dumb enough plot twist to work. Reminds me of how Capcom made Pacman into something that just eats everything.

Ummm... thanks for the compliment?

 

[Big-Cat]

Ummm... thanks for the compliment?

It's a compliment. It's taking the basic premise of Duck Hunt and making it an interdimensional version of The Greatest Game.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Oh my goodness, why does that gif make me laugh so much. It fills my heart with hyenas.

Shhhh. Don't question it. Just go with it.

 

[Shorts]

Shhhh. Don't question it. Just go with it.

Straight guys.

It's what you always have to say to them when they're drunk.

Works... 50% of the time.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Valuable knowledge, thank you Shortie.

 

[Shorts]

Valuable knowledge, thank you Shortie.

Welcome!

*flies away*

Breaking news!!!!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

At least with default settings, the cast has equal strengths and weaknesses. That's what matters most to me in a game that's supposed to be about picking your favourite and winning.

They have that online. With lag.

You do realize he only said they are balanced online with items, right? And how are all stages even tourney viable? Mario Bros. is absolutely unusable in tourneys. Like, no, just no.

Sakurai has never said ONCE Brawl is balanced with all items and stages. Ever.

Thus, no, it is not balanced with items. We play tourneys always offline. We cannot balance just by adding items. We have to slowly test them and figure out what MIGHT help balance it. Also, no, items don't balance MK. Remember, he's fast enough to get them, thus, at best, the Tier list would be slightly less problemsome. But would never be balanced. Ever.

Brawl cannot be balanced outside of hacking. Nothing works.

 

[Oasis_S]

Basically, what competitive players think is balanced and what Sakurai thinks is balanced are two totally different things.

Thing is, competitive players are just wrong.