New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Impa doesn't have her own playable games, and is only widely important in one game. The rest are very small roles. I wouldn't even call her more than a plot device in OOT.

Likewise, Tingle actually is completely required to beat Wind Waker, has been in a lot of games(small roles, but he's more than a freakin' mention in a manual), was very key to even beating the game in just about every appearance maybe expect Minish Cap. Impa... not counting SS as I haven't played it yet, the only games that she is needed to general complete the basic story is one of the Oracle games, OOT(and I'm guessing SS). That's not much that makes her general special. Likewise, Tingle is quite a bit more notable than Impa these days.

As for popularity, I'd say Tingle beats her still. And I mean overall. The ninja thing really doesn't give Impa anything special, as Sheik showed those skills first in OOT. Fat Impa, outside of SS, always seemed to be the bigger one(and I don't mean cheat or body size), and was there very early on.

I don't think Impa has no chance, but only as her own character. I doubt see Ghirahim being chosen especially. If a new character, I honestly see Tingle with Vaati in second for really neat ideas myself.

 

[Aurane]

It's kind of weird to think that Zelda probably cuddles with that Tingle doll at night.

It's like, really? THAT over a bear or something?

I agree. She should of taken a Teddiursa or Cubchoo

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sheik HERSELF is a plot device in OOT. Impa still has the one noticeable appearance going for her. And, the fact she will most likely return in the next Zelda games, and Sheik won't.

 

[ChronoBound]

I personally don't think another retro revival character is needed despite one being likely. Keep in mind Pit was very popularly requested pre-Brawl. The next character in line after him was Little Mac, but he got a new game release after Brawl, so he is no longer retro. Takamaru is from a title that the West never received, while Mach Rider is from a sub-par NES game that has very few fans.

 

[Oasis_S]

Sub-par only because you suck at it. BD

 

[Diddy Kong]

Sheik also shows no ninja skills in OOT, only harp playing and talking, and more harp playing. If about the Deku Nut, Impa showed of that technique in the Young Link time of OOT, and its clear Sheik ripped it of from her.

 

[Big-Cat]

OK, Diddy. Instead of making these arguments (not sure if trolling), why not just make a giant essay and put it in your sig. Saves everyone a lot of trouble.

 

[Deleted member]

Please, it took Impa HOW many years to come back in the flesh?
And considering that the game she came back in is supposed to be in the BEGINNING of the damn series?
What makes it so "likely" she'll come back at this point? In my eyes, Skyward Sword is Impa's last hurrah for a while.
Or, alternatively, she'll come back, but she'll be an old woman or husky woman again.

You know who is more likely to show himself than her? Tingle. And I'm not talking cameos.

 

[Tommy_G]

Impa was in the Oracle games (Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons) as well as Zelda 1 and Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link.

Tingle is just a troll.

 

[ChronoBound]

Sub-par only because you suck at it. BD

Mach Rider's mediocrity is the critical consensus on it though. Kid Icarus is very difficult too, but it is definitely a classic from that era.

Thinking back again though, Ray of Custom Robo seems to get barely any requests any more. I think in terms of new possible series he was in the same league as Golden Sun was in being place on roster wishlists during pre-Brawl. Now even Saki is considered more likely than him and more popular too.

Keep in mind too, that pre-Brawl was basically two eras. There was pre-Brawl prior to Brawl's announcement, and pre-Brawl after Brawl's announcement. There were some definite changes in fan opinion that morphed very quickly after Brawl's announcement.

I feel this will be the same for Smash 4.

 

[Deleted member]

Impa was in the Oracle games (Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons) as well as Zelda 1 and Zelda 2: The Adventure of Link.

Tingle is just a troll.

She was a husky woman in the Oracles, and her Zelda 1 and Zelda 2 "appearances" were manual only. And she was an old woman in those manuals.

Please. Try harder.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Husky she was only in the Oracle games. Before that, yeah she was mostly old.

That she's in the beginning makes her all the more important actually, especially considering her role.

Tingle was actually quite hated in Wind Waker for that role. With reasons, what a ****ing troll he was indeed...

Also, Impa could easily return as the body guard of Zelda again, either named after the infamous SS Impa. She could also... Just return as herself. I'm gonna explain that one later.

Besides, small bench sit out for Impa > Sheik's permanent leave from it.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Sheik HERSELF is a plot device in OOT. Impa still has the one noticeable appearance going for her. And, the fact she will most likely return in the next Zelda games, and Sheik won't.

If they're both Plot Devices, then clearly Impa is not any more special. Likewise, Sheik indeed does a lot more than Impa does in OOT, which is what made her more notable. You keep talking about story roles when a video game... had gameplay roles. Impa only taught you one song and gave you one item.

Likewise, nobody cares if Impa'll show up in the next Zelda game or not. Nor does Sakurai. We're talking about her showing up in Smash. Impa may have more on Sheik in the Zelda series. But the Smash series? Not even close. I have no problem with both being playable. I do have a problem with replacing a veteran for some newbie. Especially when the veteran showed up more than once. It's too late to replace her.

I'd still rather have Tingle, as he has more credibility to being unique than Impa can. Unless it's Fat Impa, who's not a Ninja, and has less chance for cloneage.

 

[Diddy Kong]

In OOT yeah, Sheik is SLIGHTLY more important PERHAPS. SS Impa >>>>> Sheik though

 

[Aurane]

INOTHERBETTERNEWS

I made a new signature. I'm getting better at this

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And the only games you compare the two is OOT. Until Sheik appears in another Zelda game(of which she may have been planned for TP) together, they're uncomparable. More appearances? Not important. Relevancy is not important either. Uniqueness and Popularity are key. Sheik is already more unique in Smash alone due to the transformations.

Sheik beats Impa in OOT, the only game that even mattered by the time of Melee. If they both appear in a game together again, and Impa beats them out, then, and only then, could I see Sakurai even giving a chance to replace Sheik for a "better" counterpart. But since that has yet to happen, Sheik beats Impa in the only three games that matter for Sheik. OOT, Melee, Brawl.

Nice job, Asage.

 

[Oasis_S]

Mach Rider's mediocrity is the critical consensus on it though. Kid Icarus is very difficult too, but it is definitely a classic from that era.

Yeah, well... It was still pretty good. *kicks dust* But falling into obscurity for nearly 30 years is a pretty big HINT I suppose.

Thinking back again though, Ray of Custom Robo seems to get barely any requests any more. I think in terms of new possible series he was in the same league as Golden Sun was in being place on roster wishlists during pre-Brawl. Now even Saki is considered more likely than him and more popular too.

Keep in mind too, that pre-Brawl was basically two eras. There was pre-Brawl prior to Brawl's announcement, and pre-Brawl after Brawl's announcement. There were some definite changes in fan opinion that morphed very quickly after Brawl's announcement.

I feel this will be the same for Smash 4.

It's really too bad that Ray has fallen behind so much these days. He would be an incredible addition to the roster. From stage, music, moveset... his very DESIGN even. I can even remember saying pre-Brawl (actually I think this was after the leak) that the Smash roster would never feel complete until Ray (among others) are included.

Saki's NEWFOUND popularity is rather baffling. I guess he really is just THAT COOL. I mean, if he hadn't been an Assist Trophy, there's no way people would care about him this much. But he IS cool, so it's cool that we all think he's so cool now. BD

And I suppose I was of the post-announcement Brawl era... :I ...No. I remember saying, of ALL the third-party character threads I happened to have posted in, that SNAKE would never be in Smash. AND THEN that trailer comes out. Why couldn't I have said Cloud or Master Chief?! Talk about paradigm shifts. Suddenly Sonic is confirmed.

 

[Aurane]

@HyperFalcon Thank you :D

Anyways, I'm leavin'. All this Impa'in around is making my body hurt. See ya'll later.

 

[Deleted member]

I'm ****ing sick of this too. Seems Diddy Kong is never going to quit until we ALL see it his way, which so far, has failed miserably. I'm out for a while.
Message me when the Impa ****storm subsides.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I'm ****ing sick of this too. Seems Diddy Kong is never going to quit until we ALL see it his way, which so far, has failed miserably. I'm out for a while.
Message me when the Impa ****storm subsides.

I think we're finally getting to the point of what it matters. I don't see anything Impa has beyond more appearances. That's... it.

 

[Luco]

I'm sorry, but I have to say that this is a HUGE display of ignorance.
While Meowth may have more impact in the long run AT THIS TIME, let's play into how Jigglypuff got into Smash in the first place.

Jigglypuff was the 2nd most popular Pokemon in Japan during the time that Smash 64 was being made. Pika being the first.
If I remember correctly, Meowth was the 4th, behind Squirtle.
Jigglypuff was more popular than Meowth.

Now, in this day and age, you can't even consider EITHER for popularity. On Japan's (pre-Unova) Top 10 Pokemon, Meowth (and Jigglypuff) aren't even ON there. In fact, it's all Legendaries except Pikachu (who's 4th), and Eevee.
You know who IS on the list? Mewtwo.

All in all, Meowth only has the anime to back himself up. Not good.
Don't use Lucario as an example; he had a LOT more going for him than just his movie.

PT isn't even wanted? So I guess the fact that he was in the Top 20 of Japan's pre-Melee poll, with only two other Pokemon characters ahead of him (Mewtwo and Mew) means he wasn't wanted?

Furthermore, cutting Jigglypuff for the sake of "relevance" is not unlike the issues we got with S---- and I---, and is messing with the Original 12. You don't mess with the Original 12.

There was more I was going to say, but I had forgotten.

EDIT: This is why I find the prospect of Meowth to be laughable. He's hyped only because of the fact he shows up in the anime, and people try to argue that he's super popular, when polls prove that there are plenty more popular than him.
While it's fine to prefer having Jiggz and PT gone, making obnoxious claims like "No one will care if they're gone" is going up **** Creek without a paddle.

I'd still have to argue to not count your chickens before they hatch (we still don't know who/what nintendo is considering for candidates). At the same time, I don't think jiggs is getting cut.... At all (from falcon's post). She and Ness were on the chopping board for a while, but they stayed. They need no more time out in the rough IMO. But thats just me, I suppose

Sorry guys meant to post this yesterday, but yeah. Back to school, and I have school in a couple hours. Cya later guys, bbl. ^^

 

[---]

Anyways, I'm leavin'. All this Impa'in around is making my body hurt.

So Impa really can cause cancer?


@Waluigi Haters: It could be worse.

 

[Aurane]

So Impa really can cause cancer?


@Waluigi Haters:

YES.

12impas?bulls***

 

[Big-Cat]

It's really too bad that Ray has fallen behind so much these days. He would be an incredible addition to the roster. From stage, music, moveset... his very DESIGN even. I can even remember saying pre-Brawl (actually I think this was after the leak) that the Smash roster would never feel complete until Ray (among others) are included.

Saki's NEWFOUND popularity is rather baffling. I guess he really is just THAT COOL. I mean, if he hadn't been an Assist Trophy, there's no way people would care about him this much. But he IS cool, so it's cool that we all think he's so cool now. BD

Saki had a support thread before Brawl came out, and his popularity had boosted once Nintendo brought Sin and Punishment over here.

On Ray, if he plays ANYTHING like Rocket Raccoon, I'll welcome him with open arms. Based off of his Assist Trophy, he could be an aggressive zoner with mixups.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

So Impa really can cause cancer?

Smoke Bombs.

@Waluigi Haters: It could be worse.

Okay, that was funny. Wawaluigi, heh.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

GRAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

You know what Diddy, I've had it too. Seriously, do a freaking community, essay, etc!!!!!!!! If Impa is that important.

But really, the way you keep bringing her up has broken our community well enough which sickens me!

 

[stan423321]

Hello everyone.

I don't think talking about new characters so early is going to move on soon. So, how about some tiny moveset tweak discussions? By tiny, I don't mean pairing up Diddy with anyone, making Ganondorf Vaderdorf or anything like this. I mean things like calling for FLUDD replacement or buffing. Yes, I don't like FLUDD, as it is not powerful enough to be useful. But if there was a single move I could change, I would change the Reversed Falcon Punch.

It is not really much better than turning around, then punching in its current incarnation. So how about this: if Falcon manages to charge his punch, player may decide to turn around at this point. Yes, they tilt the stick/d-pad/whatever then, and not earlier. This causes major delay, around half the time of charging itself, but Falcon gets launch resistance for attacks dealing less than 18%, the attack is a bit mightier than it currently is, and it additionaly gets a "stun hit" for enemies who decided to roll under Falcon and again up to one time (by this awkard statement, I mean the distance), allowing the Falcon to continue attacking them (or do something else).

Thoughts on those or other moves would be nice to see here.

 

[Oasis_S]

Saki had a support thread before Brawl came out, and his popularity had boosted once Nintendo brought Sin and Punishment over here.

Yeah, but FlipTroopa made support threads for every obscure character he could think of. ...There was another guy too that liked obscure characters. Parrothead, was it?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Parrothead!! I'm familiar with that fella. He attends NinDB so often.

I remember pre-Brawl times. I was sometimes here under name SutafiKaabii, but I talked about stupid and immature stuff. Yeah, I had that period.

I was supporting Starfy back then too...

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Wait, no Falcon Punch? I agree with changing some moves around.

Mario's Down B was changed to the latest reference, being Sunshine. I could see his Mario Tornado(or Galaxy Tornado) being changed to again.

As for Luigi, I could see him implementing his Vacuum.

 

[Opossum]

So, to divert attention from Impa, yesterday I used Oasis' system of roster making to create my own. Anyone have thoughts on it?

I'd think it's a fairly reasonable roster.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Pretty good except for a lack of a 3rd Gen. And technically 2nd. 6 1st Gens is really overdoing it. (or 7 if you consider Trainer himself one of the characters)

Also, add in another Fire Emblem character. And Krystal. Too many slots for Mario and Pokemon, to the point of hurting three series severely.

 

[yani]

Add Dixie and I have no complaints

 

[Opossum]

Pretty good except for a lack of a 3rd Gen. And technically 2nd. 6 1st Gens is really overdoing it. (or 7 if you consider Trainer himself one of the characters)

Also, add in another Fire Emblem character. And Krystal. Too many slots for Mario and Pokemon, to the point of hurting three series severely.

At the moment, I really don't think a second or third generation rep is necessary. Not all of the gens need to be playable. Look at Brawl, for example.

Also, how is six first gens over doing it? There were 5 in Brawl, Sakurai said he liked all of Brawl's characters, and Mewtwo is heavily wanted to return. I'd say that's a done deal.

With Krystal, I just don't think StarFox needs a fourth rep. It can make due.


With Fire Emblem, in all honesty, it is because my guess as to who they'd add is cloaked in ambiguity. I just don't know! xD





For Dixie, yani, I dunno. I just wanted to play it safe and just put King K Rool.

 

[knuckles213]

So, to divert attention from Impa, yesterday I used Oasis' system of roster making to create my own. Anyone have thoughts on it?

I'd think it's a fairly reasonable roster.

I dont know about this list, it feels like I'm getting shafted on character selection. whats that program you uses to make this

 

[Aurane]

At the moment, I really don't think a second or third generation rep is necessary. Not all of the gens need to be playable. Look at Brawl, for example.

Also, how is six first gens over doing it? There were 5 in Brawl, Sakurai said he liked all of Brawl's characters, and Mewtwo is heavily wanted to return. I'd say that's a done deal.

Well, yeah true. But the 3rd generation deserves more respect, AKA Deoxys as a playable character. But, I guess having almost the entire pokeball system on 3rd gens is ok too >_>

I agree, most defeinatly. Which is why I wonder why we should bring back PT Kanto. God, get some Typhlosions in here, man!

Also, for god's sake, everyone! A Pokemon roster of perfection... RIGHT HERE:
Pikachu
Jigglypuff
Mewtwo
Deoxys
Lucario
Victini
6 slots, man... 6 slots, woman... You get the point.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

At the moment, I really don't think a second or third generation rep is necessary. Not all of the gens need to be playable. Look at Brawl, for example.

And Plusle & Minun were planned. So Sakurai indeed thinks they should've been included. However, time issues happened, and the latest Gen was generally going to get more sales than the outdated one. It was a smart business decision.

Also, how is six first gens over doing it? There were 5 in Brawl, Sakurai said he liked all of Brawl's characters, and Mewtwo is heavily wanted to return. I'd say that's a done deal.

There were six. PT himself is counted. And it's way too much. 1st Gen doesn't really deserve THAT much love. It's fine to give it love, but I'd rather have more than one newer character as is. Atleast add in Meowth, for cripes' sake. Pokemon has gotten two new characters ever since, and that should be kept.

With Krystal, I just don't think StarFox needs a fourth rep. It can make due.

I don't think Mario needs two new reps either. Especially with its spin-offs, it could have one character(some kind of villain/bad guy), and it would be perfect. Albeit, Bowser Jr. wouldn't be much unique outside of that Paintbrush, as that's what separates him gameplay-wise from Bowser.

With Fire Emblem, in all honesty, it is because my guess as to who they'd add is cloaked in ambiguity. I just don't know! xD

Then bring Roy back. Leaving it at 2 is pointless. There's more than enough space to have him back.

For Dixie, yani, I dunno. I just wanted to play it safe and just put King K Rool.

Put both. I agree King K. Rool goes first, but bump the thing to 60, and add in the last characters. Honestly, if I was severely picky, I'd want Tingle in well before Ghirahim, but it's clear who is more popular.

Asage just gave the best possible roster.(5th gen choice is debatable, but it covers all grounds)

 

[Opossum]

I dont know about this list, it feels like I'm getting shafted on character selection. whats that program you uses to make this

I used Oasis_s' roster maker. It's under user blogs. You should check it out. By the way, can you elaborate more on the first thing?


@Asage. I wouldn't say "perfect." Charizard is among the most popular Pokemon, if not THE most popular. It would upset many to see his removal, myself included.



@Hyper:

And Plusle & Minun were planned.

We still don't know for sure. It could indeed be the random box.

There were six. PT himself is counted. And it's way too much. 1st Gen doesn't really deserve THAT much love. It's fine to give it love, but I'd rather have more than one newer character as is. Atleast add in Meowth, for cripes' sake. Pokemon has gotten two new characters ever since, and that should be kept.

I wasn't including the trainer separately, just the actual Pokemon. How would it be bad? It keeps all the Brawl-ies and adds back a fan favorite. Adding Meowth would be pushing it by your definition of favoring the first gen, wouldn't it?

I don't think Mario needs two new reps either. Especially with its spin-offs, it could have one character(some kind of villain/bad guy), and it would be perfect. Albeit, Bowser Jr. wouldn't be much unique outside of that Paintbrush, as that's what separates him gameplay-wise from Bowser.

I mainly gave Mario two reps to be even with Pokemon. It IS Nintendo's flagship franchise, and should be treated as such. I mean, I'm not just adding for the sake of adding either. Both Bowser Jr. and Toad have been seen as worthy. It's not like, say, Waluigi's situation.

For Bowser Jr., I envision him with a Special set consisting of:

B: A homing Fire Ball.
B>: A Shell Toss from NSMB
B^ : Mini Koopa Klown Kar from NSMBW ()
BV : A Paint Glob trap-type move.

A-moves mainly consisting of Brush strokes and "dirty" fighting with low kicks and such.

Using this, he'd be quite different than Bowser.

Then bring Roy back. Leaving it at 2 is pointless. There's more than enough space to have him back.

Quote:
For Dixie, yani, I dunno. I just wanted to play it safe and just put King K Rool.
Put both. I agree King K. Rool goes first, but bump the thing to 60, and add in the last characters. Honestly, if I was severely picky, I'd want Tingle in well before Ghirahim, but it's clear who is more popular.

To wrap this section up, I may add Roy, but I'm still unsure. My main thing from this section is that I doubt the roster will go above 50 slots.


Just my thoughts.

 

[knuckles213]

I used Oasis_s' roster maker. It's under user blogs. You should check it out. By the way, can you elaborate more on the first thing?


@Asage. I wouldn't say "perfect." Charizard is among the most popular Pokemon, if not THE most popular. It would upset many to see his removal, myself included.

have a link to that user blog?

What I mean by "Shafted" (even though I'm way Late on post in this thread) is that I feel like the selection needs more characters (I'd say cap it at somewhere around 65) and varity in selection. from your list, it seems much wasn't added nor much of a different than whats in brawl with like few different charaters

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

@Hyper:

We still don't know for sure. It could indeed be the random box.

Except the actual names only are from the japanese names. It's more likely to be them than the Random Box. Likewise, he clearly cares about the 3rd Gen. 70% of the time was put into the SSE, right? The only Pokemon Boss(and non-playable) was strictly 3rd Gen based. Also, PT's main design is from the 3rd Gen games. He does care about them. As I said, time made it harder to implement them. If he had more roster space, I'm sure the newer characters would go right before the returners. So basically Dixie, Plusle & Minun, Toon Zelda, and Toon Sheik may have been in first. Note how the new characters had more priority over the old ones.

I wasn't including the trainer separately, just the actual Pokemon. How would it be bad? It keeps all the Brawl-ies and adds back a fan favorite. Adding Meowth would be pushing it by your definition of favoring the first gen, wouldn't it?

We do not need need to keep all the Brawlies, just like keeping all the Melee guys wasn't clearly necessary. I'd like to remind you that Pichu has zero chance of returning. And don't confuse those two points. They are unrelated. I want atleast two new Pokemon, but I would prefer them to be 3rd and 5th gen. That's the order I want.

I mainly gave Mario two reps to be even with Pokemon. It IS Nintendo's flagship franchise, and should be treated as such. I mean, I'm not just adding for the sake of adding either. Both Bowser Jr. and Toad have been seen as worthy. It's not like, say, Waluigi's situation.

Wario and Yoshi, which is a spin-off of the Mario franchise, overall evens it out anyway. So no, you don't need two main-series new reps. One main series, and one of the spin-offs(rpg's) would do a lot more, imo. I'm not against both Toad and Bowser Jr., but I am against the reasoning of "evening out" compared to Pokemon.

For Bowser Jr., I envision him with a Special set consisting of:

B: A homing Fire Ball.
B>: A Shell Toss from NSMB
B^ : Mini Koopa Klown Kar from NSMBW ()
BV : A Paint Glob trap-type move.

A-moves mainly consisting of Brush strokes and "dirty" fighting with low kicks and such.

Using this, he'd be quite different than Bowser.

He needs to switch to Shadow Mario to truly separate himself. The only special that Bowser could not do on his own is the last one. There needs to be more emphasis on his differences, and not Bowser-like moves.

To wrap this section up, I may add Roy, but I'm still unsure. My main thing from this section is that I doubt the roster will go above 50 slots.


Just my thoughts.

It's already over 50. Like I said, 60 is a very good number. It puts those last stragglers in, and gives everyone some love.