New Smash Bros for WiiU

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Johnknight: YES. We need the epic openings back, please.

 

[ChronoBound]

Sakurai really put too much into the SSE. On paper the idea was amazing, but how it was executed it proved to be Brawl's weakest point.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Johnknight: YES. We need the epic openings back, please.

Yeah, we do! I LOVE Melee's and 64's, but Brawl's is like, "SKIP IT QUICK!"

 

[Pieman0920]

Brawl's intro wasn't bad. In fact, it was pretty much the same as Melee's. Went through each of the characters in a cutscene format, and inter-spliced with some actual gameplay footage. Key difference of course is that all of Brawl's was taken from SSE, while Melee's was just made for the intro. I suppose you could say that it was lazy for Brawl to reuse footage, but at the same time you could say Melee was misleading because the stuff shown in that intro doesn't really happen in the game.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Chrono: Just think if SSE never existed... Brawl would've been 70% better than it is now.

Geez Pieman, like anyone was caring were all the stuff in Melee-intro gonna happen in the game, the characters were all represented in most best ways imaginable, and all that was executed epically. You CAN'T compare THAT to Brawl's.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Brawl's intro wasn't bad. In fact, it was pretty much the same as Melee's. Went through each of the characters in a cutscene format, and inter-spliced with some actual gameplay footage. Key difference of course is that all of Brawl's was taken from SSE, while Melee's was just made for the intro. I suppose you could say that it was lazy for Brawl to reuse footage, but at the same time you could say Melee was misleading because the stuff shown in that intro doesn't really happen in the game.

Which made you want to watch it again because that's the only place you COULD see it.

 

[Pichu Fan]

Brawls opening was lazy. it was just clips of game play and sub space emissary cutscenes. Also dark pit originated from brawl, but in uprising he has red eyes, so one small edit I hope happens to pits dark pit pallet swap is that it has red eyes.

 

[Johnknight1]

Brawl's opening was ALL ABOUT THE Subspace Emissary and the characters in it.
Melee's opening was ALL ABOUT THE characters, their universe, their struggles, their history, and how all of them are racing to go to the showdown of Nintendo's Greatest All-Stars!

I literally watch the Melee opening every time. It gives me goosebumps every time. First, the epic introduction with the Mario trophy coming alive! Then Mario, staring down Link in an epic Coliseum (that looks like the famous Roman Coliseum), and then Mario and Link are joined by Kirby and Pikachu, and the four attack each other!

Hype up the epic Mario franchise conflict (Mario and now PEACH AND BOWSER! YES!), which is classic "good vs. evil" stuff. Hype up Donkey Kong exploring the Jungle! (imagine this in the next game with Diddy, Dixie, and K. Rool!) Showcase Samus being Samus, and fighting Ridley in a struggle for survival and justice! Hype up some awesome Zelda-ish music, some epic images of Ocarina of time, the Triforce conflict, show Zelda, Sheik, and then GANONDORF, and then BANG! CONFLICT! Show Yoshi being cute and well... Yoshi... IN A GIANT HERD OF YOSHI! Flash Popo climbing a mountain, only to be helped by Nana upon slipping! (not tripping) Showcase various characters fighting alongside each other and seemingly preparing for the ultimate battle! Then, a scene of Sheik at Lake Hylia, and Zelda looking up at the stars for answers! And in the Stars, Kirby is flying on his Warp Star, exploring Dream Land like a pimp! And past Kirby, Star Fox lead by Fox McCloud is leading anShow Fox in an intense battle with Team Star Wolf and other foes-and we get the perfect freeze frame of Fox vs. Wolf! We then witness Ness warp himself back to Onett to surprise some hoodlums. Then we see dozens of Pokémon (including Pikachu, Jigglypuff, and Pichu), and how vastly different each of them are. Flash to an extremely fast F-Zero race at Mute City, featuring Captain Falcon owning rival racer Samurai Goroh to take the lead. All the starting playable characters then get sucked into a warp hole. Bowser then begins transforming, much to the fear of Mario, Peach, and Yoshi! Link, Zelda, and Sheik play their instruments alongside one another! Donkey Kong getting hit by a mysterious shadow ball!! We then witness an epic race to the battle then amongst characters! Ice Climbers alongside Ness! The Blue Falcon and Great Fox racing alongside one another! And a bomb drops! And then BOOM!!! Trophies of the characters explode, and the titles comes! "SUPER SMASSSHHH BROOOOTTTHHHEEERRRSSSS MELLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!"

Then, flash all these characters racing to get to the ultimate fight of Nintendo Greatest All-Stars!!!

Pretty much, the Melee intro is the very definition of hype!!!

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

JK: Damn. All I'm using is my 3DS and I can already envision that intro and what feelings it brings to me: hype, squeeling, fainting, shaking... Maan.

 

[Pieman0920]

I never took away form the intro that they were racing. I mean, the Zelda series, Star Fox series and Mario series characters certainly aren't racing. I mean there's a lot of traveling and running around, but that happens a lot in the Brawl intro too. :/

Really though, they're just sort of the same.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Melee's speed, Brawl's airdodge and mechanics, no tripping, and add a little something new. That's what would make me happy. OH, and SLIGHTLY less floaty, but not too much. Just a little bit.

Melee's speed is too fast for my tastes. Brawl's speed seems more manageable, overall.

 

[Deleted member]

I considers the "all-stars" left to be K. Rool, Ridley, and Mewtwo.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Melee's opening was ALL ABOUT THE characters, their universe, their struggles, their history, and how all of them are racing to go to the showdown of Nintendo's Greatest All-Stars!

^ This. This just is how every SSB-opening should be like.
Not showing the weakest aspect of the game and blandly to go with it, like Brawl did. (-ù^ú-)

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Melee's speed is too fast for my tastes. Brawl's speed seems more manageable, overall.

Melee IS, admiittedly, a little too fast. But IMO, Brawl is a little too slow. So somewhere in the middle.

UNRELATED: So if there's one aesthetic change I want, well... Remember in Melee how, when you reached 5 stock, you could see a character icon, one for each stock? Like Melee's stock appearance? I hope they do that again. Those bland little dots in Brawl were so lame.

 

[Pichu Fan]

I considers the "all-stars" left to be K. Rool, Ridley, and Mewtwo.

I say the only all stars left are

Mii
Toad
Ridley
Mewtwo
Takamaru
Little Mac
King K Rool
Dixie Kong
Tingle

Did I miss anyone? Oh yeah, impa, but we already have sheik:grimahshine:

 

[Pieman0920]

UNRELATED: So if there's one aesthetic change I want, well... Remember in Melee how, when you reached 5 stock, you could see a character icon, one for each stock? Like Melee's stock appearance? I hope they do that again. Those bland little dots in Brawl were so lame.

One wonders why they did that, seeing as the face icons were present in other parts of the game.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Pichu: Add Lip and Doc for Puzzle All-Star Duo. They're ones I think are missing as All-Stars.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Your opinion about Sheik being easily replaceable is held by you alone, simply because she stands in the way of Impa and Smash. You continually allow your fanboyism to blind you to the reality of the situation. Most people like Sheik and don't think there us any reason to axe her. She has made herself relevant through Smash. Zelda's whole theme is that she has the ability to transform. You really think Sakurai would alienate all the fans of Sheik, just to appease a few Impa fanboys? It doesn't work like that. Sorry.

No, it's actually cause Sheik is not relevant anymore in the Zelda series since a very long time. Major apperances is what keeps characters like this interessting (don't bring up the retros for this one), and Sheik had none in the first place. She even didn't do much in OoT. It's not fanboyism, as I was for Sheik's exclusion already pre-Brawl.

Sheik's popularity is debatable actually. I'd say most of it came from her Melee high tier potential, and that she's easy to play with and be good with. And she hasn't made herself relevant through Smash, otherwise she'd be a re-occuring character in Zelda. Her "popularity" didn't got her to be included in any other Zelda as of yet. Instead, Zelda herself has been getting more, and better roles ever since. Most noticable in Skyward Sword.

Besides, Zelda / Impa allows them the freedom to axe the transforming character idea they had with Zelda / Sheik, as Impa is her own character, but could as easily function as a Zelda "transformation". For the record, Sheik is canoncally not even a "transformation" at all. More of a disguise. Hence why Impa would work just as well for this.

And I don't get the point of "displeasing Sheik fans" if Sakurai has cut characters before. All characters have their fanbases. And I don't think Sheik's fanbase triumphs over Roy's or you know, Mewtwo's.

I dunno about all this here Shiek/Impa business, but that moveset is likely going to return, barring some type of major gameplay reboot. That being said, I wouldn't put it past them in regards to making a Skyward Sword appearance for Shiek. Why? Because they were apparently going to make a Toon Shiek. Now we have no idea how a Toon Shiek would have looked like, when it was cut from the game, or why it was cut from the game, but if you base your ideas on the concepts of characters solely off of Hyrule Historia (Which I don't think is the best of ideas, since they could easily withhold content that could be used later) then there were no plans for a version of Shiek back in Wind Waker. Now we have no idea if Toon Shiek was scrapped at her design phase, or even if it was a place holder name for a planned Tetra, but it still raises the possibility that they can just make something up.

"Toon Sheik" would've been Tetra most likely. I have no doubts about that. They didn't properly named all character files anyway (pra_mai?), and "Toon Sheik" could just be a code name for Tetra, or they indeed wanted a "Toon Sheik" but later discovered Tetra's excistance. Tetra is a trophy in Brawl though, and the Pirate Ship is in as a stage. I have serious doubts that a non excistant "Toon Sheik" would've made it over Tetra.

Toon Zelda / Tetra might've even be a placeholder to replace the actual Zelda / Sheik character idea. Which, you know, would've made sence. They probably dismissed the idea cause Toon Zelda would've most likely be a Zelda clone of coarse. And Toon Link himself was finished rather late.

Hyrule Historica didn't withhold much information though, there's loads of unused concept art in there, a whole lot. Even the "famous" Sheik Twilight Princess design is there. I don't think they'd withhold a Skyward Sword Sheik if it was there. <_<; It reveals quite a lot, and was intended to do so. Why make an open book about something like that (literally) while withholding ideas?

Summarized: Zelda / Sheik was a character idea based of the most recent / well received Zelda game from that moment. Relevance got them in in the first place, and especially seeing how GANONDORF was based on his demo model from a game not even actually brought out (beta-beta-beta Wind Waker demo) with that sword and all, relevance IS important with Zelda characters.

Sheik's inclusion in Brawl was a dubious one. Sakurai even pointed out that they had to use an unused model from Twilight Princess on the Dojo. And besides that, Sheik probably stayed cause she and Zelda are the actual only original Zelda characters in Brawl. Link has been around forever, and Toon Link and Ganondorf are semi clones at best. Which I why I think they are going to revamp them all at best as possible, especially cause of the balance issues.

Skyward Sword is also really liked by Nintendo, as stated by Mr.Miyamoto. He said in an interview he felt Skyward Sword was a master piece, and only had the same vibe with OoT from all Zelda games. It's also stated that with Skyward Sword's established controll sheme, it'll be hard for them to go back to a regular botton pressing Zelda game. In that way Skyward Sword is just as revolutionary now as OoT was back in the day to the overall series.

We might not even get a Skyward Sword design per se, but I doubt that Impa will not be re-occuring from this point. There's a much more likely chance we'll get to see her in future installments than Sheik. I don't know this for sure of coarse, but I'll keep an eye on Zelda for this. Thusfar I still think with Skyward Sword, Impa is still more likely than Sheik. Mainly cause Sheik herself was a relevance thing at best, not much for her role in OoT. And Zelda / Sheik as a combo character was never done well in terms of balance anyway. Impa only adds up to the character I feel, regardless of my personal preferation of her over Sheik.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

One wonders why they did that, seeing as the face icons were present in other parts of the game.

Exactlt. They were in All-Star mode and the SSE. AND Tournament Mode. So why'd they take it out of regular Group Mode?

@Pichu Fan: You forgot Starfy. And Paper Mario.

@Diddy: You might want to prep your disappoint transceivers ( ), as should everyone here. There won't be a single person IN THE WORLD who will get everything they wanted in Sm4sh.

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Poppy: But you can always dream.

And I totally forgot about Starfy. He's an all-star indeec.

Just him and Kirby clashing epically = HYYYYPPPEEEE!!!!

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Poppy: But you can always dream.

And I totally forgot about Starfy. He's an all-star indeec.

Just him and Kirby clashing epically = HYYYYPPPEEEE!!!!

Just imagine... Someday I will be able to kick Ridley's butt with Starfy. Hilarious image, indeed.

 

[Johnknight1]

^ This. This just is how every SSB-opening should be like.
Not showing the weakest aspect of the game and blandly to go with it, like Brawl did. (-ù^ú-)

Exactly. We buy smash for its' epic gameplay, it's great characters, great franchises, and its' amazing showcase of all of this and Nintendo's great All-Stars colliding, which is now featuring intensely awesome guests like Solid Snake and Sonic the Hedgehog!!! This should be hyped to EPIC PROPORTIONS in the opening!

There is no reason that Smash Bros. Wii U or 3DS' opening shouldn't be the most epic opening in smash bros history, or video game history. Seriously, in Brawl Mario, Peach, Bowser, Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Link, Zelda, Sheik, Samus, Zero Suit Samus, Yoshi, Kirby, Meta Knight, King Dedede, Fox, Pikachu, the Pokémon Trainer (who has a Squirtle, Ivysaur, and Charizard), Ness, Lucas, Marth, Ike, the Ice Climbers, Pit, Wario, Captain Olimar, Solid Snake, and Sonic the Hedgehog in the opening! Yet, it is the worst opening in smash bros history. How is this possible=??? Mario vs. Sonic fighting should be AUTOMATICALLY in each smash bros opening.

Literally the Brawl reveal trailer, the Nintendo Space World Trailer, the E3 2006 trailer, the "Snake Joins the Brawl," and the "Sonic Joins the Brawl" trailers all hype me up way more than the Brawl opening.

The only part that felt "epic" to me was Diddy Kong and his peanut guns! That and the epic Ness saving Lucas part, which always gets me! I also kinda like Fox fighting the Haleberd in his Arwing, but dang it, the Haleberd is like 20 seconds of the opening!

 

[Baskerville]

Melee's speed, Brawl's airdodge and mechanics, no tripping, and add a little something new. That's what would make me happy. OH, and SLIGHTLY less floaty, but not too much. Just a little bit.

I thought I was the only one who wanted this. XD

 

[Metal Overlord]

IMO, they made a bad move developing most of the game around the SSE

 

[Johnknight1]

I never took away form the intro that they were racing. I mean, the Zelda series, Star Fox series and Mario series characters certainly aren't racing. I mean there's a lot of traveling and running around, but that happens a lot in the Brawl intro too. :/
Really though, they're just sort of the same.

Yes, but again, the introduction just gives off a "feel" that everyone is racing to face one another. The game feels like a giant clash of the greatest Nintendo characters of all-time!
Brawl's introduction is like "Okay, here's Link with Yoshi, Pit with Mario, and Kirby with Peach, all about ready to fight a bunch of boring enemies. This is what the game is about."

I considers the "all-stars" left to be K. Rool, Ridley, and Mewtwo.

Pretty much this. After that, the only real big name characters left to choose are 3rd party characters (which is mostly just Mega Man).

Also, I thought Melee's game speed was great, aside from teams (which takes a while to get used to). I think maybe have the game speed somewhere inbetween Melee and Smash 64, have infinite air dodging like Brawl, return all of the Brawl techniques (footstool hopping [but better], wall teching, roof teching, teching), make L-cancelling automatic. Then, make offense better (where four star offense beats four star offense most or all of the time, but four star offense is beaten by five star defense all of the time), makes some quick combos, and make the low tier characters better in the air.

Oh, and make Jigglypuff and Captain Falcon like how they were in Melee (and Mario more like Dr. Mario in Melee). That is a must.

 

[Pichu Fan]

Sheik has importance and relevance, theres a little game called
"Ocarina Of Time 3D":sheikbrawl:

 

[Johnknight1]

Can we all just come to the realization that Sheik isn't going anywhere (really, making Sheik cel-shaded like Zelda in Skyward Sword is easy to do), and that Impa is not going to magically replace Sheik=??? That won't happen. Geesh, this is getting ridiculous. Can't we just go back to starting a flame war over the Victini vs. Zoroark debate=???

On a side note, what do you all think should be done (if anything should be done) to modify Ness and/or Lucas' moves to make them more unlike one another (although they are pretty different) and to make them more like their characters in EarthBound and MOTHER 3.

 

[Pieman0920]

Yes, but again, the introduction just gives off a "feel" that everyone is racing to face one another. The game feels like a giant clash of the greatest Nintendo characters of all-time!
Brawl's introduction is like "Okay, here's Link with Yoshi, Pit with Mario, and Kirby with Peach, all about ready to fight a bunch of boring enemies. This is what the game is about."
of the time), makes some quick combos, and make the low tier characters better in the air.

See, that's just really really subjective. You could just go "Okay, here's Mario just kicking at space while Pech wavs around and Bowser watches while on fire. And here's DK running through a forrest...and Link making a bunch of poses and Popo jumping around, oh he slipped! Oh wait, Nana got him. Oh boy, Samus is in a intense fight with Ridley! And Fox is in an intense fight with Wolf! And Captain Falcon is in an intense fight with Samurai Goroh! And...half those characters aren't in the game...Random scenes random scenes random scenes" and that would be equally valid. :V

Spoiler

Seriously, for the actual cutscene fights in Melee's intro past that initial stare down between Mario/Link/Kirby/Pika they are all have characters who aren't actually in the game. How weird. I guess you could say Mewtwo vs. DK is in there, but you never see Mewtwo

 

[Luco]

I actually quite like the floati- of brawl's mechanics, but I guess that's just personal feel. With quite a lot of people, after playing with melee for so long, brawl's air game can feel a bit weird at first. Hmm....

 

[Baskerville]

Can we all just come to the realization that Sheik isn't going anywhere (really, making Sheik cel-shaded like Zelda in Skyward Sword is easy to do), and that Impa is not going to magically replace Sheik=??? That won't happen. Geesh, this is getting ridiculous. Can't we just go back to starting a flame war over the Victini vs. Zoroark debate=???

On a side note, what do you all think should be done (if anything should be done) to modify Ness and/or Lucas' moves to make them more unlike one another (although they are pretty different) and to make them more like their characters in EarthBound and MOTHER 3.

Just modify their moves, and I'll be happy.

 

[Conviction]

I want to see 2v2v2 now

 

[Pichu Fan]

Ness Lucas ideas

Ness
B- Pk Flash
Side B- Pk Fire
Up B- Pk Rockin
Down B- Psi Magnet
FS- Pk Starstorm

Lucas
B-Pk Freeze
Side B- Pk Ground
Up B- Pk Thunder
Down B- Psi Hypnosis
FS- Pk Love

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Pieman: I guess ya don't get it what we said... Maybe its just you...

Anyway, everybody expecting Sheik... feels bit boring to me that Sheik is a must in every Smash because of her moveset. She'd be new Ice Climbers in SSB4.

 

[ChronoBound]

I say the only all stars left are

Mii
Toad
Ridley
Mewtwo
Takamaru
Little Mac
King K Rool
Dixie Kong
Tingle

Did I miss anyone? Oh yeah, impa, but we already have sheik:grimahshine:

I could see a case for all of those characters with the exception of Takamaru and Tingle.

 

[JavaCroc]

Do I need to post my SSB4 Opening script again?

 

[~ Valkyrie ~]

Java: Hey, add in sequences for more characters, like Lip and Takamaru. Impa too.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Can we all just come to the realization that Sheik isn't going anywhere (really, making Sheik cel-shaded like Zelda in Skyward Sword is easy to do), and that Impa is not going to magically replace Sheik=??? That won't happen. Geesh, this is getting ridiculous. Can't we just go back to starting a flame war over the Victini vs. Zoroark debate=???

On a side note, what do you all think should be done (if anything should be done) to modify Ness and/or Lucas' moves to make them more unlike one another (although they are pretty different) and to make them more like their characters in EarthBound and MOTHER 3.

Give Lucas PK Ground and PK Love(Final Smash). Give Ness PK Rockin(Final Smash) and keep the rest the same. That's all I can think of right now.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Can we all just come to the realization that Sheik isn't going anywhere (really, making Sheik cel-shaded like Zelda in Skyward Sword is easy to do), and that Impa is not going to magically replace Sheik=??? That won't happen. Geesh, this is getting ridiculous. Can't we just go back to starting a flame war over the Victini vs. Zoroark debate=???

On a side note, what do you all think should be done (if anything should be done) to modify Ness and/or Lucas' moves to make them more unlike one another (although they are pretty different) and to make them more like their characters in EarthBound and MOTHER 3.

Not before considering she could very well get replaced for Impa. The timing to do so right now is perfect for that.

Ness should actually have had PK Flash for side B, or PK (status effect) with PK Teleport for up B.

PK Flash could also have status effects on it (and work / look more like that cutscene in the SSE against Porky) and Side B could be the Magnet. Down B could then be either Teleport or PK Rockin.

 

[Disfunkshunal]

Pieman: I guess ya don't get it what we said... Maybe its just you...

Anyway, everybody expecting Sheik... feels bit boring to me that Sheik is a must in every Smash because of her moveset. She'd be new Ice Climbers in SSB4.

No its not just him, he's just the only one wants to debate it.

I want to see 2v2v2 now

3 way doubles/ 3v3 crew battles would be hype!!

 

[ChronoBound]

Watch Sakurai will have an open poll and he will happen to read Diddy's entry about Impa replacing Sheik, and Sakurai will be like and have Impa replace Sheik.

Funny enough, Dr. Mario was actually suggested pre-Melee as a costume for Mario, and Sakurai's response was this:

Dr. Mario? He would not work as a costume since he does not throw fireballs...

*adds him as a full character instead in the final game