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New Smash Bros for WiiU

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Diddy Kong

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I figure this year, Ghirahim is going to make it or break it you know? Like, the fanbase he is going to grab this year, should be an indicator on how popular he will be the next few years. So, if he doesn't pick up much steam this year, we will probably not see him pick up much of a fanbase at any point. The reason I think this way is because this is like, PRIME TIME for Ghirahim. His game was released recently, and this is when everyone is getting their first impressions of him. In terms of fanbase, I doubt he's going to be much bigger than Midna. I mean, esp with the more.... conservative users. He's pretty effeminate.

SO, in terms of fanbase (Which means about..... that much to Sakurai) I think he will be lacking. Ghirahim's only hope is if Sakurai looks at him and goes, "Meh, I could make it work."
"Fabulous Debbie" seemed more popular than Ghirahim to me. He would easily fit in, no problem but I thought personally Midna was better than him.

Just keeping my mouth shut about another character that fits the bill right imo just for now though. :awesome:

Nah, not Takamaru. That's Saki's job. :awesome:
Judging from the AT in Brawl, and a bit of what I've seen from the Wii Sin & Punishment game (where his son plays in if I'm not mistaken) he looks the most like Pit in terms of playstyle. He could resemble the Brawl Pit a lot, while Pit in Smash 4 gets a Uprising makeover in his moveset?
 

JavaCroc

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Thank you, also I don't blame you for getting bored, hense the last few pages, just come back and visit. ;)
I'll definitely do that occasionally. ;) BTW, what have I missed in the few weeks that I've been on and off the site? I know I've missed Sheik-Impa discussion for one. (Thank God.)


On-topic, if you were restricted to choosing new characters by their franchise, would choose to add new characters for existing SSB franchises or new characters from new franchises? (I can't think of any good questions anymore)
 

AetherEch0s

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I'll definitely do that occasionally. ;) BTW, what have I missed in the few weeks that I've been on and off the site? I know I've missed Sheik-Impa discussion for one. (Thank God.)


On-topic, if you were restricted to choosing new characters by their franchise, would choose to add new characters for existing SSB franchises or new characters from new franchises? (I can't think of any good questions anymore)
New characters from new franchises obviously. The only veteran series lacking is Metroid.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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I'll definitely do that occasionally. ;) BTW, what have I missed in the few weeks that I've been on and off the site? I know I've missed Sheik-Impa discussion for one. (Thank God.)


On-topic, if you were restricted to choosing new characters by their franchise, would choose to add new characters for existing SSB franchises or new characters from new franchises? (I can't think of any good questions anymore)
As much as I'd want to put new characters onto existing franchises, I think it's best to introduce brand new ones.
 

Diddy Kong

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Characters from existing franchises by far! Most of my favorite game series are already in Smash, excluding Golden Sun, but I could trade Isaac for characters as King K.Rool, Mewtwo, Dixie, Impa, Chrome, Hector (yes I want him, debate Roy vs Hector with me if you dare, Toad and Ridley in for sure! But it's a bit egoistical for me to want all those in, and not have a few new franchises. Especially since we might get K.Rool and Mewtwo anyway (which would still most of my hunger). But I think I'd have to say excisting franchises, mainly cause they are already so good. :)

And no, DK is still lacking as well. Could easily have K.Rool and / or Dixie and we'd still not be over repping. I'd say Fire Emblem could easily have 3~4 characters as well, and Krystal, Toad, Ashley and Samurai Goroh / Black Shadow are suggested heavily ever since Brawl.
 

TheFirstPoppyBro

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New franchises. Starfy, Issac, Little Mac, Megaman, etc. Excluding Ridley, Mewtwo, Bandana Dee, and K. Rool, of course. :troll:

:phone:
 

Shorts

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Impa is a joke. Pretty much end of story. She's like Zant, but not a main villain. He was overshadowed by Midna, but at least you could argue he was a "Major Villain" or something. What could you argue for Impa? She shows up a lot, but so does Tingle, and he has his own games.

Flavor of the month goes to Ghirahim
Next more important character goes to Tingle

If Impa isn't the next most "Important" or the flashy fotm, then why pick her?

She's like, an uncool Genesect.
 

Bowserlick

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Can Bowser get a decent projectile please? -_-
Bowser's role is that of a tank. He wants to trade blows with his opponents. His immense weight makes sure that he gets the better part of that deal.

In order to be a good tank, he needs more super armor frames. He should have the most, especially considering the lag before and after some of his moves. Also his shell should absorb stun and either knockback or damage (allowing him to approach by jumping or crawling backwards.

A new mechanic could be "momentum" which allows characters to resist knockback when they are running forward. Weak moves would not stop a Bowser charge.

Getting rid of chain throws would help the game in general. Just change a person's grab into a push if he tried to grab after a throw.
 

Verde Coeden Scalesworth

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New Franchises

Although Metroid, Wario, F-Zero, and Yoshi could use more anyway. But I want some newer stuff too.
 

Shorts

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On-topic, if you were restricted to choosing new characters by their franchise, would choose to add new characters for existing SSB franchises or new characters from new franchises? (I can't think of any good questions anymore)
Existing Franchise. I'm not going to pretend like Little Mac and Isaac excite me. Syrup, Mona, Junior, Krystal, Goroh, and Ridley get me excited. Simple as that.
 

Pichu Fan

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My brief prince of sable moveset-

[COLLAPSE="Moveset"]His fighting style would be him using his sword and some punches and kicks. However, since he is a somewhat a "noob" when it comes to swords, he would pull off gimicky slashes and jabs. One side note is that when he touches water he becomes a frog.

Neutral Special- Potion. Sable gets out a potion. If you press A, he throws it and if it hits an opponent, for 3-4 seconds they would become snakes. Snakes are very fast but only have one jump and 1 attack. By pressing either A or B, they do a weak bite that does 2-5% damage. If while holding the potion you press B, Sable becomes a snake, same as if an opponent became one, except by pressing B he can get out of the snake form whenever he wants.

Forward special- Money Bag Sable throws a small bag full of money. You could charge it so the size, range and power of the bag increases. It can deal between 5-22% damage, depending on how much you charge it.

Up special- Bell Slash This one is lazy because i couldnt think of a good one. Sable does a slash upward just like marths up special. It is weaker, but goes higher. Also when using it you can hear a bell ring in the background. it does between 6-10% damage

Down Special- Frog Out of his hand, sable puts a frog down on the ground. these frogs wander around the stage, and occasionaly latch onto opponents dealing minor damage. He can have only up to 2 out on the stage at a time. One more side note is that if an opponent or sable are snakes, they run away scared and jump off the stage.

FINAL SMASH- Its raining frogs This is made up, just like lots of final smashes in brawl. Sable raises a sword up, and a giant bell appears up above. The bell rings a few time (opponents that touch the bell take between 7-10% damage). When the bell rings, out of it fall frogs (about 20) just like sables down special frogs, they wander around and latch on. However, when latching on, they do more damge and latch on for a longer time. However, after a certain amount of time, all frogs dissapear.[/COLLAPSE]

Wa da ya think?
 
D

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JavaCroc said:
On-topic, if you were restricted to choosing new characters by their franchise, would choose to add new characters for existing SSB franchises or new characters from new franchises? (I can't think of any good questions anymore)
That's pretty hard to decide. I have plenty of wants from both sections, but I'll go with existing since I think we need to focus on completing existing franchises before moving on to new franchises.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Bowser's role is that of a tank. He wants to trade blows with his opponents. His immense weight makes sure that he gets the better part of that deal.

In order to be a good tank, he needs more super armor frames. He should have the most, especially considering the lag before and after some of his moves. Also his shell should absorb stun and either knockback or damage (allowing him to approach by jumping or crawling backwards.

A new mechanic could be "momentum" which allows characters to resist knockback when they are running forward. Weak moves would not stop a Bowser charge.

Getting rid of chain throws would help the game in general. Just change a person's grab into a push if he tried to grab after a throw.
Yeah for a tank, Bowser has it hard. He should be offering one of the strongest defenses out there, but obviously, his speed would have to be quite low as well.
 

Bowserlick

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Yeah for a tank, Bowser has it hard. He should be offering one of the strongest defenses out there, but obviously, his speed would have to be quite low as well.
With the changes I suggested, he could still have an average running speed like Mario. His big model is an acceptable weakness.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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With the changes I suggested, he could still have an average running speed like Mario. His big model is an acceptable weakness.
I still find Bowser's running speed to be an odd sight. Of course, Bowser's footwork has varied from game to game, so that seems like a valid point.
 

Bowserlick

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I still find Bowser's running speed to be an odd sight. Of course, Bowser's footwork has varied from game to game, so that seems like a valid point.
Bowser's actual run is strange. He should at least use his tail as a rudder, wagging it back and forth, so his movement makes sense.
 

Diddy Kong

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Impa is a joke. Pretty much end of story. She's like Zant, but not a main villain. He was overshadowed by Midna, but at least you could argue he was a "Major Villain" or something. What could you argue for Impa? She shows up a lot, but so does Tingle, and he has his own games.

Flavor of the month goes to Ghirahim
Next more important character goes to Tingle

If Impa isn't the next most "Important" or the flashy fotm, then why pick her?

She's like, an uncool Genesect.
She's a BAD *** first class! And you wouldn't even know it! It's being hinted at very, very subtle, but she's got an awesome role infact! Gonna explian this so...

Spoiler mode on:

She's the personal choice of the Goddesses to guide both Zelda and Link to their destiny, lives up to 1000 years while still not breaking even one bone while being kicked by Fabulous Debbie, was pretty much vital for Zelda to survive her mission (mostly off screen though but at least it was there), is the only one out of Link, Zelda and Ghirahim trio to know what she's actually doing all along (Ghirahim was mostly just ****ing around- even admitted it himself at a point), she actually logically crossed through the whole same dungeons as you / Link did- without items even, and is pretty much the only true 'human' character in Hyrule unless you count the Gorons. She protects Zelda out of order of the Goddesses, and if you look at it like I do- you'll see she is the one who eventually suffered the most in the quest, yet remained calm, wise and strong all along, just to serve the Goddesses. She even helps Groose find his destiny or purpose in the story, who was pretty much an useless showof (who'd also actually make a good hairdresser, I thank Impa for this!). Her role vs Sheik vastly differs cause mainly, she is not Zelda herself but her CHOOSEN body guard from the Goddesses themselves. She is a whole different level than even Link, Zelda and Ganon are- which was unthinked of before. She even explained it herself that the Sheikah are the chosen people to protect the Royal Family always and forever. It's therefore extremely likely that everyone called Impa, was also infact the same incaration as the SS one, similary to Link and Zelda. A 4th chain attached to a 2nd in a 3 way split of power. That is Impa.

All that, and as said before she's a black chick. :awesome: Nintendo's first, and therefore finest.

There's also the other stuff I've been debating, but they didn't involve her role mostly, just how Sheik is inferiour to her. I'll still have to do a SS Hero Mode run, so if I overlooked details, I'll be back on it later.

Ghirahim is flavor of the month
Tingle is funky-licious, but it'll get you drunk. Too drunk. The kind of drunk you'll feel embarassed about later on...
But Impa is that fruity exotic taste that even though not everyone might like- is the best thing ever once realised the value of from it. -Great antioxidants to! Full with vitamin C and.. *gets shot*

...Sheik is vanilla. Great when coupled with strawberry (which is Zelda) but the taste get's old quickly. Besides, fruit should be mixed with other fruit flavours :awesome:

By having writen this all, plus my past arguements please know where I stand regarding Impa being selected in Smash 4 instead of Sheik. But people really tend to stick with their two favorite flavors unfortunately...
 

nLiM8d

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I'd like to give an objective viewpoint on character viability, its important to consider these options but always we must be mindful of how to go about them.

[COLLAPSE="Please consider my thoughts "Diddy Kong""]When I think of Impa, the first thing that comes to mind are those cutscenes from the latest Skyward Sword trailers. Granted this may be the first time anyone has seen a character portrayed in this light, its important to consider what such cameo appearances mean. Impa wouldn't be the first to portray a significant role outside of the major characters of the "tri-force". At first glance, she seems to fit the role similar to the Chozo, characters that have relevance to the plot, but indistinct according to the gameplay as a whole.

What's interesting about Impa is that she performs in what I call a working cast role. The best example I could think to compare that to is a character like Metaknight. Surely he would be considered indistinct by gameplay standards. Not until recently has he become a focal character in the plot-lines of the Kirby series. Mind you that not all of the roles that he has had were directed by Kirby's creator. It would be similar to saying that the black soldier in the latest Metroid game has discernible credibility over the entire series. No, Impa is an enigma; more accurately compared to Adam Malcovich of Metroid, who's role was subtle to the story progression, but still has an impact to the story as a whole.

Lets dig deeper by what I'm trying to mention. From what I've mentioned, I can hold a viewpoint that a character like metaknight, though subjective in his promotional value towards the Kirby franchise, had enough viability in his options to entice players into believing in his credibility overall. The only other working cast members that have held Smash credibility like that are Yoshi and Zamus. Diddy comes rather close, but he has been a face of the Country series since its infancy (Dixie would serve that role more acurately).

Mind you, Metaknight and Impa have yet to star in their own games like my other mentions, but still have significance to their respective franchises. The reason that I mention these indicators is to distinguish how these characters relate to other notable mentions. Within the Zelda series, we have characters like Young link, Vaati, Midna, Ghirahim, Tetra, and perhaps even Groose that are involved in certain plotlines. However, from an objectionable standpoint, these roles serve a distinct purpose correlating to those respective plotlines only. We know that Young Link is involved in time travel, more aptly known in games that focus on certain periods such as Majora's Mask. There's Tetra, who serves the role of a certain Zelda to promote interesting plot twists. Midna works with the plot gimmicks, much like asking for the skyward sword to be PC. We know who to label "antagonist" and finally we know that artstyles tend to signify the mood of the game (which is where Groose comes in).

Now, I'm not a LoZ expert by any means, but just because I'm not engrossed in certain franchises doesn't mean that I can't recognize certain patterns. From the details I have registered, Impa seems to have a distinguished reoccurring role; VERY similar to how the faces of LoZ are approached throughout the series. That signifies, at least to me, that she has credible enough enigma to be compared to the likes of Metakinght.

Moving on to the more "philosophical" light of character viability, we have playable character criteria to consider. My first viewpoint would be veteran status.

I am aware that cameo appearances have a great impact when it comes to registering history. Characters like Doctor Mario, Roy, and Pichu have a notable following, even to the extent that the bonds of clone status are negligible as long as you can determine a proper moveset. In my eyes, I believe that characters with a similar frame, outside of the realm of the "working cast" have less viability in the direction of a luigified status, but that is simply because I have realistic expectations when it comes to roster sizes (aka slots). My only bias is that characters from different franchises, with different patterns of distinction would bear no consideration solely based on what Vet status means to most fans. A character like Mewtwo does not fall under this type branding; Roy follows closely behind for notable reasons.

In regards to character replacement, I discern this phenomena carefully. An example would be someone like Snake, who by way of guest status could easily be omitted bar the sake of being a veteran. Though I am okay with these notions, I am inclined to discredit ideas of moveset acquisition or inheritance. I would prefer that the team focus on the organic genuineness of creating a moves that befit a character from the ground up. Oddly enough, though I feel that Snake show go, I believe that his situation is different from Sonic's; who I believe has the potential to create two sets of movesets. Go figure.

So bringing this back to Impa and Shiek, we have a combination of different things to consider. Any mention of Impa functioning as a tutor would discredit her outright. Many would be uneasy with an idea that a new character as such, being virtually the same origin, would have any notable differences to a character that has already "earned" a position (they have it registered that Sheik is Zelda and vise versa). Any reasoning, regardless of how strong, would be ignored based on an inability to envision where Impa would fit. Would she share the Zelda slot? Does she martyr over Tingle's chances? How viable is she compared to Ghirahim? All based on the notion that she "has no" characteristics to distinguish her from what we've seen before.

I recognize these concerns, yet it means nothing when I am able to consider Impa in her own right. She gives the most tangible insight to the ancient connections of the LoZ stories. That statement would be vague unless you can process the plotlines overall. Ironic, because overall, those connections that produce the storyline are vague in themselves, all you see are the climactic resolves that involve the units of the Tri-fore (aka the faces of LoZ ). If we could consider who Impa is, not by relation to other characters and philosophical phenonema, but as her own entity. If we could note Impa's character as a the guardian role, there might be a chance that a working role character can come about from the Legend of Zelda slots. Otherwise, we can expect more of the same faces and/or expectations[/COLLAPSE]


Shortiecanbrawl said:
Impa is a joke. Pretty much end of story.
Constant use of Loaded language: the reason you have no friends.
 

Shorts

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No matter what you say, Sheik is about 10000x's more important than Impa in terms of Smash, and that is that.

And if you're arguing for a roster with Sheik, AND Impa, I would say, you're silly.

If any of you have played Balanced Brawl (Which is TONS of fun, btw), they did a really good job making Bowser pretty damn viable. Sakurai should seriously just look at that for reference.
Project M fixed him up as well.

@N, do you think I give a ****?
 

Hoots

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Super armour, better approach options and mobility, yeah.
If any of you have played Balanced Brawl (Which is TONS of fun, btw), they did a really good job making Bowser pretty damn viable. Sakurai should seriously just look at that for reference.
 

Oasis_S

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Is Smash speculation a science or a philosophy? :awesome:


ALSO: Let's not forget that in Brawl's data, Sakurai considered "Toon Sheik," not Tetra. :troll:
 

nLiM8d

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Yeah actually, it stops people from giving credible opinions and I got to say Its starting to get abusive.

I'll report if need be.

Hoots said:
If any of you have played Balanced Brawl (Which is TONS of fun, btw), they did a really good job making Bowser pretty damn viable. Sakurai should seriously just look at that for reference.
Can't wait to try it.
 

Pichu Fan

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All right let me say what i think about the impa thing-

When it comes to "the legend of zelda" series, impa is way more important then sheik.
When it comes to the "super smash bros." series, sheik is more important.
 

ChronoBound

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No matter what you say, Sheik is about 10000x's more important than Impa in terms of Smash, and that is that.

And if you're arguing for a roster with Sheik, AND Impa, I would say, you're silly.
Shortie has this one completely right.

The only two choices for a Zelda newcomer are Ghirahim and Tingle (and maybe Toon Zelda). However, I personally think Zelda is fine with the characters it has now.
 

Shorts

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I'm shaking in my boots! The only reason I came back is to promote this poll, because it's the only thing I care about.

The only two choices for a Zelda newcomer are Ghirahim and Tingle (and maybe Toon Zelda). However, I personally think Zelda is fine with the characters it has now.
Agreed. The only reason I consider Toon Zelda, is because she was considered at one point for Brawl. I think she is a poor choice just because she was most likely going to be an all out clone. I mean, Toon Sheik? Come on Sakurai. That character didn't even exist.
 

nLiM8d

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Its all good here, I wonder if you can go a whole day without having "opinionated" on the agenda.

Someone please give me insight on Prince Sable.
 

AetherEch0s

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My brief prince of sable moveset-

[COLLAPSE="Moveset"]His fighting style would be him using his sword and some punches and kicks. However, since he is a somewhat a "noob" when it comes to swords, he would pull off gimicky slashes and jabs. One side note is that when he touches water he becomes a frog.

Neutral Special- Potion. Sable gets out a potion. If you press A, he throws it and if it hits an opponent, for 3-4 seconds they would become snakes. Snakes are very fast but only have one jump and 1 attack. By pressing either A or B, they do a weak bite that does 2-5% damage. If while holding the potion you press B, Sable becomes a snake, same as if an opponent became one, except by pressing B he can get out of the snake form whenever he wants.

Forward special- Money Bag Sable throws a small bag full of money. You could charge it so the size, range and power of the bag increases. It can deal between 5-22% damage, depending on how much you charge it.

Up special- Bell Slash This one is lazy because i couldnt think of a good one. Sable does a slash upward just like marths up special. It is weaker, but goes higher. Also when using it you can hear a bell ring in the background. it does between 6-10% damage

Down Special- Frog Out of his hand, sable puts a frog down on the ground. these frogs wander around the stage, and occasionaly latch onto opponents dealing minor damage. He can have only up to 2 out on the stage at a time. One more side note is that if an opponent or sable are snakes, they run away scared and jump off the stage.

FINAL SMASH- Its raining frogs This is made up, just like lots of final smashes in brawl. Sable raises a sword up, and a giant bell appears up above. The bell rings a few time (opponents that touch the bell take between 7-10% damage). When the bell rings, out of it fall frogs (about 20) just like sables down special frogs, they wander around and latch on. However, when latching on, they do more damge and latch on for a longer time. However, after a certain amount of time, all frogs dissapear.[/COLLAPSE]

Wa da ya think?

I prefer one that takes advantage of his transformations to the fullest.
[COLLAPSE="Prince of Sable moveset"]
The Prince of Sable
The Prince is light, but overall a balanced fighter. However, his transformations alter his attributes to make him play differently.
Human Form - The prince does average damage and has average defenses, recovery and jump height.
Frog Form - The prince does much less damage, but has the highest jump height and air mobility.
Snake Form - The prince does the most damage and has the highest ground movement speed, but has the worst recovery of the three, and no jump height to speak of.

B - En Garde - The prince engages a nearby opponent in battle. Both are surrounded by a puff of dust as the battle ensues out of sight. Both players take light damage over the course of a few moments until the opponent is knocked away. This is a high risk, high reward move, as if the opponent has less damage than you when you initiate the move, you will be the one knocked away at the end. To take best advantage of this move, keep an eye on both players damage percentage beforehand. If you press and hold B at any time as either Frog or Snake form you will instantly transform back into Human form and use En Garde.

Side B - Leap Frog - The prince transforms into his Frog form and hops forward several times, doing more damage and jumping higher with each bounce. If you press and hold Side B in either Snake or Human form you will instantly transform into Frog form and use Leap Frog.

Up B - High Jump - The prince squats, then jumps upwards. Height differs depending on which form you are in.

Down B - Snake Bite - The prince transforms into his Snake form and bites with poisonous fangs. Moderate damage and poison status effect. If you press and hold Down B at any time as Human or Frog form you will instantly transform into Snake form and use Snake Bite.

Final Smash - The Spring Bell Tolls - The prince pulls out a bell and rings it. Its ring echoes for a moment then hundreds of frogs leap onto the stage. They hop around, getting in the way of attacks and bumping characters off the stage. The prince is free to move throughout the entire move. [/COLLAPSE]

Someone please give me insight on Prince Sable.
Hes from an amazing Japan-only Gameboy game called For the Frog the Bell Tolls. Throughtout the game he gains the ability to transform into a Frog and Snake. The game was a sistergame to LoZ:Link's Awakening and the prince's rival, Prince Richard even cameos in it. Theres a recent fan translation of the game that has helped it gain popularity in the english speaking world. Its truly a shame that more people havent played it.

[COLLAPSE="Prince's Forms"]


[/COLLAPSE]
 

ChronoBound

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I think I might drop this here while we are on the topic of Skyward Sword. However, Skyward Sword seems to be selling poorly in every region outside of North America (though I am not sure how Skyward Sword did outside of November in NA). Its the lowest selling 3D Zelda in Japan.
 
D

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@nLiM8d: I don't think I can respond to the entire thing and I do see where you're coming from with the "Working Role Character" (if I understand you right), but I do think that there's a large difference between Meta-Knight and Impa.

Impa is basically just as you said, a NPC guardian role for Link and acts like an assistance towards Link. Meta-Knight's role is much different. In Kirby's Adventure, he was a rival towards Kirby near the end of the game in which he gave you a sword to fight him and in Kirby Super Star, he tried to take over Dream Land, which is a very antagonistic action. Meta-Knight has also served as a protagonist (even if not the main one) in Kirby games (a similar case can be applied for Wario, who has made protagonist and antagonistic appearance). Meta-Knight's role has been much more varied and remembered then that of Impa's, who when you boil it all down, hasn't evolved much from being Link's assistance.
 

Diddy Kong

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Impa AND Sheik cannot do. These are not Lucario and Mewtwo we're talking about. And I've covered my part about the Smash bit a bit like 2 or 3 pages back. Keeping it short: it was a great idea for Melee, but not the best executed one. You want Pokemon Trainer gone for this, I want Zelda / Sheik Impa revamped for this. Be that as a separate Impa or a more balanced Zelda overall I don't really care about. But it should happen as it's obviously not working to it's fullest potential.

I'd like to give an objective viewpoint on character viability, its important to consider these options but always we must be mindful of how to go about them.

[COLLAPSE="Please consider my thoughts "Diddy Kong""]When I think of Impa, the first thing that comes to mind are those cutscenes from the latest Skyward Sword trailers. Granted this may be the first time anyone has seen a character portrayed in this light, its important to consider what such cameo appearances mean. Impa wouldn't be the first to portray a significant role outside of the major characters of the "tri-force". At first glance, she seems to fit the role similar to the Chozo, characters that have relevance to the plot, but indistinct according to the gameplay as a whole.

What's interesting about Impa is that she performs in what I call a working cast role. The best example I could think to compare that to is a character like Metaknight. Surely he would be considered indistinct by gameplay standards. Not until recently has he become a focal character in the plot-lines of the Kirby series. Mind you that not all of the roles that he has had were directed by Kirby's creator. It would be similar to saying that the black soldier in the latest Metroid game has discernible credibility over the entire series. No, Impa is an enigma; more accurately compared to Adam Malcovich of Metroid, who's role was subtle to the story progression, but still has an impact to the story as a whole.

Lets dig deeper by what I'm trying to mention. From what I've mentioned, I can hold a viewpoint that a character like metaknight, though subjective in his promotional value towards the Kirby franchise, had enough viability in his options to entice players into believing in his credibility overall. The only other working cast members that have held Smash credibility like that are Yoshi and Zamus. Diddy comes rather close, but he has been a face of the Country series since its infancy (Dixie would serve that role more acurately).

Mind you, Metaknight and Impa have yet to star in their own games like my other mentions, but still have significance to their respective franchises. The reason that I mention these indicators is to distinguish how these characters relate to other notable mentions. Within the Zelda series, we have characters like Young link, Vaati, Midna, Ghirahim, Tetra, and perhaps even Groose that are involved in certain plotlines. However, from an objectionable standpoint, these roles serve a distinct purpose correlating to those respective plotlines only. We know that Young Link is involved in time travel, more aptly known in games that focus on certain periods such as Majora's Mask. There's Tetra, who serves the role of a certain Zelda to promote interesting plot twists. Midna works with the plot gimmicks, much like asking for the skyward sword to be PC. We know who to label "antagonist" and finally we know that artstyles tend to signify the mood of the game (which is where Groose comes in).

Now, I'm not a LoZ expert by any means, but just because I'm not engrossed in certain franchises doesn't mean that I can't recognize certain patterns. From the details I have registered, Impa seems to have a distinguished reoccurring role; VERY similar to how the faces of LoZ are approached throughout the series. That signifies, at least to me, that she has credible enough enigma to be compared to the likes of Metakinght.

Moving on to the more "philosophical" light of character viability, we have playable character criteria to consider. My first viewpoint would be veteran status.

I am aware that cameo appearances have a great impact when it comes to registering history. Characters like Doctor Mario, Roy, and Pichu have a notable following, even to the extent that the bonds of clone status are negligible as long as you can determine a proper moveset. In my eyes, I believe that characters with a similar frame, outside of the realm of the "working cast" have less viability in the direction of a luigified status, but that is simply because I have realistic expectations when it comes to roster sizes (aka slots). My only bias is that characters from different franchises, with different patterns of distinction would bear no consideration solely based on what Vet status means to most fans. A character like Mewtwo does not fall under this type branding; Roy follows closely behind for notable reasons.

In regards to character replacement, I discern this phenomena carefully. An example would be someone like Snake, who by way of guest status could easily be omitted bar the sake of being a veteran. Though I am okay with these notions, I am inclined to discredit ideas of moveset acquisition or inheritance. I would prefer that the team focus on the organic genuineness of creating a moves that befit a character from the ground up. Oddly enough, though I feel that Snake show go, I believe that his situation is different from Sonic's; who I believe has the potential to create two sets of movesets. Go figure.

So bringing this back to Impa and Shiek, we have a combination of different things to consider. Any mention of Impa functioning as a tutor would discredit her outright. Many would be uneasy with an idea that a new character as such, being virtually the same origin, would have any notable differences to a character that has already "earned" a position (they have it registered that Sheik is Zelda and vise versa). Any reasoning, regardless of how strong, would be ignored based on an inability to envision where Impa would fit. Would she share the Zelda slot? Does she martyr over Tingle's chances? How viable is she compared to Ghirahim? All based on the notion that she "has no" characteristics to distinguish her from what we've seen before.

I recognize these concerns, yet it means nothing when I am able to consider Impa in her own right. She gives the most tangible insight to the ancient connections of the LoZ stories. That statement would be vague unless you can process the plotlines overall. Ironic, because overall, those connections that produce the storyline are vague in themselves, all you see are the climactic resolves that involve the units of the Tri-fore (aka the faces of LoZ ). If we could consider who Impa is, not by relation to other characters and philosophical phenonema, but as her own entity. If we could note Impa's character as a the guardian role, there might be a chance that a working role character can come about from the Legend of Zelda slots. Otherwise, we can expect more of the same faces and/or expectations[/COLLAPSE]
Difference with Mewtwo is that he was also at the very least planned or considered for both 64 and Brawl. And Impa is far less of a narator, or tutor than she ever was actually. That might've been the case in previous Zelda's, but in SS her role is of coarse like that- plus the spoiled part. Point is that Zelda, as a series overall- hasn't tried to revive Sheik yet either despite her being so popular (and they know it of coarse).

So my arguement is: why keep beating a dead horse? Yeah it might've been your beloved golden thropy winning running horse, but dead meat is unfortunately just; dead meat. Impa might not be as popular as Sheik YET- but why not give her that chance? She's had an awesome revival to say so, her role greatly exeeded in SS from what any would've suspected (yes, even though she DOES have similarities in her role overall as Sheik, but that's Nintendo's fault. Besides, Ghirahim looks like Zant to. And Midna is probably still the best) and Impa as a re-occuring character has chances to even grow more. It's better from looking at it from a future stand point. If Sheik will only return in an Ocarina of Time port for Nintendo 4DS, but Impa will remain in the series constantly who would overall be more important?

Besides as said before: Sheik was only Zelda in ONE instance. That same version of Zelda got her baby bottle feeded by Impa, and then got her tutored into the way of becoming Sheik.

Smash might be able to make a character almost "immortal" for a Nintendo-fan stand point of few, but some just don't deserve that status. Sheik comes up to me as the weakest link, followed up by Ice Climbers, then R.O.B and then maybe Jigglypuff even. And I'm going to say this again: Who said veterans are safe? Iirc, I readed an article saying Sakurai wanted to replace NESS for LUCAS already in Melee. Jiggplyuff might or might not almost got the boot in Brawl to. Probably chosen above Mewtwo because Lucario was already in, and there where "complications" with Mewtwo in Melee (aka suckyness) and Jigglypuff would probably be easier to create.
 

~ Valkyrie ~

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Good one there Aether. Though I dunno about both final smash suggestions- From what I remember, the Spring Bell was meant to turn cursed frogs back to humans again.

Due the fact that Sable's game seems quite Ganbare Goemon-flavoredly bizarre and funny, being even filled actually with japanese culture and even few Nintendo-references, I think Igari Z (A parody on Mazinger Z) from the final boss battle of the game would fit well as a Final Smash for Sable.
Basically Sable takes out Z-Flute and blows on it and then Igari Z emerges out. He'd head in to control it (Like Snake's Final Smash) and give opponents a good beating. :)
 

ChronoBound

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I also have the feeling that Shulk might be further up for consideration in regards to a spot in Smash 4 than Isaac. The primary reason for this is that there seems to be far more Japanese interest in Xenoblade than in the Golden Sun series (especially after the third installment was released). Xenoblade seems to be developing into some sort of cult hit over there.

I think we will have much more people want Shulk here once Xenoblade is finally released in North America.
 

AetherEch0s

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Good one there Aether. Though I dunno about both final smash suggestions- From what I remember, the Spring Bell was meant to turn cursed frogs back to humans again.

Due the fact that Sable's game seems quite Ganbare Goemon-flavoredly bizarre and funny, being even filled actually with japanese culture and even few Nintendo-references, I think Igari Z (A parody on Mazinger Z) from the final boss battle of the game would fit well as a Final Smash for Sable.
Basically Sable takes out Z-Flute and blows on it and then Igari Z emerges out. He'd head in to control it (Like Snake's Final Smash) and give opponents a good beating. :)
Yeah, i've seen other movesets that involve it as the final smash. I decided to go with the bell to further imply the theme of the game, despite twisting it's function a bit. We all know Sakurai has done the same in the past anyway. He often neglects the canon ways of things in place of something that works for smash.


I also have the feeling that Shulk might be further up for consideration in regards to a spot in Smash 4 than Isaac. The primary reason for this is that there seems to be far more Japanese interest in Xenoblade than in the Golden Sun series (especially after the third installment was released). Xenoblade seems to be developing into some sort of cult hit over there.

I think we will have much more people want Shulk here once Xenoblade is finally released in North America.
The way i see it, Dark Dawn ruined GoldenSun's chances of a rep. Poor sales and reviews didnt help the fact that every game uses a different protagonist. Isaac is just being pushed further and further back in importance, atleast in Smash terms. Xenoblade will probably even get a sequel, whether direct or not.
 
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