New Smash Bros for WiiU

[augustoflores]

few pages ago, people were talking bout SSB5... if you were referring to the third line... then, around the last 100 pages or so, it was kinda poop to me.

Oh, and i still don't want jigglypuff... but it's not about what i want, is it?

 

[ChronoBound]

When was that? Also, anyone who argues Heracross was the mascot for Gen2 is just wrong.

Heracross was VERY popular back in 2000-2001. Today, he has basically no fanbase outside of Pokemon.

 

[Oasis_S]

I want Heracross and the AC Villager in Smash so I can whack that bug over and over with a net out of revenge for all those beetles flying away from me.

Also, I bet I wouldn't be very happy if the Mach Rider got into Smash and he didn't play exactly like I think he would. I'm just the worst.

 

[Shorts]

Heracross was VERY popular back in 2000-2001. Today, he has basically no fanbase outside of Pokemon.

I get that he was popular (I liked Heracross when I first saw Ash caught him) but I don't think that makes him THE mascot of the second generation, even at that moment. I mean, Ho-Oh, Lugia, Entei, Suicune, the Starters, and Pichu are more Iconic don't you think? Even back then. HECK I forgot about Togepi. I think Heracross is more in the "We are the pokemon with a big fanbase" catagory like Elekid, Slowking, and Marill.

Excited Biker. I want.

 

[Oasis_S]

I am going to punch you so excitedly. Fwaaah.

Who are the other oddballs of Smash speculation? Heracross, Poo, Geno...?

 

[---]

Hmm, well after looking through about 30-50 pages of the old thread all I can say is that not much has changed. Sure there are a few good ideas but there are also some here as well.

The big difference between that thread and this one is that we actually know SSB4 is coming and that expectations are higher causing this thread to grow more conservative in character discussion. Which, of course, is the discussion that makes up the majority of both threads.

 

[ChronoBound]

Keyword is that he (Heracross) WAS the most popular. It has become clear that the mascot of 2nd-gen was probably Pichu (especially considering how notched-earred Pichu was the mascot of HeartGold/SoulSilver). However, he was the most requested 2nd-generation character for Melee. Another 2nd-gen Pokemon I saw get quite a few requests (ouside of the starters) was Tyranitar.

 

[Shorts]

Fawful had some followers as well. Also, I never said finding the good stuff would be easy, but it is there if you're willing to look.

 

[ChronoBound]

Fawful had some followers as well.

Fawful was actually once among the most wanted Mario newcomers during pre-Brawl. However, for some strange reason much of his popularity for Smash Bros. evaporated around the time Brawl was announced. Perhaps a lot of his fanbase migrated to the Geno bandwagon?

 

[Deleted member]

Fawful was actually once among the most wanted Mario newcomers during pre-Brawl. However, for some strange reason much of his popularity for Smash Bros. evaporated around the time Brawl was announced. Perhaps a lot of his fanbase migrated to the Geno bandwagon?

I'm very surprised that the Fawful fan base didn't reinvigorate after Mario & Luigi's Bowser Inside Story. Had it done so, he would have had a semi-decent shot at getting in.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Mascot =/= Popular.

The Mascot is created by the Company. Not the Fanbase. Just saying.

I mean, you can argue specific Legendaries. Box Art. But a popular guy? It's gotta be more than that. And some games share multiple ones. Mortal Kombat has Subzero and Scorpion as dual Mascots, for example. Hell, Onaga could be argued as one, but that's just guessing. Anyway, Heracross was never the mascot of Gen 2.

 

[Shorts]

Ummm I can remember Takamaru, Mii's(Very controversial), Blaziken, and a few others having some support back then.

I would love to see a list of Pre-Melee character choices, and Pre-Brawl character choices. Of course the ones that didn't make it in, interest me more. R.O.B had a fanbase Pre-Brawl, for sure.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm very surprised that the Fawful fan base didn't reinvigorate after Mario & Luigi's Bowser Inside Story. Had it done so, he would have had a semi-decent shot at getting in.

I found that very curious as well. I think it did for a little while (I know Vyers was pushing Fawful as the representative for Mario RPGs).

However, Fawful's best days are now behind him. However, with the release of Paper Mario 3DS, I think we are going to see a lot more support for Paper Mario, especially considering how the game centers more around him this time and not partners.

 

[augustoflores]

i'll never support his inclusion... (paper mario... just to be clear)

 

[Deleted member]

I found that very curious as well. I think it did for a little while (I know Vyers was pushing Fawful as the representative for Mario RPGs).

However, Fawful's best days are now behind him. However, with the release of Paper Mario 3DS, I think we are going to see a lot more support for Paper Mario, especially considering how the game centers more around him this time and not partners.

...and even Vyers dropped Fawful.

I'm personally hoping to see Paper Mario in SSB4. I loved the Paper Mario titles and I would love to see the Mario RPG's represented. What better way to do that then with him? So far, Paper Mario is the only variation of another character I support.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Which, of course, is the discussion that makes up the majority of both threads.

Did you really expect anything different?

 

[Shorts]

If I've learned anything from Sakurai it's to never give him clone material. Paper Mario is essentially that. End of Story. Nothing else to discuss.

Toad and Junior are much less clone territory.... and even they're pushing it.

 

[---]

Did you really expect anything different?

Over all not really. If anything I'd say the thread was pretty much us back in June-July.

Oh well, I at least found a good argument against cutting Lucario and Ike, and having no DHD.

 

[ChronoBound]

If I've learned anything from Sakurai it's to never give him clone material. Paper Mario is essentially that. End of Story. Nothing else to discuss.

Toad and Junior are much less clone territory.... and even they're pushing it.

Sakurai would have to try very hard to make Paper Mario a clone especially considering how the hammer is a large part of Paper Mario's identity as a character. With each release Paper Mario has shown only more abilities added to his repetoire. Sakurai would have to be extraordinarily ignorant to make him a clone. I am sure Intelligent Systems would help notify Sakurai of Paper Mario's diverse range of abilities if he did decide to make Paper Mario a newcomer for Smash 4. If there is anyone of the Mario 3 that has a large potential to be a clone its Bowser Jr.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Shortie, I'm not sure if you worded that wrong or if I'm misreading your post... but I don't see how Toad could be clone material...

And, Tri-Hy, hopefully that those two don't get cut at all.

 

[Shorts]

Sakurai would have to try very hard to make Paper Mario a clone especially considering how the hammer is a large part of Paper Mario's identity as a character. With each release Paper Mario has shown only more abilities added to his repetoire. Sakurai would have to be extraordinarily ignorant to make him a clone. I am sure Intelligent Systems would help notify Sakurai of Paper Mario's diverse range of abilities if he did decide to make Paper Mario a newcomer for Smash 4. If there is anyone of the Mario 3 that has a large potential to be a clone its Bowser Jr.

*Looks at the StarFox crew, Mario/Luigi/Doc, Falcon/Ganon, Ness/Lucas*

Girl, he's class A clone material, you can build up a case all you want, but he just is. HES MARIO. I mean, I agree with you, but he is definitely clone material.

Toad could be a Mario/Luigi type clone. Think NSMBWii. And if you think Junior could be a clone, then you can't sit here and say Paper MARIO wouldn't be an easy MARIO clone.

 

[Deleted member]

@Shortiecanbrawl: The difference between Paper Mario and Mario is that they have completely different body structure. Being Mario is one of the only major things they have in common. It would take just as much work to make him a clone as it would to make him unique.

As for your examples, they had similar body structure.

 

[---]

Hmm, quick question.

How have the sales of the F-Zero series been?

 

[Deleted member]

Hmm, quick question.

How have the sales of the F-Zero series been?

They are meant for the toilet (well, recent games). Probably why we haven't seen a game in seven years.

 

[ChronoBound]

Hmm, quick question.

How have the sales of the F-Zero series been?

I know in Japan they have been dismal. F-Zero GX sold a little over 100K there. However, GP Legend and Climax bombed hard over there (we are talking under 25K). I don't know how F-Zero, F-Zero X, and Maximum Velocity sold in Japan though. F-Zero probably did very well considering it was a Super Famicom launch title, and Maximum Velocity probably sold well for the same reason (launch title for the GBA).

 

[Berserker.]

Toad could be a Mario/Luigi type clone. Think NSMBWii. And if you think Junior could be a clone, then you can't sit here and say Paper MARIO wouldn't be an easy MARIO clone.

*Looks at Ganondorf*

It's possible

 

[---]

O.K. I was just wondering as it was said in the other thread that the sales we're were similar to Star Fox, Fire Emblem, and Mother, and yet the series hasn't warranted itself another character for some reason.

 

[ChronoBound]

People keep forgetting that the reason why Ganondorf even ended up becoming a clone of Captain Falcon was that Sakurai said he noticed that Ganondorf had the same body structure as Captain Falcon. Sakurai said if it was not for that, Ganondorf would not even have been playable in Melee.

 

[Loxo]

Y'know, it would be interesting to see a 3D SSB game.

 

[Berserker.]

People keep forgetting that the reason why Ganondorf even ended up becoming a clone of Captain Falcon was that Sakurai said he noticed that Ganondorf had the same body structure as Captain Falcon. Sakurai said if it was not for that, Ganondorf would not even have been playable in Melee.

And that's all

Other than that, his moveset wasn't so faithful to his series (And so was his playstyle). Seriously, WIZARD'S KICK? WARLOCK PUNCH?

 

[---]

Looking at the old stage concepts they had back then and now I must say I'm really proud to have thought up an actual FE location based stage.


Also I found the origin of the Slime+Chocobo idea.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And that's all

Other than that, his moveset wasn't so faithful to his series (And so was his playstyle). Seriously, WIZARD'S KICK? WARLOCK PUNCH?

But it wasn't unrealistic to the character at all. Keep in mind that Ganondorf uses the Triforce of POWER. Powerful moves make sense. His moveset was mostly based around strength, something he's well known for. While I was annoyed he was still a clone in Brawl, there could've been way worse choices.

For example, let's say they added MegaMan, making him a near identical version of Samus. What's the difference here? They share nothing but a regular blaster in common.

Now, at first, you might say Falcon and Ganondorf don't share anything in common. But they do. They're both muscle warriors with extreme strength. Likewise, Wizard's Foot and Warlock Punch were clearly powered by magic itself. So he indeed did incorporate magic into his moveset, just not the traditional way of projectile spells. Buffs are magic too, after all.

Don't get me wrong, I would've rather he not be a clone, but it wasn't as bad as people are making it. Plus, he was a pretty decent character in Melee anyway. Mid Tier isn't too bad for a clone.

Keep in mind I'm not defending the idea of clones, I'm just saying that people are complaining too much on this one. Lucas having almost the exact special moves as Ness bothered me more than any other ones, honestly.

As for Paper Mario, he has more than enough moves to not be a clone, but I won't lie: If he were in, the chances of him being a clone since he IS Mario is fairly high.

 

[Berserker.]

But it wasn't unrealistic to the character at all. Keep in mind that Ganondorf uses the Triforce of POWER. Powerful moves make sense. His moveset was mostly based around strength, something he's well known for. While I was annoyed he was still a clone in Brawl, there could've been way worse choices.

For example, let's say they added MegaMan, making him a near identical version of Samus. What's the difference here? They share nothing but a regular blaster in common.

Now, at first, you might say Falcon and Ganondorf don't share anything in common. But they do. They're both muscle warriors with extreme strength. Likewise, Wizard's Foot and Warlock Punch were clearly powered by magic itself. So he indeed did incorporate magic into his moveset, just not the traditional way of spells. Buffs are magic too, after all.

Don't get me wrong, I would've rather he not be a clone, but it wasn't as bad as people are making it. Plus, he was a pretty decent character in Melee anyway. Mid Tier isn't too bad for a clone.

Keep in mind I'm not defending the idea of clones, I'm just saying that people are complaining too much on this one. Lucas having almost the exact special moves as Ness bothered me more than any other ones, honestly.

Does it have to be exactly the same move but with added magical dark effects?

Could have been something else you know. Either way, semi clones are just plain lazy works showing Sakurai's laziness.

Plus, Ganondorf isn't all brute strength. He was shown using magic too. In fact, I can't recall him using fists against Link other than the other art works of OoT.

 

[Shorts]

Also I found the origin of the Slime+Chocobo idea.

Yeah Toise brought it up before Star did.

But Ganondorf shouldn't be using Warock Punch in Waizrd Kick. He should be swinging his sword, and doing is Ganon stuff. Paper Mario shouldn't be a clone of Mario, he should be using his hammer, and having his partners helping him, but that's not how it's going to be. I can't see how you can think he doesn't run a major risk of being a clone? I can tell you right now, with confidence that NO ONE should have been a clone in Smash, maybe besides Doctor Mario, and Pichu. The only reason I let Pichu slide is because Pichu is pretty much Pikachu...everything Pichu knows Pika knows more of. Although you could definitely make a non clone Pichu. Anyways, the point is, ALSMOST NO ONE should have been a clone. Lucas and and Toon Link being clones? You kidding me? That should have never happened. But it did. Paper Mario, Junior, and even Krystal run the risk of being clones, when we all know they shouldn't be.

I mean, if you don't mind the character being a clone, then it doesn't matter, but you should just realize and accept that possibility. Goodness knows I never want to see Krystal use a purple lazer, and some sort of Psychic version of Fox's UpB. But it could happen....oh yes. It could happen. Although I think she has the best chance out of her, Falco, and Wolf of not being clones.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Does it have to be exactly the same move but with added magical dark effects?

Could have been something else you know. Either way, semi clones are just plain lazy works showing Sakurai's laziness.

Plus, Ganondorf isn't all brute strength. He was shown using magic too. In fact, I can't recall him using fists against Link other than the other art works of OoT.

I didn't say it should be. I already said he should've been different. But he wasn't bad because of being a clone. He was terrible in Brawl due to having a glitch in one of his moves, being super slow, have little reach, etc. Being a clone had nothing to do with it.

And I disagree with it being lazy by design. They had only so much time to add more characters. Ganondorf has always been a huge man known for having great power. You think owning a huge sword he carries with one hand meant nothing? He'd have to be pretty strong to easily do that. You can argue that in Brawl, but certainly not in Melee. There was no reason for Ganondorf to be similar to Falcon in Brawl only. Research shows he worked his butt off during Melee. 20 hours a day of pure work. Ganondorf was far from being added in out of laziness.

Also, being a clone isn't lazy in general. You only have a matter of so much time. Thus, if you really want to please the fanbase, you want more memorable characters. People wanted the characters, not all unique movesets. That's what sold it. The characters. Please name one Fighting Game that has absolutely no clones whatsoever, whether NPC Fights or PC Fights.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Hehe, I like this thread right now, even if I'm not at my full potential when it comes to debating due to the lack of "real news", I feel it would be better if some actual stuff came out for Smash 4, Y'know.

 

[majora_787]

I'm just going to say this;

After being in Make Your Move a little, I think the Wii U opens plenty of doors for interesting character mechanics. Hopefully SSB4 goes for something new and interesting like that?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yes, yes it should.

 

[OmegaXXII]

*Looks at Ganondorf*

It's possible

Hehe, Ganon became a clone of Falcon cuz be had similar body structure like Falcon, that's the ONLY reason ganon got in and considered by Sakurai lol..

 

[Berserker.]

I didn't say it should be. I already said he should've been different. But he wasn't bad because of being a clone. He was terrible in Brawl due to having a glitch in one of his moves, being super slow, have little reach, etc. Being a clone had nothing to do with it.

I don't recall complaining about why Ganondorf was so bad in brawl because he was a clone.

And I disagree with it being lazy by design. They had only so much time to add more characters. Ganondorf has always been a huge man known for having great power. You think owning a huge sword he carries with one hand meant nothing? He'd have to be pretty strong to easily do that. You can argue that in Brawl, but certainly not in Melee. There was no reason for Ganondorf to be similar to Falcon in Brawl only. Research shows he worked his butt off during Melee. 20 hours a day of pure work. Ganondorf was far from being added in out of laziness.

Wait.... This was about melee? I was talking about brawl.

Also, being a clone isn't lazy in general. You only have a matter of so much time. Thus, if you really want to please the fanbase, you want more memorable characters. People wanted the characters, not all unique movesets. That's what sold it. The characters. Please name one Fighting Game that has absolutely no clones whatsoever, whether NPC Fights or PC Fights.

Not unique but at least faithful movesets. Faithful and unique are two different things. Not the ones recycled from other characters at least.

Replies are in blue

I'm fine with his normals (Not his U-tilt) but his specials aren't good.

Hehe, Ganon became a clone of Falcon cuz be had similar body structure like Falcon, that's the ONLY reason ganon got in and considered by Sakurai lol..

Lol

Edit: What Shortie said. He shouldn't be a clone