New Smash Bros for WiiU

[OmegaXXII]

So now people are calling Goroh a Takamaru clone?

Might as well have Black Shadow then. <_<

 

[Oasis_S]

As I've said in the past, you, or Sakurai for that matter, shouldn't put too much faith in fanbase size. When it comes right down to it, it matters mostly on how unique a character can be (and in the past, that hasn't been a problem save for some characters).

I'd say popularity is still pretty important. I'm guessing it'd be something like popularity being whats gets a character under consideration, while how unique they are is what determines if they should be playable.

Sounds like you're saying Sakurai shouldn't do that, but it seems pretty sound to me.

 

[ChronoBound]

Here is specifically where Sakurai mentions Pit being popular worldwide:

I was well aware that Pit was a popular character in both America and Japan. I tried as best I could to design this version of him in a way that reflected current tastes, so I'm happy to see him so well received.

http://wii.ign.com/articles/710/710752p1.html

 

[Big-Cat]

I'd say popularity is still pretty important. I'm guessing it'd be something like popularity being whats gets a character under consideration, while how unique they are is what determines if they should be playable.

Sounds like you're saying Sakurai shouldn't do that, but it seems pretty sound to me.

I'm just saying that while looking at popular characters is a good start, don't stick with just those characters. You could find some unique stuff in characters that haven't seen the light of day in years. Kumatora would be a mix-up glass cannon, Takamaru could be a counter-based fighter (note, not denfensive per se), Jill could be this game's Tron Bonne, etc.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I do agree that popularity in the west and Japan are important, not just uniqueness fir that matter, Sakurai isn't stupid to' put someone who will probably be barely requested, remember, a character has to be wanted a played by a majority I believe.

 

[Johnknight1]

I don't see this as hurting Little Mac. Takamaru has practically no fanbase in the West (outside of a few individuals on Smash forums). By the time this game is released in the West, Sakurai will have already determined half of the newcomers for Smash 4, far before Takamaru has the chance of building up an actual fanbase here.

Little Mac is the West's Takamaru. He is a character from a cult hit NES/Famicom title, that was only recently resurrected.

However, on the topic of a pure retro character, I do think there exists for Sakurai a desire to bring back another character from the cold and give him/her a modern makeover like he did with Pit. The only two candidates I can see for this though are Mach Rider and Lip (who is hurt for being Japan-only). Other characters such as Balloon Fighter, Excite Biker, Bubbles, and Urban Champion were already ruled out back during Melee. I am now thinking that its possible that we won't get a "pure" retro character for Smash 4.

Takamaru pleases Japan, and Little Mace pleases the West. We get Mach Rider and/or Lip for Smash 5.

This theory sounds good. Takamaru representing the East, Little Mac representing the West.

However, I am sure Sakurai and the Smash Bros development team will re-consider all the previously dropped ("pure") retro character. Balloon Fighter, Urban Fighter Sukapon Mach Rider, Bubbles, and Lip.

I say Balloon Fighter because it is fun and addictive! I love the multiplayer mode. I've must have played about 200 matches against my brother. Of course, not losing makes it funner!

I won't laugh. Mach Rider is fun, although I do suck at it. XP

So I guess I'm the only one right now who's actually played Nazo no Murasamejou? Interesting...

Also I'm surprised no one has played the FE card in this this Samurai debate.

Mach Rider is an easy game.

Also, how is Nazo no Mursamejou? Is it fun? Is it worth playing? I've considered playing an English patch of it.

And last I checked, none of the Fire Emblem Lords were Samurais.

@ Kuma
I agree on the up B, and I like the change of voice actor for Pit. His new voice is much smoother on the ears.

As for his neutral B, either the game needs to be less campy, or the move just needs to not be such a camper-friendly move.

As for his down B, I think a counter would give it more priority.

Also, fun fact: Sakurai compared Pit's twin blades to Darth Maul, and may have used Darth Maul as an inspiration!

 

[Oasis_S]

I'm just saying that while looking at popular characters is a good start, don't stick with just those characters. You could find some unique stuff in characters that haven't seen the light of day in years. Kumatora would be a mix-up glass cannon, Takamaru could be a counter-based fighter (note, not denfensive per se), Jill could be this game's Tron Bonne, etc.

Ah, yeah. I'm pretty sure that's the whole point of retro characters. He looks back to find interesting potential movesets. FORGOTTEN FIGHTERS WHO OFFER SOMETHING FRESH~


Also Takamaru totally needs to be in Smash to complete the "FDS Four."

 

[OmegaXXII]

Balloon Fighter would be nice yo',but he's probably dead to Sakurai.

 

[---]

Mach Rider is an easy game.

Also, how is Nazo no Mursamejou? Is it fun? Is it worth playing? I've considered playing an English patch of it.

And last I checked, none of the Fire Emblem Lords were Samurais.

@Mach Rider:

It's a good game, it's pretty hard though, at least on an emulator. The best I can do is get to the first boss.

It is a pretty fun game overall though, very fast paced, so it's worth playing. If you have any trouble like Oasis did with the rom, just PM me.

For my FE comment, that's not what I was getting at, but since I don't want to get into another debate I'd rather ignor it.

 

[Johnknight1]

Balloon Fighter would be nice yo',but he's probably dead to Sakurai.

Sakurai isn't the only one making the character decisions. I imagine some of the key and top members of his staff now have a pretty good say, too.

Also, Sakurai is known to ask others for advice on the roster. He asked the Fire Emblem studios for a new Fire Emblem character, and they pitched the idea of Ike... >.>

 

[OmegaXXII]

Sakurai isn't the only one making the character decisions. I imagine some of the key and top members of his staff now have a pretty good say, too.

Also, Sakurai is known to ask others for advice on the roster. He asked the Fire Emblem studios for a new Fire Emblem character, and they pitched the idea of Ike... >.>

Yeah, but do you really think that will be the case for Balloon Fighter? I doubt it, for Chrome or some other character? Probably so.

 

[---]

Well looking at the Dojo I wouldn't be surprised if Balloon Fight came up in his head a few times after Melee.

So if he does go for a retro rep like that I'd prefer him or Sukapon or Mach Rider.

Although how would a moveset for him work? As far as I know all he can do is fly and dive bomb enemies.

 

[ChronoBound]

I am surprised the Balloon Fight fish did not get a trophy in Brawl despite being featured in the Ice Climber stage.

Also, people need to keep in mind that there is more to representation than just characters.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yeah, Sakurai would really need to rethink of a moveset that would actually work which is why I believe he won't even bother with him because of that complication, unless he figured something out in which case I find that he may have lost interest in Balloon Fighter altogether.

Also, how is it that Mach Rider is plausible for a retro shot now? Just because people like him here on the boards doesn't mean he's popular elsewhere?

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, but do you really think that will be the case for Balloon Fighter? I doubt it, for Chrome or some other character? Probably so.

Sakurai probably didn't have time to put Balloon Fighter in Melee. Remember, Melee was super rushed, and Sakurai worked 20 hour days.

On top of that, Sakurai had a smaller staff with whom he had more control of.

Now Sakurai is trusting his staff more. He said his staff will have a major impact on the balancing of the game, and the Smash Bros staff will probably give Sakurai help in the character selection.

I bet they're gonna lurk this topic...

 

[OmegaXXII]

But..he didn't get in Brawl, nor did he ever get a trophy or cameo appearance for that matter. <_<

 

[ChronoBound]

By far the most popular "retro" character is Little Mac. The only other retro character that I have seen have a level of support that Little Mac is enjoying was Pit. There are a few people that want Lip, Takamaru, and Mach Rider, however, there support is pretty much non-existant outside of Smash forums. Punch-Out NES is consistently among the Top 20 most sold Virtual Console titles each week. It probably has sold more than any other Nintendo developed Virtual Console NES game without Mario, Donkey Kong, or Zelda in the title.

Toad is also much less popular (as a newcomer for Smash 4) outside of SmashBoards.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Whoa, Toad isn't all that popular elsewhere? What about Japan though?if so, then Bowser Jr. probably has a bigger fanbase then?

 

[Johnknight1]

Yeah, but do you really think that will be the case for Balloon Fighter? I doubt it, for Chrome or some other character? Probably so.

In Melee Sakurai was rushed. I think that now that there is so much more time for Sakurai to develop ideas. Sakurai ran into that issue with Ridley in Brawl. I am pretty sure the Smash Bros development team has more than enough ideas for such characters.

Also, I agree with Little Mac being more popular than any other retro character in the West. This is due to his new recent game, the popularity of Punch-Out, his assist trophy appearance in Brawl (he may have been the best assist trophy), and just the overall awesomeness that he gives off. I mean, he's like Rocky Balboa meets... Rocky Marciano meets... some small little guy!

 

[---]

Toad??

Well I could care less about him, I do think he has plenty of popularity. In an old Nintendo Power when they did a Melee article in 2006 they asked people (I believe in a poll) about who they'd like to see in the announced next Gen Smash (Brawl).

Pit, Wario, Toad and Geno were the characters who were specifically mentioned.

 

[ChronoBound]

Whoa, Toad isn't all that popular elsewhere? What about Japan though?if so, then Bowser Jr. probably has a bigger fanbase then?

I think Toad's support is only going to increase with time. Bowser Jr.'s support is going to stagnate or slightly decrease. There are quite a few intelligent and ambitious posters that I see backing Toad.

It really comes down to a lot of the Mario fans that came into the franchise during the GameCube days thinking of Toad in a much lesser light than other generational Mario fans. Currently, these fans are the ones that dominate other video game forums.

However, as even more younger fans come into the series, Toad will enjoy a surge of support due to Toad's increasing relevancy among newer Mario titles, and also being supported by senior fans of the Mario franchise (those who had their start with the series since the NES days).

Toad will have much more support for Smash 4 than he did for Melee or Brawl.

I still think Bowser Jr.'s best attribute for inclusion is him easily being made into a luigified-clone of Bowser, and would probably be among the last characters added to the roster (like Toon Link and Wolf). Bowser Jr. fans though vehemently disagree with this assessment though.

 

[Drclaw411]

Has anyone even looked at those links in the backroom?

Read this. #171-180

can somebody please link me to the ssb4 back room?

 

[OmegaXXII]

Hehe, Bowser Jr. being a Bowser clone? Yeah, fans might not like it at all, but Sakurai probably wouldn't think twice to do so despite what fans think of him.

Toad definetly has a good solid chance to be in, all because of relevancy and of course him being iconic and recognizable amongst older fans as well.

 

[---]

Meh, I could care less about Mario reps. As long as we have Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Yoshi I'm set.

Still according to Toise the Japanese aren't even interested in another Mario rep (more interested in F-Zero), so for now the Mario rep all comes down to whoever is the most popular in the west.

@Dr.Claw411: You'll have to talk to SSBF about the Backroom.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I still think there's a possibility of us getting 2 Mario reps instead of just one...

 

[augustoflores]

few pages back there was talk of Samurai Goroh being a clone of Takamaru... what the hell?

sorry for bringing this up after the takamaru talk died down but, really... Takamaru is a nimble edge samurai while Goroh is a buff warrior samurai. these characteristics of theirs would be implemented into their moves and they will be very different much like Marth to Ike. the only way i see them being similar in combat would be if one of them were introduced late in development... although i highly doubt that.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Well, if it's F-Zero, then I hope it's either Samurai Goroh who is very likely or Black Shadow (my personal pick)

I Am also guessing that if a new F-Zero comes out for Wii-U there chances double if they happen to make an appearance, at least Black Shadows would.

 

[Oasis_S]

I still think there's a possibility of us getting 2 Mario reps instead of just one...

Zero is fine too.

 

[Metal Overlord]

You no like Toad and Bowser Jr. do you Oasis.

 

[ChronoBound]

The thing about the Mario series this time around is that its looking to being as chaotic as the Fire Emblem field was pre-Brawl. You have Toad, Bowser Jr., and Paper Mario all have a lot of support. There are also plenty of people who also want Waluigi, and of course the Geno brigade will probably resurrect itself once Smash 4 is formally unveiled. There is no consensus on who the newcomer for Mario should be despite there being a lot of support for one.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I like that suggestion hehe, means other characters like DHD could get in instead.

 

[augustoflores]

i'm fine with zero... how about a Bowser Jr. Assist Trophy, huh!?

Bowser Jr. comes out of his trophy container, he draws up an enemy currently on the field at random. The Shadow character will attack that enemy for a limited time with a level 5 CPU (or what ever level you choose in the assist trophy data section).

 

[Oasis_S]

You no like Toad do you Oasis.

Usually I just play-up my TOAD HATE for Broserker.

My only complaint with him is that he'll probably be a pretty boring addition, so I would prefer Bowser Jr. with his paintbrush. I disagree with ChronoBound that he would be a Bowser clone. If we do not see Bowser Jr., it will be BECAUSE Sakurai thought he would be a Bowser clone. (Among other things, lol)

Still, since Toad isn't a koopa or a plumber (made of paper), he works into the DIVERSITY well enough.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Usually I just play-up my TOAD HATE for Broserker.

My only complaint with him is that he'll probably be a pretty boring addition, so I would prefer Bowser Jr. with his paintbrush. I disagree with ChronoBound that he would be a Bowser clone. If we do not see Bowser Jr., it will be BECAUSE Sakurai thought he would be a Bowser clone.

Still, since Toad isn't a koopa or a plumber (made of paper), he works into the DIVERSITY well enough.

What about Waluigi?

I'm not really crazy about a new Mario rep either. It's all about that Donkey Kong, and on that note, that K. Rool and Dixie.

 

[Oasis_S]

What about Waluigi?

ARE YOU BLIND. DON'T YOU SEE THOSE OVERALLS. TOTAL PLUMBER ATTIRE.

Caps.

 

[Lokee]

Hey guys I've been lurking for a while and off topic, but I wanted people to be more aware of this guy from a game titled Rolling Western. Coming to the 3DS E-shop I think.

Apparently, the game was shown at E3 but I recently heard about it during Nintendo's morning Conference. I just think he'd be a cool character to add to Smash Bros. to at least some degree. Here is some footage of his game. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E1QxU19CFTE

{Edit: I think his name is JIRO}

 

[Opelucid]

We already know about him...

 

[OmegaXXII]

Jiro looks cool.

 

[Deleted member]

@ChronoBound: The Pokemon scene will also get very chaotic, especially if we get a 3rd gen remake into the mix soon. As for the Mario scene, I support Toad and Paper Mario, but I just want a 5th rep. Pokemon is where my big concern for the roster lies.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Toad is popular and know which is tight!