New Smash Bros for WiiU

[Claire Diviner]

Well, if the flames have died down, why don't we get this back on topic, shall we?

 

[Shorts]

Well, if the flames have died down, why don't we get this back on topic, shall we?

...Who wants trophies made from scratch like Melee's? (:

Good teamwork Oasis STARCATS 4 lyfe.

 

[Oasis_S]

I want to see an HD Sukapon redesign trophy.

Yehs.

...Though I'd rather he be an unlockable Assist Trophy. MAYBE BOTH.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Wow, I'm just gonna drop it and go on...

Let's just pick something else to discuss, it's getting way to salty in here.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Honestly, I had that same thought for the past year now. I mean, there's nothing wrong with Brawl's trophies, but the character/object models are pretty much ripped from their own games and made into trophies. Personally, trophies made from scratch would be better. I could be wrong, but it may also diversify the trophies we do get.

Personally, if they have any Crystalis trophies, I would probably shed tears of amazement.

 

[OmegaXXII]

I like the trophy idea hex came up with since he incorporated them into adventure mode, it seemed like a good idea.

Crystalis? Heh, what's that?

 

[Claire Diviner]

I like the trophy idea hex came up with since he incorporated them into adventure mode, it seemed like a good idea.

I'm not familiar with his idea, and am too lazy to scroll back through the thread, so if I may ask, what was the idea?

 

[Shorts]

I want to see an HD Sukapon redesign trophy.

Yehs.

...Though I'd rather he be an unlockable Assist Trophy. MAYBE BOTH.

Regaurdless, when I saw "Gamecube" Daisy, Wario, Gooey, and Rick I was like....o:

I had never seen them look soo. . . detailed before. Trophies used to be one of the COOLEST things about SSB, Brawl took that away. I can't wait to see HD Daisy, Midna, and Krystal! (OF COURSE that is if she doesn't SOMEHOW skid by into the playable roster)

Actually, I have another question to go with this one. Would you care if your character got in as a Semi clone? Do you know how pissed I would be to see Ridleyzard and Krystalco? What's next? Pigmoshi!?

PISSED.

I could be wrong, but it may also diversify the trophies we do get.

You aren't. I feel like this gives equal grounds for ANYONE Sakurai pleases to become a trophy, not just rips. I mean, if he has to make them from scratch, why not pick who he wants right?

 

[OmegaXXII]

I'm not familiar with his idea, and am too lazy to scroll back through the thread, so if I may ask, what was the idea?

Oh, he made a blog about it, I'll fetch it up.

But yeah, if trophies were made from scratch it would make them more presentable to actually make them look good.

Brb.

 

[Claire Diviner]

Crystalis? Heh, what's that?

Crystalis is an RPG originally owned by SNK for the NES before being bought by Nintendo and remade for the GBC. Although Nintendo butchered (that's me being nice, by the way) the story in the GBC port, it's the NES version that remains a great classic.

Regaurdless, when I saw "Gamecube" Daisy, Wario, Gooey, and Rick I was like....o:

I had never seen them look soo. . . detailed before. Trophies used to be one of the COOLEST things about SSB, Brawl took that away. I can't wait to see HD Daisy, Midna, and Krystal! (OF COURSE that is if she doesn't SOMEHOW skid by into the playable roster)

Actually, I have another question to go with this one. Would you care if your character got in as a Semi clone? Do you know how pissed I would be to see Ridleyzard and Krystalco? What's next? Pigmoshi!?

PISSED.

Semi-clones I can deal with, but complete clones are a no no. Also, I doubt they'd make Ridley into a Charizard clone, seeing as Ridley has too many unique options open for Nintendo to really mess him up like that. As for Krystal, I'm sure they can think of something that would differentiate her from all space animals.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Crystalis is an RPG originally owned by SNK for the NES before being bought by Nintendo and remade for the GBC. Although Nintendo butchered (that's me being nice, by the way) the story in the GBC port, it's the NES version that remains a great classic.

Well there is always a small chance it could happen right?

Here is a storymode idea by hex:







So I was playing Subspace Emissary today with one of my co-workers, and being able to play through it a second time made me realize how much of a pile of nonsense it is. To start with, the level design is horrendous. But the thing that bothers me the most about it was the enemies and the plot. I touched on this in one of my other threads, but I think the plot aspect of Smash Bros is in dire need of simplification. So I got to thinking on the drive home...
Think back to SSB64. While the game's extremely light on story, it wasn't nonexistent. The opening cutscene outlined the basic premise: Master hand, the representative of a child's creative spirit, pulls out a few dolls and arranges a few objects on his desk. 1, 2, 3, SNAP! Suddenly, the desk becomes an arena, and the dolls come to life; we are now seeing the world through the imagination of the child, objectified in Master Hand.



As the players progress through the 1-player mode they eventually reach the "polygon team." This is essentially the objectification of the child saying "Sure, Mario can defeat anybody, but can he defeat.... MARIO!??!?" We've all played with our toys and came up with the same matchup in our playtime.Eventually, the character defeats Master Hand himself. What does this represent? It represents the character becoming something more than a figment of the imagination; in essence, the character has realized his own legacy, which transcends imagination entirely, and becomes part of the real world.
In my opinion, this premise is far more compelling than Subspace emissary, because it has a meaning deeper than a story about trophies that come to life to defeat some Tabuu who wants to engulf the world in subspace. If offers insight into the very nature of what it means to be a character with a legacy, which is precisely what Nintendo's all-stars are.

I think Smash needs to return to this general premise. Back to the basics of what makes the game so amazing in the first place. Brawl was a celebration of Smash Bros gameplay, but I think SSB4 ought to be a celebration of the very nature of Smash Bros as an idea. My own proposal is to not try to create a typical antagonist that is behind all of the conflict, where all of the other villains are just pawns (Tabuu -_-). I think they should simply return to Master Hand, who is just as much a protagonist as he is an antagonist.

The story should be about Master Hand, or the creative spirit, simply doing what he does best: playtime. Like a child with a collection of figurines, he takes all of the heroes and pits them against all of the villains. He imagines the unique and varied worlds of Nintendo colliding. He imagines the characters running through their own worlds and the worlds of their newfound allies to help people they've never helped before. There would be segments where you play as heroes against the villains, and villains against the heroes, because a child plays both parts in his mind. In that sense, we are Master Hand, playing with the characters. Then at the end, the paradigm shifts: we become the character, fighting against Master Hand to claim our status as more than a hero in a child's fairy tale: to become a legacy. And perhaps Crazy Hand can reprise his role as the one who comes along if you play exceedingly well up to the end: the sign that you went above and beyond expectations leading up to the final battle.

* Now I'm wary of going further into specifics of story ideas, but this came up during the discussion. Perhaps to move beyond a simple revival of the original SSB's story, we could go beyond the metaphor of the Child's imagination and have a deeper evil that is the child's fears? Before fighting Master and/or Crazy Hand, a penultimate boss could be the child's fears, objectified in some new, original character. This would symbol the child overcoming his own fears. Some people would be content with a pure revival of the original premise, but just as an unexpected element, there's a story suggestion for you. Personally, I would keep Master Hand as the final final boss, but that's my own personal taste.

So that explains the premise. How does this apply practically to gameplay? Well, my proposal is to make the adventure mode two-fold: Hero story and Villain story, with a united story at the end as the characters strive together to obtain "legacy status." * However, I'm aware of the fact that the playable heroes will likely far outnumber playable villains, so in that case, the adventure mode can just be one big story, where every now and then, you play using the villain characters, seeing the story from their perspective.

All of the adventure stages should be famous levels or places from the franchises represented in the game. No subspace, no ambiguous castles, space stations, bases, or jungles. Adventures through the actual different worlds of Nintendo, with perhaps some optional levels from third party games. No Primids, Feyesh, Floows, or Jyks. Just famous enemies from the franchises. The stage premises themselves should simply relive story moments from the various games that have an eternal place in our hearts.

* Perhaps to really highlight the premise as the game being a figment of the imagination, the Game Over screen could be the player's character trophy/figurine/doll falling onto what starts as a collection of stage assets from the various levels, but then it fades into a table with some household items, as it awaits the player's choice to Continue or Quit. It would be a great shoutout to the original Intro scene.

Some example level premises (nothing too specific):
Link Slicing up Goombas on the way to a battle against Bowser
Bowser beating up against cowering soldiers on the way to Hyrule Castle to kidnap Princess Zelda
Zelda breaking out of Bowser Castle because she's not as helpless as Peach
Captain Falcon beating up Metroids to get off of a soon-to-explode planet
Mario punching Octoroks out of the park on the way to the Ganon's Tower
Helping Team Star Fox defend the great fox from enemy ships
Mario Collecting Vegetables on a snowy mountain climb to get to the Pteradactyl that will take you to the next level
Kirby defeating wild or trained pokemon
Zelgius fighting through soldiers and archers to challenge Marth.
Running around, shrunken by some evil plot of Bowser, trying to survive against Bulborbs and Armored Cannon Beetles.
These are just some non-specific, simple premises that prove that there is no need for some off-the-wall Subspace Emissary to unite the characters under a single plot. Just start throwing villains after heroes they've never tried to fight before, and vice versa. It's all child's play.

Now I mentioned roster in the Blog Title. However, I'm not going to actually list characters. Instead, I'm going to propose a general idea:

Include more villains from each franchise! This is necessary for this "Hero/Villain" mode to work. Now some franchises have no real villain (Ice Climbers, for instance), but as state above, those characters can still play a role in the Hero's story as a means to further progress toward whatever villain there is. And those villains can fight against those heroes.

THAT is what Smash Bros is all about. The simple joy of loving Nintendo franchises and wanting to pit them against each other. The story premise is simple, yet has a deeper layer of meaning that can truly be appreciated by the kids who are now grown up and see life for all of its complications, yet look back on the simplicity of childhood.

 

[Shorts]

Well Ridlezard is sort of far-fetched, but I can honestly see the perfectly unique Krystal becoming a Fox clone. Which is unfortunate. She has more to work with than Fox himself, considering (almost) everything Fox has, she has AND THEN SOME. Ridley wouldn't be a clone, but I was just asking if you would be okay with seeing your favorite character implemented in such an irreversibly unfortunate way. Although if Krystal replaced Wolf, and then showed up in the next SF installment, it would basically seal her in the Smash cast, unless for some reason the community never warms up to her. Which I don't think would happen.

 

[Claire Diviner]

@King: Well, I can honestly say that Hex's proposal definitely hits the nail on the head. Everything he said is something that would really be gold. Although, a simple link to the source would've sufficed, unless there's some forum rule against it or something.

@Shortie: Sad thing is that you're most likely right about Krystal. Unless they try to base her moves off of what she has in Star Fox Adventures. But I never played the game, so I wouldn't know what she has to offer from that game... if anything.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Nah, I just had it saved in word, I don't actually know where it is anymore. <___>

But yeah, a better story mode with less generic environments is all that would and should happen, I mean, this is Smash we are talking about, it's suppose to have universes colliding with one another, just like Melee for example.

 

[Oasis_S]

Could we GROUP series by worlds? Obviously Mario/Yoshi/Wario/DK all fit in the same world. Then Star Fox/Kirby/Metroid actually go together since they're in SPACE. Maybe F-Zero too.

...Things get a bit COMPLEX from there though.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

F-Zero is an alternate dimension to Star Fox

Since both have James McCloud, but F-Zero's is human.

Maybe group them by "Planet"

 

[OmegaXXII]

Hmm...I guess they could some sorts of portal that could transport you through worlds? Like a main Smash area where it has all these gates that would teleport you though different worlds, I dunno, just a thought.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

Kirby's warpstar can travel between worlds, samus' ship can travel between worlds, fox's great fox, mario's ...floating head ship..., etc.

 

[Oasis_S]

I prefer thinking with portals.

I like to imagine Ridley releasing a bunch of Metroid through a portal into, I dunno, Smashville. Then you have to run around punching them off villagers' heads. Maybe he does that so he can distract you while he escapes?!

 

[ChronoBound]

Pit was a popular choice, I can't think of very many retros with that going for them

Yes. I think many people overlook this. Pit had quite a few supporters even back during the pre-Melee days. He was definitely by far the most requested retro character after Melee was released.

As to other retros that are popular choices, I think no one will do what Pit did. Sakurai mentioned that Pit was requested by both Japanese and Western Smash fans. Little Mac is only popularly requested by Western Smash fans, and Takamaru is only popularly requested by Japanese Smash fans.

Its for this reason, I can possibly see Sakurai seeking a "compromise" retro characters. I have a feeling he will pick someone whom he can make into a very interesting and appealing character.

I am definitely positive though that Sakurai's team will have nothing to show about Smash 4 at E3 2012. The only way I can expect us seeing something is if Nintendo commissions Sakurai to have a "movie" (like the Melee intro) of some of the newcomers in the game. However, I am not sure how likely this is. At the very least I expect them to say "something" about Smash 4 at E3 2012, especially considering that it was the only title that was officially announced for the Wii U at E3 2011.

If development for Smash 4 had begun this month like it was originally intended, then we would have probably would have had a trailer showing the game engine proper.

Also, what makes speculation for Smash 4 particularly difficult is that there are basically no shoe-ins. Even popularly requested newcomers such as Ridley, K. Rool, Mega Man, and Little Mac would have reasons to be excluded (albeit stupid ones). In terms of Nintendo characters, I think Smash 4 will scrape the bottom of the barrel in terms of characters with any importance.

We currently have very little idea on what to expect in regards to Smash 4. Heck, we do not even know if third-party characters will return. I personally think it was foolish to announce Smash 4 when it was not even in development. Now they will HAVE TO show SOMETHING at E3 2012 because many people will be expecting something. They should have simply saved the announcement that it was being made at E3 2012.

Also, aside from Ridley, K. Rool, and Dixie Kong every other Nintendo character that is not currently playable in Smash Bros. (aside from guys from the Mario series and Melee's cut characters) are obscure compared to most of Melee's and Brawl's newcomers. I think we may have already hit the bottom of the barrel with Brawl (in terms of notable Nintendo characters). Pretty much Sakurai will have to look toward the more popular minor Nintendo series for some newcomers. Palutena and Medusa might become notable if Kid Icarus Uprising is a huge success critically and commerciailly.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

I'll probably get uprising, but it doesn't look very promising.

It's like the creator of it has never even played Kid Icarus before

 

[OmegaXXII]

I'll probably get uprising, but it doesn't look very promising.

It's like the creator of it has never even played Kid Icarus before

Uprising ain't promising? Heh, that's a good one.

Wow, it's kinda of ironic that the creator never played a Kid Icarus title??

 

[Oasis_S]

I'll probably get uprising, but it doesn't look very promising.

It's like the creator of it has never even played Kid Icarus before

Well, he played Star Fox.

Basically the same thing right?

Right?

@ChronoBound: Why would he have to make a compromise between Mac and Tak? Why not both? I've always felt those two WERE a compromise. One pleases the West, the other Japan. We've been getting two retro characters anyway since Melee. Seems like it would make sense?

Oh... I just realized Luigi's Side Special is probably a reference to that chargable jump from SMB2.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Whoa, Star Fox as well?

Yeah, like Chrono mentioned, if SSB4 development has started like it was meant to then it should be enough time for them to give us a trailer, possibly at E3 2012.

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

He should make up his own character. A boxing samurai

Littlemaru

 

[Oasis_S]

He keeps his boxing gloves tied to his waist like a sheath. He also keeps his hands in them at all times. So he kind of waddles around waiting for someone to make fun of him. Then he draws them out slowly.

"My strikes are like those of a blade!"


@Omega: Exclamation! Repeat previous poster's subject with no context or adding comments! Agree with large post!

 

[Thino]

at E3 2012 , we'll prolly get at least a trailer and maybe some newcomers

 

[OmegaXXII]

Yup^^

That what I'm expecting as well, perhaps a newcomer reveal like a 3rd party character as well.

 

[Metal Overlord]

I really do get pissed off when people assume the whole Sonic fanbase is derpy just because the newer generation is derpy.

It's like when people assume YT is filled with nothing but VEVO music videos and RayWilliamJohnson/Shane Dawson, or when people say hip-hop is dead because of the mainstream crap like Rick Ross.

Search around and you'll find plenty of intelligible Sonic fans, such as myself.

How can you even dislike a character's inclusion because of their fanbases, anyway?

Trivial reasoning, if you ask me. You should dislike their inclusion because you dislike the character.

Not because of their... gasp... fanboys!

As if Sonic is the only VG franchise with a ****ty batch of fanboys.

/rant

Now excuse me while I go listen to the kickass City Escape Classic Remix in Generations.

 

[Oasis_S]

Typical DBZ fan.

Typical.

 

[Aurane]

I really do get pissed off when people assume the whole Sonic fanbase is derpy just because the newer generation is derpy.

It's like when people assume YT is filled with nothing but VEVO music videos and RayWilliamJohnson/Shane Dawson, or when people say hip-hop is dead because of the mainstream crap like Rick Ross.

Search around and you'll find plenty of intelligible Sonic fans, such as myself.

How can you even dislike a character's inclusion because of their fanbases, anyway?

Trivial reasoning, if you ask me. You should dislike their inclusion because you dislike the character.

Not because of their... gasp... fanboys!

As if Sonic is the only VG franchise with a ****ty batch of fanboys.

/rant

Now excuse me while I go listen to the kickass City Escape Classic Remix in Generations.

Atta Boy! Listen to the good stuff ^^

 

[Metal Overlord]

Mach Rider fanboys.

Can't live with or without them.

Come to think of it, maybe I can't really talk.

I reference DB way more than Oasis references Mach Rider.

 

[OmegaXXII]

Sonic and DBZ da best, hence why they both have Super Saiyan Goku and Super Sonic!!

 

[Aurane]

So does a Shiny Lucario when it uses Aura Storm T_T

 

[OmegaXXII]

Lol..you know what I always tell my bro? That Lucario resembles Piccolo's voice lol...

DBZ Smash Cast..

Sonic - Goku
Fox - Vegeta (scouter)
Lucario - Piccolo
Mewtwo - Frieza
Donkey Kong - Saiyan Monkey.

 

[Oasis_S]

Mach Rider fanboys.

Can't live with or without them.

Come to think of it, maybe I can't really talk.

I reference DB way more than Oasis references Mach Rider.

Like Broly, his power is Mach-simum.

No... I used that one already.

I'M SORRY, MACH RIDER.

 

[OmegaXXII]

So does a Shiny Lucario when it uses Aura Storm T_T

Haha, that look epic indeed, but Somic resembles it more for it being yellow and also being a hero lol...

 

[Metal Overlord]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Omega, anyone but Frieza lol

Mewtwo= Cooler or Perfect Cell ("TIME TO DIEEEEEEEEEEEEE")
Armored Mewtwo= Meta Cooler or Super Perfect Cell
Ganondorf= Dabura
Meta Knight= Supreme Kai
Kirby= Majin Buu
Snake= Hercule/Mr. Satan
Samus= 18

Toon Link= Goten?

Mach Rider is way more awesomesauce than Broly IMO lol Oasis

 

[Aurane]

Haha, that look epic indeed, but Somic resembles it more for it being yellow and also being a hero lol...

OoO! Hold on, king! You haven't watched his movie, have you? He saves the entire world from certain destruction by sacrificing himself.
MIND CRUSH!

 

[OmegaXXII]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Omega, anyone but Frieza lol

Mewtwo= Cooler
Armored Mewtwo= Meta Cooler
Ganondorf= Dabura
Meta Knight= Supreme Kai
Kirby= Majin Buu
Snake= Hercule/Mr. Satan

Toon Link= Goten?

Mach Rider is way more awesomesauce than Broly IMO lol Oasis

Haha, nice list, totally forgot about Cooler.

Here's more...

Falco - Bardock
Gohan - Shadow
Future Trunks - Ike/Chrome/Roy

@sage- what movie lol?