Darth Waffles
Smash Lord
=P
<3 infzy
<3 infzy
-
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New Method of Momentum Canceling
- Thread starter GwJ
- Start date
Commander_Beef
Smash Champion
It's actually very hard to master a wavebounced neutral B (for me anyways). All the other special attacks are easier to wavebounce.
We have to slightly tap the control stick the other way right?
GwJ
Smash Hero
wavebouncing neutral B's are the easiest IMO. You press B then immediately TAP the analog stick in the opposite direction.
infomon
Smash Scientist
what's this about wavebouncing? ROB's wavebouncing does NOT help for momentum-cancelling.... just sayin'.
I'm not even sure what the term "wavebouncing" means. There are B-reversals (start a B-move and quickly tap the control stick backwards after it starts), and then there are turnaround-B's (tap backwards, then quickly do a neutral-B (easy way).... OR be sliiightly tilting the control stick backwards as you input a neutral-B), and then there's just doing a side-B in the opposite direction from where you're travelling (which you can combine with a b-reversal).
I think "wavebouncing" is what we used to call any of the above, if it causes a noticeable shift in one's velocity when performed... and it may or may not involve the help b-sticking (which as far as I know is irrelevant). I think I have my terms correct..... but someone correct me if I'm wrong?
(altho this is all off-topic??)
I'm pretty well convinced that except maybe in extremely special circumstances, "wavebouncing" can only harm your chances of survival, if used during knockback.
I'm not even sure what the term "wavebouncing" means. There are B-reversals (start a B-move and quickly tap the control stick backwards after it starts), and then there are turnaround-B's (tap backwards, then quickly do a neutral-B (easy way).... OR be sliiightly tilting the control stick backwards as you input a neutral-B), and then there's just doing a side-B in the opposite direction from where you're travelling (which you can combine with a b-reversal).
I think "wavebouncing" is what we used to call any of the above, if it causes a noticeable shift in one's velocity when performed... and it may or may not involve the help b-sticking (which as far as I know is irrelevant). I think I have my terms correct..... but someone correct me if I'm wrong?
(altho this is all off-topic??)
I'm pretty well convinced that except maybe in extremely special circumstances, "wavebouncing" can only harm your chances of survival, if used during knockback.
GwJ
Smash Hero
Yea, wavebouncing doesn't help canceling momentum. I'm not sure what got that discussion going.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
Not true. Zelda's wavebounced Nayru's acts as a Momentum stopper like Bucket Braking, but it doesn't work without the wavebounce.
infomon
Smash Scientist
wharrrgarrrrrbl
well whaddya know, he's right.
Although I swear I'd tested this before, like a million times. And yeah, even with Zelda.
I guess iwasdoinitrong lol
yeah, Zelda should wavebounce her neutral-B.
I tested some other chars and did not notice any help from the wavebounce, and sometimes noticed a negative effect from it (I think). *shrug*
infzy is so confused rite nao
well whaddya know, he's right.
Although I swear I'd tested this before, like a million times. And yeah, even with Zelda.
I guess iwasdoinitrong lol
yeah, Zelda should wavebounce her neutral-B.
I tested some other chars and did not notice any help from the wavebounce, and sometimes noticed a negative effect from it (I think). *shrug*
infzy is so confused rite nao
xepherthree
Smash Ace
Thanks for posting this, wanna try this sometime soon. Just never do this on corneria >.>
Silhouette
Smash Lord
What part are you confused about??
Also, in a lot of situations I find that Fair > Up-B > Bair/Dair while rising with the Up-B, is the best momentum cancel, you constantly move upward toward the corner with the Up-B, and the Bair/Dair acts like a bucket break in most situations. The obvious problem being the amount of time it takes to pull this off, I typically end at the verge of the blast zone but live.
Also, in a lot of situations I find that Fair > Up-B > Bair/Dair while rising with the Up-B, is the best momentum cancel, you constantly move upward toward the corner with the Up-B, and the Bair/Dair acts like a bucket break in most situations. The obvious problem being the amount of time it takes to pull this off, I typically end at the verge of the blast zone but live.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
jumping is faster then Up-Bing if you still have your jump (you normally will) and need to reach the corner to cover for lack of DI or what have you.
Silhouette
Smash Lord
The Up-B provides a constant rise and greater total upward lift than jumping, you also get to save your jump for later.
but jumping is still good, and better in some situations.
besides doesn't jumping negate your first momentum cancel? I heard that somewhere, might be false though.
but jumping is still good, and better in some situations.
besides doesn't jumping negate your first momentum cancel? I heard that somewhere, might be false though.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
thats definitely false...or maybe my ROB is just blessed by the gods.
unless your DI is horrible I can't imagine you needing more height then a jump gives...by the time your up-b rises you to above jump height and you actually need to momentum cancel, you're probably dead anyway.
unless your DI is horrible I can't imagine you needing more height then a jump gives...by the time your up-b rises you to above jump height and you actually need to momentum cancel, you're probably dead anyway.
You see, every R.O.B. mainer has he's own way to live longer, and no one says which the best way is... So which method is proven to be best? Or do you need different methods in different situations?
And this confused me too...: http://www.geocities.jp/kuso_dwi_lovers/list.html
infomon
Smash Scientist
Why are you guys trying to move towards the corner? That in and of itself doesn't help anything. You want to DI such that you go towards the corner as much as possible, but say you mess up the DI and are heading horizontally, then adding an increased vertical component to your trajectory by, say, jumping, isn't going to somehow mitigate the horizontal knockback that will push you off the side.
That being said, yes I think ROB's jump helps barely at all to fight horizontal knockback, but does his up-B actually do anything? I dun remember, I wrote a lot of stuff in this thread but that was a year ago and I dun remember anything about it and darth waffles is cool and I don't play vidja gamez anymore so good luck with this character, I remember ROB has the absolutely horribly worst momentum-cancelling options in the game
That being said, yes I think ROB's jump helps barely at all to fight horizontal knockback, but does his up-B actually do anything? I dun remember, I wrote a lot of stuff in this thread but that was a year ago and I dun remember anything about it and darth waffles is cool and I don't play vidja gamez anymore so good luck with this character, I remember ROB has the absolutely horribly worst momentum-cancelling options in the game
Silhouette
Smash Lord
Jumping helps move you toward the corner, which means you have further to go before you die, thus giving more time to momentum cancel or for the knockback to wear off.
I feel like his Up-B does more than his jump
I feel like his Up-B does more than his jump
Darth Waffles
Smash Lord
Off topic: My definition: Wavebouncing is moving in a > motion but facing the SAME direction the entire time. B reversals are moving in a > motion but facing the OPPOSITE direction after the bounce (what ocean made famous with gyro canceling). A “Turn around” B move would be moving in a \ direction but facing the OPPOSITE direction when doing the B move. If you’re falling to the right, the laser would fire to the left.
To do a B reversal, press B and then press the control stick in the opposite direction to the way you’re facing. To wavebounce, you need to do a “turn around” b move and THEN a “B reversal.”
Pretend ROB is falling to the right and facing right (1).
You would press left on the control stick (2)
B (3)
Press right on the control stick (4). It doesn’t have to be hard, but it all has to be done QUICKLY.
What happens: (1) You’re falling right, facing right. (2) You’re falling right, facing left. (3) The B move comes out but you do a B reversal (4), so you’re falling LEFT and facing right again, completing the > motion. When you “B-stick” (set the C stick to specials) you’re doing this with two joysticks instead of one. Instead of hitting left and then right on the control stick, the control stick goes left and the C stick (with specials instead of attacks) goes right.
On topic: I figured I’d post it all here since everyone seems to have a different method. Here’s what works best and how we got there.
And yes, I know that “fastfall” is not an actual word. I’m also going to assume that you know how DI works and are only interested in how ROB should react.
You have to understand that ROB doesn't like to follow the rules of this game, at least when surviving. That being said, his longest lasting move, the side B, helps the most in slowing him down. This is because of the little burst to the side that he gets when the move starts- the part that "hops" a bit on the ground after he rears his arms back.
But doesn’t it take a long time to start up? Yes, and I will talk more about this part later on because it’s important, but for now (you can test and confirm this easily), accept that even if you use a move that comes out FASTER than side-b or finishes EARLIER than side-b, you will still get KO’ed off the side. In other words, the extra few frames it takes for the side-b to make a difference are justified since you would die during those frames anyway.
Here’s where the first part of the article comes into play. It’s not about how fast the move comes out, and it’s NOT always about how fast the move finishes, but how much it helps to save you. This is what side-B, unlike any other move, manages to accomplish (when dealing with horizontal momentum). The problem is, you can't do specials in any direction immediately after getting hit because you're in the stunned, flying back animation, so you want to get out of this animation as quickly as possible (so you can use ROB’s longest-lasting move after that!). To end this animation, you can throw out an aerial or airdodge either 14 frames (airdodge) or 26 frames (aerial) after you get hit at the earliest. Yes, this means that you can start an airdodge earlier than an aerial (see next paragraph) but you'll need to pick one and perform it. Until you do this, you cannot use specials(!). Technically, you can actually WAIT until the stun wears off and then use a special but the amount of time you would have to wait until you can skip to the special move is far too long to be a viable option. You may have heard of Mr. Game and Watch’s “bucket braking”- his down special (the bucket) cancels all momentum. Since you can’t use specials immediately after getting knocked back, G&W has to use neutral air first. This is where the list of moves comes in. Once you use a move, you can use another move (or a special move). Here, move duration DOES matter, because you want to get to the special as quickly as possible. DK’s up-B works the same way. G&W uses the neutral air because it ends the quickest out of all of his aerials (including an air dodge) so he can use the bucket a little bit earlier.
Why don’t the highlighted numbers match up for each character?
There is a period of time after you’re hit before you can use an aerial or airdodge. As the article http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=4377 mentions, airdodges have 14 frames where you can’t do anything else yet (sad face). While you can buffer the airdodge (press it a few frames earlier than normal), these 14 frames are added to the amount of frames that an airdodge already takes. Aerial attacks have 26 frames to add on, which is why Mario’s 29-frame upair (in red) turns into the 55 total frames (in blue). After these 55 frames (from the time he gets hit to the time the upair finishes 55 frames later), he can start another aerial, airdodge, fireball, up-B, jump, or anything. ROB’s airdodge takes 39 frames, but when you add in the extra 14 at the beginning where he can’t do anything, you get 53, the number in blue. Even though the forward air LOOKS better because 31 is better than 39, aerials have 26 frames to add on in when waiting instead of an airdodge’s 14. Thus, while 39 becomes 53, the forward air’s 31 frames actually turn into 57, making it 4 frames slower*** than airdodging
***This part will create problems later because of fastfalling.
Is the airdodge faster than the fair even with these frames? Yes! Isn’t the point to get to the side b as fast as possible? Well…sort of. Ideally, you want to end up in the upper corner of the screen because it's the furthest point from the stage, giving you the most time to react. HOWEVER, as infzy (<3) pointed out, jumping isn’t going to help you that much here. Jumping won’t slow your horiztonal momentum down enough to make a difference, AND the frames you use to jump would be better spent starting the side B since even a jump takes frames away and doesn’t make nearly as much of a difference in slowing you down as side B does. You want to DI to the corner, not adjust with a jump. If you jumped by mistake, it would make a slight difference BUT (and here’s the last problem with jumping) when you jump and immediately side-B, you jump higher than you normally would by just pressing the jump button. The side-B is what saves you, and if you jump and then side-B, you probably didn’t have to jump in the first place, as you run the risk of dying off the TOP of the screen (you should have DI’d toward the top corner anyway*
*fastfalling complications coming
Pause break!
For PURELY HORIZONTAL DI, airdodge>side-B is best. If you’re testing this as you go along, this is where the control stick comes into play. This is also where GwJ started fastfalling the fair>side B instead of airdodge>side B and where the definite conclusions end.
There are posts earlier in this thread where, long story short, I found that NOT mashing B is slightly better than mashing B. Also, when you’re pressing side B, you need to press the control stick and the B button at the same time, NOT just hold the control stick toward the stage and mash B until it works. Holding the control stick when pressing B will kill you at slightly lower percents than *clack clack clack* letting it reset each time. You can use the control stick before this, but make sure you let it go so you get the effect of inputting it to the side and the B button, not just the B button.
…Break time is over. Here we go.
The hypotenuse, the longest side of a triangle, is from where you were hit from to this corner. This is about* where you should have DI’ed to. However, when you fastfall an aerial, you can influence this direction again (slightly, though every bit helps). Remember how Mr. Game and Watch uses a neutral aerial? He doesn’t have to worry as much about this because he can fastfall the aerial AND bucket break afterward. As far as I know, you don’t get as much of a difference, if any, by pressing down during an airdodge to fastfall it while in the flying back animation. This is where the 4 frame difference gets a little hazy: You can fast fall an aerial (more) but not an airdodge (as much). Different moves slow you down and give you more time to fastfall differently- link has a great down air for this. Even though, for example, link’s back air is much faster- you can fit around 3 back airs in the time it takes to do one down air, the fastfalling you can do with the downair will SAVE you when the 3 backairs will still leave you with too much momentum toward the blast zone, killing you. The more you can do this, the further LEFT (assuming you're flying toward the upper RIGHT corner) you can be without getting star ko'ed. All of ROB's aerials are better than his airdodge for this. The little bit you can fastfall by using an aerial is, according to GwJ’s findings and video (not that I don’t trust him) better than the 4 frames you save with an airdodge in that it lessens your knockback in one direction by redirecting it in another direction. Aerials have more "oomph!" to them than airdodges when doing this (like link’s dair compared to his back airs). Now, it becomes a tradeoff between how much of a difference ROB really gets with different moves and speed. Back air takes longer and doesn't reduce enough knockback to be worth it at higher percents, since all of his aerials PALE in comparison to side b's effect. Remember, you want to get to the side-B as quickly as possible while giving yourself just enough space to the side to survive long enough for it to take effect. The extra 4 frames are worth it for forward airing instead of air dodging, but not other aerials, at least from what GwJ found. Also, if you're holding a direction when you input the aerial OR side b, it hurts you, even if you pointed toward the stage.
RESULTS: Purely horizontal DI- SDI>DI>airdodge>sideB>up B if necessary (see below)
If you can afford to fast fall an aerial (which you should, since DI makes a big difference and you should DI a little inside the corner of the screen), then you get hit>SDI>DI>let go and THEN fair>mash down to fast fall>let go and THEN press side b ONCE. All you need is that part in the beginning. As helpful as it is, the rest is unhelpful and just makes the move take longer. If you're still moving at all/not dead, UP-b toward the stage. The up b is actually necessary as simply pointing the control stick toward the stage may still get you KO’ed (I think I found this out getting hit with Snake’s fsmash with pretty consistent results)
I can write a little bit about Vertical DI survival too, though the results aren’t as clear and it’s worth revisiting some day. Even though bucket braking works in all directions, ROB’s side B…doesn’t. Somewhere in the thread I think I linked to it, but a down air TIES with perfectly timed forward air followed by a backair. Upair always lost by a couple percent if I remember correctly. Again, you have to input the aerial cleanly and then mash down, not the other way around. I should revisit this since I have new controllers (yay!) but down air is easier to do since you only mash the cstick for one aerial. Go for the appropriate corner depending on the move like snakes up tilt vs fox's up smash
Hope this helps- I’ll be out until tomorrow night but after that I can try to answer any questions that come up.
Oh, and Sil, I never thought of up B>rising Dair, but I tried it and it doesn’t work nearly as well, though it looks cool.
To do a B reversal, press B and then press the control stick in the opposite direction to the way you’re facing. To wavebounce, you need to do a “turn around” b move and THEN a “B reversal.”
Pretend ROB is falling to the right and facing right (1).
You would press left on the control stick (2)
B (3)
Press right on the control stick (4). It doesn’t have to be hard, but it all has to be done QUICKLY.
What happens: (1) You’re falling right, facing right. (2) You’re falling right, facing left. (3) The B move comes out but you do a B reversal (4), so you’re falling LEFT and facing right again, completing the > motion. When you “B-stick” (set the C stick to specials) you’re doing this with two joysticks instead of one. Instead of hitting left and then right on the control stick, the control stick goes left and the C stick (with specials instead of attacks) goes right.
On topic: I figured I’d post it all here since everyone seems to have a different method. Here’s what works best and how we got there.
And yes, I know that “fastfall” is not an actual word. I’m also going to assume that you know how DI works and are only interested in how ROB should react.
You have to understand that ROB doesn't like to follow the rules of this game, at least when surviving. That being said, his longest lasting move, the side B, helps the most in slowing him down. This is because of the little burst to the side that he gets when the move starts- the part that "hops" a bit on the ground after he rears his arms back.
But doesn’t it take a long time to start up? Yes, and I will talk more about this part later on because it’s important, but for now (you can test and confirm this easily), accept that even if you use a move that comes out FASTER than side-b or finishes EARLIER than side-b, you will still get KO’ed off the side. In other words, the extra few frames it takes for the side-b to make a difference are justified since you would die during those frames anyway.
Here’s where the first part of the article comes into play. It’s not about how fast the move comes out, and it’s NOT always about how fast the move finishes, but how much it helps to save you. This is what side-B, unlike any other move, manages to accomplish (when dealing with horizontal momentum). The problem is, you can't do specials in any direction immediately after getting hit because you're in the stunned, flying back animation, so you want to get out of this animation as quickly as possible (so you can use ROB’s longest-lasting move after that!). To end this animation, you can throw out an aerial or airdodge either 14 frames (airdodge) or 26 frames (aerial) after you get hit at the earliest. Yes, this means that you can start an airdodge earlier than an aerial (see next paragraph) but you'll need to pick one and perform it. Until you do this, you cannot use specials(!). Technically, you can actually WAIT until the stun wears off and then use a special but the amount of time you would have to wait until you can skip to the special move is far too long to be a viable option. You may have heard of Mr. Game and Watch’s “bucket braking”- his down special (the bucket) cancels all momentum. Since you can’t use specials immediately after getting knocked back, G&W has to use neutral air first. This is where the list of moves comes in. Once you use a move, you can use another move (or a special move). Here, move duration DOES matter, because you want to get to the special as quickly as possible. DK’s up-B works the same way. G&W uses the neutral air because it ends the quickest out of all of his aerials (including an air dodge) so he can use the bucket a little bit earlier.
Why don’t the highlighted numbers match up for each character?
There is a period of time after you’re hit before you can use an aerial or airdodge. As the article http://allisbrawl.com/blogpost.aspx?id=4377 mentions, airdodges have 14 frames where you can’t do anything else yet (sad face). While you can buffer the airdodge (press it a few frames earlier than normal), these 14 frames are added to the amount of frames that an airdodge already takes. Aerial attacks have 26 frames to add on, which is why Mario’s 29-frame upair (in red) turns into the 55 total frames (in blue). After these 55 frames (from the time he gets hit to the time the upair finishes 55 frames later), he can start another aerial, airdodge, fireball, up-B, jump, or anything. ROB’s airdodge takes 39 frames, but when you add in the extra 14 at the beginning where he can’t do anything, you get 53, the number in blue. Even though the forward air LOOKS better because 31 is better than 39, aerials have 26 frames to add on in when waiting instead of an airdodge’s 14. Thus, while 39 becomes 53, the forward air’s 31 frames actually turn into 57, making it 4 frames slower*** than airdodging
***This part will create problems later because of fastfalling.
Is the airdodge faster than the fair even with these frames? Yes! Isn’t the point to get to the side b as fast as possible? Well…sort of. Ideally, you want to end up in the upper corner of the screen because it's the furthest point from the stage, giving you the most time to react. HOWEVER, as infzy (<3) pointed out, jumping isn’t going to help you that much here. Jumping won’t slow your horiztonal momentum down enough to make a difference, AND the frames you use to jump would be better spent starting the side B since even a jump takes frames away and doesn’t make nearly as much of a difference in slowing you down as side B does. You want to DI to the corner, not adjust with a jump. If you jumped by mistake, it would make a slight difference BUT (and here’s the last problem with jumping) when you jump and immediately side-B, you jump higher than you normally would by just pressing the jump button. The side-B is what saves you, and if you jump and then side-B, you probably didn’t have to jump in the first place, as you run the risk of dying off the TOP of the screen (you should have DI’d toward the top corner anyway*
*fastfalling complications coming
Pause break!
For PURELY HORIZONTAL DI, airdodge>side-B is best. If you’re testing this as you go along, this is where the control stick comes into play. This is also where GwJ started fastfalling the fair>side B instead of airdodge>side B and where the definite conclusions end.
There are posts earlier in this thread where, long story short, I found that NOT mashing B is slightly better than mashing B. Also, when you’re pressing side B, you need to press the control stick and the B button at the same time, NOT just hold the control stick toward the stage and mash B until it works. Holding the control stick when pressing B will kill you at slightly lower percents than *clack clack clack* letting it reset each time. You can use the control stick before this, but make sure you let it go so you get the effect of inputting it to the side and the B button, not just the B button.
…Break time is over. Here we go.
The hypotenuse, the longest side of a triangle, is from where you were hit from to this corner. This is about* where you should have DI’ed to. However, when you fastfall an aerial, you can influence this direction again (slightly, though every bit helps). Remember how Mr. Game and Watch uses a neutral aerial? He doesn’t have to worry as much about this because he can fastfall the aerial AND bucket break afterward. As far as I know, you don’t get as much of a difference, if any, by pressing down during an airdodge to fastfall it while in the flying back animation. This is where the 4 frame difference gets a little hazy: You can fast fall an aerial (more) but not an airdodge (as much). Different moves slow you down and give you more time to fastfall differently- link has a great down air for this. Even though, for example, link’s back air is much faster- you can fit around 3 back airs in the time it takes to do one down air, the fastfalling you can do with the downair will SAVE you when the 3 backairs will still leave you with too much momentum toward the blast zone, killing you. The more you can do this, the further LEFT (assuming you're flying toward the upper RIGHT corner) you can be without getting star ko'ed. All of ROB's aerials are better than his airdodge for this. The little bit you can fastfall by using an aerial is, according to GwJ’s findings and video (not that I don’t trust him) better than the 4 frames you save with an airdodge in that it lessens your knockback in one direction by redirecting it in another direction. Aerials have more "oomph!" to them than airdodges when doing this (like link’s dair compared to his back airs). Now, it becomes a tradeoff between how much of a difference ROB really gets with different moves and speed. Back air takes longer and doesn't reduce enough knockback to be worth it at higher percents, since all of his aerials PALE in comparison to side b's effect. Remember, you want to get to the side-B as quickly as possible while giving yourself just enough space to the side to survive long enough for it to take effect. The extra 4 frames are worth it for forward airing instead of air dodging, but not other aerials, at least from what GwJ found. Also, if you're holding a direction when you input the aerial OR side b, it hurts you, even if you pointed toward the stage.
RESULTS: Purely horizontal DI- SDI>DI>airdodge>sideB>up B if necessary (see below)
If you can afford to fast fall an aerial (which you should, since DI makes a big difference and you should DI a little inside the corner of the screen), then you get hit>SDI>DI>let go and THEN fair>mash down to fast fall>let go and THEN press side b ONCE. All you need is that part in the beginning. As helpful as it is, the rest is unhelpful and just makes the move take longer. If you're still moving at all/not dead, UP-b toward the stage. The up b is actually necessary as simply pointing the control stick toward the stage may still get you KO’ed (I think I found this out getting hit with Snake’s fsmash with pretty consistent results)
I can write a little bit about Vertical DI survival too, though the results aren’t as clear and it’s worth revisiting some day. Even though bucket braking works in all directions, ROB’s side B…doesn’t. Somewhere in the thread I think I linked to it, but a down air TIES with perfectly timed forward air followed by a backair. Upair always lost by a couple percent if I remember correctly. Again, you have to input the aerial cleanly and then mash down, not the other way around. I should revisit this since I have new controllers (yay!) but down air is easier to do since you only mash the cstick for one aerial. Go for the appropriate corner depending on the move like snakes up tilt vs fox's up smash
Hope this helps- I’ll be out until tomorrow night but after that I can try to answer any questions that come up.
Oh, and Sil, I never thought of up B>rising Dair, but I tried it and it doesn’t work nearly as well, though it looks cool.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
judo read the post right above you lol
- Joined
- May 3, 2009
- Messages
- 7,190
Nice job posting a whole twenty minutes after a huge long explanation that provides the answer to your question.
Mister Eric
Twitch.tv/MisterbeepEric Twitter: @MisterbeepEric
why can't R.O.B. just beep and boop...this stuff hurts my head D:
</3
</3
infomon
Smash Scientist
Split up the knockback into components: horizontal and vertical. afaict, ROB's jump has zero effect on the horizontal component of his knockback; it's just a property of his jump, that it's horizontally weak. Just getting closer to the corner (increasing your vertical distance) doesn't have an effect on the horizontal component of the knockback which will eventually kill you off the side killzone.
Try not to think of it as "giving yourself more time for knockback to end" because adding some upwards velocity doesn't actually save you any time. That makes sense when you're DI'ing the hit, which is what determines the horizontal/vertical components of the knockback in the firstplace, but once they're set you've just got to find some way to get out of hitstun (airdodge or A-attack) and then abuse a property of your character's jump or specials that actually has a useful influence against knockback momentum (which is different than just considering the effect it has normally, when you're not in knockback).
Just IMO... HTH
also, I got schooled by Waffles' post, yet again.
Also, math class is obsolete, just play bawrl
Silhouette
Smash Lord
Have you tried Up-B > Rising Bair?
Tin Man
Smash Hero
Dayum, Infzy in da ROB boards, since when?
GwJ
Smash Hero
HIS NAME IS FISHY!
infomon
Smash Scientist
lol according to this thread, August 2k9 lol.
but yeah I'm not really here nao so ignore me pl0x