New Method of Momentum Canceling

[Big O]

Well I'm just saying in general it would be worse. Even with ROB you could chose to just fall for a bit and it would accomplish the same thing as fastfalling. You would still have the option to recover low.

Edit: Lol I seem to have made a lasting impression. Yeah thanks for backing me up way back then infzy.

 

[CT Chia]

Jumping really only helps if you DI'd wrong, sort of what Stingers was implying. Like if you DI'd too far horizontally, the jump can help get you back closer to the corner. Though I'm sure DI should be able to fix it in the first place, very few if any killing attacks are broken enough to send you at such a horizontal angle where DI won't make you go to the ideal 45 degree mark. But yea, anytime I find myself going too far horizontal I find jumping helps a lil.

Most b moves though are programmed to continue your momentum (some even enhance it like Fox's shine), and there are the very few that stop it like DK's upB, GaW downB, etc. I've never heard ROB's overB in this original list, which makes me wondered why it hasn't been known for a while. I haven't tested it, but I have a feeling you would still be carried by your momentum during the little bit of the startup lag during the overB, then when the spinning actually starts it would stop. I think that lag makes it not really that helpful. Like say there's 10 frames or something of start up lag for overB (just a random number), I can't think of a situation where you would be guaranteed to die on like an 11th frame that overB would have saved you after all the time already spent in canceling your hitstun with fair.

Idk, I feel like I'm going into a loop trying to explain this lol. But pretty much, the overB doesnt stop your momentum immediately compared to other moves which have proved useful.

 

[stingers]

its not really DIed wrong

sometimes you can just never make it to that corner no matter how pro you DI

 

[GwJ]

Airdodging is not an aerial... that's what you didn't understand.

Dodge != Aerial

We were speaking of aerials. (I said move, should've said aerial)

Also you can FF starting frame 1 of an aerial - and after it (IIRC, if not just use fair again....if buffered there is no loss of frames)

EDIT:
PS: That little prop-up of dair can kill you if you are still in (I forget what part) of hitstun.

On second thought, why am I helping ROB mains learn to DI? No, by all means keep doing it wrong. Makes my job of killing you easier.

@Stingers
It's not too hard to DI + mash down quickly. :x

I missed a **** ton of posts, so I'll edit this post with things I need.

SuSa, when under momentum, the pop up in the Dair never happens. ROB just keeps sliding up then his momentum slows down greatly when the jets start.


@Overswarm

-_-

 

[Sudai]

For vertical, Dair and Fair>Bair if you fast-fall them perfectly work best.

I don't feel like reading or responding to the rest of the post, but.. Told you guys that FAir > BAir was best for vertical. Everyone else is merely arguing theory from what I can tell, but really, shouldn't you guys be testing this out. This is one of those rare moments where we actually can test something instead of *****ing about theory..yet you guys still do it. -_-

 

[CT Chia]

Someone should make a video of everything that actually proves it. I trust people that did research, but so many people keep saying different things

 

[infomon]

Told you guys that FAir > BAir was best for vertical.

Do you mean Fair OR Bair, or do you really mean Fair then Bair? because I just explained why the latter is wrong

Someone should make a video of everything that actually proves it. I trust people that did research, but so many people keep saying different things

siiiigh
but I've already made so many videos
but yeah they're all slightly incorrect in subtle ways

fiiiiine
I guess I'll make a new one
since you asked for it
a complete momentum-cancelling video
it might be more than 10mins tho, cuz I'm verbose
and I'll cover ROB in particular, just for you guys.

I should have it done by Sunday (tourney-on-saturday johns, sorry).

someday I should get around to doing DI, too, since all videos on this are at least somewhat wrong.

 

[Darth Waffles]

Wait..what did I miss? I knew I should have compiled everything we covered in this thread and the Q&A thread. =)

Hang on for edits AND VIDEOS

Sudai: =P
Infzy: I'm going to pull up the video with GwJ, but we found that fair is better than airdodge even though the airdodge ends 8 frames earlier. The fair has the "oomph" that the airdodge doesn't, which allows you to live even longer.
Chibo(?, maybe Infzy too): Read the first few pages of this thread, or at least the beginning up until I posted yesterday while I get the links and summaries edited in.
Sudai again: Fair>Bair is hardest because you have to get the fastfall perfectly (twice) and Dair saves you without a second aerial. I got Fair>Bair to work ONCE like I got Upair>something to work once, so I included them in. Getting the Dair off is easiest, and, until someone actually tests it, best

Quoted from Q&A Thread
Fair>WAFFLEcopter works for horizontal knockback

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Rqxx74MclI
Unnecessarily long video but the part where GwJ actually survives makes it worth it (the last minute or so after you watch the first minute)

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=241753
The thread behind it, where we figured that fair's little momentum-reduction is worth the extra 8 frames you wouldn't have if you airdodged>Side B (This thread, actually. Silly copy and pasted edits)

Full post where the above was taken http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=8032070&postcount=3765

All aerials definitely do NOT cancel the same momentum/knockback/trajectory/let'snotplaywordsemantics/yougettheidea. Just because something is slower also doesn't mean it's less effective in all cases (does not apply for bucket braking/wafflecopter. I mentioned this somewhere else but it's kind of like how Link's Dair can be better for surviving horizontally because even though Bair is so much faster, you'll still be getting killed off the side of the screen since you'll still have the "push" toward the edges of the screen. This "push" is the reason why Wafflecopter is best horizontally- you can fair all you want but you'll still find yourself flying off the side of the screen. The only chance you have at surviving is by going for the side-b over the extra aerial. The side-b's startup lag is justified by the fact that you'll die anyway. Bottom line: unless infzy proves me wrong, ROB's dair is easiest/best for surviving vertically, and FF'ed fair>wafflecopter is best for surviving horizontally.

To whoever mentioned the "you'll end up lower thing": ROB should have no problems recovering from a "little bit lower" =)

History of the term "Wafflecopter"
1. Side B fails and is ROB's worst move
2. Side B even makes ROB SD offstage because it can't be canceled and even though it's obvious ROBs don't intend to use it when recovering below the stage, the side B comes out and ROB floats to his death =(
3. Everybody shuns side B and calls it "robocopter" or "ROFLcopter"
4. While trying to attain "LoCal DI" (Better than Ally DI), Fishy (Darth Waffles) discovers that of all of ROB's moves, Side B is actually the most helpful in surviving a Snake Fsmash in training mode.
----About this time, threads start appearing about "Zelda's B-reversed momentum-canceling"---- Of course, ROB has no such luck
5. Side B, the move coined even worse than Dair, becomes the little engine that could, and proves its worth while improving Fishy's (Darth Waffles') DI.
6. roflcopter becomes wafflecopter =)

Side Bs used to reflect things are still just "side B." "Wafflecopter" only refers to a side B used to eliminate knockback.

 

[Sudai]

Infzy, I already said I didn't read most of the post. The reason FAir > BAir is good isn't because it slows you down any more or anything like that, it's because the BAir changes ROB's hurtbox so he doesn't hit the death zone as quickly.

Fishy, it's not hard at all for me to fast-fall the FAir and BAir. I guess yes it's technically easier to just CStick down, but it's easy for me to FAir > BAir so why not.

 

[Darth Waffles]

Works for me =)

and Infzy, if you could check the airdodge canceled item throw, that would be nice. I feel like regular item throwing didn't help even though it supposedly ends earlier than any aerial, but it's also hard to test it solo because the impact of getting hit with Snake's fsmash makes ROB spazz out, fly back, and drop the gyro in the process of getting hit.

 

[infomon]

and Infzy, if you could check the airdodge canceled item throw, that would be nice.

You mean this?
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=215117

I'll respond to the other stuff here when I'm not at work

 

[Darth Waffles]

Yeah, just because I know airdodging wasn't as effective and I don't think item throwing was either. Maybe when combined, they might be better. I don't know how often a ROB will be hit while holding a gyro though, especially when strong hits can make him drop it anyway.

 

[CT Chia]

is overB really his worst move? hmmm idk. i feel like there should be one thats worse, but i dont think it is. i dont think its a bad move, except for when I SD by accident with it lol

 

[Tin Man]

getting closest to the corner is always best. nvm

side b helps but not by a lot. i mean i can survive pretty well generally. against az's diddy i usually survived dsmashes at like 160%. side b didn't really change that much. its only a few %.

maybe if ur DI isnt as good it helps better.

yes waffle copter doesnt help that much, and were these fresh dsmashes?

 

[GwJ]

is overB really his worst move? hmmm idk. i feel like there should be one thats worse, but i dont think it is. i dont think its a bad move, except for when I SD by accident with it lol

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This so much! You need to use Side B smartly. When used correctly, it's a nice mindgame/spacer to throw in. Angry Stomp is ROB's worst move.

 

[stingers]

angry stomp counts as rob's own move now? lol

 

[CT Chia]

whats a angry stomp?

 

[stingers]

when u use robs dair too close to the ground

nigga starts RAGIN'

 

[GwJ]

It' useful! When you get bored of spotdodging, you can use the slower angry stomp as a means to prevent getting grabbed!

Nevermind

 

[infomon]

real post coming soon....

ROB's worst move?

overswarm.



<3 OS

 

[Darth Waffles]

Snap.

...Crackle and Pop!

 

[infomon]

^^ trufax wafflez

Bahahahaha!! I've extensively tested ROB out, and have some surprising results

Test Procedure: My testing is with using a C-sticked DK Fsmash on ROB at closest standing distance from the bottom-left corner of the largest possible custom stage (no hacks, blocks at lowest/leftmost position) hitting ROB to the top-right (but not near the killzone), no SDI or DI. In Training mode (so %s are a bit different than normal), 1/4 speed, mashing buttons to be sure to buffer stuff at the earliest moment. %s are the % given to ROB before the Fsmash hits.

Absolutely no input from the ROB:

ROB lives to at most 121%.​

No hitstun-escaping or momentum-cancelling, just leaning towards the stage at the end of hitstun (tumble):

ROB lives to at most 126%.​

^^ leaning towards the stage starts to help at the earliest time that hitstun normally wears off, and you transition to the "tumble" state. I'll just call this "tumble" time, ie. "at tumble".

No hitstun-escaping, just using a Jump at tumble:

126%​

No hitstun-escaping, just using side-B at tumble:

124%​

^^ yes this is worse LOL. I believe this is because at the very start of the side-B, you're given an extra boost away from the stage due to its momentum-changing nature (like Fox's shine, etc.). What's interesting here is that we're in the knockback that happens after the natural end of hitstun. This state ("at tumble") is a bit funny; in this range, there might be circumstances in which crazy things like B-reversing might actually be able to help. I haven't studied this circumstance in detail, since usually you can break out of hitstun earlier than it happens anyway. Needs more thorough research. Note: I don't believe that B-reversing helps here, I'm pretty sure it can only hurt you

Airdodge:

126% (no effect)​

Fair once:

126% (no effect)​

Fair'ing many times towards the stage:

126% (no effect)​

Bair'ing towards the stage twice:

126% (no effect)​

Bair'ing towards the stage thrice:

125%​

^^ yes, the Bair is worse. Why is that? Let's see:

No aerial to cancel hitstun, just lean towards the stage and after tumble starts, Bair:

125%​

^^ It's not the number of Bairs that killed us (since we can do two earlier on and live to 126%); it's the fact that we're doing one close to the killzone. There are two possibilities:

1. The Bair moves ROB's hurtbox CLOSER to the killzone, rather than away from it (lol)
   I do not believe this for a moment
2. What's really happening, IMO: you know how aerials that have momentum-changing properties, don't have those effects during hitstun/knockback? Well, here at tumble-time things are different: your aerial does have an effect, but like Fox's shine, it's an unfriendly boost away from the stage.

Fair > Jump:

126%​

^^ Wowwww, ROB's jump IS completely useless. Well, you can use it if you want; it does not help, and may well kill you off the top (since remember it boosts you higher up than a normal jump, a-la fox's shine)


Now for things that are actually useful:

Fair > side-B (push side-B once and hold towards the stage, no button-mashing):

128%​

Fair > side-B (mash the B button to keep it spinning while holding towards the stage):

129%​

^^ keeping it spinning helps!

Note that while side-B hurt us if we start it too close to the killzone (ie. by waiting out hitstun), by cancelling hitstun with the Fair we were able to start it early enough that it overcame its unfriendly boost with friendly momentum.

Airdodge > side-B (mashing the button etc.):

129%​

I would need to start over testing with a weaker move than DK's Fsmash to be able to find any % difference between the airdodge and the Fair to escape hitstun before using side-B to avoid the horizontal killzone. Since the Fair can be fastfalled but the Bair can't, this means Fair > side-B w/ button-mashing is our winner thus far.

Item-throw > side-B w/ button-mashing:

130%​

Airdodge > immediately cancel airdodge with item-throw > side-B w/ button-mashing:

131%​

^^ and maybe higher since it's hard to be frame-perfect with that.

Any questions!?!?

The reason FAir > BAir is good isn't because it slows you down any more or anything like that, it's because the BAir changes ROB's hurtbox so he doesn't hit the death zone as quickly.

Nope.

we found that fair is better than airdodge even though the airdodge ends 8 frames earlier. The fair has the "oomph" that the airdodge doesn't, which allows you to live even longer.

O rly??

Please define "oomph". Was it the fastfall?

Fair>Bair is hardest because you have to get the fastfall perfectly (twice) and Dair saves you without a second aerial.

You can only fastfall once. There's no such thing as fastfalling the second aerial.

 

[Camalange]

ROB's worst move?

overswarm.



<3 OS

It doesn't even momentum cancel or DI :/

 

[Darth Waffles]

Interesting results, Infzy. A little different than mine but I tested with Snake's fsmash instead (not that that should make a difference in itself, but the way GwJ went about surviving was a little different than your method). I think I'll try your method in a little bit just to confirm everything.

I guess we can say "oomph" is "knock-back-reducing effect". Like, since a regular airdodge has no knockback-reducing effect, other than being 8 frames faster than fair, it has no "oomph" to actually resist further motion in the knockback's path. I originally found that airdodge>side B was better than aerial>aerial or airdodge>anything else, but now that I consider the differences in how you and GwJ tested, I think that made all the difference. In your testing, you eliminated more variables (even though it was in 1/4th speed so perfect buffering shouldn't really be an issue anyway) than he did by holding off on the control stick until the airdodge/fair/whatever came into play. That's what I usually do with Snake instead of DK. In other words, your knockback was like...
____________________________
######################l
######################l
##############.......----```Bl
######......----``'A''`########l
....----````################l
where #'s are the stage area, "___" and "l" are blast zones, and the other stuff is the trajectory. Somewhere around A you're doing the fair/airdodge/item toss and at B you're getting the side B off

GwJ, on the other hand, added in the control stick and tried to live as long as possible, which included going for the corner rather than just the aerial. My guess is that when he DI'ed Snake's fsmash (which normally kills you just under the opposite upper corner), he DI'ed up, perhaps *just* to the left of the upper-right corner, used fair to begin fastfalling, and used the extra few frames he gave himself by doing so in order to get off the side B and live longer. "Oomph" aside, his trajectory, on the other hand, probably looked like this:

____________________________
################....---''''---l
#############...-'''###### l
#########...--'''##########l
#####....--`''#############l
...---``'#################l

He flew up more, fast-falled the fair instead of airdodged to ensure that he didn't die off the top, and then got the Side B at the corner at as high a % as he could. Since you'll want to be DI'ing both smashes a little up anyway, I guess that makes FF'ed fair the better choice. If you're not going to get close to the top of the screen, or you can't turn your knockback path into a "hill" going up one side, over the top with the FF'ed fair and down the other side, then unless anyone proves Infzy wrong, you may as well do either fair or airdodge, since they both last until the same percent, unless you have an item in hand, in which case you should do an airdodge-cancelled item throw.

Again, I think I'm going to try the DK method in a little bit.

 

[GwJ]

^ That's what I did.

 

[Sudai]

You guys should be DI'ing like that anyway. I barely played and it was easy for me to learn the DI angles for most common kill moves and can determine it pretty quickly if I don't already know it. You guys that play all the time should be able to figure it out pretty easily. The only advantage I have is 3 years of Melee and let me tell you, the DI in both is a lot different due to gravity so figuring out DI angles are a bit different too.

 

[Darth Waffles]

Well, I'm doing the DK forward smash trials now, and while I agree with infzy's starting values, I'm getting higher results than what he did.

I don't have any "final" values yet, but I can tell you that I'm surviving at 130 and 131 with airdodge>side B. The key difference so far: do NOT hold toward the stage at all until the side B begins see edits. I don't know if this is ROB-specific or not, but I'm finding that holding the direction opposite the knockback BEFORE doing the aerial (like flying to the left, holding right on the control stick, and getting a c-sticked fair while still holding right on the control stick kills you faster than if you had just done the fair without the control stick. I originally found this to be the case when testing with Snake's uptilt- holding down on the control stick (aside from not helping you) actually HURTS you and causes the Dair to get you star KO'ed when it wouldn't without the control stick input.

edit1: I can get 131 with airdodge>side B NOT mashing. Side B without mashing B actually ends early enough for me to get an UP B toward the stage to survive. Haven't tried mashing yet

edit2: 131 with airdodge>side B mashing the B button works too. As soon as I get the side B I push/mash the control stick toward the stage.

Edit3: 132 with airdodge>sideB both with and without mashing B. In fact, NO control stick input is required (other than to get a buffered side B). It might be possible that I can get an extra percent like Infzy did by mashing B, but I haven't noticed any difference so far. I'll try a few more at 133 and then move on to fair>sideB

Edit4: 133 is tricky- I've gotten it multiple times but it's hard to tell exactly what I did. I don't know if it helps but I like to mash the control stick toward the stage during the side B. As SOON as possible AFTER the side B (which had better results when I didn't mash B, but I think(?) I also got it once with mashing B), do an Up-B toward the stage because I've had ones where I've died right after side B ended when I survived by following it up with up-B back to the stage. Time to try fair>side B

Edit5: fair>side B caps out at 129 both with and without mashing B. I guess mashing the control stick during side B really doesn't help.

Final Edit: I'm really bad at the airdodge>gyro thing. Either ROB drops his gyro when he gets hit or I can only do the airdodge>throw once out of every 10 times... and that's just standing on the ground, jumping, and trying to do it. I can't get it at all (not that it's any different) when DK hits me and I manage to keep the gyro.

 

[infomon]

The key difference so far: do NOT hold toward the stage at all until the side B begins see edits. I don't know if this is ROB-specific or not, but I'm finding that holding the direction opposite the knockback BEFORE doing the aerial (like flying to the left, holding right on the control stick, and getting a c-sticked fair while still holding right on the control stick kills you faster than if you had just done the fair without the control stick.

If this is correct, then it's a really cool find!!

I originally found this to be the case when testing with Snake's uptilt- holding down on the control stick (aside from not helping you) actually HURTS you and causes the Dair to get you star KO'ed when it wouldn't without the control stick input.

Ah-ah-ah.... that's something different. Star KO = you're dying off the top. The problem here is that if you're holding Down, then you can't fastfall your aerial; the game needs to register a "tap down" input either on the frame you start the aerial (*), or anytime afterwards. This is why "holding towards the stage" was harmful. But for horizontal, there should be no such phenomenon. Although, maybe there is........

I'll test tonight.

Final Edit: I'm really bad at the airdodge>gyro thing. Either ROB drops his gyro when he gets hit or I can only do the airdodge>throw once out of every 10 times... and that's just standing on the ground, jumping, and trying to do it. I can't get it at all (not that it's any different) when DK hits me and I manage to keep the gyro.

Yeah it's really freaking hard
and ppl still say brawl has no techskill
it's cuz they're not playing brawl good enough lol


(*) again, I'm not sure about that one frame.

 

[stingers]

DI in Melee and DI and Brawl are both really simple lol

 

[Darth Waffles]

Hope so infzy. Whatever you want to call it, you can get 132 without pressing anything on the control stick other than the side B input- even press it and hold the controller flat in your hand- you'll just float down safely.

 

[infomon]

OK, I've observed your results (except I never lived at 133 lol). I tried to narrow down exactly when holding towards the stage caused death. It's difficult to test anything at such extremes (airdodge must start as early as possible, etc.), but here's my conclusion for now:

There must be something categorically different between starting ROB's side-B with smash-input (ie. tap the stick to the side as you hit B) vs. tilt-input (ie. slowly tilt or hold the stick to the side, then hit B).

In our case, holding to the side will kill you if you started holding to the side during the airdodge. My theory is that since you're holding to the side, when you buffer the side-B (to get it as early as possible), it doesn't treat it as a smash-sideways input, so your side-B doesn't help as much as if you really hit side-B (with it registering a sideways tap), which you're more or less forced to do if you haven't started holding the stick sideways during the airdodge.

It's pretty finnicky, but otherwise:
Holding sideways before the earliest airdodge won't kill you
Holding sideways at about the time the airdodge ends and as you side-B, won't kill you

The ONLY way I was able to get the necessitated-death was if I'd buffered the side-B from fairly early in the airdodge.

Mind you, it's pretty hard to make sure that I start to airdodge at the earliest possible moment, even at 1/4 speed. So these results are a little suspect, but that's my conclusion for now. I haven't been able to reproduce the extra-death-caused-by-holding-towards-the-stage-during-hitstun/momentum-cancelling with other chars, but I only tried with a couple. Alternatively there might just be something else weird about ROB, like his airspeed vs. weight parameters or something. But I can't for the life of me think what.

 

[Darth Waffles]

In our case, holding to the side will kill you if you started holding to the side during the airdodge. My theory is that since you're holding to the side, when you buffer the side-B (to get it as early as possible), it doesn't treat it as a smash-sideways input, so your side-B doesn't help as much as if you really hit side-B (with it registering a sideways tap), which you're more or less forced to do if you haven't started holding the stick sideways during the airdodge.

I don't know how I didn't read this part until now, but I like how it sounds. I don't know if this is true or not, but it would make a little more sense if pressing the stick and B gave you the "not-really-perpendicular-but-better-than-nothing" extra inch that might save you from dying as opposed to "wasting" the tap by having it pressed and simply pressing B. I had also found that holding toward the stage when you do an aerial input kills you faster than when pressing nothing, so I guess it doesn't apply to specials. Or just ROB's specials. Or just ROB =P

there might just be something else weird about ROB

ROB is just...weird. He doesn't have reasoning... he just does things. He can kind of bucket break with the slowest move in his arsenal. He gets footstool combos/infinites done on him that don't work against practically anyone else. He should have a grab release footstool infinite on MK. The list goes on

Anyway, I figured out how to survive at 133. I even pulled it off at normal speed(!). Step by step:
-Airdodge as soon as possible
-Get the side B off by smashing the stick toward the stage and pressing B. If you're too early, don't worry, just do it again, make sure you're hitting the stick every time, NOT HOLDING IT. Your thumbs should be repeatedly hitting the B button and the control stick to the side (and then letting go and doing it again) until it starts the side B animation. Eventually, I got better at knowing when to do this and now I know about how long I have to wait before I need to hear "clack clack clack" until I see the animation start
-Do NOTHING. Let go of everything. Yes, this means that not mashing B is techinically better in the long run than mashing B. Mashing and/or pressing the control stick during side B has no effect when it comes to saving you or killing you. Side B, by the time it is done (wihout mashing B), reduces the momentum away from the stage enough so that you can...
-UP B. So side-B, despite being the slowest move to come out and end, happens to be the most effective for reducing horizontal momentum. But with a strong enough hit, even side B won't be enough on its own. This is why you die if you mash B during the side B. It doesn't help, and makes the side-B take longer. What the shortest possible Wafflecopter DOES do, though, is reduce the momentum *almost* all the way. Like... 99.093 percent of it. You still have the tiniest bit of momentum away from the stage, an equal amount whether you mash B or not. This little bit is enough to kill you if you extend the side B at all. Turns out, if you up-B immediately after side B ends, you'll survive. Try it- it works!

Remember, holding the control stick during side B has no effect in this method in terms of surviving. As soon as the side B begins, you can hold the control stick to somewhere around the upper left or upper right corners (whichever is toward the stage), or just wait until the side B ends and mash it, both of which work, the latter of which is probably better for the same reason/theory that worked for side-B mashing being better over just pressing B.

Basically, ROB is weird. His best strictly-horizontal momentum-cancelling strategy is to airdodge, short (irony?) side B, and up-B to keep himself alive. In other words, his best way to reduce horizontal momentum is to throw out his slowest move and follow it up with the only move he has which has absolutely no knockback...ever. Oh ROB... o.O It also feels REALLY awkward in normal speed to survive this by pressing side B and do absolutely nothing as ROB flies off-screen until it ends and you can up-B just in time. If you up-B too early, the B input will only extend the Wafflecopter, killing you by the time it ends.

 

[Darth Waffles]

fail double post

 

[infomon]

wow. good stuff darkwaffles!!

You've officially confirmed that ROB has the absolute worst AND most horrendously convoluted momentum-cancelling in the game.

Congratulations on ruining your character

 

[Darth Waffles]

=)

ROB doesn't follow the rules of this game

 

[GwJ]

ROB is like that weird kid at school who isn't athletic. He can't do what anyone else does so the few things he can do are these weird-*** version he made up himself to poorly replicate what everyone else is doing to fit in.

 

[Ruse]

Mankosuki has been doing this for months.

End thread.

 

[Darth Waffles]

eight pages of this and you tell me now? =P

 

[Ruse]

I don't ever get on here. I'm too busy tapping B.

 

[infomon]

then Darth Waffles has proved that you're doing it wrong.
(barely.)