NEW Kirby Guide's Construction Grounds! Currently: Adding Information

[TaterSalad0811]

Hey Kirbies, since you guys brought it up in the GD, I've decided to make a new Kirby guide, though it will be much more detailed than this (nothing) as you guys contribute, so anybody who can, please lend a hand, or this will take forever.

<(^.^)> Kirby approves of new guide
Part I-Moveset

The first part of this guide will be to detail the complete moveset of Kirby, with pictures, data, and advice from the experts (or whoever contributes) to help grasp the manner in which to employ.

Jab (Normal)

Hit One:

Hit Two:

Hit Three:

Vulcan Jab (Rapid)

Forward Tilt

Up Tilt

This picture consists of three to show just how much range Kirby's Up Tilt really has.


Down Tilt

Forward Smash

The first picture is of the beginning of the Forward Smash, the second being it's ending. Note how the hitbox shrinks slightly in the ending frames. The trajectory also angles upwards during this period, while the starting one hits your target forward.


Up Smash

[Currently needs picture]


Down Smash

Forward Air

Up Air

Like the Up Tilt, the Forward Air consists of three pictures to fully show it's range.

Down Air

Note that this attack consists of 5-7 hits, but all with the same hitbox. The move acts as a decent meteor/spike, and often combos into a footstool.

Forward Special (Air)

The first hit here sends the opponent up and away from Kirby, but if hit 2 connects, then the opponent is sent at a horizontal trajectory.

Forward Special (Ground)

This version of the Hammer consists of a single, powerful hit, which while having some lag, sends the opponent up and a bit in front of Kirby. Can be used to kill a medium-high %.

Props to A1ion835 for the write-up here:

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9681512#post9681512

 

[Kewkky]

More like "Kirby Guide's construction grounds!" cuz there's nothing at first, and we'll have valuable info soon enough. :o

 

[TaterSalad0811]

More like "Kirby Guide's construction grounds!" cuz there's nothing at first, and we'll have valuable info soon enough. :o

GRRR... I wanted the 2nd post...

Hey mods, can you swap this with Kewwky's spot so I can edit it, because it's gonna be a hassle to put it ALL in the 1st post... whatever...

 

[Kewkky]

GRRR... I wanted the 2nd post...

Hey mods, can you swap this with Kewwky's spot so I can edit it, because it's gonna be a hassle to put it ALL in the 1st post... whatever...

it took you like 15 mins to do another post?

 

[TaterSalad0811]

it took you like 15 mins to do another post?

I didn't think about it until I saw you posted

Also, I have all the jabs and tilts saved, and am on F-smash now.

 

[*JuriHan*]

if u need help ask with any write-ups ask me. I made the best Jigglypuff guide.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258865

Kirby is my main btw.

In fact, I would of made the new guide myself- I thought about it however I'm back at my university so I don't have time to be responsible for the whole thing. Only reason I was able to write the Jigglypuff guide was because I was on christmas break.

 

[MK26]

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?5wwkymnnyzy

^^kirby hitbox pac, for those of you that dont have it

Changelist, for those of you who care:

Spoiler

COMPLETED

TEST1
Dtaunt bit variable set and Utaunt bit variable clear
Jab and dash attack
Tilts

TEST2
Grabs
Pummel
Dthrow normal bubbles

TEST3
Smashes

TEST4
Aerials

TEST5
Fixed Jab2 error

TEST6
DownAttackU
DownAttackD
CliffAttackQuick
CliffAttackSlow
SlipAttack

TEST7
Dair landing

TEST8
Neutral B subactions

TEST9
SpecialS
SpecialAirS
SpecialHi2
SpecialLw1
DummySpecialLwToGround
DummySpecialLwToAir
SpecialAirLw1

v1.0
Fix SpecialHi2, SpecialHi3, and SpecialAirHi3

v1.01
Fix Dsmash

v1.02
Fix subaction 1f8 and 1fb (both down-b subactions)

v1.03
Fix subaction 1f6 (down-b subaction, same problem as 1f8/1fb)

v1.1
Fix scaling
Attack11
Attack12
Attack100
Catch
Catchdash
CatchAttack

v1.11
Fix scaling
AttackS3(Hi,S,Lw)
AttackHi3
AttackLw3
AttackS4
AttackHi4
AttackLw4
AttackAirHi

v1.12
Fix scaling
DownAttackU
DownAttackD
CliffAttackQuick
CliffAttackSlow

TO-DO

Jab100 - variance doesnt match hitboxes (editor's note: this attack has made me cry)
DownB - when starting on ground, hitbox doesnt appear (editor's note: somebody try checking out Kirby's articles, maybe?)
Go back to TEST8 and recreate pac without accidental edit to SpecialLw2 (editor's note: lol)
Sub Actions starting at 206 (editor's note: proof of divinity recommended before attempting)

 

[TaterSalad0811]

http://www.mediafire.com/download.php?5wwkymnnyzy

^^kirby hitbox pac, for those of you that dont have it

Changelist, for those of you who care:

So is that the program that makes Kirby's hitboxes light up?

Oh well, I'll finish up what I can tonight, I'm going snowboarding (poor Kewwk) this weekend, and I will NOT get my manhood slammed against a grind rail... not this time...

Don't worry, this will be all organized and stuff one I have a sufficient amount on my computer, that way when I update, there will be something substantial. Will be back Sunday night.

 

[A1lion835]

I have a feeling that the guide should have in-depth stuff on all of Kirby's moves, and I'd be happy to write up stone and final cutter: they're both really underrated moves, but most people don't know half the crap you can do with them or when they should use them. Here's a sample of something I wrote up on stone for AiB. It's mostly just the basics, but I had a ton more I didn't include because I didn't want it to be too long.

As for how we format it, I think it should be done similarly to how t1mmy's is done on AiB (the guide has an OP with links to posts describing everything). How we split up the data should depend on how much we get; we could group the entire moveset together, or we could separate it by b-moves, tilts, etc.

I can also help make things pretty if anyone needs it.

 

[Tiersie]

if u need help ask with any write-ups ask me. I made the best Jigglypuff guide.

Quite funny that you flatter yourself so much, I read the guide, then Illianalex's guide and then the posts below yours, and I must say I agree with what most of the people are saying ( which is that is in fact NOT the best jigglypuff guide and that you are indeed flattering yourself).

 

[A1lion835]

Quite funny that you flatter yourself so much, I read the guide, then Illianalex's guide and then the posts below yours, and I must say I agree with what most of the people are saying ( which is that is in fact NOT the best jigglypuff guide and that you are indeed flattering yourself).

While I agree that it doesn't seem like the best Jigglypuff guide, most of the complaints come from either not getting credit (Veril) or from people who seem nearly identical to Falcon from our boards (M-WUZ-H3R3), only a few of them complaining about actual information, which, as the guide is still under construction, is understandable (though it's had plenty of time to get finished).

It also seems like she didn't ask any Jiggly's before writing this guide, which may be why there were a few angry ones.

 

[Kewkky]

Awright, you guys can write up any in-depth description of moves and post them here. If there's something you would like to add, then just quote their post, add your stuff in the quote inside the paragraphs of the previous post (if you want to add onto something being explained) or make a whole new paragraph where you feel it would belong (if they're talking about utilt's combo-ability and you want to talk about how it can be a hindrance, that's another paragraph) both in bold so we know what your edits were, and post it in the thread. The more we help each other, the better it will look!

And try to not repeat the same things over and over again (talking about combo-ability for utilt here, then accidentally combo-ability for utilt there...), so we can keep it clean and pretty and non-confusing. :D

 

[*JuriHan*]

\
It also seems like she didn't ask any Jiggly's before writing this guide, which may be why there were a few angry ones.

Not true. Please actually read the guide before making assumptions. I specfically wrote in the "Why I wrote this" section that other puff mains wanted me to write a new guide. Old one said rollout was a good kill move, her throws killed, d-smash is good for edge guarding. So many untrue statements.

Quite funny that you flatter yourself so much,

"so much?" this is the first time I ever said it was a good guide.

Spoiler

should of just stopped reading here, amirite?

I read the guide, then Illianalex's guide and then the posts below yours, and I must say I agree with what most of the people are saying ( which is that is in fact NOT the best jigglypuff guide and that you are indeed flattering yourself).

Troll harder next time hon. I'm trying to help, you're clearly trying to troll.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhkNLHictW8

Also, the people who complained about the guide (fro, m) are players who just do primarly wifi. Germany's best Jigglypuff (Tham) and Jigglymaster who placed with her at pound 4 liked the guide. Samboner also said the guide was amazing. Many other players are telling me how useful and helpful the new guide is too. GG.


but this thread is about the new Kirby guide. Not my Jigglypuff. Let's keep it that way please.

Make sure to list all possible f-smash set ups under the killing section, such as

d-tilt>f-smash,

d-air>f-smash,

f-air>d-tilt>f-smash,

and DA>d-tilt>f-smash

 

[Tiersie]

I just feel that the guide should be written by someone who actually knows how to play kirby is all. And unless your vids are a complete malpresentation of you qualities as a player, you are not that person.

The sad part is that I was just stating truths, and that that's enough to scare you into offense...

Pathetic.

 

[A1lion835]

Not true. Please actually read the guide before making assumptions. I specfically wrote in the "Why I wrote this" section that other puff mains wanted me to write a new guide. Old one said rollout was a good kill move, her throws killed, d-smash is good for edge guarding. So many untrue statements.

Sorry, I only had time to skim through it this morning. I was judging solely on the reactions of people ("old guide was good") in my statement.

Troll harder next time hon. I'm trying to help, you're clearly trying to troll.

I disagree; Tierse is merely stating his opinions, and they contradict yours.

Also, the people who complained about the guide (fro, m) are players who just do primarly wifi. Germany's best Jigglypuff (Tham) and Jigglymaster who placed with her at pound 4 liked the guide. Samboner also said the guide was amazing. Many other players are telling me how useful and helpful the new guide is too. GG.[/QUOTE]

I just feel that the guide should be written by someone who actually knows how to play kirby is all. And unless your vids are a complete malpresentation of you qualities as a player, you are not that person.

While I understand why these are your views, I (from personal experience) know that just because someone isn't good at smash doesn't mean they don't know crap about it. Me? I'm not that great of a smasher, but I know a ton about FC and stone, which is why I've volunteered for it.

If you're prepared to criticize someone's knowledge without the slightest clue how far it extends, be ready to eat your words. That, or argue your side pretty **** well.

Edit: t1mmy's guide has a crapton of hitboxes posted, including those not in our vid, like inhale's grab range.

 

[Tiersie]

If you're prepared to criticize someone's knowledge without the slightest clue how far it extends, be ready to eat your words. That, or argue your side pretty **** well.
range.

I am aware of how rash that statement was, and I regret putting it that way.

Rephrasement:

Anyone that only combo's in Fsmash via dtilts obviously does not know kirby enough to represent him in a competetive guide.

Edit: A bread n butter setup for a kill would be intentionally (fastfall) bair someone's shield and then give them a footfull of concentrated awesomeness when they try to shieldgrab you. It works pretty good even on people that know the matchup.

 

[A1lion835]

I am aware of how rash that statement was, and I regret putting it that way.

Rephrasement:

Anyone that only combo's in Fsmash via dtilts obviously does not know kirby enough to represent him in a competetive guide.

Edit: A bread n butter setup for a kill would be intentionally (fastfall) bair someone's shield and then give them a footfull of concentrated awesomeness when they try to shieldgrab you. It works pretty good even on people that know the matchup.

SNO could still know a ton of stuff about Kirby in some other random area. While I agree that she shouldn't write an entire guide on her own (what non-pro should?), thinking that just because she doesn't know fsmash set-ups inside and out means she doesn't know anything about Kirby is wrong.

 

[t!MmY]

Funny, I just finished updating my guide on AiB with all the photos of hitboxes that I've been editing and uploading. I dropped in to update my guide here. XD

 

[A1lion835]

Funny, I just finished updating my guide on AiB with all the photos of hitboxes that I've been editing and uploading. I dropped in to update my guide here. XD

I went to your AiB guide to steal your FC frame data. I was like "Whoa! t1mmy must've had these hitbox pictures for ages. ****..." xD

One question: your frame data says that FC hits on frames 23, 43 and 56. I assume that 43 is the downward slash and 56 is when he hits the ground, so doesn't that mean it'd have a hitbox from frames 43-56?

 

[t!MmY]

That's true about the FC having a hitbox from 43 onward. I was thinking I should go change it to "43 - 56' now, but then I realized that it's not technically correct. The hitbox is "continuous" but its duration can end before 56. So I guess I should keep the data the same, and then add an annotation about the hitbox at the end.

 

[Kewkky]

Well t1mmy, we COULD have 2 guides... The more the new Kirby mainers have to learn from, the faster they improve. Maybe having Kirby seen from 2 different perspectives is a better idea than just having 1 guide.

I'm still gonna write up as much as I can (when I get my laptop in a week or two), because I wanna do something besides talk in Tactical Discussion. D:

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Woah, I'm gone one weekend and you guys start with the fury...

And this isn't so much MY guide as it is OUR guide, or just the NEW guide. I'll have a section for detailed set-ups, combos (lol, combos). etc., So anyone who has something to contribute, feel free to post it, I'll credit everybody at the end, the idea is for a community project, so we need to work together to REALLY make this thing great. Like, friggin' EPIC. And when I say "anything" I mean ANYTHING, remember, the people reading this are going to have absolutely NO idea how to play Kirby, so we need to get

1)Detailed
2)Specific
3)Accurate

So, with no more run-on sentences to annoy you grammatically correct folks with, I ask once more, contribute, discuss, post, and make this thing a success.

By the way, I'll have pictures up asap, people can put pointers/strategies up in advance for any moves though.

And I'm not here to steal your thunder, T1mmy, what Kewwky said, more perspective=more success

Double the win for double the fun! (God, that's fun to say...)

 

[t!MmY]

I think you should have the section for combos litterally titled "Lol combos". XD

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Okay guys, I've got all the pictures I'll need for now, so once they upload I'll post them in the OP, and start adding data, strategies, etc. Make sure to contribute, guys.

If you wish to add a caption, simply put it in a post so I can quote or copy it in the OP.

 

[A1lion835]

Be a Rock Star: A Guide to Stone

1. Intro
2. Basic Overview
3. Grounded
4. Aerial

Onstage
Offstage​

5. Techniques (stage-specific and otherwise)
6. Conclusion



1. Introduction

First off, let me get this out of the way: this isn’t going to be very large. Stone is nowhere near even inhale’s limited level of versitality. Think about it; almost the only time it’s used it has ½ second of startup-lag, is fairly predictable, is almost always punished if you don’t hit with it and has phantom lag to boot.

However, stone does have uses, which I will cover in this guide. We’ll start out with the basics, which you probably know.

2. Basic Overview

When Kirby uses Stone into 1 of 5 objects:

(the appearance has no effect on the hitbox)

When in the air, Kirby immediately starts plummeting down onto the opponent dealing good damage and knockback. On the ground, he transforms twice as fast as in the air, but deals less damage and is more easily punished. Stone has a hitbox (which is reasonably well disjointed to the left and right) at 3 points:

1. The frame after the transformation is completed

2. While falling through the air

3. When landing on the ground

The hitbox when landing on the ground is the same as the grounded one, but the aerial one usually hits first if you’re falling down on an opponent. We’ll save that data for the next couple sections. Kirby also takes no damage while in stone form, but you have to be careful; if he accumulates 30% damage from any number of attacks, he’ll be knocked out of stone and be dealt the knockback of the last attack.

3. Grounded Stone

A pretty hitbox picture:

Frame data:

Start-up: 1-13
Hits: 14
Cancels: as early as frame 54

The grounded stone deals 14% on the 14th frame of the attack; I guess Sakurai’s pretty superstitious. This form of stone is rarely used due to its easily punishable ending lag and only 1 frame of hitbox (and phantom lag). It CAN be used OoS, but you need some pretty sick reading skills and a bit of luck to pull that off. There is an "AT" concerning grounded rock called Quick Rock, which I will discuss in the "techniques" section.

4. Aerial Stone

First, a hitbox picture:

Frame data:

Start-up: 1-29
Hits: 30, duration of fall and again when hitting the ground.
Cancels as early as frame 49
HitLag: +7

This deals 18% damage while falling through the air.

Now, we will branch into the 2 uses of aerial stone: onstage and offstage.

4 1/3.Onstage Stone​

​

When you use stone onstage, you may be taking advantage of terrain (windmill on PS1, tilting platform on Yoshi's Island, etc.), or punishing someone not afraid to get under you. Many people will eventually make this mistake. Something else you could try is floating up to your opponent when they’re near the top boundary line and using stone. Your opponent sees a little pink target with “attack me” written all over it, but then they fast-fall into your stone. Start-up lag is good for something after all. However, this is a pretty risky move, and you’re generally better of with a uair, but you can mix it in every so often.

4 2/3.Offstage Stone​

This is the kind of situation that makes your opponent scream/throw their control/gape in awe at TV/all of the above. Just float above/slightly closer to the stage than your opponent and use stone on them. Unless they’re retardedly broken (like some people with their own tiers), they can’t avoid the stone without falling to their death. If they airdodge, they fall too low; if they move out of the path, they fall too low; their only real option is to up-b into your stone and hope they don’t die. If this happens directly under the stage, they can kiss their stock goodbye. People this works best on include Snake, Snake…people with bad recoveries, and Snake.

5. Techniques (stage-specific and otherwise)

There're two non-stage-specific AT's for stone.

- Infinite stone glitch, first discovered on Pictochat's right ledge, allows Kirby to basically be an impenetrable hitbox for an extended period of time. Here's the video. It can be performed on a variety of stages, which I'll go over in my stage-specific part.

- Quick Rock, discovered by Gonzo. It’s easiest to do using b-sticking, but can be done with the default control scheme. If you run offstage and immediately use stone, you get the quicker, grounded transformation while falling off the edge, which is a good surprise edguard. Click this for a video demonstrating Quick Rock.


Here's a list of some stages where you can pull some cool tricks off with stone (will put this in soon):

Pictochat

On the right ledge...no, I can't explain it. Just watch. This is known as the earthquake glitch, and can be performed on other stages as well (which I'll go through in this section).

Conclusion

We've reached the end of my guide on stone! Hopefully you've learned some useful things about stone, including how limited it is (sometimes). My hope is that you know when to use stone and why, and will spread this knowledge to other Kirbies.

A shoutout to t1mmy for being an awesome and unknowingly supplying me with pictures and frame data. xD

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Nice. I'd like to see it.

So while FC often lolcombos into B-air, what else can act as a follow-up? Discuss peplz

 

[A1lion835]

There it is. It's a lot of talking about the basics, but there isn't much more beyond that for stone :/ I'm personally looking forward to the FC guide much more. Here's the URL if you want to link it to the OP.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=9681512#post9681512 .

...I'm obsessed with the color Dark Orchid. xD

 

[aextreme73]

I learned a lot from T!MMY's guide but this guide looks to be doing something helpful
Overall: Helpful
Needs Improvement: No more arguing, Kirby works better when working together

 

[T1MMY]

A shoutout to t1mmy for being an awesome and unknowingly supplying me with pictures and frame data. xD

I see all!

 

[A1lion835]

I see all!

D: Scary stranger!

Um...I'm sort of busy, so FC guide and finishing stone won't happen for a little while.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Yeah, good stuff A1, just remember to keep this a bit simpler, the idea is for new players to be able to quickly learn the basics, the more in-depth stuff we can leave for Timmy (is it me or are there two of him?)

I'll add now

 

[aextreme73]

Yeah, good stuff A1, just remember to keep this a bit simpler, the idea is for new players to be able to quickly learn the basics, the more in-depth stuff we can leave for Timmy (is it me or are there two of him?)

I'll add now

LOL there's only one (methinks :veryconfu

btw, where's bair animation? or are you in the process of retrieving the image? just wondering

 

[Sage JoWii]

-flail- I'm late on looking into helping with the guide and FC is already called? DARN YOU TATER!!

Spoiler

And I'd like to write up about Kirbicide but I'm not sure there's much I could add to the Kirbicide info in the other guide. I think I'll stick to just adding small annotations to other people's work?

 

[T1MMY]

(is it me or are there two of him?)

There's like six or seven of me as of right now.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Get *****, no-multi-account-rule

 

[A1lion835]

-flail- I'm late on looking into helping with the guide and FC is already called? DARN YOU TATER!!

FC is mine . Go find your own obscure, underrated move! (But not stone or inhale though. )

 

[TaterSalad0811]

Dibs on Hammer

 

[MangoAndPals]

Mmhmm, just a question:

Does anyone think that there might be any unfound ATs for Kirby? Because that would be nice.

 

[TaterSalad0811]

I feel that there ARE new things to be found, though a big step would be figuring out the Quick Cutter (Yes, that's what it's called because I said so), and while I have a theory, it would be hard to test, and I've not the time to do so.

 

[fromundaman]

Be a Rock Star: A Guide to Stone

Seriously...? You left out the only useful thing about stone IMO: The infinite stone glitch?



Also, while I feel this guide is somewhat redundant, you can go ahead and add my slightly outdated but still somewhat useful inhale guide to this if you want.

Also 2 (Also harder!), A1, I bet I'll have things to add to that cutter thing when you type it up

Mmhmm, just a question:

Does anyone think that there might be any unfound ATs for Kirby? Because that would be nice.

Well, I know there's at least a couple weird glitches with Kirby that haven't been explored enough (at least one that I believe I am the only one to have ever stumbled upon but can't seem to recreate that involves being suspended in your downwards slash animation above the circle things on Brinstar. I'm pretty sure the hitbox stays out, since the only time I did it, it was an accident, and the Snake player, since he hadn't been caught in it, threw a grenade at me that exploded on contact.).

That being said, it might be useless because A) It seems ridiculously hard to do (I think it had to do with me landing on the same frame a cylinder respawned?) and B) I don't think you can interrupt it, so even if it does work like I think it does and becomes a spiking infinite, it won't matter since you can't stop it, and thus you would get DQed.