New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[ChronoBound]

Sakurai has mentioned Geno in passing I'm pretty sure.. He has at least acknowledged his existence lol.

No, Sakurai have never mentioned Geno.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

Sakurai has mentioned Geno in passing I'm pretty sure.. He has at least acknowledged his existence lol.

Speaking of Geno... :O
I remember watching a P:M 2.6 live stream by the PMBR, and one of the back roomers were talking about how they had made a Geno mod long time ago in the BrawlVault. After that they snickered because they said now everyone's gona assume Geno is confirmed. Before I say anything else.. does Geno show up as a sticker or anything in brawl?

The only thing even close to a mention of Geno in brawl is an unused song from Super Mario RPG...

And yeah, Shadic back in the day made a VERY primitive Geno moveset, though given he is technically third party (due to square owning him) and him not appearing as any part of brawl, his chances are zero to none

 

[ChronoBound]

The only thing even close to a mention of Geno in brawl is an unused song from Super Mario RPG...

The unused track title is "Mushroom_Forest", there is a similar track title in the the game Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time, and considering that there is at least one remix from that game in Brawl (Gritzy Desert), its unclear whether that track is referring to the one from Super Mario RPG or Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

The only thing even close to a mention of Geno in brawl is an unused song from Super Mario RPG...

And yeah, Shadic back in the day made a VERY primitive Geno moveset, though given he is technically third party (due to square owning him) and him not appearing as any part of brawl, his chances are zero to none

Damnit K. I figured but I thought I'd bring it up
Why does Square have to own him? They don't even use him! Super unfair, they should give him to Nintendo.

 

[AnOkayDM]

Damnit K. I figured but I thought I'd bring it up
Why does Square have to own him? They don't even use him! Super unfair, they should give him to Nintendo.

Yes! And then Nintendo can still not put him in Smash Bros.

 

[ChronoBound]

There was a lot of bad blood between Nintendo and Square regarding Super Mario RPG. Square made the game, yet Nintendo got to keep most of the profit from it (part of the reason why Square completely ditched Nintendo during the PlayStation/Nintendo 64 era).

Heck, Square has developed several games with Mario characters since then (Itadaki Street DS, Mario Hoops 3-on-3, Fortune Street, and Mario Sports Mix), and of all of those games the only reference they chose to give Super Mario RPG was a remix of the Mushroom Kingdom theme from Super Mario RPG in Itadaki Street DS and Mario Sports Mix.

 

[trojanpooh]

Hey guys - you might hate this idea, so feel free to yell at me, but what if the PM team added a fourth character that had Falco's Brawl moveset? Like Peppy or something.

I'm only bringing it up because every now and then, I see people bemoan the fact that Falco was "recloned", as they put it haha. I don't actually care myself, cause I've never really gotten into any of the spacies, but Peppy's a pretty cool guy and I bet there were some things about that moveset that would've been interesting, if PM tweaked them. Kicking around a shine seems like it could have a lot of potential...

Think it's worth a slot? Or are you ready to rip me apart for bringing this up?

The reason I'm going to give this idea a nay is honestly, Star Fox has enough characters as is and Fox has enough derivative characters as is. I'd much rather see the clone engine be used to breath new life into characters who don't have a counterpart yet. Specifically Pichu and Bowser Jr, but the specifics aren't whats important here. It's the basic concept of fleshing out the roster where it's needed (from a gameplay perspective, not from a "rep" perspective. PM is a mod, it isn't their job to represent Nintendo history) and the spacie moveset archetype isn't it.

Plus Brawl Falco sucked compared to Melee Falco. Peppy would require a complete overhaul to work in the Melee environment so they'd be building a character on the premise that some random Brawl fans want him to throw the reflector because it's uniqueness for uniqueness's sake.

 

[Chzrm3]

I see. How much say will fan input have in terms of what characters get added?

The sense I got from cmart's answer is that there hasn't been a decision yet. I'd bet there's a pretty big discussion going on in the PMBR board right now about whether or not they're going to add any of their own characters. And if I know this community, then it's probably a bit heated! :D

I'd imagine that there are probably people on the team who would love to add brand-new characters, and then there are people on the team who think that idea's completely out of scope for the mod.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

There was a lot of bad blood between Nintendo and Square regarding Super Mario RPG. Square made the game, yet Nintendo got to keep most of the profit from it (part of the reason why Square completely ditched Nintendo during the PlayStation/Nintendo 64 era).

Heck, Square has developed several games with Mario characters since then (Itadaki Street DS, Mario Hoops 3-on-3, Fortune Street, and Mario Sports Mix), and of all of those games the only reference they chose to give Super Mario RPG was a remix of the Mushroom Kingdom theme from Super Mario RPG in Itadaki Street DS and Mario Sports Mix.

Fortune Street only used Dragon Quest characters, so it was made by the Enix division not the Square one.

Other than that, it's sad to learn that Square didn't get their due in regards to SMRPG...

 

[ChronoBound]

Fortune Street only used Dragon Quest characters, so it was made by the Enix division not the Square one.

Other than that, it's sad to learn that Square didn't get their due in regards to SMRPG...

Yeah, but they still used a piece of Super Mario RPG content in it (the Mushroom Kingdom track). In the two Mario games with Final Fantasy characters in them (Mario Hoops and Mario Sports Mix), there was no referencing of Super Mario RPG.

 

[Xebenkeck]

The funniest thing about the Geno thing to me is that when you look at SMRPG's characters, Mallow is probably more important to the game then Geno is.(Both are important don't get me wrong)

And personally I think Mallow would make a more interesting character anyways with talents like, HP Rain, Snowy, Shocker, Star rain, froggy stick and crash symbols.

ehhhh, /opinion.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I wanna nominate:

Isaac
King K.Rool
Dixie Kong

 

[XalchemistX]

Dark for PM!

 

[Phaiyte]

But Geno sucks **** in that game and Mallow doesn't. Literally the worst party member in the game lol

 

[Xebenkeck]

You clearly dont know about the 9999 dmg glitch on Geno Whirl lol.



Also I think Claus/Masked Man would be a fairly feasible character to implement.

He has a lot of elements of other characters you could pull from. The cape/bat wings combined with the sword would make it easy to pull moves from Metaknight, while the canon arm from Samus. Not to mention he is Lucas' twin so pulling moves off Lucas and Ness would also work. Also for those wondering, there is a sticker of Claus in the game, so he is licensed in Brawl.

I know people are going to say "god 3 EB chars" but in terms of a "unique" character being added I would rank him up there with the best of them. Not to mention he is apart of Mother 3 godlike story.

 

[loganhogan]

The funniest thing about the Geno thing to me is that when you look at SMRPG's characters, Mallow is probably more important to the game then Geno is.(Both are important don't get me wrong)

And personally I think Mallow would make a more interesting character anyways with talents like, HP Rain, Snowy, Shocker, Star rain, froggy stick and crash symbols.

ehhhh, /opinion.

I also found Mallow more interesting than Geno.

 

[Phaiyte]

You clearly dont know about the 9999 dmg glitch on Geno Whirl lol.

It's not a glitch and it doesn't work on bosses. 9999 damage is completely pointless otherwise. Worrying only about potential damage is the hugest noob trap in every game in the whole universe. His stat boosts are cool but all of the higher level bosses have Shredder which negates any positive status effects, all of his skills cost more fp and do less damage than Mallow and equipping that trinket that cuts fp costs in half is a total waste, he actually has the worst stat allocation in the game and because of that he has nothing really going for him other than the fact that he can 1HKO Exor and that's it.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Yes! And then Nintendo can still not put him in Smash Bros.

Lol yes they are idiots. They should use geno for so many things. He should have his own game for gods sake.

 

[GuruKid]

Are Peach's unique turnips, beam sword, Mr Saturn, ect. considered separate articles? What about G&W spawning apples, Mr Freeze, ect.? Are the items even articles? Which character has the most usable articles?

Each item Peach pulls out with her DownB is considered a common item and is not considered a character-specific article. Her special allows her to summon and control the items in special ways but they're not part of her file; their files are located separately. If you were to edit the turnip/sword/Mr. Saturn files and made a clone of Peach the clone's special would pull the exact same item... same model, same stats, everything. There is unfortunately no known way to "clone" items at the moment.

This principle applies to Diddy's bananas, Link's/Toon Link's bombs... even Snake's grenades and Rob's Gyro are actually items and not proper articles, though they use other articles to summon or control them in unique ways. Wild guess but this is probably because other characters can interact with them by grabbing and throwing them, so they needed to be coded separately to function when under ownership of other characters.

Off the top of my head Snake likely has the most articles. But as I mentioned in the other thread, when it comes to articles it's not the number that's important but how flexible each article is to work with; you can have an article that for seemingly unknown reasons won't move a certain direction or can't shoot at a certain angle, and if ASM or module editing proves unsuccessful then you either gotta adapt to that limitation or seek a more suitable clone candidate if you're persistent with the moveset you envision.

 

[Solbliminal]

So yeah, after prolonged exposure to the Social Thread......

½Vote:
-Paper Mario (removing him from my full vote)
-Waluigi
-Daroach
-Sukapon

Full Vote:
-Blaze the Cat

Come at me h8rs.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'd also like Impa, from Zelda Skyward Sword. Thinking she'd play quite like a combination of Sheik and Lucario, maybe a bit of Falco even.

 

[profetylen]

+1:
Ganondorf / Black shadow
Pichu
Plusle & Minun
Skapon

 

[turtletank]

+1 Vote:
-Issac
-Ridley
-Dixie Kong
-Tom Nook

-1 Vote
-Black Shadow/ Ganondorf
-Paper Mario
-Bowser Jr.

My reasoning here is that some franchises already have plenty of representation, while others have little/none.
Also the whole Black Shadow/ Ganondorf thing is too radical for my liking. Less controversy is preferred.

 

[Fortress]

(Wait, am I in the right thread? Had a bunch of updated tabs opened, saw "Clone Engine Character..." and swore I was in the right one...)

Here are a few ideas that I've been thinking up recently.

ZANT (LoZ: Twilight Princess)
(Clone candidate: Lucario, Zelda)

EDIT: Not sure why I originally gave a traction of Luigi-esque levels when I meant to type Link.

Core Mechanics: Ever the dramatic character, Zant's unique flair would be felt in everything he does, from idles, to attacks, to dashing and falling. Imagine Voldo, from Soul Calibur., in terms of animations. Zant would be quite the unique character, with a higher level of ground control while at the same time being a floatier character with solid aerial control to take advantage of powerful aerials. A wielder of terrible dark magic, Zant would be a force to be feared from a range, relying on good use of spacing to quickly defeat his opponents.

Physics: Being a floaty member of the cast, Zant would have to beware of heavy hitters above all else. Like a paper tiger, he can dish out the damage, but can't take much himself. However, Zant has superb control on the ground, with a running speed close to but below Mario's and traction close to Link's. His prowess on the ground, however, is unmatched by his abilities in the air! Zant has air control similar to that of Jigglypuff and Wario, with a falling speed matching Luigi's. Difficult to shothop with, as a result, utilizing his hard-hitting aerials will prove to be a challenge.

Attacks: With a blend of physical finesse and potent magical abilities, Zant has attacks that allow him to attack from a range, or at a long reach when up close.

SPECIALS

Neutral: Zant fires a small ball of dark energy at the opponent, dealing about 2% damage per hit. They do not stun or induce knockback, and can fire rapidly with quick taps of the B button; similar to Fox's laser.

Forward: Zant lunges forward while spinning with his blades, repelling projectiles, and knocking opponents up into the air above him. A fast attack with high ending lag. This attack could also aid in Zant's recovery, but would leave him helpless afterwards.

Up: Zant envelops himself in dark magic, teleporting a short distance, becoming invincible for the duration of the attack.

Down: Zant brings his blades down two times, dealing heavy damage while knocking the opponent away with slow strikes. Inputting down-b multiple times will continue the attack, similar to Donkey Kong's down-special.

NORMALS

Jab: Strikes awkwardly and haphazardly, appearing to be doing more than flailing madly. The jab would cycle on until the inputs stop, and the attack itself would be weak with low knockback.

Dash Attack: Zant chops and hacks while stumbling forward, similar to Luigi's dashing attack.

F-Tilt: Crosses his blades in a scissoring motion, with diagonal-upward knockback away from him.

U-Tilt: Zant releases quick bursts of energy above him, dealing light damage over a short time, potentially holding the opponent in place.

D-Tilt: Shoots a bolt of energy at the ground in front of him, bouncing the opponent on an upward trajectory and slightly away.

Aerials

N-Air: Zant spins in a pinwheel manner, using magic and his blades to push opponents away and deal moderate damage. An attack with a slower startup; vulnerable before the attacking frames start, but otherwise an effective finisher.

U-Air: Zant flips over, kicking four times to carry the opponent upward. Picture Snake's D-air, but the opposite direction. Fast, weak, and with decent knockback, it can be used to extend Zant's aerial combos.

D-Air: Diving head-first with blades pointed toward the ground, Zant propels himself at the ground in a drilling motion to drag his opponent with him. Effective in lifting the opponent off of the ground, but dangerous off-stage.

F-Air: A fast sweep of his long arms, Zant bats the opponent up and away. With less ending and startup lag than his other aerials, Zant's F-Air is effective in his combo game.

B-Air: Zant kicks backwards, unleashing a blast of energy that propels him forward, and knocks the opponent away.

Grabs

U-Throw: Lifts the opponent above himself, and jabs multiple times with his blade, sending them upward into the air.

F-Throw: Launches the opponent with a magical blast.

B-Throw: Ditto, but with a kick.

D-Throw: Quickly stomps repeatedly over an opponent. Sends the opponent forward and upward.

Anyway, that's really about all I have in terms of Zant. Just a thought I had. I'm trying to think up the smashes at the moment, but know they'd have more of a magical inclination than a physical one.

 

[AustarusIV]

Well, after lurking on this thread long enough...

+1 Vote:
- Ridley: I'm still on the fence about whether the Miiverse post is nothing more than a tease or an outright deconfirmation, but I'm still voting for the guy. He's been a favorite choice of mine ever since I saw him in the Introduction FMV to Melee, and I believe he would be to Project M like Sonic was to Brawl. Over the years I've come to realize that Sakurai isn't much of a fan of Metroid and that he couldn't care less about representing it properly. Also, we've got to have some genuine bad guys.
- King K. Rool: Yeah, I know he seems likelier than Ridley by this point, but even then he has a lot of competition with Dixie Kong, who was already indicated to be playable at one point in Brawl. I have the feeling that Dixie is going to get in over him in SSB4.
- Sami: I've played some of the Wars series, and I think Sami would be great choice for inclusion. As ChronoBound said, she could be heavily inspired by Snake and could borrow quite a bit from his moveset.
- Ganondorf/Black Shadow: Nothing much said aside from the fact that Ganondorf should actually play like the boss he is in The Legend of Zelda.

1/2 Vote:
- Dark Samus: Another favorite of mine, but if I had to choose between her and Ridley, it would be Ridley. If Ridley does indeed make it into SSB4's roster, than I'm changing my vote to a +1.
- Lyn: She seems like an interesting character to play as, but I think Fire Emblem already has enough playable characters.

-1 Vote:
- Dixie Kong: I think she's a given for SSB4.
- Krystal: Star Fox already has WAAAYY too many characters for what's essentially a dead series. No offense to any actual Star Fox fans out there.

 

[Chzrm3]

Oh yeah, if it doesn't mess up the polling I'd like to add +1 for Tom Nook too.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

If this is still open to voting, I would like to vote. I'd really love for Skull Kid to get in, but I doubt he would be able to get the kind of moveset I want due to the limitations of the clone engine.

five votes for Ganondorf decloned.

 

[ChronoBound]

I am going to comment on Tom Nook.

I mentioned earlier on the Marth/Roy principle, and how Sami (or Lip) could fill in the shoes to that type of character.

While Tom Nook does not fit in for that arche-type, there is a similar arch-type, which is with Pokemon Trainer (Squirtle, Ivysaur, Charizard). Basically, a character that is really well known and well-liked, yet uncommonly requested and would be a surprise to get in (albeit a pleasant surprise).

I think Tom Nook would make a good choice. He could give the Animal Crossing franchise playable representation in Project M, and it would be interesting to see the Project M's team take on a playable Animal Crossing character compared with Sakurai's take.

Though like with Lip, the problem would be that he would have to be a character made from the ground up, though in his favor he has a relatively simplistic model, and wouldn't need a voice (maybe import some of the Animal Crossing animal giberish sound effects for a taunt or two).

Either way, I think one of the spots should be a more unconventional character choice that represents a long running Nintendo franchise without a playable character in Smash Bros (or at least Brawl/Project M). Sami, Tom Nook, and Lip would all be good choices for this.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I'm gonna vote for Impa as a Sheik clone, but with her own different statistics. She'd be taller, a better jumper and a fast faller, yet a little slower but with some better finishers. Her attacks could have magic / Aura like effect on some moves, like Zelda, Lucario, Ness and Lucas. Maybe even with the purple flames, like Ganondorf and Mewtwo (she was Sage of Shadow in Ocarina of Time).

Her Neutral B could be a Magic Orb attack, charging like Sheik's Needles, but works like a chargeup PK Freeze (Lucas PM version).

Down B could be a barrier attack that builds up power over time, like Wario's vBrawl Down B. At full power, the barrier could temporary stun an opponent and do a ~10% damage. Move comes from this cutscene in Skyward Sword: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hJBMUyekvhk . Should also block (perhaps reflect when perfectly timed?) smaller projectiles as lasers.

Some other moves I'd change from Sheik's moveset:

-F Tilt is now a double palm pushing attack with decently high damage. Not suitable for follow ups, but a good move to do damage with, like Snake's vBrawl F Tilt.
-Up Smash is now a strong kungfu kick upwards, like vBrawl's Ganondorf, but faster, and due to her long legs, better range.
-Her jab combo should be more like Lucario's than Sheik's.
-Her Chain should be able to stun on sweetspot, but has shorter range. Could also be changed for another Sheikah-like move, or something involving shadows.

Pic:

Spoiler

Why I think she should be considered:

-Another clone of a Melee Top Tier, which would make her popular with the PM crowd, like Roy. And of coarse Falco.
-An offensive character who can go all in, but offers a defensive playstyle to with the Barrier.
-Decently easy to program, her Skyward Sword model with some polishes would already work well.
-Has a small fan following.
-Would be far better received as a clone than Young Link would.
-Veteran in the Zelda series with quite some story-involvement in Skyward Sword.

Cons:

-Another Zelda character that is a clone (but at least isn't Young Link)

 

[ChronoBound]

Unfortunately Diddy, Impa does not qualify for Project M since one of the qualifications is that the character needs to have made some sort of appearance in Brawl.

The only other dis-qualifier is that they won't add in newcomers already confirmed for Smash 4 (which only disqualifies the Villager, considering both Mega Man and Wii Fit Trainer both did not appear at all in Brawl).

 

[Anti Guy]

I'm gonna vote for Impa

For all the Zelda ideas out there... Zant, Midna, Toon XXX, Tetra, Ghirahim... sidekick/villain character who only appears in ONE GAME... I think this is actually a great idea. Of all the Zelda characters, Impa is one of the only other recurring characters (although her form and shape is often different).

There's only one major problem... she doesn't appear in Brawl at all.

Edit: Damn, got ninjad

 

[Xebenkeck]

Even though the Villager isn't a clone engine possibility, I'm still going to replace his existing model on smashville with this.

 

[splat]

For all the Zelda ideas out there... Zant, Midna, Toon XXX, Tetra, Ghirahim... sidekick/villain character who only appears in ONE GAME... I think this is actually a great idea. Of all the Zelda characters, Impa is one of the only other recurring characters (although her form and shape is often different).

There's only one major problem... she doesn't appear in Brawl at all.

I tell you, Tingle is the only option for Zelda. And what an option he is.

 

[AnOkayDM]

No.

No Tingle.

I still have minus votes, I believe. I'm giving one to Tingle.

 

[trojanpooh]

Tingle would be a great pick for Smash Bros, but I can't imagine the clone engine doing it justice. I can't see him being anything less than totally unique and the clone engine characters are derivative of old members.

 

[XalchemistX]

So it looks like Isaac and Ridley has a high chance of being one of the 5 extra characters left in PM

 

[trojanpooh]

So it looks like Isaac and Ridley has a high chance of being one of the 5 extra characters left in PM

No, it looks like a handful of people in this thread want Isaac and Ridley to be in PM, don't get the two confused. In the end the PMBR are still going to pick who they want to do, keeping in mind the limitations of the clone engine. The population of this thread is a small fraction of the people active on the PM forums let alone the entire PM fanbase. Don't take the votes as scripture because ultimately you never know what is going to happen.

Edit: Also we don't even know if the PMBR is going to include 5 more characters, they may stop at a handful or even just leave it at Roy and Mewtwo.

 

[Anti Guy]

No, it looks like a handful of people in this thread want Isaac and Ridley to be in PM, don't get the two confused. In the end the PMBR are still going to pick who they want to do, keeping in mind the limitations of the clone engine. The population of this thread is a small fraction of the people active on the PM forums let alone the entire PM fanbase. Don't take the votes as scripture because ultimately you never know what is going to happen.

Edit: Also we don't even know if the PMBR is going to include 5 more characters, they may stop at a handful or even just leave it at Roy and Mewtwo.

I wouldn't say 40+ people is a "handful"

 

[Kally Wally]

I would. 40woulds

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

So why is there the limitation of the character having had to appear in brawl?