New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[Fortress]

Yeah, I love the idea of Nook being pulled UP to an opponent. His neutral special will need some more discussion, but that was an excellent start.

 

[820]

If you get a chance later and are willing, I'd like to hear more about your moveset ideas, with pictures where possible. It sounds promising!

I'll try my best. And as Fortress said, the neutral may need more work, I think it could be made something more "special", but it's function as a spacing push back is something I'd like to keep.

This Nook moveset will probably be slightly annoying to play against, but Itthink that fits his character.

 

[PseudoTypical]

I'll try my best. And as Fortress said, the neutral may need more work, I think it could be made something more "special", but it's function as a spacing push back is something I'd like to keep.

This Nook moveset will probably be slightly annoying to play against, but Itthink that fits his character.

Yeah. It was just a rough draft, although an effective spacing tool sounds interesting (so long as it's better than vBrawl Mario's FLUDD, that is).

I think measures should be taken to make him fun for both sides, but that's something that can develop as the ideas become more fleshed out.

 

[Fortress]

If Nook doesn't pan out, there's always Resetti.

Press A to scream.
Perform a special to scream.
Pause the game to scream.
Turn off the Wii to scream.

Go to remove P:M from your SD card?
Nope.
Only a Resetti picture and a .wav of him screaming.

 

[Chzrm3]

K. K. Slider, too, if you want a music/sound-based fighter. Slamming his guitar on the ground to send out shockwaves, bashing people over the head with it... actually this sounds really violent, and doesn't fit K.K.'s personality at all! O_O NVM

But I feel like the PM guys could pull Nook off really well, for sure. He should totally have a grab like Wario, where when he hits people bells come out.

OO and Nook's down-throw should be he turns them over and shakes them by their ankles for a little bit, as if he's shaking them down.

Yeah, Nook as an angry loan shark... ROFL this is too funny.

 

[Fortress]

OO and Nook's down-throw should be he turns them over and shakes them by their ankles for a little bit, as if he's shaking them down.

Yeah, Nook as an angry loan shark... ROFL this is too funny.

THIS *smack* IS WHAT *smack* HAPPENS *smack* WHEN YOU DON'T *smack* PAY UP *smack* STUPID KID *smack*

Lucas cries.

End scene.

 

[AnOkayDM]

For Nook's Final Smash he should literally drop a house on the stage and crush everyone.

Crippling Debt.

 

[Solbliminal]

I actually would envision Tom Nook's Down-B special to throw an item leaf into the air, press command again and it transforms into a furniture item to fall on someone. It would be great for set-ups.

His standard attacks can do with store devices and his handy tool shed items he uses to rebuild your house and paint your roof even if you don't want him to, which he forces you back into debt with.

One of his attacks needs to be him hard smashing the opponent with his register. Every time he hits you with his register, it needs to make the spending bells sound from when you buy an item.

(Derp. Hero beat me to the punchline.) His final Smash, he can drop a house on someone. He then proceed to paint the roof and total up your wages while you take damage from having to file bankruptcy as you walk out of the house crying.

------

And if all else fails, Super Tortimer for P:M since he is apparently an NES classic (Such a harsh April Fools prank).

 

[AnOkayDM]

And if all else fails, Super Tortimer for P:M since my he is apparently an NES classic (Such a harsh April Fools prank).

Horf horf horf.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

This Nook moveset will probably be slightly annoying to play against, but Itthink that fits his character.

Nook doesn't have to be annoying so much as he has to be methodical and patient.

I see Tom Nook as a character that takes advantage of your mistakes and punishes accordingly.

I mean, you didn't have to take out a loan in Animal Crossing. The player's character should have had a better plan than hopping on a train and hoping for the best, that's just thoughtless. Nook certainly sets up the bait (fact: Nook uses Rover to attract naive individuals to his town so he can send them spiraling down into debt), but ultimately the character made the mistake and Nook took advantage of their reckless actions.

That's the mindset I have in thinking on how Nook should be designed. A bait-and-punish/patient style doesn't necessarily mean he has to play like Snake or Ivysaur. Nook simply needs the tools to keep the opponent at bay and punish any mistakes.

[collapse=Also, the best taunt ever]

[/collapse]

 

[AnOkayDM]

One of his taunts should be to flip a Bell up in the air and snatch it. Then it makes a Bell noise as he puts it away.

 

[Solbliminal]

His Up-B could be the financial success of his growing store.

 

[820]

Okay, here's my go at a fully fleshed out Nook, using Ivy as a base for articles:

UP-B: Fishing Rod tether. Nook pulls uses the hook on the rod and shoots it up at a 75 or so degree angle. Works as a tether recovery. If it connects with an airborne opponent, Nook is launched up towards them. This will set up for aerial combos and give Nook a unique positional tool.

SIDE-B: Nook throws an envelope out in a manner similar to Ivy's razor leaf. This will have a slightly more upward trajectory, meant to take on shorthops and platforms as well as keep approachers at bay.

DOWN-B: Nook throws a pitfall straight down. When grounded this will just put it on the ground, but when in the air it's a lethal projectile strike. The animation for this would be lengthy, so using it off stage would be a risk.

NEUTRAL-B: While I'd love a good furniture smack, I'm fairly certain this is all the articles Ivy has.So, depending on what's possible, the animation was differ. What is important is the function, and it would work as a push back attack that doesn't do any damage, but is more fore things like spacing. So you can push a person into a pitfall, or follow up with an envelope to keep them away.

SMASHES:
Up- Nook puts the big head of his to use and swings it above him a la Mario. Would probably be his best and only truly good killing move.
Forward- Headbuyts ahead. Decent damage and good knockback, the second killing move in his arsenal, and it's really only above average.
Down- Nook whips his head at the opponent's legs. Pops them up slightly for some combo potential.

TILTS:
Up- An average uppecut. Pops the opponent up.
Forward- A swift backhand. Good knockback for a tilt.
Down- Kicks forward quickly, aiming for what would be the shins. Average down-tilt.

AERIALS:
Up: A quick upwards headbutt. Works very much like Mario's U-Air, where it links together. Pretty much the main move that the Up-B sets up for.
Forward: A quick, slash like punch. Keeps the opponent fairly close for more hits.
Back: Nook goes full horizontal, sticking both his legs behind him/ Long hit-box, decent damage.
Down: Nook does a downward flip, with his head being the hitbox. Spikes when at the lowest point.
Neutral: Nook spins around in the air for a basic muli-hit Nair.

Nook would play mostly as a spacing/punish character. His specials all work with controlling movement of others or moving Nook himself, so he can always be at an advantage in positional play. His smashes are his only true kill moves on the ground and are still somewhat weak, and his tilts are generally fairly weak because if you get that close to him on the ground he probably did something wrong anyways. His aerials are pretty quick attacks, used to rack up damage for quick, brutal punishes and small combo chains. Realistically, his best kill options would be gimps in which the Nook player was in the right place to prevent a recovery.

He's be on the lighter side, say around Pikachu, and would be average speed, say around Mario. His small stature would play to his positional advantage.

 

[Solbliminal]

-moveset-

Not to offend, but I honestly feel that sounds a bit too plain. I personally feel it lacks actual reference to the character. It was a nice read, but it just wasn't what I was expecting.

 

[820]

Not to offend, but I honestly feel that sounds a bit too plain. I personally feel it lacks actual reference to the character. It was a nice read, but it just wasn't what I was expecting.

The problem comes with the lack of articles. I can't just give Nook a bunch of stuff to pull out because I'm basing it off of Ivy who never pulls out a sword or anything, This is a P:M moveset, so I have to take into account what the PMBR can realistically do. If this was form Smash 4, sure Nook would pull out different furniture for every attack, but as of right now that's just not possible.

 

[PseudoTypical]

The problem comes with the lack of articles. I can't just give Nook a bunch of stuff to pull out because I'm basing it off of Ivy who never pulls out a sword or anything, This is a P:M moveset, so I have to take into account what the PMBR can realistically do. If this was form Smash 4, sure Nook would pull out different furniture for every attack, but as of right now that's just not possible.

Yeah, this is unfortunate, but I think you're right. What's a character with a lot of articles? Maybe they can just try and copy over certain attributes from Ivysaur while basing it on that character.

 

[cmart]

There's a difference between articles, anchored articles, and disjointed hitboxes. For example, ZSS' whip is an anchored article, but Marth's sword is not - it just doesn't have hurtboxes (making it disjointed). A more relevant example would be Pit, who has two swords in multiple configurations (each configuration is a seperate model) a bow, and a shield. NONE of those are articles, but Pit also has articles (his arrows). For even more eye-raising, Squirtle's shades are simply an anchored gfx with no duration.

Why'd I type all that? It seems like you think pulling a sword out would require an article, but if it's just a model then you can summon/desummon it at-will without having to worry about articles. Now don't go crazy, characters only have a number of different model swaps they can do. You could stretch that out by making some simple objects into gfx and tying them to a bone during the relevant animation.

tl;dr Your "issue" isn't a legit deterrent.

 

[820]

There's a difference between articles, anchored articles, and disjointed hitboxes. For example, ZSS' whip is an anchored article, but Marth's sword is not - it just doesn't have hurtboxes (making it disjointed). A more relevant example would be Pit, who has two swords in multiple configurations (each configuration is a seperate model) a bow, and a shield. NONE of those are articles, but Pit also has articles (his arrows). For even more eye-raising, Squirtle's shades are simply an anchored gfx with no duration.

Why'd I type all that? It seems like you think pulling a sword out would require an article, but if it's just a model then you can summon/desummon it at-will without having to worry about articles. Now don't go crazy, characters only have a number of different model swaps they can do. You could stretch that out by making some simple objects into gfx and tying them to a bone during the relevant animation.

tl;dr Your "issue" isn't a legit deterrent.

Really? Oh, awesome. I can change some of the animations then, later. What's most important to me is the move's function usually. Any suggestions then?

 

[cmart]

Haha not really - I'm just here to answer technical concerns like that. I wouldn't go GnW crazy with pulling objects out of hammer space, but a couple moves that use additional items would be doable.

 

[Chzrm3]

Hey guys - you might hate this idea, so feel free to yell at me, but what if the PM team added a fourth character that had Falco's Brawl moveset? Like Peppy or something.

I'm only bringing it up because every now and then, I see people bemoan the fact that Falco was "recloned", as they put it haha. I don't actually care myself, cause I've never really gotten into any of the spacies, but Peppy's a pretty cool guy and I bet there were some things about that moveset that would've been interesting, if PM tweaked them. Kicking around a shine seems like it could have a lot of potential...

Think it's worth a slot? Or are you ready to rip me apart for bringing this up?

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Think it's worth a slot? Or are you ready to rip me apart for bringing this up?

I don't think I'd be too upset to see it return, but it's pretty unnecessary all things considered given all of the other possibilities of the clone engine (Tom Nook!).

In general, people seem fairly opposed to another spacie being added to the roster, and I'm not sure any other Star Fox character would really fit Brawl Falco's moveset. Peppy especially wouldn't make a lot of sense for it in my mind.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to Peppy being added to the roster. I would honestly prefer him to Krystal, and I wouldn't picture him playing in a similar fashion to the other spacies, so that's neat in its own right.

Edit: I'm working on developing a moveset for Tom Nook given the clarifiactions from cmart. I'll get back to you guys soon with my thoughts if I manage to come up with anything good.

 

[Chzrm3]

I don't think I'd be too upset to see it return, but it's pretty unnecessary all things considered given all of the other possibilities of the clone engine (Tom Nook!).

In general, people seem fairly opposed to another spacie being added to the roster, and I'm not sure any other Star Fox character would really fit Brawl Falco's moveset. Peppy especially wouldn't make a lot of sense for it in my mind.

That said, I wouldn't be opposed to Peppy being added to the roster. I would honestly prefer him to Krystal, and I wouldn't picture him playing in a similar fashion to the other spacies, so that's neat in its own right.

That's fair. : D And yeah, I biased-ly picked Peppy because he's my favorite, haha. If he ever made it in I'd be pumped.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Slightly changing my vote again, sorry Anti Guy.

Add a +1/2 vote for Peppy Hare

 

[ChronoBound]

I may make a separate thread for this to get more attention.

However, these two questions have never been answered:
1. Have you guys decided on any characters yet?
2. When is going to be the cut off date for deciding which characters to add?

 

[Solbliminal]

The problem comes with the lack of articles. I can't just give Nook a bunch of stuff to pull out because I'm basing it off of Ivy who never pulls out a sword or anything, This is a P:M moveset, so I have to take into account what the PMBR can realistically do. If this was form Smash 4, sure Nook would pull out different furniture for every attack, but as of right now that's just not possible.

I'm aware of the restrictions. That doesn't change my statement. When designing a characters moveset, you always have to take into account what makes a character memorable. Ex: Kirby's copy power, Sonic's spindash and speed, Link's adventure arsenal, ect.

Apply that logic here. What makes Tom Nook memorable? He is your loan shark landlord and a small business manager / salesman of the local item and tools shop. Because of these two things, I can immediately assume his fighting style would revolve around "money and supplies". Attacking with bells bags or a cash register are what comes to mind when I think of the type of character he is. To a lesser degree, he is known for painting your roof and upgrading your house. So with that I could assume he can use paint, paint rollers, hammers, saws, power tools, ect. Just take your pick. If you really want to hit nostalgia, his strongest smash could be the hitting the opponent with the golden villager statue that was given to players for completion.

These are just some ideas. They don't all have to be used. Especially not together like a mess of articles. Since cmart pointed out more items are doable, play around with some more ideas. As for what I think, this is what I can safely say his moveset should represent:

-His landlord, loan shark attitude portrayed with money based attacks.
-His role as a shop owner portrayed through an item or two, or even the shop itself if possible. (One tool and one furniture leaf)
-His know-how of building houses with attacks that involve the tools necessary for that job.

Broken down, you don't use any more than really 3 or 4 items here. I hope this was helpful in some way.

 

[cmart]

I may make a separate thread for this to get more attention.

However, these two questions have never been answered:
1. Have you guys decided on any characters yet?
2. When is going to be the cut off date for deciding which characters to add?

You may as well stop asking Chrono - these are questions no one on the team can or will anawer.

 

[ChronoBound]

You may as well stop asking Chrono - these are questions no one on the team can or will anawer.

I see. How much say will fan input have in terms of what characters get added?

For example, there exists a great deal of concern that Ridley is going to be de-confirmed for Smash 4. If that happens, Ridley is going to absolutely blow away all the other newcomer choices for Project M in terms of requests (he is already basically tied with Isaac as the most wanted character).

In that case, are you leaving one spot "on hold"?

If Ridley is de-confirmed for Smash 4, he will probably never get into Smash Bros., and at this point Project M will be the only option left for a playable version of the character.

I really wish I had some influence or sway outside the speculation sphere of the fanbase, because I believe this is a VERY big issue.

Ridley will very easily become to Project M as Sonic was to Brawl if he is de-confirmed. Already Ridley rivals the top spot for requests for newcomers for Project M.

Anyone that understands just how incredibly high the level of demand there was for Sonic during the pre-Brawl epoch, will understand this analogy.

 

[Solbliminal]

I see. How much say will fan input have in terms of what characters get added?

For example, there exists a great deal of concern that Ridley is going to be de-confirmed for Smash 4. If that happens, Ridley is going to absolutely blow away all the other newcomer choices for Project M in terms of requests (he is already basically tied with Isaac as the most wanted character).

In that case, are you leaving one spot "on hold"?

If Ridley is de-confirmed for Smash 4, he will probably never get into Smash Bros., and at this point Project M will be the only option left for a playable version of the character.

I really wish I had some influence or sway outside the speculation sphere of the fanbase, because I believe this is a VERY big issue.

Ridley will very easily become to Project M as Sonic was to Brawl if he is de-confirmed. Already Ridley rivals the top spot for requests for newcomers for Project M.

Anyone that understands just how incredibly high the level of demand there was for Sonic during the pre-Brawl epoch, will understand this analogy.

I understand completely.

 

[820]

I'm aware of the restrictions. That doesn't change my statement. When designing a characters moveset, you always have to take into account what makes a character memorable. Ex: Kirby's copy power, Sonic's spindash and speed, Link's adventure arsenal, ect.

Apply that logic here. What makes Tom Nook memorable? He is your loan shark landlord and a small business manager / salesman of the local item and tools shop. Because of these two things, I can immediately assume his fighting style would revolve around "money and supplies". Attacking with bells bags or a cash register are what comes to mind when I think of the type of character he is. To a lesser degree, he is known for painting your roof and upgrading your house. So with that I could assume he can use paint, paint rollers, hammers, saws, power tools, ect. Just take your pick. If you really want to hit nostalgia, his strongest smash could be the hitting the opponent with the golden villager statue that was given to players for completion.

These are just some ideas. They don't all have to be used. Especially not together like a mess of articles. Since cmart pointed out more items are doable, play around with some more ideas. As for what I think, this is what I can safely say his moveset should represent:

-His landlord, loan shark attitude portrayed with money based attacks.
-His role as a shop owner portrayed through an item or two, or even the shop itself if possible. (One tool and one furniture leaf)
-His know-how of building houses with attacks that involve the tools necessary for that job.

Broken down, you don't use any more than really 3 or 4 items here. I hope this was helpful in some way.

I plan on revising things. I said that above. I was under the impressionthat any and all extra items were articles. Now that I know that's not the case, all of his attacks can be made more unique. Honestly though, when I make a moveset I'm focusing much more on how certain attacks function rather than aesthetics.

 

[F. Blue]

Are Peach's unique turnips, beam sword, Mr Saturn, ect. considered separate articles? What about G&W spawning apples, Mr Freeze, ect.? Are the items even articles? Which character has the most usable articles?

 

[ChronoBound]

I understand completely.

There is also Mega Man prior to Smash 4's unveil that had a massive amount of requests.

Really, the only Nintendo character left that has that kind of pull left is Ridley.

I am pessimistic about him showing up for both Smash 4 and Project M, unfortunately.

I do think though if Ridley is de-confirmed on the Dojo, that the sheer amount of requests may force the team to give one of their planned spots to Ridley (kind of like how Sakurai had the entire roster for Brawl planned back in 2005, and the only addition he ended up making was Sonic which was druing 2007).

Considering the Pyrosphere was revealed early on as a stage, I think the longest Sakurai could keep from the truth as to whether or not Ridley is a stage hazard is June 2014 (the next public event where a demo for Smash 4 could be available). However, that is the latest date. I think more likely Sakurai will coincide the announcement to a possible stage hazard Ridley with a possible game release anniversary (like he has done with other veteran confirmations and new information tidbits), possibly in March to coincide with the 20th anniversary of Super Metroid's release.

 

[Diddy Kong]

I doubt Ridley would bring that many characters to P:M as you think Chrono... It might bring YOU there, but Project M has a whole different sort of fanbase (and a very specific-one) than all these guys shouting for Ridley in Smash on internet forums. Not that I´m against it, but there´s far more issues to fix with Project M besides adding Ridley to the list of playable characters. He´d certainly take a lot of development time.

 

[ChronoBound]

I doubt Ridley would bring that many characters to P:M as you think Chrono... It might bring YOU there, but Project M has a whole different sort of fanbase (and a very specific-one) than all these guys shouting for Ridley in Smash on internet forums.

You are very wrong there. Very wrong.

You'll see. I'll show ya./Joker.

 

[red9rd]

There is also Mega Man prior to Smash 4's unveil that had a massive amount of requests.

Really, the only character left that has that kind of pull left is Ridley.

I am pessimistic about him showing up for both Smash 4 and Project M, unfortunately.

I do think though if Ridley is de-confirmed on the Dojo, that the sheer amount of requests may force the team to give one of their planned spots to Ridley (kind of like how Sakurai had the entire roster for Brawl planned back in 2005, and the only addition he ended up making was Sonic which was druing 2007).

Considering the Pyrosphere was revealed early on as a stage, I think the longest Sakurai could keep from the truth as to whether or not Ridley is a stage hazard is June 2014 (the next public event where a demo for Smash 4 could be available). However, that is the latest date. I think more likely Sakurai will coincide the announcement to a possible stage hazard Ridley with a possible game release anniversary (like he has done with other veteran confirmations and new information tidbits), possibly in March to coincide with the 20th anniversary of Super Metroid's release.

I can't find the quote right now but there are articles where Sakurai states Geno was the most asked for.
he gave a little tip of the hat to him in Melee by having the name Geno pop up as a random name.

 

[ChronoBound]

I can't find the quote right now but there are articles where Sakurai states Geno was the most asked for.

Sakurai has NEVER EVER brought up Geno.

 

[ChronoBound]

he gave a little tip of the hat to him in Melee by having the name Geno pop up as a random name.

I never heard of this from Geno fans either.

However, he most certainly has never mentioned Geno EVER.

 

[Solbliminal]

I plan on revising things. I said that above. I was under the impressionthat any and all extra items were articles. Now that I know that's not the case, all of his attacks can be made more unique. Honestly though, when I make a moveset I'm focusing much more on how certain attacks function rather than aesthetics.

Understandable, but as I said before. A character should represent what they are known for.

There is also Mega Man prior to Smash 4's unveil that had a massive amount of requests.

Really, the only Nintendo character left that has that kind of pull left is Ridley.

I am pessimistic about him showing up for both Smash 4 and Project M, unfortunately.

I do think though if Ridley is de-confirmed on the Dojo, that the sheer amount of requests may force the team to give one of their planned spots to Ridley (kind of like how Sakurai had the entire roster for Brawl planned back in 2005, and the only addition he ended up making was Sonic which was druing 2007).

Considering the Pyrosphere was revealed early on as a stage, I think the longest Sakurai could keep from the truth as to whether or not Ridley is a stage hazard is June 2014 (the next public event where a demo for Smash 4 could be available). However, that is the latest date. I think more likely Sakurai will coincide the announcement to a possible stage hazard Ridley with a possible game release anniversary (like he has done with other veteran confirmations and new information tidbits), possibly in March to coincide with the 20th anniversary of Super Metroid's release.

I understand how you feel in all honesty Chrono. As much as I really don't care for Ridley, I can't say he does not deserve a slot in P:M or Smash 4. But also take into account that this is a mod. What can be done within this mod is far more flexible than what Nintendo will ever do with Smash Bros. If Ridley is not in Smash 4, then there you go. For now, focus on characters that may never have a chance to shine in Smash. I did enjoy suggestions such as Lip and Tom Nook. You even put up a very convincing argument for Sami. I suggest digging up some more characters from the Brawl list an do what you have been doing. Showing support for other characters might actually get you interested in them.

One interesting character I'm actually surprised isn't on the sticker list was King Wart. I was going to suggest him. But oh well. Here are some others I think could be recognized:

-Ashley (Trace Memory)
-Ashley (Wario Ware)
-Daroach (Kirby Squeak Squad)
-Gooey (Kirby's Dreamland 3)
-Skull Kid (Majora's Mask)

Just some ideas. Probably not the best, but I do enjoy seeing others ideas on characters.

 

[Diddy Kong]

You are very wrong there. Very wrong.

You'll see. I'll show ya./Joker.

The P:M team strikes for balance. Try and keep that in mind.

 

[ChronoBound]

The P:M team strikes for balance. Try and keep that in mind.

I understand that. All characters need to be properly balanced.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

Sakurai has NEVER EVER brought up Geno.

Sakurai has mentioned Geno in passing I'm pretty sure.. He has at least acknowledged his existence lol.

Speaking of Geno... :O
I remember watching a P:M 2.6 live stream by the PMBR, and one of the back roomers were talking about how they had made a Geno mod long time ago in the BrawlVault. After that they snickered because they said now everyone's gona assume Geno is confirmed. Before I say anything else.. does Geno show up as a sticker or anything in brawl?