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Toad (as a clone, it would be easier for the Project M Backroom)
...doesn't Diddy Kong do exactly that?
I just woke up, looks like there's support for Toad even though he's a negative pick (barely)! I agree that Bowser Jr. will probably be in SSB4 so putting him in would be too risky, leaving an opportunity for Toad open. Not discrediting any talk about him of course, as a smaller faster bowser clone DOES sound neat!
Having read your comments on him, I like the movesets you all came up with, though I want to chime in with a possible moveset of my own:
Toad (as a clone, it would be easier for the Project M Backroom)
Again, his default color should be blue so as to differentiate him from Peach's Toad
Basically he could be the Wolf to Mario's Fox and Luigi's Falco. I know it's not totally accurate (Luigi and Mario have wildly different physics, different side-B's, etc.) but since Mario, Luigi and Toad were all in the New Super Mario Bros. games it can be appropriate. Basically, he'd have a different down-B (can't see him using a tornado attack like M&L) but keep Luigi's side-B. That way, all 3 could have a unique special move. Overall, save for a few of his moves, he'd have the least range but would be the fastest.
...Also, since PMBR wants to make Brawl into Melee with Project M it wouldn't be out of the question to include a second Mario clone like in Melee, as we lost Dr. Mario as a character, now a costume.
Specials:
-I say the down-B could be mushroom spores coming out in front of him as a reference to how Peach uses him. It can be like Squirtle's Bubble attack, only it would be stronger, have a little more startup lag, and cover more range.
-His own version of the fireball would be the ice ball from the newer games, and it could work like Mario's fireball trajectory wise. It could be slower than the fireball but Toad could act out of it quicker even than Mario can, so using them could be more for positioning and startups...like Wolf's new Blaster, now that I think about it.
-Toad's up-B would work like Luigi's up-B in that it only hits once, though it wouldn't be as powerful. It would go a little slower than either bro's jump punches so he wouldn't "pop" like they do. Trajectory wise it could be more diagonally oriented than Mario's. Also it wouldn't be a punch, but the powered up crouch jump from Super Mario Bros. 2. (Second to last row in the picture)
-Toad's version of Luigi's side-B could actually work like Luigi's up-B in that it can't be charged, goes straight forward, does okay damage when it hits. In a reversal of Luigi's up-B, however, it could be stronger the farther into the move you hit the opponent. Kind of like Wario's Shoulder Bash move, though obviously you don't run or jump with it.
Here's a thought...
And it's a completely ridiculous thought, but I got to get it out of my system...
Flower throwing. Toad throws a random flower, with a random effect.
Fire: Low damage, low knockback, burn effect.
Ice: Low damage, medium knockback, 1/4 freeze effect
Metal: Turns opponent Metal. (Imagine turning a recovering opponent Metal) XD
Ok, ok, I know it's not exactly a cool idea, but I just love the idea of inflicting Metal status on the opponent when he's coming back to the stage.
Well to be fair, the giant turnip was my favorite part about it, lol. So yeah.
I guess those could work too.
I was wondering if a recovery move based on the Subcon red door potion would be viable (at least as far as animation goes). It could work like Metaknight's Down+B.
I just woke up, looks like there's support for Toad even though he's a negative pick (barely)! I agree that Bowser Jr. will probably be in SSB4 so putting him in would be too risky, leaving an opportunity for Toad open. Not discrediting any talk about him of course, as a smaller faster bowser clone DOES sound neat!
Having read your comments on him, I like the movesets you all came up with, though I want to chime in with a possible moveset of my own:
Toad (as a clone, it would be easier for the Project M Backroom)
Again, his default color should be blue so as to differentiate him from Peach's Toad
Basically he could be the Wolf to Mario's Fox and Luigi's Falco. I know it's not totally accurate (Luigi and Mario have wildly different physics, different side-B's, etc.) but since Mario, Luigi and Toad were all in the New Super Mario Bros. games it can be appropriate. Basically, he'd have a different down-B (can't see him using a tornado attack like M&L) but keep Luigi's side-B. That way, all 3 could have a unique special move. Overall, save for a few of his moves, he'd have the least range but would be the fastest.
...Also, since PMBR wants to make Brawl into Melee with Project M it wouldn't be out of the question to include a second Mario clone like in Melee, as we lost Dr. Mario as a character, now a costume.
Specials:
-I say the down-B could be mushroom spores coming out in front of him as a reference to how Peach uses him. It can be like Squirtle's Bubble attack, only it would be stronger, have a little more startup lag, and cover more range.
-His own version of the fireball would be the ice ball from the newer games, and it could work like Mario's fireball trajectory wise. It could be slower than the fireball but Toad could act out of it quicker even than Mario can, so using them could be more for positioning and startups...like Wolf's new Blaster, now that I think about it.
-Toad's up-B would work like Luigi's up-B in that it only hits once, though it wouldn't be as powerful. It would go a little slower than either bro's jump punches so he wouldn't "pop" like they do. Trajectory wise it could be more diagonally oriented than Mario's. Also it wouldn't be a punch, but the powered up crouch jump from Super Mario Bros. 2. (Second to last row in the picture)
-Toad's version of Luigi's side-B could actually work like Luigi's up-B in that it can't be charged, goes straight forward, does okay damage when it hits. In a reversal of Luigi's up-B, however, it could be stronger the farther into the move you hit the opponent. Kind of like Wario's Shoulder Bash move, though obviously you don't run or jump with it.
Normals:
-Jab: Does a 3-hit combo with kicks similarly to how Lucas' jab is in vBrawl. It could also have similar knockback.
-Forward Tilt: Swings his two fists in front of him like how when he was held by Peach. Like Ivysaur's f-tilt, it would be more of a trapping attack that racks up damage, and wouldn't have a lot of knockback.
-Forward Smash: One of Toad's stronger moves, he'll swing that big ol' head in front of him, with his mushroom spores coming out for added visual effect when fully charged. Could be copied from Bowser's forward smash (though it wouldn't be that powerful)
-Dash Attack: A slide attack like Mario's dash attack, though Toad can act out of it quicker.
-Up Tilt: Like Mario's u-tilt, only Toad would use both of his arms and it would be animated similarly to Ness' u-tilt.
-Up Smash: Like a more powerful version of Mario's u-smash, though it'd have slightly slower startup.
-Down Tilt: A little kick in front of him, it would be the fastest d-tilt of the three. Could maybe use Ness' d-tilt animation.
-Down Smash: Toad does a breakdance like Mario and Luigi, though he stands on his head during the attack. Knockback wise it could have a strong initial hit that sends foes flying but would work as a multihit move with minimal knockback after that.
-Grab Pummel: Same as the Mario Brothers' (is there even a difference between those two?)
Forward Throw: Same as Mario's, but much quicker
-Back Throw: Similar to the other two's back throws but it would send at a more straight angle in contrast to Mario and Luigi's upwards ones.
-Down Throw: Same as Mario and Luigi's down throws but would release the opponent at a more diagonal angle.
-Up Throw: Same as Mario's, but quicker
Toad would move the farthest horizontally in the air, in contrast to Luigi's vertical air prowess
-Neutral Air: Toad sticks out his little foot as a sex kick. It's hard to land because of it's small range, but it sends foes at a sharp, powerful angle behind him.
-Forward Air: Like Luigi's f-air, though it would be a little easier to connect. It could also have ice particles as a visual effect, like this Toad's standard special.
-Back Air: Toad does a flip kick. It could work like Lucas' current b-air but quicker and weaker.
-Up Air: Like Mario and Luigi's but with shorter range
-Down Air: Like Mario and Luigi's d-air but quicker.
Sorry for typing a lot, but if you read everything then more power to you!
Even so, let's talk what I'm sure is on everybody's mind; recolors.
Just got back on, happy to see my Toad post went over great with everyone! Shinhed-echi's flower effect for the spores sounds cool, actually. They could take Ivysaur's on-hit flower effect properties for this.
I am curious as to who mentioned turnips, as I left them out of my post. I could kind of see it for Toad but I feel that if it happened he'd have too many projectiles. I wanted to make Toad the Wolf of the Mario clan, and I think giving him an extra projectile would outclass Mario and Luigi in versatility and make it him too focused on zoning, when I thought Toad should work best as the faster, more close-range Mario.
...Not discrediting the idea though! I liked your other ideas for his down-B as well, like the troll-ish flower attack (the metal flower thing would cause millions of recorded replays every time it happened).
I'm also a bit confused as to whether people understood my up and side specials. Up special would use the flip jump animation from Super Mario Bros. 2, specifically the Super Mario Advance version, and it would work like a sourspotted Luigi up-B, only slightly more powerful in knockback and damage (though, now that people mention it, i think it could be neat if you could charge it for more power like in SMB2). Side-special is like an uncharged Green Missile with the distance of a fully charged one. You wouldn't be able to charge it by holding the B button like with Luigi, but to compensate it gains more power the farther into the attack you connect with it, kind of like Wario's Shoulder Bash attack.
Hopefully this cleared some things up. I'm loving these cool ideas
i was the one who mentioned turnips because i kinda felt with toad's strength in SMB2, giving him small fast throwable projectiles would help his game, and a large heavy one because no other character can do it, making him unique. and i felt his recovery would be more suited as the helicopter hat from supermario bros4, cuz off stage i kinda feel like just a straight upward jump with a hitbox would be too easily gimpable Why is Peach so cute in that pic?Tbh, I'm a bigger Bowser Junior supporter than I am a Toad one...for Smash4 at least. The reason I want Toad in this game is because Bowser Junior is the most likely Mario character to get into the next Smash and the picture below has already been revealed practically deconfirming him.
Nonetheless I'm excited for Super Mario 3D World as I loved the first game on 3DS. People who just want another Galaxy are missing the point: we've wanted simultaneous multiplayer in a 3D Mario for years and we're finally being given it!I read your post and understood what your design was quite well but i was elaborating what i felt would be more suited to the character
but giving him a focus on zoning wouldn't be to bad an idea, given toad's anatomy, his normals would be pretty pikachu sized, sans being able to rely on electricity for the boost in range. having him focus on zoning would help diversify his gameplay. do you wanna rushdown with quick moves and AGTed turnips? or play it safe with ice balls, carefully placed spores and loads of turnips to continuously rack up damage?
just my two cents, being a clone doesn't necessarily mean they have to resemble anything of what their original did.
Just got back on, happy to see my Toad post went over great with everyone! Shinhed-echi's flower effect for the spores sounds cool, actually. They could take Ivysaur's on-hit flower effect properties for this.
I am curious as to who mentioned turnips, as I left them out of my post. I could kind of see it for Toad but I feel that if it happened he'd have too many projectiles. I wanted to make Toad the Wolf of the Mario clan, and I think giving him an extra projectile would outclass Mario and Luigi in versatility and make it him too focused on zoning, when I thought Toad should work best as the faster, more close-range Mario.
...Not discrediting the idea though! I liked your other ideas for his down-B as well, like the troll-ish flower attack (the metal flower thing would cause millions of recorded replays every time it happened).
I'm also a bit confused as to whether people understood my up and side specials. Up special would use the flip jump animation from Super Mario Bros. 2, specifically the Super Mario Advance version, and it would work like a sourspotted Luigi up-B, only slightly more powerful in knockback and damage (though, now that people mention it, i think it could be neat if you could charge it for more power like in SMB2). Side-special is like an uncharged Green Missile with the distance of a fully charged one. You wouldn't be able to charge it by holding the B button like with Luigi, but to compensate it gains more power the farther into the attack you connect with it, kind of like Wario's Shoulder Bash attack.
Hopefully this cleared some things up. I'm loving these cool ideas
EDIT: Oops, I misread your post.
I'd like more his Crusade Up Smash.
It would simply use Diddy Kong as the character slot to load. Everything beyond that can be changed. Its just Diddy would be needed because he has the required articles needed for, as people suggested, a projectile, command grab, and item spawn.
