New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[shinhed-echi]

They really do highlight Blue Toad for his speed. O.o
I don't know.. he seems like a pretty good candidate for SSB4. But of course if he doesn't make it there, it'd be awesome seeing him here.

 

[XalchemistX]

1 vote:
Dark Samus
Paper Mario
Shadow


downvote :
Sami
Saki
Dixie Kong
Ridley
Skapon

 

[splat]

Even so, let's talk what I'm sure is on everybody's mind; recolors.

I did these eons ago:

Spoiler

Also, the more I think of it - and the more replies I read here - the stronger I feel about how much better expert design is as opposed to designing by listening to your fanbase. Granted, Project M in it's core is a bit different than the usual game development, but I think it still stands: the developer has the power to make a game truly remarkable. Fans usually want the same game but with more stuff they recognize - I think that's partially why the Smash series is loved by so many: Sakurai picks characters that are from the left field, but still deserving in their own right. I've frequented the boards during Brawl's development, and a lot of the rosters had picks on there that are still on people's rosters today - not necessarily because they're popular (in a sense, they are) but also because they're somewhat expected.
Characters such as Mr. G&W, ROB, WFT and Villager (though less so) have been pretty outlandish choices, but have grown to be quite popular.

Of course, these polls are useful in a sense that they give the PMBR a general gist of what the masses like, but sometimes the masses don't like what they think they like.
Personally, I'd much rather see character picks based on what the PMBR team feels PM needs - instead of the top X characters from the polls.

 

[Dantarion]

I have read through this thread.

 

[Fortress]

I have read through this thread.

And what did your journey teach you of the great flame war of Captaindorf of pages ten to fifteen, and of the Pichu crises of pages seventeen and nineteen?

 

[Xyn]

vote:
Lyn
Lyn
Lyn
Lyn
Lyn


downvote
Saki
Sami
Ridley
Dixie Kong
Ganon/Black Shadow

 

[AnOkayDM]

vote:
Lyn
Lyn
Lyn
Lyn
Lyn


downvote
Saki
Sami
Ridley
Dixie Kong
Ganon/Black Shadow

Funny, but you only get one upvote for one character.

 

[BronzeGreekGod]

And what did your journey teach you of the great flame war of Captaindorf of pages ten to fifteen, and of the Pichu crises of pages seventeen and nineteen?

Comon no one was flaming, it's all in good fun.

 

[Fortress]

THIS **** ISN'T 'FUN'.

SMASH IS LIFE.

 

[Solbliminal]

What did I miss?

 

[ChronoBound]

Of course, these polls are useful in a sense that they give the PMBR a general gist of what the masses like, but sometimes the masses don't like what they think they like.
Personally, I'd much rather see character picks based on what the PMBR team feels PM needs - instead of the top X characters from the polls.

Did you read that massive post I put up on Sami a page or two back?

Anyway, at the very least I hope they look at the results with Ridley, since its increasingly looking like Sakurai may never add him in unfortunately.

 

[EdgeTheLucas]

I did these eons ago:

Spoiler

Also, the more I think of it - and the more replies I read here - the stronger I feel about how much better expert design is as opposed to designing by listening to your fanbase.
[...]
Personally, I'd much rather see character picks based on what the PMBR team feels PM needs - instead of the top X characters from the polls.

Hey splat! I love the Bowser's Castle stage you have on your Stages by splat thread, even though you say it's not finished i still have fun playing on it. Do you have any of your other stages almost done? I particularly liked the Donkey Kong and Wario Land stages.

By the way totally with you on PMBR making the final decisions, just thought it would be fun and interesting if I could make Toad not totally unremarkable to people. Oh and those recolers and inversions you made look cool.

EDIT: shortened splat's statement in the quote

 

[loganhogan]

Did you read that massive post I put up on Sami a page or two back?

Anyway, at the very least I hope they look at the results with Ridley, since its increasingly looking like Sakurai may never add him in unfortunately.

It could always be one of those situations where he makes it look like the odds are against the character but ends up added to the roster anyway. Remember in Brawl everybody thought his comment on Lucas affected Ness? However I agree I'd like Ridley to take priority for something like this if he does not end up in Smash 4.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Changing my vote:

Remove my -1 vote from Toad

Move +1 for Dark Samus to +1/2
Move +1 for Dixie to +1/2

Move +1/2 for Lyn to +1
Add +1 vote for Tom Nook

Why is nobody talking about Tom Nook?

1. He's one of the most recognizable/memorable/awesome characters of a franchise with no current character representation.
2. Moveset is very interpretive, allowing the PMBR to be very creative.
3. No tanukis/raccoons currently in the roster.
4. No shopkeepers currently in the roster.

Seriously though, why is nobody talking about Tom Nook?

 

[Chzrm3]

I did these eons ago:

Spoiler

Those recolors are so good! I love inverted Toad, and the Toadette and Toadsworth colors. : D

Why is nobody talking about Tom Nook?

1. He's one of the most recognizable/memorable/awesome characters of a franchise with no current character representation.
2. Moveset is very interpretive, allowing the PMBR to be very creative.
3. No tanukis/raccoons currently in the roster.
4. No shopkeepers currently in the roster.


Seriously though, why is nobody talking about Tom Nook?

Personally, I would've had the Animal Crosser as the top choice on my list, if not for his inclusion in Smash 4. I'd be a bit worried if PM did an Animal Crossing character at this point, because I have no idea what'll make Nintendo mad. Animal Crosser is one of the big selling points of Smash 4, so even if PM didn't directly add him, adding Tom Nook may be seen as going too far by Nintendo.

If it was safe to put him in, I'd be all for that. I really just have no way of knowing. : >

 

[the_suicide_fox]

Did you read my unintentionally collapsed spoiler reply up there?

I like the idea, actually; remember I just made a CLONE moveset, I like the other discussions about a different Toad moveset where he wouldn't be a clone. My idea isn't the only one--if you want to discuss non-clone Toad you can totally do that as a separate discussion. I'd love to read a super comprehensive list of ideas for original Toad

Either way doesn't matter, I honestly think that Toad and the Black Shadow/Ganondorf are the best and most plausible ideas so far. Though I would wait on Toad if only he should appear in Smash 4. I was just throwing in my thoughts.

I was wondering, say we decide to make Toad and he also shopws up in Smash 4. It would be very interesting to see how the players would design Toad compared to how Sakuri would design him. He wouldn't be a clone in Smash 4, but still might helps us gauge the direction of Smash 4 before it comes out. Maybe even change Sakuri's mind on a few things.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

Personally, I would've had the Animal Crosser as the top choice on my list, if not for his inclusion in Smash 4. I'd be a bit worried if PM did an Animal Crossing character at this point, because I have no idea what'll make Nintendo mad. Animal Crosser is one of the big selling points of Smash 4, so even if PM didn't directly add him, adding Tom Nook may be seen as going too far by Nintendo.

If it was safe to put him in, I'd be all for that. I really just have no way of knowing. : >

Yeah, that's a concern, for sure. I just don't know where the line has been drawn.

I would think that the whole "staying on Nintendo's good side" and "no backporting characters" means that they won't be taking any new characters from Smash 4 and give them a Brawl->Project M style change.

Tom Nook isn't the Villager, and if they gave him a different moveset it might not be a big deal.

That said, I don't know what would be considered crossing the line. That's more up for the PMBR/Nintendo to decide.

I choose to believe that Tom Nook is an entirely valid option, and we should be discussing him more.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Updating my votes:

+1 (unchanged)
-Samurai Goroh
-Pichu
-Saki
-Sukapon
-Knuckles

+1/2
-Toad
-Andy
-Tails
-Shadow
-Plusle/Minum over Pichu (as one character)
-Dark Samus
-Isaac
-Ridley
-Ray MKII
-Devil-King K. Rool:-Dixie
-Sami



-1
-Black Shadow / Ganondorf: (Not a good suggestion at all. Not to mention the hype for each separate is only HALF. The new dog gets the old tricks, the old dog gets the new tricks, neither one is 100% new. Not to mention most people don't REALLY want Black Shadow, they want Ganondorf decloned, they don't care about F-Zero or the fact that Goroh is the next best representative to F-Zero (according to Nintendo) >See post about Samurai Goroh)

-Lyn: I do not approve of another Fire Emblem character, let alone one that uses a sword. If it's just due to the katana, then we have Goroh for that while still representing an unrepresented franchise. If it's because she's a SHE, there are other more iconic MAIN female characters to choose from.

-Paper Mario: Certainly no more alternate versions of an existing character. An Alt. for Mr.Game and Watch is enough if you ask me, he also uses hammers.

 

[ChronoBound]

It could always be one of those situations where he makes it look like the odds are against the character but ends up added to the roster anyway. Remember in Brawl everybody thought his comment on Lucas affected Ness? However I agree I'd like Ridley to take priority for something like this if he does not end up in Smash 4.

The problem with that is that the Project M team will have already decided all of the newcomer slots by the time Smash 4 releases.

Also, the Japanese comment about Ness and Lucas was far more cryptic, whereas even in the Japanese version of the Miiverse update he is more forthcoming about Ridley being involved with the Pyrosphere (in the English translation its simply "an enemy from Samus's past could appear at any moment" whereas in the Japanese version its "the one who caused Samus's trauma could appear at any moment").

Anyone who knows anything about Metroid lore knows that basically only one enemy has deeply traumatized Samus, and that's Ridley.

Not to mention the massive tunnel in the Pyrsophere where Ridley could theoretically fly out of and exit.

 

[PastLink]

That's a cool idea, as I DID imagine Toad fighting more close-range. I just thought it would be a bit overpowered because Toad would be the fastest of the three and thus have an easier time getting close to the opponent. It can still work, though, as long as its power is lessened for maybe a higher knockback or something.




Yeah I'm kinda worried about that too Nonetheless I'm excited for Super Mario 3D World as I loved the first game on 3DS. People who just want another Galaxy are missing the point: we've wanted simultaneous multiplayer in a 3D Mario for years and we're finally being given it!




I DO like these ideas, actually. I actually imagined Toad's normals to be Pikachu-sized like you said, neat how some people can read minds 0_0 I really wanted to make Toad have a unique moveset but I figured PMBR wouldn't go about working on a completely new character that wasn't all that popular anyway. I figured out that Toad would be more liked if he was a clone of Mario and Luigi since that's how he's represented in New Super Generic Bros.

...and while coming up with a cloned moveset I grew attached to the idea of Toad as a clone because I knew it was more likely, as PMBR would only have to work as hard as they did with Roy (yeah I know 300 hours is still a bit much...). I'd like some Super Mario Bros. 2 representation with vegetable attacks, though, so maybe it COULD replace the spore attack I made up for his down-B. It's just I wanted Toad to have a completely unique special not borrowed from many Mario characters like Peach's down-B.

On a completely unrelated note, my ride to high school (I'm a senior) never came, and I HATE being absent for school because it means more work to make up. Oh well, at least I'll have more time to look at this forum.

oh cool ^_^ and i get wanting to make him easier to make for the PMBR but honestly knowing these guys, if they do want him in, or they want to put him in because they feel inclined to look at the votes and decide on him. i wouldn't put it past them to still make him as unique as possible. honestly really the only thing that just doesn't sit well with me is the side B and up B being the same just different directions. reasons for making it that way aside, it just personally would irk me ^_^.

also, i don't believe i've cast my votes yet

upvotes:
toad +1
isaac +1
sukapon +1
andy +1
dark samus +1

halfvotes
pichu + 1/2
bowser jr. +1/2
paper mario +1/2

 

[PseudoTypical]

I'd like to change my votes a little. Everything here is added to my original votes, unless otherwise noted.

+1
Shadow (I feel he does deserve it. Would be a great nod to the community, he's important to a lot of people, and he could be done very well)

+1/2
Tom Nook (a lot of room for ingenuity, and a fair substitute to Villager)
King K Rool (was +1, so subtract 1/2 from score. I don't think he's as valuable as I originally thought)
Skapon (fun, classic, interesting)
Dark Samus (a fair Ridley sub if he doesn't work out)

-1
Black Shadow/Ganondorf combo (I never liked this idea. Ganon's moves are too important to Smash culture now. I don't want to see them go)
Lyn (no more FE characters, please)
Sami (I don't see the appeal of Advance Wars characters in Smash Bros, and there are far more iconic choices)
Saki (I think Sin and Punishment isn't as deserving a franchise as many other games, and I don't find the character appealing)

I'm still not thoroughly convinced with Toad, although it hasn't earned a -1 from me, so I'l wait and see what happens with him.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

+1/2 for Tom Nook?

Now we're cooking with gas!

There's some serious potential in Tom Nook though. All aboard the hype train!

 

[AnOkayDM]

The thing about Tom Nook is that he couldn't have the Villager's pick up items mechanic, because I doubt there's any way for even the PMBR wizards to code something quite that complex.

I believe I only gave a +1 to three characters, so I'm adding a +1 to Tom Nook.

 

[PseudoTypical]

+1/2 for Tom Nook?

Now we're cooking with gas!

There's some serious potential in Tom Nook though. All aboard the hype train!

lol I do hope that he succeeds. If this Metal Sonic idea isn't catching on, I might even be convinced into a +1 (as may other people) if someone could give some idea of what he'd be like...

EDIT:

The thing about Tom Nook is that he couldn'thave the Villager's pick up items mechanic, because I doubt there's any way for even the PMBR wizards to code something quite that complex.

I believe I only gave a +1 to three characters, so I'm adding a +1 to Tom Nook.

Yay, another one! I don't think that mechanic would be too necessary, honestly. They could do quite well without it in all likelihood.

 

[820]

I'll add a 1/2 for Nook as well.

 

[Fortress]

One full vote for Nook.

 

[Emg3]

a full vote for tom nook. and a full vote for...

 

[libertyernie]

5 +1 votes? OK, cool. I'll just use 4 for now, though.

• Isaac - Seems like an all-around good choice. Plus that's my name too.
• Sami - From a series that doesn't have a character yet, there's a good base for her moveset, and she's another female character, which is a very nice thing to have!
• Skapon - I just like him.
• Knuckles - He'd be a natural fighter for hand-to-hand combat. He also strikes me as the least fan-service-y of the three (if that's a thing.)

 

[B.W.]

I'm running out of images. I'm going to need to start making some at this rate.

 

[geno]

Yeah, Tom Nook! Even though I'm not sure how well he'd fit aesthetically into a smash game, come to think of it...
But one really cool move could be his down-B being like Snake's down-smash except instead of a mine, it's a pitfall.

(After discussing Nook, we need to get back to Paper Mario. He was never properly discussed!)

 

[B.W.]

He'd be too much like Villager from Smash 4. Are we done talking about Tom Nook?

 

[Galaga]

+1 Votes:
Black Shadow/Ganon
Issac
Paper Mario

 

[Solbliminal]

Half-vote for Nook~

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

He'd be too much like Villager from Smash 4. Are we done talking about Tom Nook?

He doesn't have to be like anything.

Animal Crossing is a goofy series with no true basis for creating a character for Smash. Think of it like F-Zero and Captain Falcon, except Tom Nook can more easily have nods to his series than Falcon ever could.

His moveset doesn't have to be anything like the Villager, nor should it be. Nothing is set in stone.

There's so much potential and room for creativity in designing a character like Tom Nook that it's got me all excited.

 

[B.W.]

Please tell me what Tom Nook could do that wouldn't be comparable to what the Villager will do, I'm dying to know.

 

[Solbliminal]

Please tell me what Tom Nook could do that wouldn't be comparable to what the Villager will do, I'm dying to know.

Put you in debt.

 

[Anti Guy]

There's so much potential and room for creativity in designing a character like Tom Nook that it's got me all excited.

Control your hype. What potential and room for creativity is there within the scope of P:M? Don't forget this is not an SSB4 character speculation thread, it's for P:M. We need simple and doable characters; so how would Tom Nook work and who would he be based off of?

 

[geno]

Ahh, dat's true. Depends on his moveset I guess. Uhhh, this is really not well thought out, so help me out, but Maybe over Snake?
Up-B could be just like snake's but with balloons/umbrella.
Down-B could be like snakes current down smash, but a pitfall instead of a mine.
Could change his knife to a different article in F-smash like a bag of bells.
D-smash could be snake's vBrawl F-smash, but with a shovel (maybe give it knock down instead of bury to differentiate from SSB4?).
That leaves a projectile option open for Side-B (but what can we do with that??) and whatever for everything else

 

[820]

Nook over Ivysaur. Hear me out:
Up Special is a fishing rod tether. If it hits someone in the air, Nook is pulled at the for a follow up.
Side Special he throws mail, similar to Ivy's razor leaf
Down Special could be like Ivy's but in reverse, where he throws down a pitfall. Only one out at a time, and it might need to be tweaked for balance.
Neutral Special could be some sort of push away move. Not sure what the animation would be, but it would be a spacing tactic.
His specials are based around getting stage control. His normal attacks would be light hitting and decent knock back, but not be as combo able, while his aerials would link into each other better and compliment his ability to dictate the other characters position. I would go more in depth but I'mttyping this on my phone.

 

[PseudoTypical]

Nook over Ivysaur. Hear me out:
Up Special is a fishing rod tether. If it hits someone in the air, Nook is pulled at the for a follow up.
Side Special he throws mail, similar to Ivy's razor leaf
Down Special could be like Ivy's but in reverse, where he throws down a pitfall. Only one out at a time, and it might need to be tweaked for balance.
Neutral Special could be some sort of push away move. Not sure what the animation would be, but it would be a spacing tactic.
His specials are based around getting stage control. His normal attacks would be light hitting and decent knock back, but not be as combo able, while his aerials would link into each other better and compliment his ability to dictate the other characters position. I would go more in depth but I'mttyping this on my phone.

If you get a chance later and are willing, I'd like to hear more about your moveset ideas, with pictures where possible. It sounds promising!