New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[ChronoBound]

I think its time to post my vote.

+1:

Isaac: The GBA Golden Sun games were among the most popular handheld RPGs ever (especially if you exclude the Pokemon series). Isaac has been a popularly requested character for Smash Bros. since the pre-Brawl days. He is still within the Top 10 most wanted newcomers for Smash Bros., though unfortunately, many speculate he won't make it into Smash 4 due to the lack of Japanese interest in the character, and Sakurai probably choosing the more contemporary Shulk from Xenoblade. Isaac is an impeccable choice for Project M due not only the popularity of the character and the fact that there basically exists very little objections to him, but would serve to represent a popular franchise from Nintendo that has had three games to date.

Lyn: Lots of people will say FE will be over-represented, or that Roy represents the Elibe arc just fine. However, Lyn could bring a style to Smash Bros. not yet seen (namely an eastern swordplay/katana style). She makes an obvious addition too for those want additional women on the roster. FE7 is probably still the best international FE (or at least I think so still), and FE7 has the distinction of being the first international game in the series, and overall probably being the most popular non-Pokemon title for the GBA. Being one of the most popular Assist Trophy additions (the only two being more popular being Little Mac and Isaac), she would be welcomed into Project M. Also, her chances of entering the actual Smash 4 are very small (she gets outprioritized by a FE13 newcomer and Roy in terms of FE new additions), so the Project M team does not have to worry about her showing up in that game if that is a concern for them.

Dixie Kong: She is the only remaining popular character from the Forbidden 7 that has yet to be incorporated into Project M (Mewtwo and Roy already got their slots back, while the more mixed Doc has been brought back as a costume which is fine). Dixie Kong being planned for Brawl deserves to have a second shot of filling her old Forbidden 7 file folder. She is among the most popular and iconic Nintendo characters not yet playable in Smash Bros., and certainly the most important female Nintendo character not yet playable. She could also be based off of Diddy Kong and DK, and has some of her own unique abilities (namely with that oversized ponytail of her's). She is an endearing character that has stood the test of time. Just about the only hesitation you could say about her is that she has some good chances for Smash 4, but then again so do Mewtwo and Roy (especially Mewtwo), and they were already added in for Project M. However, even then, the fact that Dixie Kong was a character that was supposed to be in Brawl (and a popular one at that) should give her special consideration despite her decent chances for Smash 4.

Sami: While she is definitely far less known that any of the characters mentioned thus far, she no less would make a valuable addition to Project M. As in the detailed post linked to in the opening post under Sami's entry, she could very feasibly become a Snake clone. More importantly, she would serve to represent the Famicom/Advance Wars franchise, a series dating back to 1988, and has at least six games under its belt. Also, although Sami is much less known than many other choices, neither was Marth and Roy back when Melee was released (though Marth was known to Japanese players), yet they became among the most popular additions to Melee. The fact is that Sami, despite being a relative unknown, would basically pull a Marth/Roy with many of the people playing Project M because who wouldn't want to play as a rough and tumble soldier girl? Secondly, Sami would serve to bring in a very valuable niche by representing the Advance Wars franchise, especially considering it likely won't receive a playable character in Smash 4 or possibly any other notable content (the franchise is so niche in Japan that Days of Ruin/Dark Conflict was never released there despite being developed by Intelligent Systems, which is Japanese developer). Its also fitting that Sami would basically be the return of the Marth/Roy principle considering that Famicom/Advance Wars is basically the sister series to Fire Emblem.

Ridley: I saved the best for last. Ridley is in a class all his own. He is probably the single most important character from a veteran Nintendo franchise (a franchise that already has playable characters in Smash Bros.) not yet playable in Smash Bros. People have been howling for a playable debut for the Space Pirate Commander (or the Cunning God of Death as he is also known) ever since his cameo in the background for Planet Zebes back during Smash 64. He has been among the Top 5 most wanted characters for Smash Bros. among Western fans of the franchise for well over a decade. No other character could bring hype to Smash 4 or Project M (at least in terms of "true" newcomers) like Ridley could.

Unfortunately for Ridley fans, Sakurai has been making hints that Ridley may be a stage hazard for the Metroid arena for Smash 4 Wii U, which is the Pyrosphere. For those who don't know, the Pyrosphere is where you fought Ridley in Other M. In the update unveiling the Pyrosphere, Sakurai made a cryptic comment that "an enemy from Samus's past could appear at any moment". In a later update, Sakurai showed a very large hole (literally the entire update was simply showing the large hole and nothing else) from where Ridley could enter and exit the Pyrosphere. While Sakurai could simply be trolling Ridley fans, these things are very disconcerting, and no Ridley fan should be surprised if we end up being greeted with Stage Hazardley one morning.

That is where Project M comes in. Like with Advance Wars, Metroid is simply a series that is not popular in Japan, and as such Sakurai probably does not give it the consideration it truly deserves. Project M, being a team of mostly Western developers, could finally give Ridley the recognition he long deserves, and make him entered the hallowed halls of Nintendo All-Stardom, Super Smash Bros.

Ridley would certainly be a difficult character to develop, and I think the team should only begin development on him once they already built up their experience completing four other characters. However, the payoff for bringing the world a Sakurai-developed quality playable Ridley to the world would be immense! It would definitely steal some thunder from Smash 4 that's for sure. It would truly be a dream come true for many to finally see Samus's arch-nemesis fighting her nemesis on the field of battle in Smash Bros.


Half-votes:

K. Rool: He is a Nintendo All-Star alongside Dixie Kong. Though he definitely would be harder to develop than Dixie. However, I feel Dixie deserves it more since she was planned for Brawl.

Andy: I feel Advance Wars just needs some playable representation in Smash Bros. for the long-standing Nintendo franchise it is. Like with K. Rool, Andy would have to be a non-clone, and thus much more difficult to develop. I also think Sami could potentially draw more people in than Andy would.

Toad: I like the little guy. I truly do. Wario's Woods is a masterpiece, and he is the only character from the Mario platformers that has been playable in them that has not yet been added in as a playable character for Smash Bros. However, any Mario character chosen for Project M is going to take a lot of heat and that includes Toad unfortunately.

Paper Mario: Same reason as Toad, although he represents a popular sub-series. As I said any Mario character is going to be bashed because frankly no one can agree on who the Mario character should be, and lots of fans for a particular Mario newcomer hate other potential Mario newcomers.

Pico: Probably the only person that will vote for him. He is my favorite F-Zero character, and he feasibly could be made into a Snake-clone.

Negative Votes:

Any Sonic Character (Shadow, Tails, Knuckles): As many have already said, Smash Bros. is a Nintendo All-Star franchise. Also, its a case of the Mario series where supporters to one character hate the other characters.

Waluigi: Toad, Paper Mario, and Bowser Jr. all have important roles within the Mario series. Waluigi technically is not anymore notable than Daisy or the Koopa Troopa who has been playable since the Super Nintendo Mario Kart. He is not a Nintendo All-Star material, in my opinion. It also hurts him that the fans of most other Mario characters basically see him as a "filler character" so he would basically be piled on the worst of any potential Mario character they could add.

Dark Samus: I personally think she would be a good character choice IF Ridley is playable in Smash 4. However, considering that Ridley's chances are iffy for Smash 4, she has no place in getting in over him (it would be like placing a one shot Zelda villain in Smash Bros. over Ganon/Ganondorf). Also, it would be strange to have three characters named Samus on the roster.

Krystal: Simply put, Star Fox only had one great game, and that was 64. Krystal wasn't in it. Also, not a fan of her nor the games she has been in, we have enough spacies already as well.

Here is a roster picture that another user (splat) made with my potential newcomers for Project M in mind.

Since the Smash Bros. Brawl character selection can only allow a maximum of five rows, this is how the screen was arranged (courtesy to LD50 for suggesting the idea of posting the random icon in the middle of the select screen and having a 9/10/9/10/9 set up for a 46 slot screen).

The first row has characters hailing from the Mario Universe (namely characters from the Mario, Yoshi, Wario, and DK franchises).

The second row has characters from Nintendo's " fantasy adventure" franchises (Fire Emblem, Kid Icarus, Zelda), basically franchises with an adventure-y outlook, an anime aesthetic, and characters that mostly use swords.

The third row has Nintendo's "space" franchises (Star Fox, Pikmin, Metroid, F-Zero).

The fourth row has the series that HAL has developed for (Kirby and Mother), the three retros, and the two guests.

The fifth row has Nintendo's three primary handheld franchises (Pokemon, Golden Sun, and Advance Wars).

There is also the small touch of having Captain Falcon and Ganondorf connected to each other, and having Snake and Sami connected to each other (since Falcon/Ganondorf and Snake/Sami are characters that derivative of each other).

While I am sure many of you will disagree with my choices, I was trying to go for:
1. Characters that would please the maximum amount of people (while also being the least controversial).
2. Characters that would represent an important aspect to a Nintendo franchise (Ridley, Dixie Kong, and possibly Lyn) or a neglected Nintendo franchise (Isaac and Sami).
3. Characters that would bring something new and fresh to Project M even if they end up a clone.

Of these, I think its really only Sami and Ridley that would be risky. Sami due to being a relative unknown (though I think lots of people are going to end up liking her if this thread is anything to go by), and Ridley since he probably will have to be a character made from scratch (though in his favor he already has a decent model in Brawl, already have voice effects needed in place, and has had Pat Cashman, aka the Brawl announcer, do his name)
.

 

[Eisen]

Alright so I'm a huge butt and used the word "you" a lot to describe multiple people. Basically, if I say "you" it means ANYBODY who falls under relevant categories or opinions, not just one person. Anyway...

The only arguments Pichu has in favor of it amounts to:

- Because Melee
- Because different
- Because Roy (whom while I don't mind, would prefer another character over, but see I understand that Roy's popular, so I can forgo my opinion of which characters I like for the sacrifice of others; and speaking of "I": )
- "Because I like him"
- Because he's easier to implement into Project M

Can any Pichu supporter factually support the idea that Pichu is wanted by a majority of people over another popular, unimplemented character?

The point I made with Melee iterations is something you're missing. Melee Bowser plays probably more differently compared to PM Bowser does than Pikachu does to Pichu. Just because someone might "like/prefer" how Bowser plays in Melee, doesn't mean it's good. They had to change a lot of things about Bowser, whether you see it or not, to make him viable. To make Pichu viable, you'd have to do something drastic to his moveset too.

Look, if it makes you feel any better, you're not alone. Bowser has been my favorite character in Nintendo or video games since I was like.... 7. However, I do not enjoy playing him in Project M. I think he's way too boring and not really a challenge in comparison to some other characters. Does this mean this is good enough reason to bring Melee Bowser back from the grave, and give him his own moveset in PM just because I like it better? Absolutely not. I have to think realistically here, and make sacrifices.

I like Game and Watch better in Melee for reasons I can't explain. But he sucks comparatively. I prefer how Kirby plays in Smash 64, but I seriously doubt that iteration will be much represented in PM for multiple reasons. I wish Samus will turn out just as flashy and crazy as Lucas, or more true to Metroid Prime trilogy because I'm a fanboy. Does it mean she will? Not at all. I am okay with this though, for the "greater good", which basically means "the feelings of other people". I could go on but I assume my point is clear.

If Pichu supporters can accept the fact that some characters--quite a few characters--hold priority above Pichu, I have no problem. But it's really frustrating to have been a Metroid or an F-Zero fan or a fan of other un-rep'd or underrep'd, popular/semi-popular series, caling out to Nintendo for our favorite series to get represented/represented more, only to have characters like ROB and Toon Link, Wii Fit Trainer and ZSS to take their place. And on top of that, to have people act so.... entitled to a character of insignificance, whom was only relevant-ish during the early 2000's when Pokemon Gold/Silver were brand new, and whom is comparatively mildly different to its counterpart, and to have that character's series over-represented time and time again.... you've no idea how frustrating that is. Because if you did, you'd not be supporting Pichu over anyone else.

Lastly, I can't stress enough that Pichu is easy to size mod so that Pikachu's hitboxes generally fit Pichu's if it bothers you that much... Don't forget that some characters have ridiculous properties and hitboxes, so it's not unorthodox for a Pichu sizemod to do the same... and taking this bit of effort saves the PMBR countless hours of balancing, rebalancing, modelling, texturing, debugging, polishing; it saves people like me and many others the future possible heartache of "geez, Project M sure is great... it's too bad they decided to choose Pichu over Ridley/King K Rool/Isaac. They would have added such new flavor to the game..."

Overall I'd say my message is: Make some sacrifices. Please consider how other people (meaning more than just a handful) feel and, while I encourage enthusiasm, please back that enthusiasm with something more... relevant? if that makes sense. Pichu supporters in my opinion need a much stronger reason for their character if it is to be considered and accepted by the community. Feeling entitled to him because you like him is, unfortunately, not enough.

I hope that all makes sense. But I'll clarify if it doesn't; just ask away.

 

[trojanpooh]

We will just agree to disagree then. I am sure the team will make the right decision about Pichu (in the context of the entire Smash Bros. fanbase).

I am personally extremely happy the team brought back Mewtwo and Roy, and gave us a Dr. Mario costume that throws pills.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm more hyped for 3.0 than I have been for any real game in a long long time (actually, make that any non Pokemon game). I wasn't expecting any new characters and I'm thrilled to see Roy and Mewtwo return. I'd be fine perfectly okay with them being the only 2 new characters, but were they to add another 1-5 I personally believe that Pichu deserves to be at the top of that list due to his inclusion in Melee. I'll support them regardless of the decision they make, I just hope it's the one that I would were I in their shoes.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

Can't you apply pretty much everything you're saying about Pichu to Roy, as well?

Roy's not very important in the grand scheme of Nintendo characters.
He was a weaker version of Marth, and Marth's playstyle is already being represented by Marth.
It would take a tremendous amount of work and energy to bring Roy back to Brawl.
His mechanics and stats would have to be changed for him to be a viable competitive fighter, meaning he wouldn't play quite like Melee Roy.
There's already two Fire Emblem reps, which is a lot for that series when you consider it's the same amount of reps that legendary series like Metroid, DK, etc have been given..
Roy could easily have been a costume for Marth. Sure, a few hitboxes may be different, but they're basically the same anatomically.

Yet Roy was brought back, and the Roy fans (myself included) absolutely love it.

I think the only legitimate argument against bringing back Pichu is that Pokemon has an obscene amount of reps already, so giving them another is just kinda silly. I will concede that 8 reps for any series is ridiculous when, again, DK and Metroid are sitting at 2, but it's not as if the PMBR would be deciding for themselves "let's add another pokemon!" They'd be bringing an old Melee vet back, so it's a lil' different.

This. If this were a SSB4 speculation thread, then I wouldn't want Pichu back either-- however, P:M is being touted as the sequel to Melee, in which case "Pichu was in Melee" becomes a legitimate case.

Making Pichu a costume wouldn't really work due to issues with Pichu's size, proportions, or hitboxes.
Pokemon having too many reps is a legitimate argument, I will concede.

In spite of this, I stand by my contention that if the PMBR could salvage Roy and make him interesting in spite of being a clone who was neither a fan favorite nor a very good character in Melee, or even his own game, then they can certainly do a great job with Pichu.

 

[ChronoBound]

In spite of this, I stand by my contention that if the PMBR could salvage Roy and make him interesting in spite of being a clone who was neither a fan favorite .

Roy is certainly a fan favorite. He is one of the most wanted characters for Smash 4 for crying out loud.

 

[Fortress]

Anthony Higgs (Metroid Other M)- Whether you liked Other M or not you can't deny it happened nor can you deny he's a canon Metroid character. He's a Federation Marine so he has a plethora of weapons at his disposal, from heavy hitting Plasma guns to quick but dainty Ice Guns. He'd give the Metroid series more representation plus he'd be the first Black character.

AWWWWWWWWW YEAH, BABY. THE HIGGS LIKES.

Anthony should totally be a vote option. I'm casting my vote for him. Really, he could be a faster, weaker Samus with a more heavyset sort of characterization. Higgs was likable, competent, and established as a character close to Samus herself. I'm surprised; shocked and appalled, that he's only now being brought up. Diversity in the cast is a total plus, and as a GMFC Marine, he's got plenty of weapons to work with.

Neutral Special: Could be similar to the rapid-firing blaster that we see in Prime 2: Echoes, when the GMFC compound is ambushed at the start of the game. He could fire it in quick three-round bursts that would be stronger than Samus's uncharged blasts or something, but can utilize his awesome Plasma Gun to charge and fire a high-powered round. The charge time would be longer than Samus', but the blast would be stronger.

Forward Special: The Freeze Gun. Anthony would fire a short and powerful burst a short range in front of him, stunning the target in front of him and blasting them back (freezing them solid like the item would probably be too powerful, I imagine).

Down Special: I have absolutely no idea.

Anyway, I'm not going to get too into that, this isn't the place. But, I do agree that Anthony has well more than enough personality, could easily have some awesome taunts if anything, and has voicing readily available from Other M (provided, you'd probably have to record it and then put it back onto your computer and mess with it or something, as you can't just rip sounds from game-to-game as I understand it).

I think Anthony should be somebody we should at least consider.

 

[ChronoBound]

Anthony Higgs does not qualify since he never made an appearance in Brawl.

 

[trojanpooh]

Anthony Higgs is omnipresent. To say he is absent from a game is to say the game doesn't exist.

 

[ChronoBound]

No comments on the elaborate write up for my vote? I think at the very least I brought a compelling case with each of those character choices.

 

[Fortress]

Anthony Higgs does not qualify since he never made an appearance in Brawl.

Please don't do this to me.

 

[Fortress]

No comments on the elaborate write up for my vote? I think at the very least I brought a compelling case with each of those character choices.

Also, I'l have to check out your elaboration. I just got home from work, so it's time for a sit down.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

Roy is certainly a fan favorite. He is one of the most wanted characters for Smash 4 for crying out loud.

I would be amazed to see Roy make SSB4 over Chrom, to be honest. If not for him, I think Roy would have a much stronger chance. Most of the FE buzz as far as SSB4 is concerned has been mostly centered around Chrom, Lucina, and Owain, oddly enough. but I mostly lurk gamefaqs' SSB4 boards. Maybe things are different here on Smashboards.
I'm also kinda bummed that none of the Jugdral lords have even had so much as a trophy in SSB. ;__;

Speaking of your writeup, I have to agree that Ridley is a fantastic choice. Dixie and Issac are also good choices, and this thread has sold me on Paper Mario as the next best Mario rep (should that series get another character-- if not here, then in SSB4).
I'd be fine with Lyn, though I think Fire Emblem Elibe is quite nicely represented with Roy IMO. it would be nice to see an Eliwood costume for Roy, however. (NOT a reskin, just Roy wearing Eliwood's FE7 outfit.)

I would probably go with Samurai Goroh over Pico for a new F-zero character, but I can understand the feeling of having a favorite character that nobody else ever really has much to say about. I remember being a very lonely Krillin fan when DBZ was all the rage in school....

 

[ChronoBound]

I would be amazed to see Roy make SSB4 over Chrom, to be honest. If not for him, I think Roy would have a much stronger chance. Most of the FE buzz as far as SSB4 is concerned has been mostly centered around Chrom, Lucina, and Owain, oddly enough. but I mostly lurk gamefaqs' SSB4 boards. Maybe things are different here on Smashboards.

There is your problem. GameFAQs is a horrible place. I registered there back in 2001 as Snakey, and I have slowly seen the place devolve into a troll and idiot infested hellhole. I barely do any more Smash Bros. speculation there anymore for that reason.

Outside that place (and in Japan), Roy gets far more requests than Chrom.

Secondly, there is no way a gendeswap version of Marth (Lucina) and non-lord unit with a cult only relegated to GameFAQs (Owain) is getting in.

I would probably go with Samurai Goroh over Pico for a new F-zero character, but I can understand the feeling of having a favorite character that nobody else ever really has much to say about. I remember being a very lonely Krillin fan when DBZ was all the rage in school....

Pico was more of a personal choice. I have been a fan of him since the Nintendo 64 days. He definitely won't get getting in over the likes of Samurai Goroh or Black Shadow, but I still really like him as a character.

 

[Chzrm3]

No comments on the elaborate write up for my vote? I think at the very least I brought a compelling case with each of those character choices.

I liked it! I just didn't comment because you covered everything. =)

 

[Fortress]

Oh, man. This is pretty well-thought out and complete. To argue against anything on here feels like an insult, almost. Okay, well, haven't read it yet, so I'll just work my way down and post what I think as I go.

saac: The GBA Golden Sun games were among the most popular handheld RPGs ever (especially if you exclude the Pokemon series). Isaac has been a popularly requested character for Smash Bros. sincethe pre-Brawl days. He is still within the Top 10 most wanted newcomers for Smash Bros., though unfortunately, many speculate he won't make it into Smash 4 due to the lack of Japanese interest in the character, and Sakurai probably choosing the more contemporary Shulk from Xenoblade. Isaac is an impeccable choice for Project M due not only the popularity of the character and the fact that there basically exists very little objections to him, but would serve to represent a popular franchise from Nintendo that has had three games to date.

I agree that Issac has the popular support, and even a bit of demand within the Smash community as a whole. There's no denying that at all. To do so would be foolish. He's got plenty of material to work with from his source, so a moveset should be well-established or easy enough to think up and start. The only tricky part, I imagine, is the voicing. PM:BR could do their own voicing, which would be money. I also imagine that, assuming Issac is using his psynergy abilities, that the combination of magical and melee attacks would make him more inclined to be an offshoot of Zelda, of all characters. That's just my take on it, however, and you've probably thought this out much more than I have.

Lyn:

Lots of people will say FE will be over-represented, or that Roy represents the Elibe arc just fine. However, Lyn could bring a style to Smash Bros. not yet seen (namely an eastern swordplay/katana style). She makes an obvious addition too for those want additional women on the roster. FE7 is probably still the best international FE (or at least I think so still), and FE7 has the distinction of being the first international game in the series, and overall probably being the most popular non-Pokemon title for the GBA. Being one of the most popular Assist Trophy additions (the only two being more popular being Little Mac and Isaac), she would be welcomed into Project M. Also, her chances of entering the actual Smash 4 are very small (she gets outprioritized by a FE13 newcomer and Roy in terms of FE new additions), so the Project M team does not have to worry about her showing up in that game if that is a concern for them.

I entirely agree that Fire Emblem, no matter how much I'm biased in its favor as a great series, is over-represented. Lyn being a woman doesn't justify it enough for her inclusion, and my beef with her is the same as everybody else's; another Fire Emblem character to soak up a slot.

However, I completely agree that Lyn could bring a different kind of 'flavor' to the swordplay in the game. She's clearly from a culture in her own universe of its own brand of fighting, and even her weaponry is an indication of that. She's got the popular support, and implementing here wouldn't be too large of a chore. If she were to appear at some point, I can't say I'd complain at all.

Dixie Kong:

She is the only remaining popular character from the Forbidden 7 that has yet to be incorporated into Project M (Mewtwo and Roy already got their slots back, while the more mixed Doc has been brought back as a costume which is fine). Dixie Kong being planned for Brawl deserves to have a second shot of filling her old Forbidden 7 file folder. She is among the most popular and iconic Nintendo characters not yet playable in Smash Bros., and certainly the most important female Nintendo character not yet playable. She could also be based off of Diddy Kong and DK, and has some of her own unique abilities (namely with that oversized ponytail of her's). She is an endearing character that has stood the test of time. Just about the only hesitation you could say about her is that she has some good chances for Smash 4, but then again so do Mewtwo and Roy (especially Mewtwo), and they were already added in for Project M. However, even then, the fact that Dixie Kong was a character that was supposed to be in Brawl (and a popular one at that) should give her special consideration despite her decent chances for Smash 4.

Dixie's plans for inclusion in the first place is enough to sell me on her. Though I never played much of any game in the DK franchise, I agree that she deserves a spot. She'd fill a nice balance of power, speed, and range between Diddy and Donkey Kong, and would definitely have her own 'flavor' to bring to the table. The community support, like Lyndis and Issac, is very much there, and she's feasible as well. I say it's about time to seriously consider her.

Sami:

While she is definitely far less known that any of the characters mentioned thus far, she no less would make a valuable addition to Project M. As in the detailed post linked to in the opening post under Sami's entry, she could very feasibly become a Snake clone. More importantly, she would serve to represent the Famicom/Advance Wars franchise, a series dating back to 1988, and has at least six games under its belt. Also, although Sami is much less known than many other choices, neither was Marth and Roy back when Melee was released (though Marth was known to Japanese players), yet they became among the most popular additions to Melee. The fact is that Sami, despite being a relative unknown, would basically pull a Marth/Roy with many of the people playing Project M because who wouldn't want to play as a rough and tumble soldier girl? Secondly, Sami would serve to bring in a very valuable niche by representing the Advance Wars franchise, especially considering it likely won't receive a playable character in Smash 4 or possibly any other notable content (the franchise is so niche in Japan that Days of Ruin/Dark Conflict was never released there despite being developed by Intelligent Systems, which is Japanese developer). Its also fitting that Sami would basically be the return of the Marth/Roy principle considering that Famicom/Advance Wars is basically the sister series to Fire Emblem.

I wasn't open to Sami or Andy (Annnnnnnnnndyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy) at first, but Sami seems like a feasible choice, with Snake being an excellent template from which to go off of. Her vast array of weaponry and personal experience with it in-universe make her a viable choice. The only complaints that I assume anybody could have about her are shared with my own; the support isn't there as much as it is for a character like Ridley, no matter how big of a contender she really is.

Your point about her being Project M's "Marth/Roy" factor makes perfect sense. Marth and Roy were, for the most part, an unknown in the US. Their inclusion brought the interest in Fire Emblem that helped in large to bring Fire Emblem outside of Japan, and look where it got? Though Advanced Wars is already available in the US, Sami's not a bad choice in that regard.

Ridley:

I saved the best for last. Ridley is in a class all his own. He is probably the single most important character from a veteran Nintendo franchise (a franchise that already has playable characters in Smash Bros.) not yet playable in Smash Bros. People have been howling for a playable debut for the Space Pirate Commander (or the Cunning God of Death as he is also known) ever since his cameo in the background for Planet Zebes back during Smash 64. He has been among the Top 5 most wanted characters for Smash Bros. among Western fans of the franchise for well over a decade. No other character could bring hype to Smash 4 or Project M (at least in terms of "true" newcomers) like Ridley could.

Ridley's a force to be reckoned with; a true contender for a slot, moreso than Dark Samus or any other character in the Metroid franchise. It's a no-brainer that he should be included, and I see absolutely no reasons to assume the contrary. Fans of the Smash series have been clambering for his inclusion, and he's well more than doable, being nothing more than a mere tease in each game that he's 'starred' in. The thrill and excitement of having him as part of the cast could be the 'killer app' and secret weapon that draws in a huge portion of the Smash community to Project M.

Unfortunately for Ridley fans, Sakurai has been making hints that Ridley may be a stage hazard for the Metroid arena for Smash 4 Wii U, which is the Pyrosphere. For those who don't know, the Pyrosphere is where you fought Ridley in Other M. In the update unveiling the Pyrosphere, Sakurai made a cryptic comment that "an enemy from Samus's past could appear at any moment". In a later update, Sakurai showed a very large hole (literally the entire update was simply showing the large hole and nothing else) from where Ridley could enter and exit the Pyrosphere. While Sakurai could simply be trolling Ridley fans, these things are very disconcerting, and no Ridley fan should be surprised if we end up being greeted with Stage Hazardley one morning.

That is where Project M comes in. Like with Advance Wars, Metroid is simply a series that is not popular in Japan, and as such Sakurai probably does not give it the consideration it truly deserves. Project M, being a team of mostly Western developers, could finally give Ridley the recognition he long deserves, and make him entered the hallowed halls of Nintendo All-Stardom, Super Smash Bros.

Ridley would certainly be a difficult character to develop, and I think the team should only begin development on him once they already built up their experience completing four other characters. However, the payoff for bringing the world a Sakurai-developed quality playable Ridley to the world would be immense! It would definitely steal some thunder from Smash 4 that's for sure. It would truly be a dream come true for many to finally see Samus's arch-nemesis fighting her nemesis on the field of battle in Smash Bros.

Agreed. Ridley could bring to the table the sort of energy and excitement that such a huuuuuuuge portion of the community have been freaking out about for yeeeears. Project M is on a roll; Ridley could, quite certainly, peak the game out so to speak.


Half-votes:

K. Rool: He is a Nintendo All-Star alongside Dixie Kong. Though he definitely would be harder to develop than Dixie. However, I feel Dixie deserves it more since she was planned for Brawl.

Seconded.

Andy: I feel Advance Wars just needs some playable representation in Smash Bros. for the long-standing Nintendo franchise it is. Like with K. Rool, Andy would have to be a non-clone, and thus much more difficult to develop. I also think Sami could potentially draw more people in than Andy would.

Annnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnndyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy......

Toad: I like the little guy. I truly do. Wario's Woods is a masterpiece, and he is the only character from the Mario platformers that has been playable in them that has not yet been added in as a playable character for Smash Bros. However, any Mario character chosen for Project M is going to take a lot of heat and that includes Toad unfortunately.

Seconded. Nothing more to really say.

Paper Mario: Same reason as Toad, although he represents a popular sub-series. As I said any Mario character is going to be bashed because frankly no one can agree on who the Mario character should be, and lots of fans for a particular Mario newcomer hate other potential Mario newcomers.

As hugely different as Paper Mario is to Mario, and as vastly different as they'd be, he simply loses points for being part of a cast with plenty of Mario-universe characters. It's a tough call, but I think that Paper Mario deserves a spot more than Toad does.

Pico: Probably the only person that will vote for him. He is my favorite F-Zero character, and he feasibly could be made into a Snake-clone.

And not the amazing dynamic never-separating duo of Gomar and Shioh as a clone of the Ice Climbers? Come on, man..

Negative Votes:

Any Sonic Character (Shadow, Tails, Knuckles): As many have already said, Smash Bros. is a Nintendo All-Star franchise. Also, its a case of the Mario series where supporters to one character hate the other characters.

Agreed, one-hundred percent. Another Sanic the Original Animal character could only bring flame wars. I see nothing else in the future for Sonic additions. Sonic is a guest. Sonic is the only character from his universe that deserves an actual roster slot. Just like Snake.

Waluigi: Toad, Paper Mario, and Bowser Jr. all have important roles within the Mario series. Waluigi technically is not anymore notable than Daisy or the Koopa Troopa who has been playable since the Super Nintendo Mario Kart. He is not a Nintendo All-Star material, in my opinion. It also hurts him that the fans of most other Mario characters basically see him as a "filler character" so he would basically be piled on the worst of any potential Mario character they could add.

Agreed. Waluigi is just, I don't know, there.

Dark Samus: I personally think she would be a good character choice IF Ridley is playable in Smash 4. However, considering that Ridley's chances are iffy for Smash 4, she has no place in getting in over him (it would be like placing a one shot Zelda villain in Smash Bros. over Ganon/Ganondorf). Also, it would be strange to have three characters named Samus on the roster.

As much as I love D. Samus and prefer her over Ridley, and as much as she'd probably be easier to implement, there's no doubt anywhere that Ridley is more deserving of that slot. I'm very surprised though, that you put D. Samus in your downvote section, and not your middle section.

Krystal: Simply put, Star Fox only had one great game, and that was 64. Krystal wasn't in it. Also, not a fan of her nor the games she has been in, we have enough spacies already as well.

Much agreement.

 

[MagnesD3]

God I hate it that Krystal gets all these down votes, thank goodness the negative votes are on a seperate poll.

 

[Giygacoal]

I have an idea of how Ridley could work, and I'd like to read some other opinions:
I noticed in this video that (even though it's really old work-in-progress) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyvWCMZ4s60 one of the harder things to pull of with Ridley's size is natural but mechanically balanced animation. Maybe he could default to his hovering stance so that the walk and run would transition better (Yes, I know Zard could just glide run out of just standing, but Ridley is bigger and would make looser suspension of disbelief if he followed the same exact trend.) and so he could have a laggy crouch because he has to drop. I don't know if "laggy crouch" is technically possible, but it might be an interesting, unique character balancing check.
I know many people already imagined the hover thing, so I'm more concerned with the crouch mechanic. I'm not quite sure how this would affect wavedashing.

 

[ChronoBound]

Oh, man. This is pretty well-thought out and complete. To argue against anything on here feels like an insult, almost. Okay, well, haven't read it yet, so I'll just work my way down and post what I think as I go.

Thank you kindly for the compliment. It took me several hours to complete, and honestly, I did put a lot of time and thought into what characters I though should be in. Its not just necessarily characters I am a fan of (for example, I certainly like Toad much more than everyone else on the list except Ridley). I wanted characters that would feel like that they actually belong in Smash Bros., while making the maximum amount of people happy, adding something new to the gameplay (even if they are a clone), and generating the least amount of controversy.

I agree that Issac has the popular support, and even a bit of demand within the Smash community as a whole. There's no denying that at all. To do so would be foolish. He's got plenty of material to work with from his source, so a moveset should be well-established or easy enough to think up and start. The only tricky part, I imagine, is the voicing. PM:BR could do their own voicing, which would be money. I also imagine that, assuming Issac is using his psynergy abilities, that the combination of magical and melee attacks would make him more inclined to be an offshoot of Zelda, of all characters. That's just my take on it, however, and you've probably thought this out much more than I have.

Yeah. You listed the primary concerns with Isaac. However, this team is extraordinarily talented. After restoring Mewtwo and Roy, they definitely have my belief in their ability.

I entirely agree that Fire Emblem, no matter how much I'm biased in its favor as a great series, is over-represented. Lyn being a woman doesn't justify it enough for her inclusion, and my beef with her is the same as everybody else's; another Fire Emblem character to soak up a slot.

However, I completely agree that Lyn could bring a different kind of 'flavor' to the swordplay in the game. She's clearly from a culture in her own universe of its own brand of fighting, and even her weaponry is an indication of that. She's got the popular support, and implementing here wouldn't be too large of a chore. If she were to appear at some point, I can't say I'd complain at all.

I do agree with your concerns (I have never been keen on the reasoning "we need more females cuz we need more females), but she definitely would end up being a popular character to play as in Project M despite FE probably getting more characters in this game than it will in even Smash 4 (though four playable characters is still very much possible in Smash 4).

For whatever its worth, FE had two playable characters in Melee, despite being a Japan-only franchise (though at that point it already had six games under its belt).

Dixie's plans for inclusion in the first place is enough to sell me on her. Though I never played much of any game in the DK franchise, I agree that she deserves a spot. She'd fill a nice balance of power, speed, and range between Diddy and Donkey Kong, and would definitely have her own 'flavor' to bring to the table. The community support, like Lyndis and Issac, is very much there, and she's feasible as well. I say it's about time to seriously consider her.

About the only downside to Dixie is that she might end up in Smash 4, however, I think like with Mewtwo and Roy (who also both have decent shots at being in Smash 4, especially Mewtwo), she should get a pass since she was actually considered for Brawl.

The only complaints that I assume anybody could have about her are shared with my own; the support isn't there as much as it is for a character like Ridley, no matter how big of a contender she really is

While this probably doesn't mean much, from the tallies I have, Sami has more votes in this poll than every other character except Ridley, Isaac, Lyn, Dixie Kong, and Black Shadow. She is just outside the Top 5.

I brought up the example of Marth/Roy for a reason. I have found that once Sami was explained and talked about, as well as why Advance/Famicom Wars is a worthy franchise to represent, many people liked the idea of her.

The fact is that Smash 4 is likely going to add in what few notable Nintendo franchises are left with a playable character. Already we have Villager (Animal Crossing) and Wii Fit Trainer (Wii Fit confirmed), both of which are massive franchises (New Leaf is the single most highest selling 3DS game in Japan, and Wii Fit and Wii Fit+ each outsold Brawl).

The same person who leaked Mega Man, Villager, and Wii Fit Trainer, also said that Pac-Man, Little Mac, and Mii will be in Smash 4. With Punch-Out and Wii Sports/Play represented with playable characters, it could be that the only two long-running Nintendo franchises left out of the cold in Smash 4 are Golden Sun and Advance Wars (especially the latter one).

Isaac is a clear no brainer to add (he also has barely any detractors), however, while adding an unknown character would be a risk, I feel there would a big payoff, because it keeps true to the spirit of Smash Bros. which is to represent each of Nintendo's franchises and history. I think while Sami is not as important as Andy, she is certainly a more feasible character to add (Snake clone) and more believable to be involved in hand to hand combat.

Between Smash 4 and Project M (assuming Isaac and Sami are added in) basically every popular Nintendo franchise will finally have a playable character in Smash Bros.

Personally, I am regarding Project M as a complementary game to Smash 4. Basically, an alternative Smash 4. Aside from Dixie Kong (who does have a decent shot at Smash 4), Isaac and Ridley are low-hanging fruits that Sakurai is looking to not pick, but despite this, those fruits are still among the sweetest and most satisfying.

Sakurai has historically picked unconventional characters that ended up being very appealing characters ever since the first installment (Captain Falcon), so the addition of Sami would be following through in that tradition. Her being a relative unknown compared to many other characters, I think actually works in her favor, because people will mostly judge her by how she plays and acts in Project M (just like with Marth and Roy back during Melee's release).

Your point about her being Project M's "Marth/Roy" factor makes perfect sense. Marth and Roy were, for the most part, an unknown in the US. Their inclusion brought the interest in Fire Emblem that helped in large to bring Fire Emblem outside of Japan, and look where it got? Though Advanced Wars is already available in the US, Sami's not a bad choice in that regard.

Advance Wars already has a sizable fanbase in the West. Its just that unlike FE, it basically has a very small fanbase in Japan, which is why it was basically overlooked in Brawl (and likely be ignored for Smash 4).

Its the longest running franchise aside from Punch-Out (which started in 1984) that lacks a playable character in Smash Bros., and honestly with the credentials that the Famicom/Advance Wars series has, its definitely deserving of a fighter representing it.

Ridley's a force to be reckoned with; a true contender for a slot, moreso than Dark Samus or any other character in the Metroid franchise. It's a no-brainer that he should be included, and I see absolutely no reasons to assume the contrary. Fans of the Smash series have been clambering for his inclusion, and he's well more than doable, being nothing more than a mere tease in each game that he's 'starred' in. The thrill and excitement of having him as part of the cast could be the 'killer app' and secret weapon that draws in a huge portion of the Smash community to Project M.

Couldn't agree more. He should be the last "newcomer" confirmed for Project M, possibly for the last demo introduced in late 2015. He would definitely get eyes off of Smash 4 that's for sure.

Agreed. Ridley could bring to the table the sort of energy and excitement that such a huuuuuuuge portion of the community have been freaking out about for yeeeears. Project M is on a roll; Ridley could, quite certainly, peak the game out so to speak.

Especially coming off the back of a deconfirmation for Smash 4 (Sakurai is definitely hinting that Ridley is a stage hazard in Smash 4, its just a matter of whether he is really hinting at it, or simply trolling), Ridley being confirmed for Project M would likely do for it what confirming Sonic did for Project M. Shoot the hype through the stratosphere.

And not the amazing dynamic never-separating duo of Gomar and Shioh as a clone of the Ice Climbers? Come on, man..

F-Zero has to be the among the most underrated Nintendo franchises for sure. I love a great deal of the characters, of F-Zero GX ranks as my favorite racing game of all time.

As much as I love D. Samus and prefer her over Ridley, and as much as she'd probably be easier to implement, there's no doubt anywhere that Ridley is more deserving of that slot. I'm very surprised though, that you put D. Samus in your downvote section, and not your middle section.

If Ridley was confirmed for Smash 4, I would put Dark Samus in the green section honestly. She is a bad choice though in the sense that the most important character in the Metroid series itself, still is not in yet, and considering it looks like Sakurai will end up de-confirming Ridley once he shares more about the Pyrosphere, Ridley (this is probably very arrogant to say) NEEDS to be in this.[/quote]

 

[SmashShadow]

Can't you apply pretty much everything you're saying about Pichu to Roy, as well?

Roy's not very important in the grand scheme of Nintendo characters.
He was a weaker version of Marth, and Marth's playstyle is already being represented by Marth.
It would take a tremendous amount of work and energy to bring Roy back to Brawl.
His mechanics and stats would have to be changed for him to be a viable competitive fighter, meaning he wouldn't play quite like Melee Roy.
There's already two Fire Emblem reps, which is a lot for that series when you consider it's the same amount of reps that legendary series like Metroid, DK, etc have been given..
Roy could easily have been a costume for Marth. Sure, a few hitboxes may be different, but they're basically the same anatomically.

Yet Roy was brought back, and the Roy fans (myself included) absolutely love it.

I think the only legitimate argument against bringing back Pichu is that Pokemon has an obscene amount of reps already, so giving them another is just kinda silly. I will concede that 8 reps for any series is ridiculous when, again, DK and Metroid are sitting at 2, but it's not as if the PMBR would be deciding for themselves "let's add another pokemon!" They'd be bringing an old Melee vet back, so it's a lil' different.

-Roy certainly wasn't anything awe-inspiring in terms of importance. He was never added in for that in the first place though. He was used as advertising for his game that was to come out in the near future. And when you look at FE changing cast of lords, there really isn't any character more or less important in that class. The only difference is that Roy has the popularity and previously was in Melee.
-His "moveset" was a weaker version of Marth's. Roy and Marth are two completely separate characters. That is the difference between Pichu and Roy. Pichu is literally just baby Pikachu. Moveset changes are inevitable but that is one thing you can't change.
-I agree. That's not an argument that can be used for or against any character.
-That's more of a result of those series being under-repped than FE being over-repped. FE has a pretty decent amount of games under their belt. Plus, with the added fact that we have the clone engine there is a VERY strong possibility that those two franchises will be flushed out some more whether it be Ridley or Dark Samus, Dixie or K.Rool.
-Like Sakurai, the PM Backroomers already said that alternate costumes for characters will stay the same character. This is simply out of respect for each individual character.

 

[Chzrm3]

-Roy certainly wasn't anything awe-inspiring in terms of importance. He was never added in for that in the first place though. He was used as advertising for his game that was to come out in the near future. And when you look at FE changing cast of lords, there really isn't any character more or less important in that class. The only difference is that Roy has the popularity and previously was in Melee.
-His "moveset" was a weaker version of Marth's. Roy and Marth are two completely separate characters. That is the difference between Pichu and Roy. Pichu is literally just baby Pikachu. Moveset changes are inevitable but that is one think you can't change.
-I agree. That's not an argument that can be used for or against any character.
-That's more of a result of those series being under-repped than FE being over-repped. FE has a pretty decent amount of games under their belt. Plus, with the added fact that we have the clone engine there is a VERY strong possibility that those two franchises will be flushed out some more whether it be Ridley or Dark Samus, Dixie or K.Rool.
-Like Sakurai, the PM Backroomers already said that alternate costumes for characters will stay the same character. This is simply out of respect for each individual character.

Oh yeah, I know - I was just countering his Pichu argument by pointing out that a lot of that stuff applies to Roy, as well. I've always wanted Roy to return. =) For example, he had mentioned that Pichu could be an alt costume for Pikachu - so I pointed out that you can say the same about Roy. Neither Pichu nor Roy are Pikachu or Marth, so the argument doesn't really hold for either character.

 

[ChronoBound]

it would be nice to see an Eliwood costume for Roy, however. (NOT a reskin, just Roy wearing Eliwood's FE7 outfit.)

That would be a nice bonus for sure. Personally, Eliwood is my favorite FE lord outside of Smash Bros. He is probably the most underrated lord (both as an actual character and as an unit) in the entire Fire Emblem series.

 

[the_suicide_fox]

While I still have yet to play Project M, I'd like to throw in my votes.

1. Black Shadow/Ganondorf - I would love this, basically we get 2 characters for the price of 1. Black Shadow would make a lot more sense as a C.Falcon clone, and the moveset is already there. Ganondorf should have had an original moveset in Brawl and I think it's time to give the dark wizard a make-over. I would imagine making him a projectile character like Samus or Link. Maybe give him the ability to levitate like Mewtwo.

2. Dark Samus/Metroid Prime Hunter - I would really like this, Samus was always a really fun character. I know Dark Samus is more popular, but it might be more interesting to have one of the hunters from the DS game, like Kanden. The moveset could be more or less the same, but since he is a different character altogether there could be more room to make him at least feel like less of a clone.

3. Bowser Jr. - I have a feeling we might see him in Smash 4, but I think he would be a really fun character. I'd imagine he would be a semi-clone of Bowser, but with faster less powerful attacks and maybe a few that are uniquely his. Forward smash could somehow use the paintbrush, and maybe his neutral B is he throws a paintball which makes the ground slippery and causes poison-like damage over time if it gets on you.

4. Tails - He's a fox, we need more foxes, I vote Tails. He could have a hover ability like Peach, and his specials could be much like Sonic's without the speed. Normal should be unique though, at least a few.

5. Master Hand - Yea not the boss version, but maybe a master hand that lost his power and now has to walk and fight amongst the rest of the cast. He would need unique moves, but I'm sure there could be some inspiration from the boss version. IDK might be interesting.

Also I reserve the right to change my list if any others pop into my head. I pretty much just went with the suggestions in the OP.

I'd also like to downvote Pichu. I think he would be better as an alt costume (but only if Raichu is also an alt). He was a joke character in Melee. We have enough Pokemon, with the most popular already in the game.

 

[Dark Sonic]

I don't really have problems with Fire Emblem getting 4 reps (with one being a clone). The series has THIRTEEN games (well, two of them is a remake but...yeah that's still a lot of games). It's even getting a crossover game with Shin Megami Tensei.

I'm also incredibly biased because I love the series and also love swords.

<3 Guy

 

[Fortress]

That would be a nice bonus for sure. Personally, Eliwood is my favorite FE lord outside of Smash Bros. He is probably the most underrated lord (both as an actual character and as an unit) in the entire Fire Emblem series.

He (Eliwood) and Ephiram are some of my favorites. Though, Ike takes the cake for me, with Path of Radiance being my favorite game in the entire series. I feel like Eliwood and Ephiram have a lot in common, both personality-wise, and with their brash, trusty sidekick.

Spoiler

I don't really have problems with Fire Emblem getting 4 reps (with one being a clone). The series has THIRTEEN games (well, two of them is a remake but...yeah that's still a lot of games). It's even getting a crossover game with Shin Megami Tensei.

I'm also incredibly biased because I love the series and also love swords.

<3 Guy

In regards to your signature, Joshua would win in that fight, and you know it. I WENT THERE. Let's break it down:

+Better base stats and growths than Marissa
+Larger potential since you acquire him earlier
+Back story takes us on a feels trip
+Personality-wise; just perfect

Joshua > Marissa.

 

[Fortress]

5. Master Hand - Yea not the boss version, but maybe a master hand that lost his power and now has to walk and fight amongst the rest of the cast. He would need unique moves, but I'm sure there could be some inspiration from the boss version. IDK might be interesting.

What, like Glover? Glover was ****ing cool.

 

[Eisen]

Again, I didn't personally completely agree with the decision to implement Roy, but like I also said, I can forgo my personal taste in characters to realize that Roy is popular, easier to implement, and in fact a different person altogether. And I mean, I kind of liked Roy too, even if I think he's redundant. I always thought he was cooler than Marth back in my early Melee days. Not that I used him, but...

The only reason this (multiple fighrters for the same person) works for characters like Link is because in a lot of the Zelda games, you switch between being young/Toon Link and adult Link with each game, or time travel within a single game.

To be clear by the way, I have less problems with implementing Pichu IF the PMBR states they will never use up all 5 remaining clone engine slots. My opinion is simply that it is redundant to have Pichu fill up a slot that could still potentially be used for a NEW CHARACTER. I don't think you guys understand the implications of this. Whether it happens in demo 3.0, the first "full" release or the second or whatever, a new character ultimately has a lot more potential than Pichu does.

You can disagree with my opinion, but the facts are that few people like Pichu, even when compared to characters who haven't even appeared in Smash yet. I guarantee Ridley, another F-Zero character, Isaac, Dixie, Bowser Jr., and King K Rool all have bigger fanbases. You also cannot deny the fact that the number of Pokemon in Project M is already overwhelming, and that it would be more fair to ~everyone~ (if all the clone engine slots are to be filled) if new characters who may not even make it into Smash 4 deserve a place in the roster before Pichu does. Pichu has had his chance, and he's unpopular. Please also realize that it is a fact that it's kind of spitting in the face of other fanbases to act entitled to another Pokemon "because Melee".

Even if it turns out not all slots are going to be used, and it turns out they do add Pichu, I will be frustrated that I have another MU to learn that I'll probably play like 5 times against and get my butt handed to me because nobody plays him. However, here's the difference between myself and the Pichu supporters: I can accept Pichu if he's actually put in if the PMBR gives a legitimate reason for putting him in. Though, ultimately I can't really refuse them at that point anyway, so...

Edit: Yeah, after watching footage of Pichu, I really don't see what legitimate reason they'd have besides "because Melee".

Honestly PMBR, give Pikachu some of Pichu's good traits if possible, add an alt Costume for Pichu, and call it a day. Please?

...

Actually, scratch that. I just looked up videos of Pichu's Melee moveset... My god, it really was the same. It's literally Pikachu's moveset but different speed/jumping, a different bair and usmash, taunt.... And it's all basically worse than Pikachu's and all improved by Pikachu's PM moveset. I reaffirm that Pichu is not different enough to warrant the PMBR's time. If you really wanted Pichu in, he'd either have to be almost exactly like Pikachu to compensate for his weaknesses, or be completely re-made, so the point about someone liking how he plays is then irrelevant. He won't be the same. It's not just this part, though. If that were the case, Roy would be in the same category... but again, he's... popular, and not in an over-rep'd series. See how we keep coming back to the same point here?

Also I apologize for disappearing. My internet randomly cut out last night and I've been sick, so there wasn't any point in me stating awake any longer.

 

[Solbliminal]

I don't think there should be anymore Pokemon reps...........unless it is Missingno. -bricked-

 

[the_suicide_fox]

What, like Glover? Glover was ****ing cool.

Yea that was my idea, but maybe his specials are like the the boss version in some way. Neutral B he could make the gun pose and shoot bullet bills. Down B could the ground smack and act like Bowser's attack. Side B could be hover + laser fingertips. Not sure what up B could be, maybe the flying hand attack, but work similar to MK's up B?

 

[Tesla_Coil]

I think he would be better as an alt costume (but only if Raichu is also an alt).

I'm not really a fan of Pichu getting in, mainly because I think we have a nice diversity of pokemon with different styles at the moment, and even though the PMBR could accentuate his strengths and make him a viable character, I don't think it makes much sense for a pre-evolution of Pikachu to be a viable character. That said, I won't entirely mind if he got in.

However, I don't think it makes any sense that people are suggesting Pichu as an alt costume. The PMBR have already stated that they are just using alternative costumes, not different characters (so no Rosalina for Peach). Also, Pichu's body is significantly different from Pikachu, and would not work with Pikachu's current moveset. Furthermore, if you watch the Dr. Mario reveal video (Mario turbo) you can see that one of the silhouettes is Pikachu wearing his iconic birthday hat, so that is definitely going to be his alt costume. No Pichu or Raichu.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

There are plenty of people in this thread not being ignorant or stupid. Don't just apply a blank statement to everyone, its extremely condescending and disingenuous.

Secondly, I have brought up many legitimate points in this thread.

It wasn't a blanket statement, I was applying it solely to you from what I've seen so far, everyone else seems to be just doing it for fun, whereas you seem to act as if this small poll is representing what every smash player wants, it's ingorant

And legitimate points for what exactly?

You're an angry dude, man.

Haha if you say so

Anyways, you keep ranting about how people here don't represent anything. Consider two things:

1) This is not a typical game you buy in the stores. You have to be a fan enough of Smash Bros to go out and download it. Most of the people who are savvy enough to do that will be forum goers, and this is the official forum for P:M. The voices here are MUCH more representative of the fan base than some Joe Shmo fan site.

Except that this mod is targeted towards every Joe Shmo who wants to play a cool SSB game, at least that's what I've thought, that this is for everyone, so every and any person should have their voices represented and not such a small group of ignorant elitists who think their opinion matters more just because they were here first

2) Power of statistics. You can never poll the whole population.

No but you can do much better than 20+ votes, if a poll were to have any significance, the PMBR should list it on their site, how many people have downloaded this mod? 40,000? I can't remember exactly, but I think most if not every person who has downloaded this would want to have a say in what other characters are added, and they should, it's possible to do a much better poll than this and so until such a poll is taken I don't think it's fair for you to say that this 20+ poll represents what all of those 40,000 people want/this poll matters more than what those people want

And yes, like I said, there are stupid votes, coming from possibly stupid people.

And then you have the arrogance to say some votes are better than others, it's sad to see someone look down on other people's opinions

 

[ChronoBound]

It wasn't a blanket statement, I was applying it solely to you from what I've seen so far, everyone else seems to be just doing it for fun, whereas you seem to act as if this small poll is representing what every smash player wants, it's ingorant
And legitimate points for what exactly?

I have not been acting like that.

Secondly, you are acting very obnoxious.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

I have not been acting like that.

Secondly, you are acting very obnoxious.

You have, but if you really don't believe this poll accurately represents what the majority of what P:M players want and you're really just doing this for fun then I apologize for thinking you did believe that

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

Oh yeah, I know - I was just countering his Pichu argument by pointing out that a lot of that stuff applies to Roy, as well. I've always wanted Roy to return. =) For example, he had mentioned that Pichu could be an alt costume for Pikachu - so I pointed out that you can say the same about Roy. Neither Pichu nor Roy are Pikachu or Marth, so the argument doesn't really hold for either character.

The other thing about Pokemon in general however is that the characters have plenty of other moves they can learn, and a nearly infinite number of possible combinations of moves. On it's own Pichu can canonically learn Charm, Nasty Plot, and Thunder Wave (that paralyzes foes like ZSS's paralyzer). it can learn moves like endure, flail, thunder punch, and even toxic of all things via breeding. (according to Bulbapedia).

At this point, people either want him or they don't, so I don't mean to beat a dead horse.

It really is mindboggling that Sakurai hasn't considered Ridley as playable by this point if the stage hazard rumors are true.

 

[ChronoBound]

You have,

No way I have been obnoxious in this thread.

 

[ChronoBound]

\

It really is mindboggling that Sakurai hasn't considered Ridley as playable by this point if the stage hazard rumors are true.

Its not "rumors". Its stuff Sakurai has been hinting at. When the Pyrosphere (where you fight Ridley in Other M) was shown, Sakurai's Miiverse comment was "an enemy from Samus's past could appear at any moment.". He later showed an update that showed a giant hole in the Pyrosphere that isn't visibile in normal gameplay, which theoretically could be where Ridley could fly in and out of the stage.

However, there is the possibility that Sakurai is just trolling Ridley fans, though I don't think Sakurai would be that mean spirited.

As I said, one of the downsides about Sakurai is that he makes the game mostly through a Japanese perspective so stuff like Metroid and Golden Sun is going to be more overlooked.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

Its not "rumors". Its stuff Sakurai has been hinting at. When the Pyrosphere (where you fight Ridley in Other M) was shown, Sakurai's Miiverse comment was "an enemy from Samus's past could appear at any moment.". He later showed an update that showed a giant hole in the Pyrosphere that isn't visibile in normal gameplay, which theoretically could be where Ridley could fly in and out of the stage.

However, there is the possibility that Sakurai is just trolling Ridley fans, though I don't think Sakurai would be that mean spirited.

As I said, one of the downsides about Sakurai is that he makes the game mostly through a Japanese perspective so stuff like Metroid and Golden Sun is going to be more overlooked.

Watch the "enemy from Samus' past" end up being none other than....

Spoiler

 

[Anti Guy]

Except that this mod is targeted towards every Joe Shmo who wants to play a cool SSB game, at least that's what I've thought, that this is for everyone, so every and any person should have their voices represented and not such a small group of ignorant elitists who think their opinion matters more just because they were here first

Well then what you're operating on the wrong assumpton. I highly doubt your every Joe Shmo will go out and pick up P:M. By the nature of its very existence it favors more hardcore fans who have the will to go and find this mod (KEYWORD) to put on their Wii.

And then you have the arrogance to say some votes are better than others, it's sad to see someone look down on other people's opinions

...are you serious? You're the one who started ranting about how stupid the votes here were and how they make this whole thing illegitimate.

At least I won't be a hypocrite. There are stupid votes. I've said it. It's my opinion, and everyone is entitled to theirs. And I don't care either, because they won't matter anyways.

 

[Chzrm3]

To be clear by the way, I have less problems with implementing Pichu IF the PMBR states they will never use up all 5 remaining clone engine slots. My opinion is simply that it is redundant to have Pichu fill up a slot that could still potentially be used for a NEW CHARACTER. I don't think you guys understand the implications of this. Whether it happens in demo 3.0, the first "full" release or the second or whatever, a new character ultimately has a lot more potential than Pichu does.

Oooooo, I see. I'd still personally want him, but I can totally understand where you're coming from there. Cause right now, I see him as a returning Melee vet who's easier to make than most other character choices, because he's so similar to Pikachu. But if you're looking at it from the PoV of "there are only 5 more spaces, and Pichu eats one", then yeah, I feel you.

As I said, one of the downsides about Sakurai is that he makes the game mostly through a Japanese perspective so stuff like Metroid and Golden Sun is going to be more overlooked.

This used to bug me, too, but then Playstation All stars happened. That roster was atrocious, and gave me nightmares. : > I was so excited for that game, and I loved it when it came out, but I'm pretty sure the bizarre roster cost them a ton of sales and single-handedly buried that potential franchise.

Ever since that game, I've really appreciated how fair Sakurai is, when he could just as easily be really biased and only put in the games and characters he likes. A good example of this is Kirby - he waited until Brawl to get MK and Dedede in the game, even though he'd made those guys and probably really wanted them to be part of the game. Meanwhile, in PSASBR, the devs pretty much added any character they'd worked on/liked, including really obscure ones like Fat Princess that nobody asked for or wanted. XD

Sorry, not trying to make this a Playstation All Stars issue. It just made me realize that Sakurai, for all his quirks and silly tendencies, is still the right man when it comes to roster creation.

Now as far as balance/gameplay tuning goes... MMMMMM NOT SO MUCH

 

[DayLaMike]

Actually, scratch that. I just looked up videos of Pichu's Melee moveset... My god, it really was the same. It's literally Pikachu's moveset but different speed/jumping, a different bair and usmash, taunt.... And it's all basically worse than Pikachu's and all improved by Pikachu's PM moveset. I reaffirm that Pichu is not different enough to warrant the PMBR's time. If you really wanted Pichu in, he'd either have to be almost exactly like Pikachu to compensate for his weaknesses, or be completely re-made, so the point about someone liking how he plays is then irrelevant. He won't be the same. It's not just this part, though. If that were the case, Roy would be in the same category... but again, he's... popular, and not in an over-rep'd series. See how we keep coming back to the same point here?

I don't feel as though you have an accurate perception of Pichu or Pikachu as characters. You could literally come to same conclusion watching videos of any clone characters moveset. It shows you haven't spent enough time with either character to understand just how different they are from each other. To give Pichu's best aspects to Pikachu would completely compromise P:M Pikachu's character design. Pikachu was taken in a good direction and has acquired many good things from all the smash games. Pikachu would not be Pikachu anymore if what you keep suggesting was done.

I also feel as though you are underestimating what the developers are truly capable of. What makes you think that they would have to either keep Pichu a Mirror of Pikachu or turn it into something completely foreign? Have you seen the incredible job this group has done with Roy? They buffed him and gave him a few new moves but his play style looks to be completely unchanged. I've played Roy quite a bit and he looks very true to his melee incarnation just much better. These guys aim to preserve the playstyles of these characters. The same applies to mewtwo. If Pichu were added they would take the same exact approach. We would be getting the Pichu we want just much better.

Lastly Oversaturation/over rep'd is a moot point. The whole point of this Mod is to give Brawl competitive value and act as a middle ground between Brawl and Melee. Leave the franchise representation to Nintendo, that's their job not the Project M developers.

 

[shinhed-echi]

Leave the franchise representation to Nintendo, that's their job not the Project M developers.

This sentence right here is just... GOLD!