New Characters for Project M Discussion Thread (Voting Closed)

[trojanpooh]

Also worth mentioning that the PMBR did a fake reveal for him at the end of the April Fools trailer. To not add him would be extremely douchey at this point.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Okay, nothing personal to anybody, but I've merely skimmed through this thread and seen way more Pichu upvotes than there should be.

I just.... don't understand. Why? Why, why why? Assuming all 5 slots would even be used up at some point in PM's development, why on Earth can anyone in their right mind feel like Pichu deserves to even be CONSIDERED? He was bottom tier in Melee, a joke character, not a fan-favorite Pokemon, and most importantly, just a weaker version of Pikachu. Let's not forget there's already 7 Pokemon playable in Project M. Seven. That's more than MARIO, and Mario's like the ****ing poster-child franchise of Nintendo. Come on.

I don't understand what's so hard about just being reasonable and wanting Pikachu to have an alt costume like Doctor Mario (Whom was ALSO for SOME REASON[?????] also a consideration for some people as a clone character) that's simply Pichu. Boom; it's Pichu but 50 times better, and no clone character slot used. This character should not even be an OPTION for voting for, not when there's debate still on which of several series need to be rep'd/rep'd more.

You seem to base your possible returning melee characters off tier list, forgetting that Project M has turned bottom tier trash into top tier beasts (examples being Bowser and Ganondorf). Also, you said that Pichu should just be a Pikachu alt., but that would conflict with hit-boxes and the PMBR has already said that they won`t make a alt. have different body proportions. You seem to think that if Pichu made it in he wouldn`t be changed at all and that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

 

[Deleted member]

Frankly, Pichu should have never been a playable Smash character in the first place. He is just a smaller, less significant version of Pikachu. In the Pokemon games, Pichu is 100% inferior to Pikachu, so making him faster/stronger in any way is simply dumb. He has all the same powers as Pikachu, just weaker. The only unique thing ever mentioned about him is that he damages himself when using electrical attacks, and the Pichu fans want to get rid of that.

The only reason anybody wants Pichu is because he was in Melee. If it wasn't for that, he wouldn't even register on the radar. People would laugh at the idea of including him and would question why anybody would want to waste space on such a trivial character in place of countless other Nintendo characters. You'd have an easier time arguing in favor of including Togepi - at least Togepi had a significant amount of airtime in the anime and had her own unique abilities.

Pichu gets a big fat no from me.

 

[Hungry Headcrab]

You seem to base your possible returning melee characters off tier list, forgetting that Project M has turned bottom tier trash into top tier beasts (examples being Bowser and Ganondorf). Also, you said that Pichu should just be a Pikachu alt., but that would conflict with hit-boxes and the PMBR has already said that they won`t make a alt. have different body proportions. You seem to think that if Pichu made it in he wouldn`t be changed at all and that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Ganondorf was never "bottom tier trash" in Melee: http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBM_tier_lists_(NTSC).

Also, I don't think anybody thinks Ganondorf is a "top tier beast" in Project M.

I'm sure the PMBR could make interesting changes to Pichu and make him viable. That said, I don't know if it would be worth the trouble.

 

[trojanpooh]

The only unique thing ever mentioned about him is that he damages himself when using electrical attacks, and the Pichu fans want to get rid of that.

What thread have you been reading? Literally none of the Pichu fans have suggested getting rid of it yet. And Pichu has tons of unique stuff going on for him. If you're going to argue against a character the least you could do is actually do a bit of research/field work.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Ganondorf was never "bottom tier trash" in Melee: http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBM_tier_lists_(NTSC).

Also, I don't think anybody thinks Ganondorf is a "top tier beast" in Project M.

I'm sure the PMBR could make interesting changes to Pichu and make him viable. That said, I don't know if it would be worth the trouble.

I was talking about Brawl Ganondorf and by top tier beast I was mostly referring to bowser. I should have been more specific, my bad.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Since when had Ganondorf been bottom tier?...

oh Brawl lol never mind

@ the guy a page or two back who made a snarky comment about Ganondorf being changed to appeal to LoZ fanboys... well... I had one of my sister's friends who had never played smash before try it out. and being a LoZ fan, he flipped out when he saw Ganondorf in the character selection.

so we went into a match so i could explain the controls and the first thing he asked was how to do the electric ball attack. he was actually very dissapointed. he loved Link and thought the Zelda/Sheik thing was very interesting, and wondered who designed Ganondorf because "They obviously knew nothing about the character."

Captian Ganondorf is not remotely a good representation of the character. it'd be like adding King K Rool, giving him his blunderbuss and then giving him DDD's moveset. because they have a similar bone structure, and the weapons look sorta similar

LoZ fanboys would be the people that a unique Ganondorf would be made for, whether in Project M or Smash 4.

Ganondorf mains would likely play Black Shadow because it is not the look of the character that would matter, it would be the moveset that they would care about. at least I would THINK so lol

 

[trojanpooh]

LoZ fanboys would be the people that a unique Ganondorf would be made for, whether in Project M or Smash 4.

Ganondorf mains would likely play Black Shadow because it is not the look of the character that would matter, it would be the moveset that they would care about. at least I would THINK so lol

What about LoZ fanboys who main Ganondorf like me and a big handful of my friends? We're left in the dark because we play as Ganondorf due to both reasons in one.

 

[Deleted member]

What thread have you been reading? Literally none of the Pichu fans have suggested getting rid of it yet. And Pichu has tons of unique stuff going on for him. If you're going to argue against a character the least you could do is actually do a bit of research/field work.

Why research do I have to do? I already formulated an opinion of Pichu's inclusion in Smash many years ago, and I don't feel that he is deserving of a spot on the roster at all, let alone possibly in place of some other character.

You also failed to answer this question - if it wasn't for the fact that Pichu was in Melee, would it even cross you mind to include him in Smash?

 

[Eisen]

Also worth mentioning that the PMBR did a fake reveal for him at the end of the April Fools trailer. To not add him would be extremely douchey at this point.

No.

You seem to base your possible returning melee characters off tier list, forgetting that Project M has turned bottom tier trash into top tier beasts (examples being Bowser and Ganondorf). Also, you said that Pichu should just be a Pikachu alt., but that would conflict with hit-boxes and the PMBR has already said that they won`t make a alt. have different body proportions. You seem to think that if Pichu made it in he wouldn`t be changed at all and that is the stupidest thing I have ever heard.

Because Pichu wasn't a weaker version of Pikachu. He was stronger, faster, smaller, and had a completely different playstyle. The only reasons why he's lower tier than Pikachu is his weight and reduced movepool due to the "don't get hit" playstyle of Smash Bros. He was a really unique character who's mechanic has a lot of potential as something great were it actually balanced properly. As for the low tier argument, I guess all those people who were crossing their fingers for Mewtwo were wrong to do so, right? And be reasonable, do you honestly expect the PMBR to use all 7 slots? Like, ever? Pichu is the last unrepresented character from the Melee roster and should return as a unique fighter. Just because you didn't spend the time to learn how to play as Pichu properly doesn't mean he has nothing to offer.

Please. Stop trying so hard to make a case for a character who has more than one reason to not be included or considered.

Not gonna lie. This is about to get harsh because I love this game and I really do not feel like tolerating what I see as interference, so I'm going to be as honest as I know to be and expressive, though be aware that, again, it's nothing personal. Cannot stress this enough.

All I see is a lot of focusing on the phrase "he's bottom tier in Melee" which I admit I should have worded better, but ultimately was meant to go with the other statements, meaning that basically Pichu's a "bottom-tier joke character whom also happens to be basically a worse version of a more-liked, more known, more-favored, and more RELEVANT character (Pikachu)". So, it's all of those things... in one character. Of course I don't mean that "bottom tiers shouldn't be in PM derp herp" because that completely ruins the point of Project M. If you're not to include low tiers in PM you might as well just have Vanilla Melee + MK Diddy Oli and Snake. Which is of course ridiculous.

Okay, Pichu has a "different playstyle" probably as much as Falco has a different Playstyle from Fox or less. I get that. They're different. But come on, the game is over-saturated with Pokemon as it is. And people still want to A) Waste the PMBR's time with essentially an unlikeable copy Pokemon, B) reduce the number of possible slots for other characters/add to the already-ridiculous number of Pokemon in the game and C) give everybody another MU to learn to fight against using a character whose differences from its clone and its popularity combine hardly warrant putting any effort into it at all? It'd be like "ok guys I gotta learn to fight Pikachu... and then I gotta learn to fight dumber Pikachu." Enthralling.

I have to stress that I wasn't saying anything about PM not needing to include characters like Bowser or Mewtwo. Mewtwo's A) Popular B) completely different from any other playstyle in the game currently and C) Actually frequently requested for Smash4/PM characters. Also some of the most popular hacks involve Mewtwo imports/PSAs. You can't say that about Pichu.

If we're to use the logic of "oh I like this character and they have x flair so they DESERVE several hundred hours of work (and all the other cons I mentioned for Pichu)" then YL fans would totally be justified in acting like it was ridiculous if somebody said to them that YL doesn't deserve the PMBR's time, right? Because he's "~different~" AKA inferior clone/ version of a character that's already in the game (TL).

As for the model, it's really not hard to use a Pichu model over Pikachu and have it look decent. A few hitboxes may not make sense, but you don't have to re-proportion a model (At all) for it to work on a character whose anatomy is basically the same. Pichu is literally baby Pikachu for goodness sake.

Of course if Pichu were put in PM he'd be made different. Which would completely invalidate any argument about "I like Pichu's playstyle". It sucks. He sucks. It can't be recreated like some of you might think it could be. And frankly, time is better spent elsewhere. Having the audacity to claim Pichu has a place above anyone else is like someone doing the same about a Melee low-tier's moveset. Like Bowser. "Plz put in Melee Bowser, he was different from new Bowser". One can't just look at one factor. It's not just uniqueness we're concerned about here. Feasibility, popularity, and the character's ultimate potential based on their known moveset or their possible movesets all need to be taken into account.

If somebody wants to play Pichu that badly, they should just use an imported model over it. Even if Pichu is different, ultimately that difference felt was only optimized in the form of Pikachu's PM moveset. Like.... Trying to vouch for liking how Pichu plays and using that as a good reason to place Pichu above anyone else is just as much playing favorites as it would be for somebody to say....... I dunno, like, "I like how ReDeads play in Melee Adventure mode, plz put in PM".

Again, I reiterate: The PMBR would make an awful mistake if they made Pichu a separate Clone Engine character.

Also Red Text is lol.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Why research do I have to do? I already formulated an opinion of Pichu's inclusion in Smash many years ago, and I don't feel that he is deserving of a spot on the roster at all, let alone possibly in place of some other character.

You also failed to answer this question - if it wasn't for the fact that Pichu was in Melee, would it even cross you mind to include him in Smash?

So your taking YOUR opinion of Pichu`s inclusion and applying it to EVERYBODY.

 

[Shadow Huan]

What about LoZ fanboys who main Ganondorf like me and a big handful of my friends? We're left in the dark because we play as Ganondorf due to both reasons in one.

... you play Ganondorf because he's Captian Ganondorf... but also because you want him to be unique?

I don't think I quite understand lol

and my King K Rool DDD comparasion still stands lol

 

[Eisen]

Ganondorf was never "bottom tier trash" in Melee: http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_SSBM_tier_lists_(NTSC).

Also, I don't think anybody thinks Ganondorf is a "top tier beast" in Project M.

I'm sure the PMBR could make interesting changes to Pichu and make him viable. That said, I don't know if it would be worth the trouble.

Here, have a more eloquent and short-winded version of what I'm getting at.

 

[trojanpooh]

Why research do I have to do? I already formulated an opinion of Pichu's inclusion in Smash many years ago, and I don't feel that he is deserving of a spot on the roster at all, let alone possibly in place of some other character.

You also failed to answer this question - if it wasn't for the fact that Pichu was in Melee, would it even cross you mind to include him in Smash?

Your question is irrelevant. Pichu was in Melee and I and lot of other people enjoyed playing as him. So when a hack comes along claiming to be the sequel Melee should have had and offers to expand the roster you bet I'm going to want Pichu back. As for if I'd think to include him if he wasn't, I'd think of him a helluva lot sooner than ROB or Mr. Game & Watch, and I played my fair share of G&W Gallery games on my Gameboy. Especially considering that most characters added will probably be at the very least semi-clones, I've been thinking of characters that would make good clones of characters who don't have clones yet. First thing you think of when you think of a Pikachu clone? Pichu and Raichu.

I'm not saying you aren't entitled to your opinion, but when you make sweeping generalizations like that the only thing he does that's special is hurt himself it's clear that you don't know what you're talking about. That's fine, of course, but not if you're going to try to debate.

 

[trojanpooh]

... you play Ganondorf because he's Captian Ganondorf... but also because you want him to be unique?

I don't think I quite understand lol

and my King K Rool DDD comparasion still stands lol

No, we play Ganondorf because we like Ganondorf/Zelda but also because we like his moveset. So if he was split from his current moveset we'd be left without a character that makes us happy.

 

[Shadow Huan]

No, we play Ganondorf because we like Ganondorf/Zelda but also because we like his moveset. So if he was split from his current moveset we'd be left without a character that makes us happy.

you wouldn't be happier with a true to the character Ganondorf huh? even though he's already basically Black Shadow with a Ganondorf skin?

*shrugs* eh, to each their own

 

[Eisen]

So if I'm understanding properly the criteria for new characters are:

- Clone

or

- Pikachu Clone

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

So if I'm understanding properly the criteria for new characters are:

- Clone

or

- Pikachu Clone

No, no, no.

The criteria is:

Melee............ bcuz Melee

 

[Eisen]

I can't wait until Adventure Mode becomes a playable character.

Get hype guys.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

I can't wait until Adventure Mode becomes a playable character.

Get hype guys.

I`m personally waiting for Wavedash the Wavedash (original character, do not steal)

 

[Eisen]

Gotta go wavedash

Wavedashin' 'round at the speed of wavedash

 

[Deleted member]

Your question is irrelevant.

C'mon, you know it's a very relevant question. All you continue to do is dance around having to answer it.

Don't you think it's a wee bit silly to think that Pichu, a character you know nobody would suggest to include in Smash if it wasn't for the fact that he was a joke character in Melee, should take precedence over more significant and/or unique Nintendo characters other people want?

And apart from that, don't you think it would be silly to have Pichu be a stronger and/or faster character than Pikachu when all Pichu is known for in Pokemon is being a cute yet completely inferior Pikachu?

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Gotta go wavedash

Wavedashin' 'round at the speed of wavedash

Gotta wavedash fast, gotta wavedash fast, gotta wavedash faster, faster, faster, faster, faster, Wavedash X!

 

[trojanpooh]

No.




Please. Stop trying so hard to make a case for a character who has more than one reason to not be included or considered.

Personally I think Pichu is a lot more likely than most of the absurd requests I see on this thread.

Not gonna lie. This is about to get harsh because I love this game and I really do not feel like tolerating what I see as interference, so I'm going to be as honest as I know to be and expressive, though be aware that, again, it's nothing personal. Cannot stress this enough.

None taken. I understand that this is a controversial topic.

All I see is a lot of focusing on the phrase "he's bottom tier in Melee" which I admit I should have worded better, but ultimately was meant to go with the other statements, meaning that basically Pichu's a "bottom-tier joke character whom also happens to be basically a worse version of a more-liked, more known, more-favored, and more RELEVANT character (Pikachu)". So, it's all of those things... in one character. Of course I don't mean that "bottom tiers shouldn't be in PM derp herp" because that completely ruins the point of Project M. If you're not to include low tiers in PM you might as well just have Vanilla Melee + MK Diddy Oli and Snake. Which is of course ridiculous.

A large number of the most beloved Smash characters aren't popular from their own games. I don't honestly see how anything you've said is relevant. Pichu does have his fans and were he balanced properly he'd get even more of them.

Okay, Pichu has a "different playstyle" probably as much as Falco has a different Playstyle from Fox or less. I get that. They're different. But come on, the game is over-saturated with Pokemon as it is. And people still want to A) Waste the PMBR's time with essentially an unlikeable copy Pokemon, B) reduce the number of possible slots for other characters/add to the already-ridiculous number of Pokemon in the game and C) give everybody another MU to learn to fight against using a character whose differences from its clone and its popularity combine hardly warrant putting any effort into it at all? It'd be like "ok guys I gotta learn to fight Pikachu... and then I gotta learn to fight dumber Pikachu." Enthralling.

A) Any character not specifically picked by the PMBR would be "a waste". That includes the most oft requested characters too if no one in the PMBR was interested.
B) Pokemon is one of the biggest Nintendo franchises both in sales, popularity, and cast of characters. I don't see how a large number is a problem. In an official release, sure but this isn't an official release. It doesn't need to follow the rules. Besides, the last 4 slots could be used on any other IP to nerf the Pokemon ratio
C) I don't understand how this could be even the slightest of a bad thing. If anything Pichu would be more accommodating to people afraid to learn new MUs because he'd play similarly to how he did in Melee but better.

I have to stress that I wasn't saying anything about PM not needing to include characters like Bowser or Mewtwo. Mewtwo's A) Popular B) completely different from any other playstyle in the game currently and C) Actually frequently requested for Smash4/PM characters. Also some of the most popular hacks involve Mewtwo imports/PSAs. You can't say that about Pichu.

No argument here.

If we're to use the logic of "oh I like this character and they have x flair so they DESERVE several hundred hours of work (and all the other cons I mentioned for Pichu)" then YL fans would totally be justified in acting like it was ridiculous if somebody said to them that YL doesn't deserve the PMBR's time, right? Because he's "~different~" AKA inferior clone/ version of a character that's already in the game (TL).

I've never said it's ridiculous that people disagree with my sentiment. Just because we have different opinions and they're clashing doesn't mean I think any less of any of the people I'm arguing with. But the facts are I've yet to see anyone request YL yet there seems to be at least a small following for Pichu. And again, Pichu can retain what made him unique and be properly balanced with the rest of the roster. He isn't just Pikachu with nerfed stats. He's his own character who just happens to be worse in Melee.

As for the model, it's really not hard to use a Pichu model over Pikachu and have it look decent. A few hitboxes may not make sense, but you don't have to re-proportion a model (At all) for it to work on a character whose anatomy is basically the same. Pichu is literally baby Pikachu for goodness sake.

As someone who's a huge fan of Pichu I can say that yes it is. And my friends and I take the hitboxes very seriously so anything that's off would be a big deal. Plus I hate the way Pikachu plays.

Of course if Pichu were put in PM he'd be made different. Which would completely invalidate any argument about "I like Pichu's playstyle". It sucks. He sucks. It can't be recreated like some of you might think it could be. And frankly, time is better spent elsewhere. Having the audacity to claim Pichu has a place above anyone else is like someone doing the same about a Melee low-tier's moveset. Like Bowser. "Plz put in Melee Bowser, he was different from new Bowser". One can't just look at one factor. It's not just uniqueness we're concerned about here. Feasibility, popularity, and the character's ultimate potential based on their known moveset or their possible movesets all need to be taken into account.

Funny, because last I checked new Bowser plays like old Bowser but better. Mewtwo is essentially still Mewtwo but better. Zelda is Zelda but better. Mario is Mario but better. See where I'm going with this? Balancing characters while retaining what made them special is not only totally feasible, but has been done numerous times by the PMBR.

If somebody wants to play Pichu that badly, they should just use an imported model over it. Even if Pichu is different, ultimately that difference felt was only optimized in the form of Pikachu's PM moveset. Like.... Trying to vouch for liking how Pichu plays and using that as a good reason to place Pichu above anyone else is just as much playing favorites as it would be for somebody to say....... I dunno, like, "I like how ReDeads play in Melee Adventure mode, plz put in PM".

Again, I reiterate: The PMBR would make an awful mistake if they made Pichu a separate Clone Engine character.

Also Red Text is lol.

No it's really not. Pikachu and Pichu play differently. They feel nothing alike. Project M Pikachu plays like a better Pikachu, not like Pichu. And in case you haven't noticed nobody is "placing Pichu above the rest of the roster" any more than other people are "placing [insert character they want] above the rest of the roster". And that Redead analogy is absurd and you know it. Pichu is a playable character.

Again, I reiterate: The PMBR made an awful mistake teasing Pichu if they don't plan on following through.

Edit: SmashFromThePast, maybe actually read the rest of my post before responding?

 

[Chzrm3]

Again, I reiterate: The PMBR would make an awful mistake if they made Pichu a separate Clone Engine character.

Also Red Text is lol.

Can't you apply pretty much everything you're saying about Pichu to Roy, as well?

Roy's not very important in the grand scheme of Nintendo characters.
He was a weaker version of Marth, and Marth's playstyle is already being represented by Marth.
It would take a tremendous amount of work and energy to bring Roy back to Brawl.
His mechanics and stats would have to be changed for him to be a viable competitive fighter, meaning he wouldn't play quite like Melee Roy.
There's already two Fire Emblem reps, which is a lot for that series when you consider it's the same amount of reps that legendary series like Metroid, DK, etc have been given..
Roy could easily have been a costume for Marth. Sure, a few hitboxes may be different, but they're basically the same anatomically.

Yet Roy was brought back, and the Roy fans (myself included) absolutely love it.

I think the only legitimate argument against bringing back Pichu is that Pokemon has an obscene amount of reps already, so giving them another is just kinda silly. I will concede that 8 reps for any series is ridiculous when, again, DK and Metroid are sitting at 2, but it's not as if the PMBR would be deciding for themselves "let's add another pokemon!" They'd be bringing an old Melee vet back, so it's a lil' different.

 

[ChronoBound]

I think the fact that Pichu is one of the top 5 characters on the "negative" list shows that a lot of people don't want to see him come back (however, to be fair, it was pretty much known before this poll that Pichu was probably the least popular Smash Bros. fighter ever).

Pokemon also has like seven fighters already in Project M.

I still say that they should simply add in Pichu's few positive attributes into Pikachu (like they did with Dr. Mario into Mario and Young Link into Toon Link) and call it a day.

 

[trojanpooh]

Can't you apply pretty much everything you're saying about Pichu to Roy, as well?

Roy's not very important in the grand scheme of Nintendo characters.
He was a weaker version of Marth, and Marth's playstyle is already being represented by Marth.
It would take a tremendous amount of work and energy to bring Roy back to Brawl.
His mechanics and stats would have to be changed for him to be a viable competitive fighter, meaning he wouldn't play quite like Melee Roy.
There's already two Fire Emblem reps, which is a lot for that series when you consider it's the same amount of reps that legendary series like Metroid, DK, etc have been given..
Roy could easily have been a costume for Marth. Sure, a few hitboxes may be different, but they're basically the same anatomically.

Yet Roy was brought back, and the Roy fans (myself included) absolutely love it.

I think the only legitimate argument against bringing back Pichu is that Pokemon has an obscene amount of reps already, so giving them another is just kinda silly. I will concede that 8 reps for any series is ridiculous when, again, DK and Metroid are sitting at 2, but it's not as if the PMBR would be deciding for themselves "let's add another pokemon!" They'd be bringing an old Melee vet back, so it's a lil' different.

Pretty much this. The only reason anyone ever wanted Roy (aside from his tiny fanbase) was because they assumed that was the best we were going to get from the clone engine. We've been working under the assumption that no new articles would ever be created for the longest time and we applied that same logic to the clone engine. Roy was the only character from the old game that had no projectiles so everyone figured better Roy than no one.

 

[ChronoBound]

Pretty much this. The only reason anyone ever wanted Roy (aside from his tiny fanbase) was because they assumed that was the best we were going to get from the clone engine. We've been working under the assumption that no new articles would ever be created for the longest time and we applied that same logic to the clone engine. Roy was the only character from the old game that had no projectiles so everyone figured better Roy than no one.

Roy is actually one of the most wanted characters for Smash 4.

People wanted Roy to return because he was legitimately one of the most popular newcomers from Melee, and a popular Smash Bros. characters in general.

It had nothing to do with "easiness".

The only three Melee veterans where you don't see a massive push for a return in Smash 4 are Dr. Mario, Young Link, and Pichu, and of those three, Doc easily has the biggest fanbase, however, half the time people simply want a Mario that plays more like Dr. Mario and a Dr. Mario costume that throws pills.... which is exactly what the Project M team did.

Throw in that Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario were the only three of the Fallen 5 that Sakurai was intending to bring back for Brawl.

 

[trojanpooh]

Throw in that Mewtwo, Roy, and Dr. Mario were the only three of the Fallen 5 that Sakurai was intending to bring back for Brawl.

What does Sakurai's intentions have to do with anything? The entire point of PM was to fix what Sakurai did wrong. Not saying that Pichu should be added just because Sakurai didn't include him, but saying it's how he had intended it is hardly a good argument when we're talking about Project M.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

What does Sakurai's intentions have to do with anything? The entire point of PM was to fix what Sakurai did wrong. Not saying that Pichu should be added just because Sakurai didn't include him, but saying it's how he had intended it is hardly a good argument when we're talking about Project M.

agreed, if we approach this opportunity with that attitude, we arn`t going to see anything new or special or creative from the PMBR.

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

Okay, nothing personal to anybody, but I've merely skimmed through this thread and seen way more Pichu upvotes than there should be.

I just.... don't understand. Why? Why, why why? Assuming all 5 slots would even be used up at some point in PM's development, why on Earth can anyone in their right mind feel like Pichu deserves to even be CONSIDERED? He was bottom tier in Melee, a joke character, not a fan-favorite Pokemon, and most importantly, just a weaker version of Pikachu. Let's not forget there's already 7 Pokemon playable in Project M. Seven. That's more than MARIO, and Mario's like the ****ing poster-child franchise of Nintendo. Come on.

I don't understand what's so hard about just being reasonable and wanting Pikachu to have an alt costume like Doctor Mario (Whom was ALSO for SOME REASON[?????] also a consideration for some people as a clone character) that's simply Pichu. Boom; it's Pichu but 50 times better, and no clone character slot used. This character should not even be an OPTION for voting for, not when there's debate still on which of several series need to be rep'd/rep'd more.

The "it was crap in Melee" argument is kinda unfair, considering the fantastic job that the PMBR has done with Roy and Mewtwo, as well as other meh/bottom tier characters-- several of whom are also clones. Roy in particular stands out-- he was low tier, a clone, and he's neither top tier nor a fan favorite in his own series.
However, the PMBR is still doing a great job of making him an interesting and dynamic fighter, and they've done a great job updating plenty of other characters from Melee and Brawl who didn't work as well as they could have, such as Bowser, Ness, Link, Donkey Kong Wario, Pit, and so on.
Pichu has a lot of potential to make for an interesting lethal joke character, if not a high-risk/high-reward glass cannon with it's self-damage mechanic and more powerful attacks at the expense of being the game's lightest character. Pichu has several unique mechanics that Pikachu could never get away with having. Pichu's radically different size and proportions wouldn't really make for a feasible alternate costume-- It would be like making Toon Link an alt for Link.

I can understand the concern about having too many pokemon-- outside of that, I don't really think there's much of a reason not to add Pichu.If this were a SSB4 speculation thread, then I would totally understand not wanting Pichu back-- however, we're looking forward to a sequel to Melee-- so why not reunite and update the entire cast? Project M is the PERFECT chance to rescue Pichu from the proverbial "scrappy heap" of hated characters and give him a more interesting playstyle and moveset. At the very least, I think it would be great to see a character with a similar high-risk/high-reward lethal joke playstyle from another series.

The PMBR has worked miracles with so many other characters that didn't really work all that well in Melee and Brawl, but yet and still we continue to assume that Pichu couldn't work because he didn't work in Melee? That's not stopping us from eagerly anticipating the likes of Kirby, who was arguably worse than Pichu was in Melee.
On a completely unrelated note, I have to concur with Fortress that Ganonciding is straight cash money.

 

[ChronoBound]

What does Sakurai's intentions have to do with anything? The entire point of PM was to fix what Sakurai did wrong. Not saying that Pichu should be added just because Sakurai didn't include him, but saying it's how he had intended it is hardly a good argument when we're talking about Project M.

Even ignoring that Mewtwo and Roy are clearly above Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link since they are both far more popular characters and "unique persons" as opposed to alteregos (Pichu is simply a baby Pikachu for example, Doc is Mario in a lab coat, Young Link is simply a younger Link).

The only choices that seem less popular than Pichu are the Sonic trinity (Shadow, Tails, and Knuckles) and Waluigi.

Sure Pichu would require less effort than all of those disdained characters (has a Melee base to go off of and would be a clone), but for many people people will simply think "why the heck did they bring back Pichu of all things".

People here are going to insult me for saying that, but the fact is that Pichu is probably the least popular character in the Smash Bros. franchise (or at least one of the least popular, with the only two possibly competing for that monicker being Dr. Mario and maybe Young Link).

 

[OrangeSodaGuy]

What does Sakurai's intentions have to do with anything? The entire point of PM was to fix what Sakurai did wrong. Not saying that Pichu should be added just because Sakurai didn't include him, but saying it's how he had intended it is hardly a good argument when we're talking about Project M.

This. Brawl was never intended to have a lot of cool things that Melee brought to the table-- technical, fast paced gameplay, an in-depth combo system, etc.

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that the PMBR can somehow bring back end-of-match bonuses and character specific target tests back to Project M, which were never intended for Brawl either.

 

[ChronoBound]

I'm still keeping my fingers crossed that the PMBR can somehow bring back end-of-match bonuses and character specific target tests back to Project M, which were never intended for Brawl either.

The thing is though is that many people don't want Pichu to come back. Whereas for someone like Isaac, whom was also never intended to become playable, lots of people want him to be added in, and has barely anyone against his possible inclusion.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Even ignoring that Mewtwo and Roy are clearly above Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link since they are both far more popular characters and "unique persons" as opposed to alteregos (Pichu is simply a baby Pikachu for example, Doc is Mario in a lab coat, Young Link is simply a younger Link).

The only choices that seem less popular than Pichu are the Sonic trinity (Shadow, Tails, and Knuckles) and Waluigi.

Sure Pichu would require less effort than all of those disdained characters (has a Melee base to go off of and would be a clone), but for many people people will simply think "why the heck did they bring back Pichu of all things".

People here are going to insult me for saying that, but the fact is that Pichu is probably the least popular character in the Smash Bros. franchise (or at least one of the least popular, with the only two possibly competing for that monicker being Dr. Mario and maybe Young Link).

People would also say "Why did they add in Ridley? He`s too big" "why did they add waluigi? Mario has enough reps" "Why would they add Dark Samus? She`s literally just "Dark" Samus". There are also going to be the people who won`t except any characters that weren`t in Melee...... bcuz Melee.

 

[ChronoBound]

People would also say "Why did they add in Ridley? He`s too big" "why did they add waluigi? Mario has enough reps" "Why would they add Dark Samus? She`s literally just "Dark" Samus". There are also going to be the people who won`t except any characters that weren`t in Melee...... bcuz Melee.

Except probably Isaac, every character is at least going to have some whiners (heck, when Roy was first confirmed there people saying "waaah, why didn't they complete Mewtwo instead). The difference is though some characters are getting to be met with far more praise than others, and far less criticism than other's.

A character like a second Sonic character, Waluigi, or Pichu is going to be met with more negative comments than many other characters for example.

 

[Giygacoal]

I'm pretty sure someone posted this a few pages back, but yeah, Ridley just might be possible.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VyvWCMZ4s60

I just don't see interesting moveset potential for Pichu.

 

[trojanpooh]

Even ignoring that Mewtwo and Roy are clearly above Dr. Mario, Pichu, and Young Link since they are both far more popular characters and "unique persons" as opposed to alteregos (Pichu is simply a baby Pikachu for example, Doc is Mario in a lab coat, Young Link is simply a younger Link).

The only choices that seem less popular than Pichu are the Sonic trinity (Shadow, Tails, and Knuckles) and Waluigi.

Sure Pichu would require less effort than all of those disdained characters (has a Melee base to go off of and would be a clone), but for many people people will simply think "why the heck did they bring back Pichu of all things".

People here are going to insult me for saying that, but the fact is that Pichu is probably the least popular character in the Smash Bros. franchise (or at least one of the least popular, with the only two possibly competing for that monicker being Dr. Mario and maybe Young Link).

Only if you rate characters based exclusively on their down votes and only if you include all the absurdly unrealistic dream characters people have been talking about like Saki and Isaac. Pichu is a polarizing character for sure, but he's also a realistic option for the PMBR. The fact that anyone expects all 5 slots to be filled and filled by unique characters is mind boggling. This isn't Smash 4, this is a small fan project being done by nonprofit volunteers as a hobby.

 

[ChronoBound]

We will just agree to disagree then. I am sure the team will make the right decision about Pichu (in the context of the entire Smash Bros. fanbase).

I am personally extremely happy the team brought back Mewtwo and Roy, and gave us a Dr. Mario costume that throws pills.

 

[QQQQQQQ7777777]

Only if you rate characters based exclusively on their down votes and only if you include all the absurdly unrealistic dream characters people have been talking about like Saki and Isaac. Pichu is a polarizing character for sure, but he's also a realistic option for the PMBR. The fact that anyone expects all 5 slots to be filled and filled by unique characters is mind boggling. This isn't Smash 4, this is a small fan project being done by nonprofit volunteers as a hobby.

agreed, especially when you are using 8 downvotes and 12 upvotes (I know those arn`t the actual vote counts, I am just using them as a example) to 60,000 plus total players.