Ness should be banned

[da K.I.D.]

Im sitting here watching the stream for SiN (Smash in Nevada). and I hear about this 13 year old kid named FOW taking a game off of M2K.

Obviously I cant believe this and brush it off as blatent lies.

BUT

Then I see this boy named tyrant. on live stream. being said to be at least top 5 mks in the nation. possibly number 2 right behind M2K.

And I see this man named tyrant. LOSE.

To a 13 year old

Ness player.

named FOW.

and yet ness is still below lucas on the tier list?!?!?

I now pose this question to all you ness mainers.


W
T
F

ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR LIVES?!!?

GET FUTURE CAUSE IF YOU AINT FOW, YOU AINT LEGIT. STEP YO GAME UP YOU LOSER *****S

YOU NO LONGER HAVE ANY EXCUSES FOR LOSING. CUS IF A 13 YEAR OLD PLAYING NESS CAN BEAT TYRANT, ITS YOUR FAULT THAT YOUR CHARACTER SUCKS, BECAUSE THE CHARACTER IS OBVIOUSLY CAPABLE.

discuss

 

[Espy Rose]

Fow's ****ing legit.

his sister too.

Ness deserves this ****:

 

[aeghrur]

That's some serious steak.
Good **** FOW.
Good **** Nes and Nes boards.
Get ***** Tyrant.

 

[Emperor Time]

Makes me wanna pick up Ness again.

The commentary made the match so epic.

 

[Cacti]

Woah.

I have got to see this video...

Did this person just come out of nowhere?

 

[da K.I.D.]

Hes been pulling top 3 in sk92's vegas tourneys for months but this is his first time beating anybody worthwhile

 

[Uffe]

And you guys are suddenly realizing this? Where have you been?

 

[SuSa]

I'm going to go ahead and john right now for Tyrant.

A) Tyrant may not know the Ness matchup.
B) Sk92 does, if FOW goes to SK92's tournaments I'm sure they've had a few brawls and have seen eachother play.

Ness may be a good character.
Tyrant may just not know the matchup.
SK92 ***** him something awful if my information is correct.

So Ness may **** MK but gets demolished by Falco?

That's the second possibility.

 

[xxCANDYxx]

can we get a link to the livestream?

 

[Kinzer]

LOL Sonic boards trolling/invading another board.

I'm gone for a whole weekend and I miss so much.

Candy, if you want the link to the stream, check the last page of the Sonic tourney results thread, I have it somewhere in there. There probably won't be much though, this is the last day of SiN.

 

[Luur3]

I'm going to go ahead and john right now for Tyrant.

A) Tyrant may not know the Ness matchup.
B) Sk92 does, if FOW goes to SK92's tournaments I'm sure they've had a few brawls and have seen eachother play.

Ness may be a good character.
Tyrant may just not know the matchup.
SK92 ***** him something awful if my information is correct.

So Ness may **** MK but gets demolished by Falco?

That's the second possibility.

As epic as that Ness player was, I agree with this

Those matches came down to the bare wire. FOW only won the first round against Tyrant on a lucky spike. And it was stated over and over that Fow is really an Anti-MK person

 

[da K.I.D.]

I'm going to go ahead and john right now for Tyrant.

A) Tyrant may not know the Ness matchup.
B) Sk92 does, if FOW goes to SK92's tournaments I'm sure they've had a few brawls and have seen eachother play.

Ness may be a good character.
Tyrant may just not know the matchup.
SK92 ***** him something awful if my information is correct.

So Ness may **** MK but gets demolished by Falco?

That's the second possibility.

1. no juans.

2. he still took sk92 to 3rd game despite getting 3 stocked twice.

result?

ness is broken, get your garbage buns logic outta here

 

[MalcolmM]

The boy FOW turned his swag on like Soulja Boy

He hopped up out the screeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeen

Turned his swag onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

Did a lil bit of % and said whats up

Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Back Throooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooowwwwwwwwwwwww

 

[Brinzy]

Ness's match-up against MK is... relatively good, actually.

 

[Shaky]

GET FUTURE CAUSE IF YOU AINT FOW, YOU AINT LEGIT. STEP YO GAME UP YOU LOSER *****S

That comment might be offensive to Ness players who have placed consistently (in the US), such as Vicegrip, Smash64, and myself.

 

[xoxokev]

Ness's match-up against MK is... relatively good, actually.

...on stage

also did anyone record it?

 

[Uffe]

I'm going to go ahead and john right now for Tyrant.

A) Tyrant may not know the Ness matchup.
B) Sk92 does, if FOW goes to SK92's tournaments I'm sure they've had a few brawls and have seen eachother play.

Ness may be a good character.
Tyrant may just not know the matchup.
SK92 ***** him something awful if my information is correct.

So Ness may **** MK but gets demolished by Falco?

That's the second possibility.

Yeah, that must've been it. The fact is is that Ness is a low tier character and according to almost everybody, Ness' recovery is ****. Whether or not Tyrant didn't know the match up isn't a valid enough excuse. Meta Knight is quick, doesn't have any bad match ups and has a great recovery. Though you're johning for Tyrant, it's not good enough.

 

[Espy Rose]

Yeah, that must've been it. The fact is is that Ness is a low tier character and according to almost everybody, Ness' recovery is ****. Whether or not Tyrant didn't know the match up isn't a valid enough excuse. Meta Knight is quick, doesn't have any bad match ups and has a great recovery. Though you're johning for Tyrant, it's not good enough.

Get ***** SuSa.

He had no excuse for even letting Ness back on the level once he was out there.
Tyrant got his **** wrecked, enough said.

Since Sonic isn't a low tier anymore, does this make Tyrant the Inui of Ness?

I'm saying it here first, Ness counters Tyrant.

 

[DanGR]

can we get a link to the livestream?

^^^this please^^^

I saw Ally nearly take a match off M2K with Falcon over live stream. I think Reflex said he took a match off M2K with Lucas in a friendly as well. He's beaten in a friendly with PT too. He most likely just doesn't know the matchup. Same with Tyrant.

 

[nevershootme]

get the facts straight... Tyrant lost, FOW won the set. end of ****ing story, no matchup talk and all of that crap

edit:

"A) Tyrant may not know the Ness matchup."

-I say he didn't adapt fast enough.

 

[professor mgw]

Im not surprised ness is good.
OLIMAR OWNS NESS!

 

[ColinJF]

Ness is way too good... but like any character banning debate, we need to make sure we take ample time before banning a character. We're only just a year into Brawl. Maybe by this time next year though, we can talk seriously about banning Ness.

 

[Uffe]

Im not surprised ness is good.
OLIMAR OWNS NESS!

But isn't Olimar like mid or high tier? So that comes as to no surprise. Lol.

 

[da K.I.D.]

www.ustream.com/channel/smashking92

i think thats it

 

[SuSa]

Yeah, that must've been it. The fact is is that Ness is a low tier character and according to almost everybody, Ness' recovery is ****. Whether or not Tyrant didn't know the match up isn't a valid enough excuse. Meta Knight is quick, doesn't have any bad match ups and has a great recovery. Though you're johning for Tyrant, it's not good enough.

So the fact Tyrant didn't know the matchup and didn't gimp the Ness has nothing to do with... wait a second...when did I ever say Ness's recovery is ****?

Get ***** SuSa.

He had no excuse for even letting Ness back on the level once he was out there.
Tyrant got his **** wrecked, enough said.

Since Sonic isn't a low tier anymore, does this make Tyrant the Inui of Ness?

I'm saying it here first, Ness counters Tyrant.

Uhm.... I bolded the part that you are supporting me with. I hope you understood what I said? Because you are agreeing with me.

Get ***** both your logics.

 

[xDD-Master]

BAN NESS !

On Discussion: Falco CG owns Ness hardcore >_<

Ness seems to be good against MK if he can get around getting gimped

 

[Uffe]

So the fact Tyrant didn't know the matchup and didn't gimp the Ness has nothing to do with... wait a second...when did I ever say Ness's recovery is ****?

And you missed my point of how Ness is low tier and how Meta Knight is top tier with no bad match ups. Meta Knight mains can't john, sorry. You may not be one, but you're johning for one.

 

[:mad:]

This is pretty much amazing.

Not just the whole Tyrant losing to a Ness, but this thread. I'm ashamed for using Mario. And cheating on Ness like I did.

 

[swordsaint]

Ness is indeed good on Metaknight if the Ness player has learnt to get around the gimpage. I placed second in a tournament yesterday after going through to grand final through winners bracket using Metaknight, Falco and Snake. (lol tier *****)

Meteor who placed first came from losers bracket and beat me in two sets, though both 5 matches long. Almost every Ness vs Metaknight match he won. Ness has a lot of on stage options on Metaknight and a good Ness player CAN learn to not be gimped by mixing things ups a tad.

That being said, whenever I used SNAKE on his Ness I two stocked him but never used Snake on his counter pick due to a personal weakness and a bad match up on Olimar who he also uses.

Ness is good on Metaknight providing the Ness player is a MAINER, and is also skilled.

 

[SuSa]

And you missed my point of how Ness is low tier and how Meta Knight is top tier with no bad match ups. Meta Knight mains can't john, sorry. You may not be one, but you're johning for one.

Tiers != Matchups

Someone needs to learn what a tier list is.

Also no bad matchups != no even matchups.
A 55:45 is basically an even matchup. That means you can lose it 45% of the time. Which is almost half.

Also a matchup is assumed that both players are of equal skill and know the matchup. If Tyrant didn't know the Ness matchup, that would technically make your argument slightly invalid. If FOW continues to dominate Tyrant in later tournaments. I'll change my mind.

Be honest with yourself - not many Meta Knights (or players for that matter) have a lot of Ness experience. This is the beauty of lower tiers normally. They have a lot of top tier experience (Tell me, how many Top Tiers have you faced? Then if I asked how many Ness's that player has faced. You may be the only one.)

I can play someone, who just dominates my Snake because they have a lot of Snake experience. I go Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur to be more precise) and they don't know what the **** to do in the matchup and I end up dominating them.

 

[smash64]

That comment might be offensive to Ness players who have placed consistently (in the US), such as Vicegrip, Smash64, and myself.

its alright man i dont really care what ppl say when they are talking bad about us Ness players

 

[swordsaint]

Tiers != Matchups

Someone needs to learn what a tier list is.

Also no bad matchups != no even matchups.
A 55:45 is basically an even matchup. That means you can lose it 45% of the time. Which is almost half.

Also a matchup is assumed that both players are of equal skill and know the matchup. If Tyrant didn't know the Ness matchup, that would technically make your argument slightly invalid. If FOW continues to dominate Tyrant in later tournaments. I'll change my mind.

Be honest with yourself - not many Meta Knights (or players for that matter) have a lot of Ness experience. This is the beauty of lower tiers normally. They have a lot of top tier experience (Tell me, how many Top Tiers have you faced? Then if I asked how many Ness's that player has faced. You may be the only one.)

I can play someone, who just dominates my Snake because they have a lot of Snake experience. I go Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur to be more precise) and they don't know what the **** to do in the matchup and I end up dominating them.

THAT may be true for some players but truthfully I have some match up experience against ness using metaknight, because not everyone tier whores Ness is a bit more popular than you think though =P

however im not denying that while i have match up experience I know how to fight the match up, it's very possible

im just saying that any gimp attempt i made was stupid because the ness player knew how to keep me away from him as he recovered or used his pk thunder in weird angles

 

[Eagleye893]

As epic as that Ness player was, I agree with this

Those matches came down to the bare wire. FOW only won the first round against Tyrant on a lucky spike. And it was stated over and over that Fow is really an Anti-MK person

who isn't an anti-MK person when your character can easily beat them with skill? MK isn't really that great. people give MK too much glory for his quick, multi-hitting attacks, but he's fairly predictable, easily dodged and beaten out of most of his attacks by spacing properly (which ness players do easily with fair), killed quickly because he's a light character, and WAY TOO POPULAR OF A CHARACTER FROM THE TIER LIST!!

sadly i haven't seen this match, but i could have beaten a really good MK too if i didn't kill myself a million times.

EDIT:

BAN NESS !

On Discussion: Falco CG owns Ness hardcore >_<

Ness seems to be good against MK if he can get around getting gimped

WHY BAN NESS IF YOU CAN OWN HIM!!! that makes no sense to me... some characters can just destroy him, yet people think of banning him because of a couple of extremely skillful ness players?!?! Well, why doesn't everyone else get better with their character before saying "ban him!!" OR, why not ban MK, snake, D3, ICs, falco, .... the list goes on?!?! If someone is unable to beat a character, thats their fault; they either aren't skillful enough to beat that person or don't know the matchup, which they should. Thats like saying "ban Captain Falcon!! someone who plays him beat a MK, and that definitely doesn't go by the tier list!"

There are more people who are good at brawl than people give credit for. Instead of having a big list of great/acknowledgeable players in no particular order, we sometimes look for just "The Top ?" where "?" = a small amount, not greater than 25 or even 50. Good, yet newly discovered, players can emerge unexpectedly and not be given any credit for how good they are until this kind of event, where they beat one of the better players out there.

Sorry for the rant...

 

[SuSa]

THAT may be true for some players but truthfully I have some match up experience against ness using metaknight, because not everyone tier whores Ness is a bit more popular than you think though =P

however im not denying that while i have match up experience I know how to fight the match up, it's very possible

im just saying that any gimp attempt i made was stupid because the ness player knew how to keep me away from him as he recovered or used his pk thunder in weird angles

However I am willing to bet you have far less MK vs Ness experience then Ness vs MK.

Hell, my counter against NessFTW a long time ago was MK - I'm sure that happens to him a lot because he simply demolished my MK. I didn't know the matchup at all, and I thought it was going to be easy. "LOL I'll just gimp him" that is not the case.

1) If the Ness player knows how to keep you away, get around it. There are ways.
2) If you knew the matchup the angles wouldn't be weird. You would be accustomed to seeing them. He may mix it up to keep you from dair canceling his PKT, but none of the angles should seem 'weird'

Warios dominate my Snake because I don't know the matchup. I have some experience in it (thanks to going against Anti's Wario online, and a few other Wario's) but I feel far safer being Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur starter) against Wario. This is because as PT I feel I know the matchup to a greater degree - and most Wario's I face just don't know how to face PT.

In fact, most players I play don't know how to play against PT (except Squirtle... everyone knows how to play against that *******)

EDIT:

@ Eagleye
This is why MK is regularly placing well in tournaments. It's because hes overhyped. *rolls eyes*

 

[Uffe]

Tiers != Matchups

Someone needs to learn what a tier list is.

Also no bad matchups != no even matchups.
A 55:45 is basically an even matchup. That means you can lose it 45% of the time. Which is almost half.

Also a matchup is assumed that both players are of equal skill and know the matchup. If Tyrant didn't know the Ness matchup, that would technically make your argument slightly invalid. If FOW continues to dominate Tyrant in later tournaments. I'll change my mind.

Be honest with yourself - not many Meta Knights (or players for that matter) have a lot of Ness experience. This is the beauty of lower tiers normally. They have a lot of top tier experience (Tell me, how many Top Tiers have you faced? Then if I asked how many Ness's that player has faced. You may be the only one.)

I can play someone, who just dominates my Snake because they have a lot of Snake experience. I go Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur to be more precise) and they don't know what the **** to do in the matchup and I end up dominating them.

Apparently I don't know what a tier list is, so I couldn't tell you. Also, the match up with Ness vs MK is 60:40, not 55:45. Another thing is that Ness isn't rare. Maybe for FOW to get this far in a tournament with Ness only is a rare sight, but Ness is not a rare sight on a regular basis when it comes to playing Brawl. Maybe we should all ask Tyrant how often he comes against Ness.

 

[The Nameless Wanderer]

How to play against Squirtle, Get ***** or CP marth lollol.

Although, Ness beating Tyrant is surprising. He was mad after M2K camping at him as well as no MU experience.

 

[swordsaint]

Very possible that he had more match up experience. He himself says he knows the matchup due to tier whoring. And by weird i just meant....yeah i didn't expect this. I knew the match up a little, just enough to secure wins. gimping a good ness is just so much harder than you first think =/

and ness has some surprisingly priority on metaknight which limit him a limit- lolfair

 

[:mad:]

Ness didn't beat Tyrant, FOW did.

FOW counters Tyrant.

Simple as that.

 

[SuSa]

Apparently I don't know what a tier list is, so I couldn't tell you. Also, the match up with Ness vs MK is 60:40, not 55:45. Another thing is that Ness isn't rare. Maybe for FOW to get this far in a tournament with Ness only is a rare sight, but Ness is not a rare sight on a regular basis when it comes to playing Brawl. Maybe we should all ask Tyrant how often he comes against Ness.

Matchups are not set in stone while it may have been agreed as 60:40 (how long ago by the way?) that doesn't make it 60:40 forever. I was also using 55:45 as an example to state that while MK doesn't have any bad matchups, he does have even ones.

Also many low tiers have good matchups with top tiers. However they have some godawful matchups that just make them unviable.

 

[da K.I.D.]

Tiers != Matchups

Someone needs to learn what a tier list is.

Also no bad matchups != no even matchups.
A 55:45 is basically an even matchup. That means you can lose it 45% of the time. Which is almost half.

Also a matchup is assumed that both players are of equal skill and know the matchup. If Tyrant didn't know the Ness matchup, that would technically make your argument slightly invalid. If FOW continues to dominate Tyrant in later tournaments. I'll change my mind.

Be honest with yourself - not many Meta Knights (or players for that matter) have a lot of Ness experience. This is the beauty of lower tiers normally. They have a lot of top tier experience (Tell me, how many Top Tiers have you faced? Then if I asked how many Ness's that player has faced. You may be the only one.)

I can play someone, who just dominates my Snake because they have a lot of Snake experience. I go Pokemon Trainer (Ivysaur to be more precise) and they don't know what the **** to do in the matchup and I end up dominating them.

for those that cant read all of this, let me translate

johns john johnny john john john jiggity jiggity juan juan john john johnny juan SUPER JOHN BATJOHN WONDER WOJUAN

Jiggity juan juan john.

low tiers are low for a reason, they are bad, you dont need more than two stocks to figure out how to fight a ganon, ivysaur or a ness..

no johns GTFO of here, you scrub muffin. dont make excuses for bad people