Ness Question and Answer Thread, Ask Ness questions Here!

[Uffe]

I'm not sure if you're playing on or offline against the IC's. But if you're playing online, then doing what you're doing can be a little more difficult. The number one thing you want to do is separate both Popo and Nana. And the best way to do that is to nair them. The question is, do they block whenever you attempt that? Because if they do, then it's going to be kind of hard to successfully split them apart as they have the advantage by just shield grabbing. Of course this all sounds harder than it actually is.

If they're spacing with their Flurry (Down + B), you could try and get above them with nair or maybe space yourself and use PK Thunder. You may even be able to get an aerial PK Fire in there since when they attack, they'll be left open. PK Fire can be troublesome for these two, I believe. And it's because there are two of them who have to deal with it and both don't share the same damage. Keep in mind that these two don't exactly have the best grab game in this game, which is ironic. But once they do get you, then you're pretty much screwed.

Anyway, I think a little grounded PK Fire may also help if they're coming at you with their Flurry or trying to close in with their Ice Shots. Basically all you've really got to do is separate the two and you should be fine. When they're separated, things kind of get a little sloppy for them. If they're not coming at you with their Flurry, then they should be a little easier to deal with if you ask me.

 

[thesage]

It's not flurry it's blizzard. Jesus Christ.

 

[LaIotun]

How do I DI out of PK Fire?

 

[Neon Ness]

How do I DI out of PK Fire?

You don't.

You should just be able to tap up and away repeatedly on the control stick.

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Smash X and footstool Ness when he comes for the obvious grab.

 

[Eagleye893]

I use dair or fair really often from pkfire...

On the subject at hand, you can't di out of pkfire... Psshh
/sarcasm

you want to jump/fs out of it, but my luck would get me to lose my dj and be helpless. If you are ness, Di out with psi magnet and cancel it once you get to the ground with either a nair or spotdodge, depending on the opponents move.

 

[thesage]

You can di out of the initial hit of pk fire so the pillar doesn't even hit you and then punish Ness' endlag. Pk fire is terrible like that.

 

[Funen1]

If they're spacing with their Flurry (Down + B), you could try and get above them with nair or maybe space yourself and use PK Thunder. You may even be able to get an aerial PK Fire in there since when they attack, they'll be left open. PK Fire can be troublesome for these two, I believe. And it's because there are two of them who have to deal with it and both don't share the same damage. Keep in mind that these two don't exactly have the best grab game in this game, which is ironic. But once they do get you, then you're pretty much screwed.

Anyway, I think a little grounded PK Fire may also help if they're coming at you with their Flurry or trying to close in with their Ice Shots. Basically all you've really got to do is separate the two and you should be fine. When they're separated, things kind of get a little sloppy for them. If they're not coming at you with their Flurry, then they should be a little easier to deal with if you ask me.

Since the IC's projectiles are pretty good, arguably better than Ness', I'd say they don't really have to approach. Blizzard can just be absorbed, so you probably won't see it unless the player is sure you won't heal with it. Ice Blocks, however, can't be absorbed, come out much faster than PK Fire when desynched (so the ICs theoretically still have a bit of breathing room to move or shield it), and force anyone approaching into the air (though since Ness is already better in the air, that plan backfires on itself a bit). The ICs don't have good standing or dashing grab range, but their pivot grab is actually quite big and disjointed. Though I can't confirm it yet, they can probably pivot grab Ness out of some of his aerials (probably not F-air, though, as it has good enough range even when not retreating).

 

[Man of Popsicle]

Pk fire is terrible like that.

Everyone needs to read this.

 

[Boo-Boo]

how do i come back to the stage with out having to spot dogging into the ground i almost always get punished for spot dogging on to the stage when am coming down on to the stage want can i do to get my self back on to the stage with out getting punished i use ness.....by you own that already

 

[Shaky]

Sorry for double post.

 

[Shaky]

"Since the IC's projectiles are pretty good, arguably better than Ness'"

Nothing compares to PK Thunder.

 

[Uffe]

how do i come back to the stage with out having to spot dogging into the ground i almost always get punished for spot dogging on to the stage when am coming down on to the stage want can i do to get my self back on to the stage with out getting punished i use ness.....by you own that already

Do you save your second jumps? Assuming you're coming from above, this should be avoidable. If you're getting punished after spot dodging, then you need to mix it up a bit. Aerial PK Fire, fair or nair or if you have it, your second jump. When you're returning to the stage, you don't always need to land on it. You could go for the edge, too.

 

[Ref]

If you are high up Pk fire then dj if they are approaching and you can space it... If you hit dj D air... if miss air dodge then make it back.

To make it back without air dodging into the stage, fair or nair on landing.

Listen you do not need to dodge if your opponent isn't attacking. land then grab if you see them shielding. F air nair if you see them standing not going for you... If they are going for you attack or dodge.

Really though DJ air dodge is almost like DJ fair... unless they out range you it's not difference.

 

[Yink]

Like those two said, don't use PKT2 unless you really need it. Keeping your second jump is very important for recovering without getting punished. I see a lot of Ness mains try to PKT2 into someone on a stage. A simple shield > Grab will take care of Ness (unless their shield is weak or something).

Ref did a good job of explaining what to do to get back safely and effectively.

Now I want to ask a question though

Lets say you don't have a double jump and you have to use PKT2 to return. What if you're playing any character that can reflect you or suck up your PKT2. Any tips on how to get back besides hoping you're close enough to do a fair or nair then immediately using PKT2?

 

[Boo-Boo]

thank you UFFE and REF your comments helped alot now i have any other question i dont use ness's bat at all because it's to slow. i would like to be useing it but i cant seem to be useing it the right way how do you think i should use the bat or in want ways should i use it.....hopefully you can understand want i mean

 

[Man of Popsicle]

You can't spot dodge off the stage.
Do you mean airdodge?

And I hardly ever use the bat.
It kind of sucks.

 

[xoxokev]

use fsmash to punish a move with a lot of ending lag, for example, samus' grab, or a laggy landing, for example, if your opponent uses their up+b and lands on stage. (often times i see players that love to grab whenever their opponent uses a laggy move, when they should really use fsmash) or when your opponent has a very predictable recovery and you can easily hit them while they are trying to return to the stage, for example, donkey kong or ike. another more situational use of fsmash is to read your opponent and punish accordingly, for example, if you notice that your opponent usually roll dodges to towards you, you can just walk up to them, charge your fsmash in the opposite direction, and when they inevitably roll behind you, whack them with your bat.

also, don't forget ness' bat is a reflector...

@Yink: your best bet is probably to use pkt2 from above. try to aim for the ledge so that you can sweetspot it. if your opponent looks like he is going to edgehug (which is probably not very likely), then aim yourself onto the stage. if you must go onto the stage, make sure ness touches the ground. usually your opponent will just shield and punish with either a smash attack or a throw. DI up! this is important. this way you will have more space to maneuver and you will have your second jump back.

alternatively...
if you are already under the stage, and you know your opponent will try to absorb your pkt, just move away from the stage a little bit so it is harder for them to come out and get your thunder, then pkt2. hopefully, you will hit them with it and they will die. also, try to aim your pkt2 so that you land on stage instead of grabbing the ledge, that way in case they edge hog, you will be able to make it back safely

tl;dr - use fsmash when your opponent has some sort of ending/landing lag
- use pkt2 from above; if you are under the stage, aim for the stage not the ledge

 

[Uffe]

thank you UFFE and REF your comments helped alot now i have any other question i dont use ness's bat at all because it's to slow. i would like to be useing it but i cant seem to be useing it the right way how do you think i should use the bat or in want ways should i use it.....hopefully you can understand want i mean

Ness' f-smash comes out quicker than Kirby's forward B and Meta Knight's f-smash. Ness' f-smash should be the least of your concerns. But if you really want to use it, you're better off doing it out of a pivot or if your opponent somehow managed to get stuck in PKF, then go for it. If they get stuck in PKF, you could either attempt a grab or simply SH > dair. But to get back to using your f-smash, you can pivot that.

I've done this a few times myself to my opponents about six months ago when I was still able to play and still attempt to use it whenever possible. Just pivot > f-smash. In case you're wondering what a pivot is, it's when you do a short dash and quickly f-smash the opposite direction of where you were dashing. Just watch the Yoshi in this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6OJR_E00aI

You don't need to run to do one, though. But you can if you'd like. It'd probably trick your opponent. How you do it is your choice. For the most part you can just flick your analog and A button after a dash. The C-stick works, too.

In case you don't understand most of what was said:

Double jump = DJ
PK Thunder = PKT
PK Thunder 2 = PKT2 (Where you hit yourself with PKT)
PK Fire = PKF
PK Flash = PKFl
SH = short hop
F-smash = forward smash
Dair = down air

 

[Yink]

Long and helpful post from Xoxokev.

Thanks a lot this is more helpful. If I could hug you I would. I knew about going more low to the stage and trying to PKT2 back but not grab the edge, but sometimes they can just predict what you're going to do

I'll just work on this more, thank you very much!

 

[Ref]

Well if you know you can't make it back then you have a choice. Kill them/inflict damage trying to gimp me while i'm down here and if you are like at 70-90+ you can nair them away hopefully into a stage spike...

This becomes much more realistic on characters like G&W who hold down to down b = downward di.

There is no safe option when you have no dj and you must recover low against characters that can absorb or reflect pkt. This is one of Ness' fatal flaws.


Doing anything will cause a lost of stock if you opponent does everything right. Simply do what will put you at an advantage Next stock.

Remember some characters going for the grab the thunder gimp have a certain drop limit they can't go below and make it back. If you know this you can predict a dj and pkt2 right after they go back up or even more devastating to those down in stocks compared to you. F air their dj and retreat. Causing you to die but them too. If the character has a high drop limit do not try it.


There is NO SAFE option to avoiding a reflector/absorb gimp... Do what you can.

 

[Uffe]

Speaking of Mr. Game & Watch, how do I deal with him? I can't seem to beat him like I used to. :/

 

[Neon Ness]

Speaking of Mr. Game & Watch, how do I deal with him? I can't seem to beat him like I used to. :/

Secondary... shuts down Ness pretty badly.

Watch your opponent. There is no single answer to that question. :S You know everything that Ness can do, just react by using the tools that trump your opponent's moves.

Don't overdo the projectiles and realize that if you get offstage, there's a good chance you ain't gettin' back thanks to fair, up B, up air, and bucket. Heck, even neutral B can gimp if they're lucky.

 

[Uffe]

The only thing that I got gimped by was stupid Frigate Orpheon. I need more match up experience on this character. I never used to have much of a problem with him. I hate what six months of no Brawl can do.

 

[Boo-Boo]

thanks again uffe and thank you to xoxokev i will use want you people have told me but with that roll thing i just turn and use fsmash i play people that aren't stupid so they now that they should not roll at all but for sure thats a good idea i will use that against people that are stupid enough to roll like that and thank you uffe that is a bad A$$ idea and thanks for the link of how to do the pivot fsmash i plan to use that for sure thanks i oh you one i dont see how you can use it that much but i will try to use it any ways thanks again
i will ask any other question latter am sure you would like to answer it i think it works only if you dont miss up and time it right

 

[Boo-Boo]

thanks again uffe and thank you to xoxokev i will use want you people have told me but with that roll thing i just turn and use fsmash i play people that aren't stupid so they now that they should not roll at all but for sure thats a good idea i will use that against people that are stupid enough to roll like that and thank you uffe that is a bad A$$ idea and thanks for the link of how to do the pivot fsmash i plan to use that for sure thanks i oh you one i dont see how you can use it that much but i will try to use it any ways thanks again
i will ask any other question latter am sure you would like to answer it i think it works only if you dont miss up and time it right

 

[Uffe]

Pivot smashing could be used for just slight spacing. You can also pivot grab and pivot PK Fire. Pivoting PK Fire is a lot easier than the first two mentioned, though. But if you do it a lot, it gets predictable after awhile, so try and use it in different ways. If your opponent likes to roll, try to figure out which direction they like to roll.

If they roll left and then roll right, you can use your dair on them. My friends Snake likes to roll a lot out of dropping his grenades, so I tend to punish him with any aerial attack. And don't worry about owing me one. That's what this topic is here for. To help each other out. Feel free to ask whatever question and I'll, as well as everybody else here will try to answer in the best way possible.

 

[Boo-Boo]

thanks again uffe i will be sure to use them you most be a good player i would love to play you some time thats if you would like to......i have an other question is it passable to spike mk i have tryed to but i always seem to get hit by his up+b attack i end up going flying and fighting to get back up well he makes it up with eases a.k.a makes it up with out trying that hard want can i do to try to spike him or keep him off the stage when he he coming back to the stage

 

[Uffe]

It's possible to spike Meta Knight. His Shuttle Loop (Up B) comes out quicker than Ness' dair, though. However, both attacks I believe do trade hits when they make contact. So if you were to spike Meta Knight when he used his Shuttle Loop, you'd be hit upward and he'd go downward. It's not that easy to edge guard Meta Knight, though. His recovery is one of the best in the game, so it's kind of difficult.

If he's way out there away from the stage, you're better off using PK Thunder on him. If you haven't already, try and learn how to tail whip with Ness' PK Thunder. What that is is when you hit your opponent with the tail of PK Thunder and loop it around and hit them with the head of the PK Thunder. It's pretty useful. There are ways to keep him away from the stage for awhile, but nothing that won't allow him to come back.

 

[Yubi]

Ness' Dair is an excellent and resourceful move especially when you're extremely close to an opponent. Mots players tend to grab Ness whenever is possible. To avoid this, use a Short-hopped Dair. That way when your opponent tries to grab you, immediately jump with a Short-Hopped dair. Your opponent will receive damage while at the same time, dair's knockback sets your opponent ready to get combo'ed by and uair for example. Spam this as much as possible. It's really safe and has absolutely no lag after landing.

 

[Ref]

Smash DI up and in on the turtle it's massive success. YOU Have to smash di really fast and you'll be behind G&W smash Di away if he treats it ...

Just getting behind him is a good position. it also avoids the last hit.


Don't ever thing you are shut down there is always something to do... Including running away.

 

[Boo-Boo]

thank once again UFFE
DOES NESS HAVE ANY COMBOS
i have seen most of ness's combos vids but i have noticed that some of if not most of the combos they pull are not really a combo they could stop it but they were to stupid to do so............so does ness's have any real combos

 

[Yink]

thank once again UFFE
DOES NESS HAVE ANY COMBOS
i have seen most of ness's combos vids but i have noticed that some of if not most of the combos they pull are not really a combo they could stop it but they were to stupid to do so............so does ness's have any real combos

I'm not the master of combos but...if you config your controller to make the "R" button "Attack" you can do a bunch with the Double Aerial Shuffle. Like....

Nair > Fair > Grab Dthrow/whatever throw you want > Uair/PKT/etc

OR just general combos like...

PKF > PKF > Dthrow

Off the stage: PKF > Dair or PKF > PKT2

Fair > Fair > Nair

...I could keep listing but there's a bunch. This video that Uffe showed me is probably the most helpful though

THE VIDEO

 

[Uffe]

Here is a video with tons of combos that Ness can do. There are some that I can do that aren't in that video, though.

 

[Boo-Boo]

that was a really good video it was cool and how many of them were good players that you were able to get thoughts combos on your good but are they

 

[thesage]

Combos don't exist in brawl. Everything can be di'd out or airdodged.

 

[xoxokev]

which reminds me...

 

[Boo-Boo]

so they are just to stupid to get out of it

 

[Uffe]

so they are just to stupid to get out of it

I don't think so. People like to say there aren't combos in Brawl. For the most part it's probably true. But then when you have character like Mario, Luigi, Yoshi, Diddy Kong, just to name a few, it sure feels like they're comboing. It's just that there isn't enough hitstun in Brawl to actually string combos one after another all the time. Anyway, they can DI, but if you're coming at them, then where are they going to DI? An example could be Kirby's f-throw > uair > grab > repeat.

 

[thesage]

Compared to melee, brawl has the combos of like one character lol. The whole game devolves into such camping it's nealry unplayable for me... which is saying something since I really like camping in melee.