vesperview
Smash Hero
This is all so true!
-
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Ness is out: Come and help those in denial...
- Thread starter the grim lizard
- Start date
The Kirby Kong
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 350
"Up until now" only refers to whatever happened before a certain point, it does not necessarily mean the happening has stopped after that point.
That's a conclusion you can draw from it, but it's assumption at best. Not a fact.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Yo vesper check out the poem lol
vesperview
Smash Hero
I agree with it 100%, nice job!Yo vesper check out the poem lol
Ness is a "continuance" in the Smash series, up until a "certain point" (Brawl).
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Considering what you know about poetry and your comprehension skills, I conclude you either have a problem with English or lack of logic
Thanks
The Kirby Kong
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 350
Hehe, and now they're praising eachother for their work. This must be a troll goldmine.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Ok Mr. Supporter, why don't you give us reasons for Ness being in Brawl despite the statement "Up Until Now?"
The Kirby Kong
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 350
Yet you completely evade my point.
"My opinion is that you suck at this and this, so you must also be wrong about that"
How about you just look it up?
Either you're ignoring my last statement, or you didn't see it. I'd suggest looking at it.
DarkDeoxys26
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 102
Stop being a noob and telling us we are idiots. You are an idiot for breaking down and start throwing out insults because you can't go any further to prove us "wrong" in another way except for that sentence. We're not even able to be proven wrong, we believe he is going to get in and I have no ideo wtf you guys are trying to prove against us. I can call you an idiot and say you have a thick head and say you fail miserably, but if you don't think that's true, why should be think it is when YOU say it? And just because you hate DB's Ness fanboyism, it doesn't mean we all use the smilies, you're being stereotypical.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Like you people are to talk about evading points.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
And you have yet to post a good argument, wow I really evaded your point. I don't care about your opinion and maybe Sakurai didn't either considering Ness is out of the game.
The Kirby Kong
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 350
1. He's a veteran of both the previous games.
2. He's popular
That's reason enough.
Your request is as redundant as asking someone for a good reason to put Captain Falcon in Brawl. Or Yoshi and Jigglypuff for that matter... but most of all, the Ice Climbers.
None of them have a recent game, yet they're still gonna be in Brawl.
What's stopping Ness from doing the same?
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
1. Not all vets will be back, says so in a journal entry if I'm not mistaken
2. More than Claus?
3. Captain Falcon has an AT and I doubt he'll leave(he has no issues against him)
4. IC are retro characters and Sakurai likes them(and yeah retro characters probably won't have a recent game, it's common sense)
5. Yoshi is important to the Mario series and most of all the Yoshi series
6. Jigglypuff might not even be back, so where are you going with this?
lol. And Ness supporters are in denial?
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
I say that b/c there's no sign of Jigglypuff and not all vets will be back. Not to mention the requests for other Pokemon.
Mega-Ridley-Knight-Man
Smash Ace
Jump to conclusions? Sakurai pretty much concluded this for us.
"Because Ness does have a good chance ;D Narrow-minded is not believing in something, narrow-minded is jumping to conclusions. We DO NOT, DO NOT KNOW Ness is in SSBB, we believe and hope so. You guys say you DO KNOW, when it's not clearly proven, which I mean in exact words."
Of course we don't ****ing no. I am not saying we do, I am saying that based on all these facts and quotes that have been gathered from Sakurai, that he would more than likely replace Lucas.
"Let me teach you the difference between the words "similar" and "congruent" that my math teacher taught me :D Similar means they are "alike," they are in no way identical, they are just "alike." Congruent/Exactly the same as you described yourself. Now look at Sakurai's statement in the Lucas update, this is a THOROUGH statement.
But Lucas’s physical combat style is quite different. By which I mean, he does not have the same standard moves."
He is still a clone though, not even luigified.
"That was 6 years ago. Did yo uwant to buy the same shirt you did 6 years ago? No, thoughts and opinions change, and that means your so-called facts do too. Even if it was for the reason that Lucas's game wasn't out, he could still change his opinion. Now that SSBB has a smashing (lol *shot*) amount of characters, which I'm assuming since the game is not out (which also would be the only prove that could tell us Ness is out otherwise), he could give the happy inclusion of both characters. There are many possibilities, be we do not know."
So you bash us for not always using fact (Even though we do...) and yet you come up with this? Anyways the fact is that there may well be many characters, but it doesn't change the fact that at some point Sakurai wanted to replace Ness and that Ness would be a clone and that Sakurai doesn't want clones, and that Sakurai implied that Ness isn't in this game
"Good for you..."
Shut the **** up.
"Uh... Ok... Why don't you look the words "fact" and "opinion" up and actually realize that what you're saying is an opinion. And DB makes the best point, Mewtwo would own Pikachu in the Pokemon games, if they were the same level and they had their corresponding stats. In SSBM, Pikachu was a higher tier than Mewtwo, hmm... that's a change."
He said Lucas wasn't superior, we were not talking about in game fighting we were talking about the character and... I already explained that point.
"Ha ha ha *opinion opinion opinion and something else*"
Ha ha ha, nice to see your great debating skills!
"When they show a blatant response of flaming, like you just did, it's flaming."
I am stating the truth, weather that is offensive or not is not my fault.
":/, you fail at this."
You fail at life.
e.g. "The man" "The dog" those two quotes don't mean the same thing just because they got "The" in them. Seriously how old are you?
And lol at us only seeing things one way XD
2. Clones are not necessarily defined by their A moves but mainly by their B special moves, not to mention the fact that a few of Lucas's A moves are still similar.
3. He hasn't outright said it but he heavily implied it.
4. Lucas is superior as a character, you cannot say the Coco puffs monkey is a superior character than Macbeth can you? Seriously play the games Lucas is a superior character than Ness in every way, that isn't opinion thats a fact because Lucas as a character is much more developed and involved than Ness.
I am not flaming you because you believe he has a chance. But because you use stupid *** points to back up your views and also, you are ignorant and you are naive.
"Because Ness does have a good chance ;D Narrow-minded is not believing in something, narrow-minded is jumping to conclusions. We DO NOT, DO NOT KNOW Ness is in SSBB, we believe and hope so. You guys say you DO KNOW, when it's not clearly proven, which I mean in exact words."
Of course we don't ****ing no. I am not saying we do, I am saying that based on all these facts and quotes that have been gathered from Sakurai, that he would more than likely replace Lucas.
"Let me teach you the difference between the words "similar" and "congruent" that my math teacher taught me :D Similar means they are "alike," they are in no way identical, they are just "alike." Congruent/Exactly the same as you described yourself. Now look at Sakurai's statement in the Lucas update, this is a THOROUGH statement.
But Lucas’s physical combat style is quite different. By which I mean, he does not have the same standard moves."
He is still a clone though, not even luigified.
"That was 6 years ago. Did yo uwant to buy the same shirt you did 6 years ago? No, thoughts and opinions change, and that means your so-called facts do too. Even if it was for the reason that Lucas's game wasn't out, he could still change his opinion. Now that SSBB has a smashing (lol *shot*) amount of characters, which I'm assuming since the game is not out (which also would be the only prove that could tell us Ness is out otherwise), he could give the happy inclusion of both characters. There are many possibilities, be we do not know."
So you bash us for not always using fact (Even though we do...) and yet you come up with this? Anyways the fact is that there may well be many characters, but it doesn't change the fact that at some point Sakurai wanted to replace Ness and that Ness would be a clone and that Sakurai doesn't want clones, and that Sakurai implied that Ness isn't in this game
"Good for you..."
Shut the **** up.
"Uh... Ok... Why don't you look the words "fact" and "opinion" up and actually realize that what you're saying is an opinion. And DB makes the best point, Mewtwo would own Pikachu in the Pokemon games, if they were the same level and they had their corresponding stats. In SSBM, Pikachu was a higher tier than Mewtwo, hmm... that's a change."
He said Lucas wasn't superior, we were not talking about in game fighting we were talking about the character and... I already explained that point.
"Ha ha ha *opinion opinion opinion and something else*"
Ha ha ha, nice to see your great debating skills!
"When they show a blatant response of flaming, like you just did, it's flaming."
I am stating the truth, weather that is offensive or not is not my fault.
":/, you fail at this."
You fail at life.
1. Wow. Wow, words can mean different things based on the words around them, you do know that right?1- Thats just one way of looking at it, and obviously you can not see more than one way of looking at things.
2- Oh yes.. there A moves which make up more than 50% of a moveset is completely different but having similar specials (which work differently except for PK thunder) make them have the same complete moveset.. but with tweaks... lol, thats your opinion.
3- Yes Lucas is already in brawl... because Sakurai wanted him in... does this mean he replaces Ness? maybe.. we don't know.. Sakurai hasn't stated "This is lucas.. he is replacing Ness in brawl".
4- Playing the Mother series has no effect on who would be superior this is just your own biased opinion.. if we went by this logic Mewtwo would have been far "superior" to the rest of the pokemon..
Your right just because someone doesn't agree with what I think doesn't make them a flamer... but its when people insult, and criticize me or any Ness supporter just for supporting him, thats flaming.. and its quite evident in both Ness threads, you would have known that if you didn't jump to conclusions like the rest of the flamers.
Your calling me naive and ignorant because I believe he has a chance, hypocrite much?
for brawl!
e.g. "The man" "The dog" those two quotes don't mean the same thing just because they got "The" in them. Seriously how old are you?
And lol at us only seeing things one way XD
2. Clones are not necessarily defined by their A moves but mainly by their B special moves, not to mention the fact that a few of Lucas's A moves are still similar.
3. He hasn't outright said it but he heavily implied it.
4. Lucas is superior as a character, you cannot say the Coco puffs monkey is a superior character than Macbeth can you? Seriously play the games Lucas is a superior character than Ness in every way, that isn't opinion thats a fact because Lucas as a character is much more developed and involved than Ness.
I am not flaming you because you believe he has a chance. But because you use stupid *** points to back up your views and also, you are ignorant and you are naive.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Any character can be replaced, but Sakurai isn't going to do that with every character. Those 3 have no issues against their conclusion, unlike Ness. Nice logic. You, to me, is a cup of FAILURE
Mega-Ridley-Knight-Man
Smash Ace
I was going to flame the **** out of you. But Meta basically summed up what I was going to say anyway ; )
The Kirby Kong
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 350
"up until now" is apparently synonymous to "to date"
And the definition for that is the following ( coming from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/to date ) :
to date
adverb
prior to the present time; "no suspect has been found to date" [syn: up to now]
As you can see, it only refers to the time before a certain point. Whatever happens after that point is just assumption unless it's in the actual sentence.
And the definition for that is the following ( coming from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/to date ) :
to date
adverb
prior to the present time; "no suspect has been found to date" [syn: up to now]
As you can see, it only refers to the time before a certain point. Whatever happens after that point is just assumption unless it's in the actual sentence.
vesperview
Smash Hero
You're by far the most stupid person I've seen on these boards, all of your responses are "You're all idiots who don't know anything, STFU flamers" please, Ness is an irrelevant piece of crap, just like every single one of your posts, stop comparing him to Captain Falcon, Jigglypuff or Luigi, you ****ing fail.
AdmantNESS
Smash Ace
http://www.elook.org/dictionary/until-now.html
[adverb] used in negative statement to describe a situation that has existed up to this point or up to the present time; "So far he hasn't called"; "the sun isn't up yet"
Synonyms: so far, thus far, up to now, hitherto, heretofore, as yet, yet, til now
[adverb] used in negative statement to describe a situation that has existed up to this point or up to the present time; "So far he hasn't called"; "the sun isn't up yet"
Synonyms: so far, thus far, up to now, hitherto, heretofore, as yet, yet, til now
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Ness is gone.
The Kirby Kong
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 350
Jigglypuff only had a reason to be in the original Smash Bros because the character was popular and had a special role in the first instalment of the Pokemon television series.
With each new series, Jigglypuff gets pushed further to the background.
So saying Ness and Jigglypuff aren't in the same boat is just silly.
Jigglypuff has also been pushed back by newer pokemon, but that doesn't mean he won't appear in Brawl.
vesperview
Smash Hero
Oh but Jigglypuff hasn't been mentioned in any of the updates, while Ness has been thrown around a couple of times
[/sarcasm]DarkDeoxys26
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 102
Nice job proving you're flaming xD I'm not going to stfu since you won't when I tell YOU to :D I'm pretty sure you fail at life too
Wu Tang Gang
Smash Ace
Since you ignorants think Ness is in Brawl, try staying blind when I remind you all that Lucas was intended to replace Ness in Melee. The only reason he didn't was because M3 was delayed. Now it's out, and it seems that the truth avoided in Melee is going to drive Ness out of Brawl.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
We've pointed this out to them, but they use the argument "That was 6 years ago" blah blah blah. So what? Mother 3 was delayed 6 years ago, but it's not now.
DarkDeoxys26
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 102
Mother 3 is a huge accomplishment and pretty much a commitment to people. Taking a character out of a game is completely different, because it was just a thought that was not determined, and can always change with a snap of a finger.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
But this time it hasn't. Sakurai has put his replacement into action now, since there is no delay that could stop him otherwise.
Mega-Ridley-Knight-Man
Smash Ace
"MORE THAN LIKELY? Are you seriously saying he has a chance now? Please don't contradict yourself. You've said in posts before that he won't make it, not "might" not make it. You've now stated that there is a chance, and that chance is our hope for Ness."
1. That was a typo.
2. I never said that he wont make it in I said that it is more than likely that he wont make it in.
3. As I have said before, I don't bash your hope for Ness I bash the stupid *** reasons that you give, and the fact that you all say that he has a good chance.
"This has no explanation, no support, and no examples. He is not a clone if you know what that is. I never said he was Luigi-fied, yet he is. He has simlilar Special moves, yet he has all different standard moves. That is not a clone, it's time for you to understand that."
Look at Lucas's moves update. That is more than enough proof than you need.
"No, I don't bash you... But you said it yourself, you don't always have the right facts, yet you say we're idiots and should get our facts straight."
Yes you did... *opinion opinion opinion* etc...
"Look at the end of post."
Good for you...
"Ha ha ha, nice to prove you don't know what debating is. If you think that was debating, look at your earlier post."
He he he yhea right *sarcastic thumbs up*
"This proves you think opinions are facts, kay? It's obviously not a fact when you call someone ignorant and naive."
Even you cannot deny that DouchBlade is ignorant and naive... bloody hell, this is getting worse than "the_sandman" thread... O but you wouldn't know what that is would you.
"Doesn't need an explanation..."
Doesn't need an explanation...
1. That was a typo.
2. I never said that he wont make it in I said that it is more than likely that he wont make it in.
3. As I have said before, I don't bash your hope for Ness I bash the stupid *** reasons that you give, and the fact that you all say that he has a good chance.
"This has no explanation, no support, and no examples. He is not a clone if you know what that is. I never said he was Luigi-fied, yet he is. He has simlilar Special moves, yet he has all different standard moves. That is not a clone, it's time for you to understand that."
Look at Lucas's moves update. That is more than enough proof than you need.
"No, I don't bash you... But you said it yourself, you don't always have the right facts, yet you say we're idiots and should get our facts straight."
Yes you did... *opinion opinion opinion* etc...
"Look at the end of post."
Good for you...
"Ha ha ha, nice to prove you don't know what debating is. If you think that was debating, look at your earlier post."
He he he yhea right *sarcastic thumbs up*
"This proves you think opinions are facts, kay? It's obviously not a fact when you call someone ignorant and naive."
Even you cannot deny that DouchBlade is ignorant and naive... bloody hell, this is getting worse than "the_sandman" thread... O but you wouldn't know what that is would you.
"Doesn't need an explanation..."
Doesn't need an explanation...
vesperview
Smash Hero
This is coming from someone who has absolutely no knowledge of the Mother series, I still have no idea what you're doing here.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
That made me lol
What's with all the fuss? There is a new character who is almost a improved version of the previous character in all senses. I would understand this if Lucas were like Ike is to Marth, a totally different character gameplay wise. But it's the same. The same!
The Kirby Kong
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 7, 2002
- Messages
- 350
Let me state this once more:
"up until now" is apparently synonymous to "to date"
And the definition for that is the following ( coming from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/to date ) :
to date
adverb
prior to the present time; "no suspect has been found to date" [syn: up to now]
As you can see, it only refers to the time before a certain point. Whatever happens after that point is just assumption unless it's in the actual sentence.
And since this means the statement by Sakurai doesn't say anything about Ness' place in Brawl, there is no reason to believe he's removed.
The only real argument you guys got against Ness is "He would've been replaced 6 years ago". And I can't deny it's a good point.
But decisions change, people change... you gotta accept it. 6 years is a long time, and due to Melee's success, the fanbase for Ness has only grown. If Ness was to be removed, it had to be done in Melee... now it's a bit too late since people have grown attached to him.
I would be surprised if Sakurai overlooked this . But let's see Dec the 15th, or Jan the 24th shall we?
We can debate all we want, but I kinda doubt that anyone here would see the light and change opinion on the matter. So all we can do is flame really, and that's not really what I wanna spend my time on.
"up until now" is apparently synonymous to "to date"
And the definition for that is the following ( coming from http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/to date ) :
to date
adverb
prior to the present time; "no suspect has been found to date" [syn: up to now]
As you can see, it only refers to the time before a certain point. Whatever happens after that point is just assumption unless it's in the actual sentence.
And since this means the statement by Sakurai doesn't say anything about Ness' place in Brawl, there is no reason to believe he's removed.
The only real argument you guys got against Ness is "He would've been replaced 6 years ago". And I can't deny it's a good point.
But decisions change, people change... you gotta accept it. 6 years is a long time, and due to Melee's success, the fanbase for Ness has only grown. If Ness was to be removed, it had to be done in Melee... now it's a bit too late since people have grown attached to him.
I would be surprised if Sakurai overlooked this . But let's see Dec the 15th, or Jan the 24th shall we?
We can debate all we want, but I kinda doubt that anyone here would see the light and change opinion on the matter. So all we can do is flame really, and that's not really what I wanna spend my time on.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
Maybe you should go back and read some of our arguments, we have more than just the "Replacement" argument as well as counters to all the arguments the Ness "supporters" came up with.
DarkDeoxys26
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- May 5, 2006
- Messages
- 102
As we do to you MS... My goodness... it's just the thing that you think the counters from us are all wrong, therefore we "don't" have arguements. You keep saying we're wrong about this and that that it's starting to get annoying ;/
Mega-Ridley-Knight-Man
Smash Ace
Yhea that goes both ways.