Ness is out: Come and help those in denial...

[DarkDeoxys26]

Seriously, if you don't want to hear our statements/voices anymore, feel free to leave. And DB is right, you think too much of yourself saying that you always counter all of our points, but you don't. I'm pretty sure what DB posted about you is a FACT since you seem to know what FACTS are.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Geez. I log on to see I've missed some "post of logic" which only include things I've seen mentioned by others in bits.

 

[Wu Tang Gang]

And his "stupidity" seems to come from the fact that he is hoping for Ness's inclusion in Brawl, so essentially, yes, people ARE bashing him for hoping for Ness's inclusion.

Not at all. This guy's a reincarnation of the sandman.

Also, all he does is drown his posts with smiley faces and Ness sprites. Not to mention, he said Lucas didn't replace Ness. He thinks Ness has a chance, which is pretty dumb. Sakurai spoon-fed the fact that Lucas replaced Ness in Brawl, and he's still in denial. If he hoped that Ness was in Brawl(but acknowledged he's out), then I wouldn't do anything.

 

[Hippochinfat]

liek dud iz sum dum wite guy hoo tranlate teh updaytes and u c he got teh trnlation rong.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Not at all. This guy's a reincarnation of the sandman.

Also, all he does is drown his posts with smiley faces and Ness sprites. Not to mention, he said Lucas didn't replace Ness. He thinks Ness has a chance, which is pretty dumb. Sakurai spoon-fed the fact that Lucas replaced Ness in Brawl, and he's still in denial. If he hoped that Ness was in Brawl(but acknowledged he's out), then I wouldn't do anything.

I wouldn't say thinking Ness has a chance is dumb, he could very well be a sticker or AT. I would say though, that if you practically flood your post with this--> and then it's annoying and shows nothing but stupidity.

liek dud iz sum dum wite guy hoo tranlate teh updaytes and u c he got teh trnlation rong.

I need a translator for this post.

 

[Flaming_Wuzzle]

Sometimes I wonder if anyone's asked Nate what he meant by 'up until now'...

Seriously, all everyone's done is assume his intent, and it would be really nice to know what it was. And don't say 'HE MEANT NESS IS OUT, SCRUB, DEAL WITH IT', because you don't know that, no one here is psychic. Until there's actual proof he actually meant to say Ness isn't in Brawl, and by 'proof' I mean asking him instead of trying to infer from context, then I'm not going to think that particular piece of information confirms or disconfirms anything.

Either way, bring on the 15th, this debate might actually end once and for all.

 

[DarkDeoxys26]

No, this is not a debate anymore, just a childish flame game. Now we are dumb, in denial, and should stfu.

 

[Collective of Bears]

I'm done with this thread. I don't want to get stuck in a flame war about a character I don't care about. I leave with this last statement: Ness is out, Lucas is in. Don't like it, complain to Sakurai, not me.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Sometimes I wonder if anyone's asked Nate what he meant by 'up until now'...

Seriously, all everyone's done is assume his intent, and it would be really nice to know what it was. And don't say 'HE MEANT NESS IS OUT, SCRUB, DEAL WITH IT', because you don't know that, no one here is psychic. Until there's actual proof he actually meant to say Ness isn't in Brawl, and by 'proof' I mean asking him instead of trying to infer from context, then I'm not going to think that particular piece of information confirms or disconfirms anything.

Either way, bring on the 15th, this debate might actually end once and for all.

Who's Nate and if he's not Sakurai, not interested. Sakurai isn't going to directly deconfirm things from Brawl, just like that. They will be subtle or in little msgs.

No, this is not a debate anymore, just a childish flame game. Now we are dumb, in denial, and should stfu.

I never said any of this, but when you post stuff like DB all the time, people will call you dumb, in denial, and tell you to STFU. Know why? B/c all he's doing is posting smileys and the same "Ness for Brawl" thing. If there's an argument and he has nothing to think of, he'll post this and even if he does have an argument he still posts it.

 

[AdmantNESS]

Nate Bihldorf is the guy who translates all the updates for America.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Oh Ok, but still. How is Nate supposed to know, when it was Sakurai who made the update?

 

[Cless]

Nate is the translator for the English version of the dojo.

edit: ****, beaten to it.

 

[DeuceBlade]

Saying Ness is out is jumping to conclusions, no where does it give an absolute that Ness is out, people are just easily persuaded into thinking the first thing that comes to mind.. "Oh it says up until now.. I will not even attempt to think of this in any other way cause the first thing that comes to mind is hes out, now lemmi go to the Ness support thread and do exactly the opposite of what the thread says"

If you don't support Ness, then go to another thread where your opinion (not facts) can be used better.

for brawl!

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Saying Ness is out is jumping to conclusions, no where does it give an absolute that Ness is out, people are just easily persuaded into thinking the first thing that comes to mind.. "Oh it says up until now.. I will not even attempt to think of this in any other way cause the first thing that comes to mind is hes out, now lemmi go to the Ness support thread and do exactly the opposite of what the thread says"

If you don't support Ness, then go to another thread where your opinion (not facts) can be used better.

for brawl!

As I said before, he posted something then the little smiley slogan. I can post in this thread if I want to and our facts that you seem to disregard were used the best here against your lack of logic and arguments. And don't bring up that "opinion-fact" BS. I know what I said.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Folks, the fact is that there is a major discrepancy between the US and Japanese update. This is why I am loath to trust translations for specific wordings in general, but really we don't know if Nate jumped the gun or it's just wrong, but we do know that the Japanese version is directly from the horse's mouth, it's the only version we can completely trust.


Bottom line: Translations suck, Ness isn't deconfirmed.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Folks, the fact is that there is a major discrepancy between the US and Japanese update. This is why I am loath to trust translations for specific wordings in general, but really we don't know if Nate jumped the gun or it's just wrong, but we do know that the Japanese version is directly from the horse's mouth, it's the only version we can completely trust.


Bottom line: Translations suck, Ness isn't deconfirmed.

Except... SamuraiPanda retranslated the Japanese... The English is 100% correct. >_>

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Folks, the fact is that there is a major discrepancy between the US and Japanese update. This is why I am loath to trust translations for specific wordings in general, but really we don't know if Nate jumped the gun or it's just wrong, but we do know that the Japanese version is directly from the horse's mouth, it's the only version we can completely trust.


Bottom line: Translations suck, Ness isn't deconfirmed.

English isn't the only language in which it said "Up Until Now" for it was pretty much the same thing for all the other languages too.

 

[DarkDeoxys26]

Who's Nate and if he's not Sakurai, not interested. Sakurai isn't going to directly deconfirm things from Brawl, just like that. They will be subtle or in little msgs.

I never said any of this, but when you post stuff like DB all the time, people will call you dumb, in denial, and tell you to STFU. Know why? B/c all he's doing is posting smileys and the same "Ness for Brawl" thing. If there's an argument and he has nothing to think of, he'll post this and even if he does have an argument he still posts it.

I already told you, that is not that depth of his posts. You guys just don't like him for you own stupid reasons. You guys see it everywhere in his posts and just clump that together so you can insult him when you guys have nothing else to say. When he says something now, you just mock him with little smiley faces and sprites because you can only get as low as that. And I don't speak for everyone, I don't think you directly insult us, but some do. By the way, since you've noticed the obvious that he posts it in EVERY post, you can tell it's just some sig thing he uses for this thread, not ANY part of his actual post, which you ignore. When you come up with those "great" comebacks/counters, I doubt DB just posts Ness for Brawl. At least recently he doesn't. IMO, he's doing just fine with the counters.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

I already told you, that is not that depth of his posts. You guys just don't like him for you own stupid reasons. You guys see it everywhere in his posts and just clump that together so you can insult him when you guys have nothing else to say. When he says something now, you just mock him with little smiley faces and sprites because you can only get as low as that. And I don't speak for everyone, I don't think you directly insult us, but some do. By the way, since you've noticed the obvious that he posts it in EVERY post, you can tell it's just some sig thing he uses for this thread, not ANY part of his actual post, which you ignore. When you come up with those "great" comebacks/counters, I doubt DB just posts Ness for Brawl. At least recently he doesn't. IMO, he's doing just fine with the counters.

You guys must be someone us that doesn't include me. I don't like DB b/c of his posts and how it's a practical annoyance. I know it's not a sig b/c a line divides the sig from his original post. If it is a sig, then he just put it there. I don't mock him when he counters, but counter back, you are confusing me with others. You say you doubt he posts "Ness for Brawl" when we do post our arguments, but FACT is he does. It may not be all the time, but he does, especially when has nothing else to say or use to recounter the argument.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Except... SamuraiPanda retranslated the Japanese... The English is 100% correct. >_>

Except my Japanese professor made a special note of how it's not, and I'm sorry but I trust her a great deal more then mr. SamuraiPanda.


Not directly, mind you, she just pointed out that the best translation of the phrase was "until now", but it wasn't equivalent to the imperfect tense (in other words, doesn't have "it's over" inherent within it, it's just a statement of what has been occurring without commenting on whether it will continue).

For reference, yes she is a native speaker, and has a linguistics PhD.



Again, it's the best translation, but that doesn't mean that the "deconfirmation" was a linguistic issue.

English isn't the only language in which it said "Up Until Now" for it was pretty much the same thing for all the other languages too.

Which doesn't change the fact that there is a discrepancy between the English and Japanese. It just means there's a discrepancy between other language's translations and the Japanese, and the Japanese site is the official version (directly from the horse's mouth).

Though depending on the language it may or may not make sense since Japanese is radically different from most European languages.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Except my Japanese professor made a special note of how it's not, and I'm sorry but I trust her a great deal more then mr. SamuraiPanda.


Not directly, mind you, she just pointed out that the best translation of the phrase was "until now", but it wasn't equivalent to the imperfect tense (in other words, doesn't have "it's over" inherent within it, it's just a statement of what has been occurring without commenting on whether it will continue).

For reference, yes she is a native speaker, and has a linguistics PhD.



Again, it's the best translation, but that doesn't mean that the "deconfirmation" was a linguistic issue.

The statement still doesn't really work for Ness's inclusion even if it doesn't deconfirm him. So it really doesn't matter

 

[AsbestosBlatant]

Boy, it sure is gonna suck with three tap A button combos and the handicap mode that were only in the game up until now.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Boy, it sure is gonna suck with three tap A button combos and the handicap mode that were only in the game up until now.

Really will huh?

 

[AsbestosBlatant]

Notice how they're still in the game, yet had the holy grail of Ness disbelievers in both of their respective updates, in statements that did not allude to a revamping.

 

[adumbrodeus]

The statement still doesn't really work for Ness's inclusion even if it doesn't deconfirm him. So it really doesn't matter

LOL!

23% chance vs. 0% chance, which is infinitely greater then the other?

The 23% chance obviously, any non-zero chance is in fact infinitely greater then the 0% which is a deconfirmation. Granted, I don't know what his real chances are, beyond him not being deconfirmed, but that's not the point. The point is he is not deconfirmed, which was what you were arguing. What this means for his overall chances once it's established they are non-zero is a debate for another thread since it's totally irrelevant to the current thread.




Either way, the Japanese statement is essentially neutral, it doesn't suggest he will be in, it doesn't suggest he won't, it just references that he existed.



However, if you meant them, the English version's implications are a rather complex and annoying to predict, though I invite anyone to try.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Notice how they're still in the game, yet had the holy grail of Ness disbelievers in both of their respective updates, in statements that did not allude to a revamping.

Notice how Handicap is different and how both 3 hit combos and Handicap has nothing against their inclusion. Get the picture?

LOL!

23% chance vs. 0% chance, which is infinitely greater then the other?

The 23% chance obviously, any non-zero chance is in fact infinitely greater then the 0% which is a deconfirmation. Granted, I don't know what his real chances are, beyond him not being deconfirmed, but that's not the point. The point is he is not deconfirmed, which was what you were arguing. What this means for his overall chances once it's established they are non-zero is a debate for another thread since it's totally irrelevant to the current thread.




Either way, the Japanese statement is essentially neutral, it doesn't suggest he will be in, it doesn't suggest he won't, it just references that he existed.



However, if you meant them, the English version's implications are a rather complex and annoying to predict, though I invite anyone to try.

Dude, we all know or atleast I know Ness has a chance: a low one. We are arguing that he is out, not really deconfirmed by one update. And please don't say they are the same thing, b/c they aren't.

 

[DynamiteSpoony]

Folks, the fact is that there is a major discrepancy between the US and Japanese update. This is why I am loath to trust translations for specific wordings in general, but really we don't know if Nate jumped the gun or it's just wrong, but we do know that the Japanese version is directly from the horse's mouth, it's the only version we can completely trust.


Bottom line: Translations suck, Ness isn't deconfirmed.

If it were a mistake in translation, it would have been fixed by now.

The biggest clincher that Lucas is replacing Ness is that Lucas pretty much stole his entire possible B-moveset. Anyone who's EVER played Mother 2/Earthbound knows that Ness is not an offensive PSI user. The only PSI attacks that he has to himself AND aren't in Lucas's moveset are Flash and Rockin, and Rockin is pure FS material, not to mention IDENTICAL to Mother 3's PK LOVE, which means if Claus makes it (which is actually pretty likely), Ness is even more screwed than he is now.

I'm betting that Lucas and Claus will be Mother's PCs, Kumatora (And maybe Duster) will be ATs, Pokey will be an SE boss, and Ness will be AT'd or a regular trophy.

I admit, I was sad about Ness until I played Mother 3. I never thought I'd say this, but Mother 3 >>> Earthbound.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

If it were a mistake in translation, it would have been fixed by now.

The biggest clincher that Lucas is replacing Ness is that Lucas pretty much stole his entire possible B-moveset. Anyone who's EVER played Mother 2/Earthbound knows that Ness is not an offensive PSI user. The only PSI attacks that he has to himself AND aren't in Lucas's moveset are Flash and Rockin, and Rockin is pure FS material, not to mention IDENTICAL to Mother 3's PK LOVE, which means if Claus makes it (which is actually pretty likely), Ness is even more screwed than he is now.

I'm betting that Lucas and Claus will be Mother's PCs, Kumatora (And maybe Duster) will be ATs, Pokey will be an SE boss, and Ness will be AT'd or a regular trophy.

I admit, I was sad about Ness until I played Mother 3. I never thought I'd say this, but Mother 3 >>> Earthbound.

I'd expect Sakurai to put Claus in, considering he got the same number of request as Lucas did on the poll. Mother 3 is now taking the precedence it was supposed to take in Melee.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Dude, we all know or atleast I know Ness has a chance: a low one. We are arguing that he is out, not really deconfirmed by one update. And please don't say they are the same thing, b/c they aren't.

They have been used interchangeably for the most part...

That and the initial post attempts to establish Ness as being deconfirmed (read it, it attempts to make that point rather strongly) which means that this thread veered ever so slightly off topic.

But whatever.

If it were a mistake in translation, it would have been fixed by now.

The biggest clincher that Lucas is replacing Ness is that Lucas pretty much stole his entire possible B-moveset. Anyone who's EVER played Mother 2/Earthbound knows that Ness is not an offensive PSI user. The only PSI attacks that he has to himself AND aren't in Lucas's moveset are Flash and Rockin, and Rockin is pure FS material, not to mention IDENTICAL to Mother 3's PK LOVE, which means if Claus makes it (which is actually pretty likely), Ness is even more screwed than he is now.

I'm betting that Lucas and Claus will be Mother's PCs, Kumatora (And maybe Duster) will be ATs, Pokey will be an SE boss, and Ness will be AT'd or a regular trophy.

I admit, I was sad about Ness until I played Mother 3. I never thought I'd say this, but Mother 3 >>> Earthbound.

I addressed this already, it's still the best translation, but it has substantiative differences from the Japanese version. Best translation =/= a perfect translation.

 

[AsbestosBlatant]

Ugh, Meta_Sonic, please learn what reading comprehension means.

First of all, I never said in a non-sarcastic way that Handicaps or three hit combos were out of the game at all. In fact, quite the opposite. You confirming that, if anything, only strengthens my argument. While we're on the issue of the elusive "Up until now" phrase that everybody seems to pack in their lunch boxes, let me quote, DIRECTLY QUOTE, then analyze and explain, the statements with "Up until now" or "Until now" in them:

Jul. 09 Mon. 2007
"Up until now, standard combos, or button-press combos, were done primarily by tapping the attack button repeatedly."

What this says is that so far in every Smash Brothers game, there have been three hit combos. Notice that it does not allude at all to them being occluded, or changed, in any way. It's nothing but a chronological reference. Moving on.

Nov. 14 Wed. 2007
"So until now, I’ve always made sure to include handicaps in each game in the series."

Again, not alluding at all to their change, whatsoever, and is only stating that every previous Smash Brothers game has had handicaps. In this sentence it's easy to see how somebody might assume it means that Handicaps are gone, but reading so much as the update title obviously debunks any moronic cries of "Until now" meaning "not in the game". Lastly, the one that everybody seems to be so obsessed with:

Nov. 08 Thu. 2007
"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now, and Lucas is very similar. "
Wow, that's such a major deconfirmation. It's astounding even! No, not really. It's only saying that Lucas is very similar, and that Ness has been in both of the games in the past.

The point I'm making is that the "Up until now" nonsense is all bunk, base, and pointless. It gives absolutely no solid or even flimsy evidence towards him not being in the game.

Furthermore, onto the moveset, I have only one word, and one that you hear repeatedly with good reason: Luigi.

Now, while I'm at it, Sakurai saying he wanted to replace Ness in Melee. He didn't, that should really be all that needs to be said. Yet knowing this community, it isn't. You see, he used the word "Originally," which by definition cites a past notion, a notion that isn't there. If he had said something like "I still wish I could have replaced Ness," that argument would have some credibility, but it doesn't.

So there.

 

[DynamiteSpoony]

I'd expect Sakurai to put Claus in, considering he got the same number of request as Lucas did on the poll. Mother 3 is now taking the precedence it was supposed to take in Melee.

Yes, and we need a playable Mother villain, and really, Claus is the only option. Unless you actually WANT Giegue/Giygas as playable (Yes, I know there's a Giegue support stamp in my sig. I just want him in the game SOMEWHERE, perhaps an AT or something)

And then there's, you know...

Spoiler

The fact that Lucas and Claus are twins and it would make for some fantastic SE scenes....>_>

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Ugh, Meta_Sonic, please learn what reading comprehension means.

First of all, I never said in a non-sarcastic way that Handicaps or three hit combos were out of the game at all. In fact, quite the opposite. You confirming that, if anything, only strengthens my argument. While we're on the issue of the elusive "Up until now" phrase that everybody seems to pack in their lunch boxes, let me quote, DIRECTLY QUOTE, then analyze and explain, the statements with "Up until now" or "Until now" in them:

Jul. 09 Mon. 2007
"Up until now, standard combos, or button-press combos, were done primarily by tapping the attack button repeatedly."

What this says is that so far in every Smash Brothers game, there have been three hit combos. Notice that it does not allude at all to them being occluded, or changed, in any way. It's nothing but a chronological reference. Moving on.

Nov. 14 Wed. 2007
"So until now, I’ve always made sure to include handicaps in each game in the series."

Again, not alluding at all to their change, whatsoever, and is only stating that every previous Smash Brothers game has had handicaps. In this sentence it's easy to see how somebody might assume it means that Handicaps are gone, but reading so much as the update title obviously debunks any moronic cries of "Until now" meaning "not in the game". Lastly, the one that everybody seems to be so obsessed with:

Nov. 08 Thu. 2007
"There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now, and Lucas is very similar. "
Wow, that's such a major deconfirmation. It's astounding even! No, not really. It's only saying that Lucas is very similar, and that Ness has been in both of the games in the past.

The point I'm making is that the "Up until now" nonsense is all bunk, base, and pointless. It gives absolutely no solid or even flimsy evidence towards him not being in the game.

Furthermore, onto the moveset, I have only one word, and one that you hear repeatedly with good reason: Luigi.

Now, while I'm at it, Sakurai saying he wanted to replace Ness in Melee. He didn't, that should really be all that needs to be said. Yet knowing this community, it isn't. You see, he used the word "Originally," which by definition cites a past notion, a notion that isn't there. If he had said something like "I still wish I could have replaced Ness," that argument would have some credibility, but it doesn't.

So there.

HAHAHAHA! No! I'm not strengthening your argument. 3 hit combos and handicap have nothing against their inclusion as I said before, but you seemed to disregard it. Luigi is not a good comparison! Not only is there no sign of him, but there's no telling if he'll have the same moves whatsoever. "Up Until Now" still does not work FOR his inclusion regardless of whether it deconfirms him or not. Of course "originally" he wanted to, but couldn't b/c of a delay? Helloooooo? He couldn't b/c of the Mother 3 delay so he had no other Mother rep but Ness. That's already been covered. Since there is no Mother 3 delay now, NOTHING is stopping him from replacing Ness now. Notice how after he said up until now on the handicap and 3 hit update that he clarified then and there that they'd stay. Did he do the same with Ness, by saying something like "But Ness will be back" or something similar? NO! He didn't. So there my ***. Try again

 

[AsbestosBlatant]

No, he didn't say any of that, so quit grasping at straws, and yes you are by further saying that handicaps and A combos are in the game, by showing that they don't do anything to deconfirm anything.

Furthermore, I never said that the "up until now" quotes confirmed him, only that they did not do a thing to occlude Ness.

What's more, Sakurai so much as mentioning Ness does more to confirm him than not outright admitting it. Did he allude to any other characters ever being confirmed? No. When Metaknight was revealed he didn't go and say "Oh and Dedede will be giving Kirby trouble too" or anything like that, why would he for Ness?

Another question to ask yourself, has he mentioned anything so far that was in Melee that is not in Brawl? No, no he has not. I'm going to be overjoyed when he's confirmed and people like you are eating your words.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

No, he didn't say any of that, so quit grasping at straws, and yes you are by further saying that handicaps and A combos are in the game, by showing that they don't do anything to deconfirm anything.

Furthermore, I never said that the "up until now" quotes confirmed him, only that they did not do a thing to occlude Ness.

What's more, Sakurai so much as mentioning Ness does more to confirm him than not outright admitting it. Did he allude to any other characters ever being confirmed? No. When Metaknight was revealed he didn't go and say "Oh and Dedede will be giving Kirby trouble too" or anything like that, why would he for Ness?

Another question to ask yourself, has he mentioned anything so far that was in Melee that is not in Brawl? No, no he has not. I'm going to be overjoyed when he's confirmed and people like you are eating your words.

I never said the statement completely deconfirmed anything. Learn to read. You are still disregarding the same statement I put in every post or maybe you have nothing to say about it. They have nothing against their inclusion, Ness does. It doesn't really does more to confirm him at all. Was Metaknight a replacement for someone no, so why would D.D.D be mentioned. MK and DDD having nothing in common really but being from the same series. Ness on the other hand not only similar in appearance but movewise as well. Sakurai hasn't mentioned things in updates that was in Melee and not in Brawl, but there are things that aren't in Brawl that was in Melee. Read the E 4 All reviews and comments please. Brawl=/=Melee

 

[AsbestosBlatant]

Again, you missed my point. Ness has just as little denouncing his inclusion as those other things, which is WHY I drew the parallel in the first place, I addressed that in my first wall o' text where I quoted the site. Your reasoning, and the reasoning behind the entire anti-Ness argument is base and completely meaningless. All you're doing is speculating and grasping at any sliver of a shred of evidence that "deconfirms" Ness and clinging to it like a life preserver. You're proving post by post that you have the mental malleability and comprehension of a wall of fish.

Let me say it again: The "up until now" statement did not disprove Ness any more than it disproved handicaps or A button combos. The comment made back on the MELEE site is irrelevant, because as you have just ended your post with, Brawl=/=Melee. The moveset argument is meaningless, as Ness could easily be redesigned or just left the same and STILL be more different than Mario and Luigi, considering we don't even know how Lucas moves yet in terms of speed compared to Ness.

 

[Meta_Sonic64]

Again, you missed my point. Ness has just as little denouncing his inclusion as those other things, which is WHY I drew the parallel in the first place, I addressed that in my first wall o' text where I quoted the site. Your reasoning, and the reasoning behind the entire anti-Ness argument is base and completely meaningless. All you're doing is speculating and grasping at any sliver of a shred of evidence that "deconfirms" Ness and clinging to it like a life preserver. You're proving post by post that you have the mental malleability and comprehension of a wall of fish.

Let me say it again: The "up until now" statement did not disprove Ness any more than it disproved handicaps or A button combos. The comment made back on the MELEE site is irrelevant, because as you have just ended your post with, Brawl=/=Melee. The moveset argument is meaningless, as Ness could easily be redesigned or just left the same and STILL be more different than Mario and Luigi, considering we don't even know how Lucas moves yet in terms of speed compared to Ness.

I'm missing points, Ness has as little denouncing his inclussion. No. He has much more denouncing it than Handicap and 3 hit combos together. 3-hit combos and Handicap have been changed in ways of control and etc, so as you said about having no change at all, wrong. I'll say it again, nothing is going against their inclusion(what is Sakurai going to do? Replace them with ?-hit combos and a mode similar to handicapped, but a different name?), unlike Ness. My reasoning isn't as meaningless as yours. You only bringing things that other users used as arguments back up(they were all countered by not only me, but other users). What should speed have to matter? It's practically still the same same move. I know you support Ness, but he just won't be a PC and soon you'll have to except it and if I'm wrong, then oh well. Not like I'll commit suicide b/c one character got in despite my opinion. I'll just beat the crap out of him, like I do with the ICs. Logging, cya.

 

[AsbestosBlatant]

You're amazing, you stunning example of a talking cod-piece, you. By describing exactly what you've been doing for the past however many posts and rebutting with no other evidence than "no u" and "you said this so i'll say it too and try to sound witty! >:|", you have completely discredited me and anybody who shares my opinion, kudos.

As far as speed is concerned, I meant movement speed. Notice how Marth and Roy are different in terms of attack delay and attack speed, speed doesn't make those characters different to play at all now, does it? Why, Roy must be top tier with that kind of logic! If you honestly still think that anything presented has any shred of de-confirming power to it, by all means keep that ideal, because it's obviously not going to change no matter how much reasoning meets your fad opinion.

 

[DeuceBlade]

You're amazing, you stunning example of a talking cod-piece, you. By describing exactly what you've been doing for the past however many posts and rebutting with no other evidence than "no u" and "you said this so i'll say it too and try to sound witty! >:|", you have completely discredited me and anybody who shares my opinion, kudos.

As far as speed is concerned, I meant movement speed. Notice how Marth and Roy are different in terms of attack delay and attack speed, speed doesn't make those characters different to play at all now, does it? Why, Roy must be top tier with that kind of logic! If you honestly still think that anything presented has any shred of de-confirming power to it, by all means keep that ideal, because it's obviously not going to change no matter how much reasoning meets your fad opinion.

Um, there are some people who can not be convinced that Ness still has a chance, these people refuse to think beyond "up until now", and jump to conclusions.. If Sakurai's quotes can not convince them that Ness still has a chance I don't think any of us can... Well atleast not the ones that are trolls.

 

[~Krystal~]

As grim as Ness' prospects are....I really hope he somehow gets back into Brawl. He is such a loved Mother character. Would be a shame to see Earthbound 2's hero fade away.

 

[adumbrodeus]

Um, there are some people who can not be convinced that Ness still has a chance, these people refuse to think beyond "up until now", and jump to conclusions.. If Sakurai's quotes can not convince them that Ness still has a chance I don't think any of us can... Well atleast not the ones that are trolls.

Seriously folks, can't you read people's arguments. He has made it quite clear that he isn't arguing Ness is deconfirmed (aka "has no chance"), he's merely arguing that Ness will not being in the final game. A perfectly legitimate opinion to have, and he's defending it reasonably well.

He's not a troll, he just has an opinion, and he's arguing it, and you folks calling him a troll is just a cheap tech to defeat his argument without using reason to oppose it.

You're amazing, you stunning example of a talking cod-piece, you. By describing exactly what you've been doing for the past however many posts and rebutting with no other evidence than "no u" and "you said this so i'll say it too and try to sound witty! >:|", you have completely discredited me and anybody who shares my opinion, kudos.

As far as speed is concerned, I meant movement speed. Notice how Marth and Roy are different in terms of attack delay and attack speed, speed doesn't make those characters different to play at all now, does it? Why, Roy must be top tier with that kind of logic! If you honestly still think that anything presented has any shred of de-confirming power to it, by all means keep that ideal, because it's obviously not going to change no matter how much reasoning meets your fad opinion.

There's something called being civil, learn to be it.

Anyway, he's not arguing Ness is deconfirmed, he's clarified his argument, he just thinks that Ness isn't gonna make it, which is different then saying that he has no chance.




I like Ness personally, however it seems to me like his prospects are grim, and the possibility that the English site jumped the gun doesn't help. He doesn't seem like he'll make it, but he isn't deconfirmed.