Ness is out: Come and help those in denial...

[vesperview]

So your saying Ness did not appear in any of the previous smash games?

because I don't know how you can indicate that Ness was in previous Smash games with the word "appear" without using "ed" at the end.

From my point of view, all that sentence says is "Ness was in the other games, and Lucas is like him because they are from the same family of pk users"

The sentence says, Ness had been in the Smash series up until now and Lucas is very similar, probably in an attempt to make people feel Ness isn't completely absent, you know after he deconfirmed him.

 

[Triple_Factorial]

Disclaimers: AKA legal false advertising. And as I said before:

"Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now

Ness appeared until now

End of story."

You might as well make that your signature if you're going to use it this often.

 

[DeuceBlade]

Ether way, it says he's out.

...I hate fanboys. I seriously do.

Well atleast you admit to being a hater.

But you have to be pretty narrow minded to think "up until now" completely removes every trace of Ness from brawl. Because if he doesn't get in as playable he will definitely show his face elsewhere

 

[HollabackRyu]

ness is a goner and you people are set for a huge disappoinment, kthxbai!

 

[DeuceBlade]

Not as big as the disappointment for the people who thought something massive would happen on dec 3rd.

 

[AdmantNESS]

Its about time I posted something I found on another forum (Though it won't stop the arguing):

Think about the sentence in a different context.

"Up until now" means that the subject in question has relevancy from the start and up to this point in time defined herein as now. If you were to say "up until last year," the subject is relevant from start and up to the point of the beginning of last year (or however one places "year" in context). By saying that Ness has been a Smash member "up until now," this means that Ness has been a member since the beginning and up to this point in time. This does not mean that Ness is no longer a member, it only means that it has been confirmed that Ness is a member up to the point at which the statement was made. Since we don't understand the context completely, we don't know if "now" means within the Brawl timeline or if it means the time in between Melee and Brawl. We can say we don't understand because Brawl hasn't been officially released yet. Either way, it's neither a confirmation or a denial.

For example "We have received no information up until now." This means that from the beginning to the point designated as "now," no information has been received by the subject "we." It doesn't mean that "we" will never receive "information." What happens after that point hasn't been defined yet.

 

[HollabackRyu]

Not as big as the disappointment for the people who thought something massive would happen on dec 3rd.

Still a dissapointment nonetheless.

 

[RegalBuster]

Ether way, it says he's out.

...I hate fanboys. I seriously do.

fanboy? that's offensive. and i hate you to.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Well atleast you admit to being a hater.

But you have to be pretty narrow minded to think "up until now" completely removes every trace of Ness from brawl. Because if he doesn't get in as playable he will definitely show his face elsewhere

There’s a character named Ness who has appeared in the Smash Bros. series up until now, and Lucas is very similar.

Hmmm... nowhere in there does it mention Ness as a playable character. It is a direct statement. Ness was in the game... until now... How are you people able to derive any other meaning? That is what we call DENIAL.

 

[DeuceBlade]

Its about time I posted something I found on another forum (Though it won't stop the arguing):

Think about the sentence in a different context.

"Up until now" means that the subject in question has relevancy from the start and up to this point in time defined herein as now. If you were to say "up until last year," the subject is relevant from start and up to the point of the beginning of last year (or however one places "year" in context). By saying that Ness has been a Smash member "up until now," this means that Ness has been a member since the beginning and up to this point in time. This does not mean that Ness is no longer a member, it only means that it has been confirmed that Ness is a member up to the point at which the statement was made. Since we don't understand the context completely, we don't know if "now" means within the Brawl timeline or if it means the time in between Melee and Brawl. We can say we don't understand because Brawl hasn't been officially released yet. Either way, it's neither a confirmation or a denial.

For example "We have received no information up until now." This means that from the beginning to the point designated as "now," no information has been received by the subject "we." It doesn't mean that "we" will never receive "information." What happens after that point hasn't been defined yet.

This quote is very good.

But what people are failing to realize is, Ness Fans hope that Ness gets in, we are not saying NESS = IN 4 SHUREEs, because we don't jump to conclusions like the Ness Haters.

They think they are Sakurai or something and know for sure Ness is out, instead of saying "I don't think ness will come back" they go " NESS won't come back".

If they didn't deal in absolutes then there would be less tension, but most of them are trolls anyway lol.

Hmmm... nowhere in there does it mention Ness as a playable character. It is a direct statement. Ness was in the game... until now... How are you people able to derive any other meaning? That is what we call DENIAL.

This is what we call.. jumping to conclusions.

 

[RegalBuster]

Sakurais not saying Ness is out but you haters go on a frenzy over 3 that actually mean that he just hasn't ben confirmed yet.

 

[vesperview]

For example "We have received no information up until now." This means that from the beginning to the point designated as "now," no information has been received by the subject "we." It doesn't mean that "we" will never receive "information." What happens after that point hasn't been defined yet.

You people... anyway, if you're saying "I have received no information, up until now" you're saying you already got some information, because you hadn't received any information until you made that statement, it doesn't mean you haven't gotten anything and that you will get it in two months.

In this case, you people are the ones drawing the wrong conclusions and looking way too much into quotes that make no sense once you twist them to your own benefit.

 

[Triple_Factorial]

This quote is very good.

But what people are failing to realize is, Ness Fans hope that Ness gets in, we are not saying NESS = IN 4 SHUREEs, because we don't jump to conclusions like the Ness Haters.

They think they are Sakurai or something and know for sure Ness is out, instead of saying "I don't think ness will come back" they go " NESS won't come back".

If they didn't deal in absolutes then there would be less tension, but most of them are trolls anyway lol.

That's one of the problems with the Ness Wars. If you are anything short of 100% sure that Ness will not return, you're considered a pro-Ness fanboy/fangirl in denial. Only when that 100% is reached can one be on the anti-Ness side. The same goes with Nook, but that's for another time.

 

[RegalBuster]

That's one of the problems with the Ness Wars. If you are anything short of 100% sure that Ness will not return, you're considered a pro-Ness fanboy/fangirl in denial. Only when that 100% is reached can one be on the anti-Ness side. The same goes with Nook, but that's for another time.

I'm aNess fangirl and i don't care that peope know that, being pro ness is better than going with the haters so your not made fun of.

 

[DeuceBlade]

You people... anyway, if you're saying "I have received no information, up until now" you're saying you already got some information, because you hadn't received any information until you made that statement, it doesn't mean you haven't gotten anything and that you will get it in two months.

In this case, you people are the ones drawing the wrong conclusions and looking way too much into quotes that make no sense once you twist them to your own benefit.

How are be drawing the wrong conclusions? Us wanting Ness in brawl is alot different from People who aren't Sakurai deconfirming him based on 3 words that can be used in different ways.

And what quotes are we looking way to much into? we are pretty straight forward with what we hope for in this situation.

 

[vesperview]

How are be drawing the wrong conclusions? Us wanting Ness in brawl is alot different from People who aren't Sakurai deconfirming him based on 3 words that can be used in different ways.

And what quotes are we looking way to much into? we are pretty straight forward with what we hope for in this situation.

I fail to see how "You're all a bunch of trolls, Ness will return cause he's awesome" is being pretty straightforward and all of the examples you people have provided with the words UP UNTIL NOW, don't mean what you're trying to make them mean.

 

[RegalBuster]

In this case, you people are the ones drawing the wrong conclusions and looking way too much into quotes that make no sense once you twist them to your own benefit.

 

[DeuceBlade]

Your jumping to conclusions again, we Hope/want ness to return, we did not say he will.

and lets face it.. people who comment in threads constantly to spark tension are trolls.

 

[vesperview]

In this case, you people are the ones drawing the wrong conclusions and looking way too much into quotes that make no sense once you twist them to your own benefit.

You're not contributing to any side of the argument, just adding fuel to the fire, so you may as well deliver some reasoning or stay out of it.

Your jumping to conclusions again, we Hope/want ness to return, we did not say he will.

I was making mockery of you people, not drawing any conclusions.

 

[RegalBuster]

You're not contributing to any side of the argument, just adding fuel to the fire, so you may as well deliver some reasoning or stay out of it.

 

[vesperview]

You're not contributing to any side of the argument, just adding fuel to the fire, so you may as well deliver some reasoning or stay out of it.

See what I mean?

 

[DeuceBlade]

Regal, I know your not Anti-Ness, but don't troll due to anger.. its just a game lol.

I was making mockery of you people, not drawing any conclusions.

Your mockery did not succeed, and yes you actually were jumping to conclusions. again.

 

[vesperview]

I'm tired of this, every new Ness thread turns into a flame war, we'll see what happens, at least you people can accept the odds are against him.

Your mockery did not succeed, and yes you actually were jumping to conclusions. again.

Just go back to the other Ness thread to see some of the reasons you have give for him to return and you'll end up making mockery of yourself to.

 

[RegalBuster]

I'm not angry i'm just joking around also you know what i hate more than haters..haters who won't leave a topic dedicted to the thing they hate when obviously they're not wanted so that the people who don't hate the thing can talk about it with out the annoying haters.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

The word "until" is an exclusive term. "I was your friend up until now." That means, I am not your friend at this point. "I was winning until he made that shot." Obviously, that shot tied the game.

You Ness supporters are grammatically challenged. You are twisting the meaning of words to support your own agenda. Meanwhile, the rest of the world read that update and said, "Hm, Ness is out. Interesting."

 

[vesperview]

I'm not angry i'm just joking around also you know what i hate more than haters..haters who won't leave a topic dedicted to the thing they hate when obviously they're not wanted so that the people who don't hate the thing can talk about it with out the annoying haters.

Why don't you read the thread title?

 

[RegalBuster]

I'm not necessarily talking about this topic but in generel, i also hate how this whole forum seems like a "let's see how many ****ing arguments we can have going at the same time!" forum.

 

[Cless]

It wasn't bad until Brawl was announced...

 

[Fawriel]

we Hope/want ness to return, we did not say he will.

don't troll due to anger.. its just a game lol.

These are, without a doubt, the best argument a Ness supporter ever made in this thread.

As I can't blame anyone for innocent false hope, I can't possibly mock you anymore.
Curse you! *shakes fist*


... I like Ness, by the way. I just think he's definitely not playable. Many Ness supporters ask questions like "so because of this and this and that, Ness CAN'T be in?" .... It's not so much that those facts mean that he CAN'T be in, it means that he won't because Sakurai has full control over their movesets and wouldn't, say, give Lucas pretty much the same moves when he has such a rich library of completely different moves to draw from.
It's kinda like the Black Knight debate...
Ike is obscenely slow in Brawl. That pretty much guarantees that Black Knight won't be in, because Black Knight pretty much has to be slower than Ike, even if the guy can move moderately fast in his games, because Ike himself was rather fast in his games, yet Sakurai chose to make him so slow... and if he still intended to have the Black Knight in, he would have made Ike faster and BK slower.
It's a similar situation to this one. Ness could, by all means, still be in the game, but it would make me wonder what the hell was going on in Sakurai's mind when he made Lucas so incredibly similar, and why he made that powerful hint that Ness is out.

 

[error_alt_delete]

The word "until" is an exclusive term. "I was your friend up until now." That means, I am not your friend at this point. "I was winning until he made that shot." Obviously, that shot tied the game.

You Ness supporters are grammatically challenged. You are twisting the meaning of words to support your own agenda. Meanwhile, the rest of the world read that update and said, "Hm, Ness is out. Interesting."

These are, without a doubt, the best argument a Ness supporter ever made in this thread.

As I can't blame anyone for innocent false hope, I can't possibly mock you anymore.
Curse you! *shakes fist*


... I like Ness, by the way. I just think he's definitely not playable. Many Ness supporters ask questions like "so because of this and this and that, Ness CAN'T be in?" .... It's not so much that those facts mean that he CAN'T be in, it means that he won't because Sakurai has full control over their movesets and wouldn't, say, give Lucas pretty much the same moves when he has such a rich library of completely different moves to draw from.
It's kinda like the Black Knight debate...
Ike is obscenely slow in Brawl. That pretty much guarantees that Black Knight won't be in, because Black Knight pretty much has to be slower than Ike, even if the guy can move moderately fast in his games, because Ike himself was rather fast in his games, yet Sakurai chose to make him so slow... and if he still intended to have the Black Knight in, he would have made Ike faster and BK slower.
It's a similar situation to this one. Ness could, by all means, still be in the game, but it would make me wonder what the hell was going on in Sakurai's mind when he made Lucas so incredibly similar, and why he made that powerful hint that Ness is out.

you two hit the nail on the head thank you.

 

[NukeA6]

Just let the Ness fanboys stick to their dreams. They haven't learned enough English to understand the meaning of "Up until now".

We'll have our fun when Ness is confirmed as an AT, item, stage prop, or just as a trophy.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Just let the Ness fanboys stick to their dreams. They haven't learned enough English to understand the meaning of "Up until now".

We'll have our fun when Ness is confirmed as an AT, item, stage prop, or just as a trophy.

The thread title needs to be retitled "let the Ness fans theorize in peace".

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Dreams nothing.

Ness will return, and I will have my third Brawl "I freaking told you so" moment over half of the internet.

Victory shall be sweet.

And I am totally not a Ness fanboy. xD
[/blatant lie]

 

[hyruleboy]

Just let the Ness fanboys stick to their dreams. They haven't learned enough English to understand the meaning of "Up until now".

We'll have our fun when Ness is confirmed as an AT, item, stage prop, or just as a trophy.

There's going to be a referance.
BUT NESS WON'T BE PLAYABLE EVERYONE!!!
LEARN ENGLISH!

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

There's going to be a referance.
BUT NESS WON'T BE PLAYABLE EVERYONE!!!
LEARN ENGLISH!

Learn that wording is not always perfect when crossing the language barrier.

He will be playable, and I will rejoice.

 

[hyruleboy]

Learn that wording is not always perfect when crossing the language barrier.

He will be playable, and I will rejoice.

WT heck are you on?
Listen, go play MOTHER 2 and 3(Unless you already have)

Spoiler

If they included that theature in MOTHER 3 that had Ness, You would be lucky,
Considering my homie in a baseball cap WILL not be playable.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

WT heck are you on?
Listen, go play MOTHER 2 and 3(Unless you already have)

Spoiler

If they included that theature in MOTHER 3 that had Ness, You would be lucky,
Considering my homie in a baseball cap WILL not be playable.

I have played MOTHER 2, but MOTHER 3 is sadly out of my reach without game scripts. Which are an enormous pain in the ***.

But I do believe Ness will return.

 

[hyruleboy]

I have played MOTHER 2, but MOTHER 3 is sadly out of my reach without game scripts. Which are an enormous pain in the ***.

But I do believe Ness will return.

You don't need a translation! Rejoice!
Anyway, Ness is awesome, but I just can't see his return, I would be filled with nogistia if there was a cameo.

 

[PRINCESS PEACH777]

i don't think that ness won't be back he will be and i'm sure about it

 

[Aamon]

I can't see them taking Ness out.
He's been there since the beginning...

Lucas and Ness will probably be semi-clones like Mario and Luigi are.