NEC XIII - A Huge Opportunity for the Smash Community!

[smashbro29]

I feel like showing off Project:M at a big sponsored event or many big sponsored events might show Nintendo what people want. I think it should definitely be wherever the community can get it.

 

[da K.I.D.]

I feel like showing off Project:M at a big sponsored event or many big sponsored events might show Nintendo what SOME people want. I think it should definitely be wherever the community can get it.

editted for accuracy

 

[Kite91]

When will we find out if melee or brawl is being played so I know if I should even try for this lol really want melee

 

[Mew2King]

Don't change it?
Someone who mods a game specifically to improve the game experience doesn't understand, and doesn't have the right, to talk about what a good game experience is?
If you don't like the game, leave it alone and play something else?

This is hilariously hypocritical coming from a community that's split over whether or not to surgically remove a character from the game. Mew2King lost a tournament game because of a rule that prevents the player from going under the stage twice in a row, and another because he won via time out and he had 37 Ledge Grabs and his opponent did not. If you want to start talking about arbitrary changes, you seriously need to take a good look at your own community first.
.

Yeah, it's pretty ********, but a huge fighting game tourney WITH SPONSORS like this shouldn't have a HACKED, FAN MADE GAME over the official ones.

 

[Djent]

We can ban swaths of content from all 3 titles, alter the win conditions of the games (not playing out Sudden Death, limiting ledge grabs, hilarious anti-scrooging rules), but hacking? NOOOO, that's just too far - we have to play our games the way they were intended to be played.

 

[da K.I.D.]

The jump between making some extra rules to facilitate the game and playing an entirely different game that wasnt even made by the company who provided the base material is a little bit bigger of a jump then you give it credit for.

 

[ぱみゅ]

There are times when I ask myself if Smash communities have some kind of big consensus to take the most illogical and self-destructive decisions based on baseless arguments while contradicting themselves; or they are actually stupid and they simply refuse to listen....

 

[GHNeko]

That's just fighting game communities in general.

Welcome to competitive gaming.

 

[Djent]

The jump between making some extra rules to facilitate the game and playing an entirely different game that wasnt even made by the company who provided the base material is a little bit bigger of a jump then you give it credit for.

Those "extra rules" vastly alter the experience one has when playing the game. It's not identical to hacking in terms of the scope of change, but there's no logical reason to be completely okay with the former while adamantly protesting! the latter.

 

[dragoniota]

You keep using Starcraft and other PC games for your arguements but one thing you aren't thinking about is that the PC community always mods their games. It is ENCOURAGED for them to do so.
I 100% support Brawl and Melee at this tournament :D

 

[shanus]

There are times when I ask myself if Smash communities have some kind of big consensus to take the most illogical and self-destructive decisions based on baseless arguments while contradicting themselves; or they are actually stupid and they simply refuse to listen....

Condescending posts are the best, and given your stance in this thread, I would probably guess the latter.

But I agree with your first point, I lost my confidence in the smash community ages ago.

 

[smashbro29]

editted for accuracy

Yeah, let's ignore competition for a second.

Project:M is simply a better game, it's faster and more fluid and the character's moves are just... better. More complexity more uniqueness.

And now on a competitive level:

Are you outta your freakin' mind?

 

[da K.I.D.]

We aren't telling you not to support Brawl. The least you can do is the same.

So youre telling me that you guys ARENT telling people not to support Brawl?

the game developers cater specifically to that community, while ours ****s on it? A laughable notion.

we're either stuck with a really old game or a really bad one. There aren't as many options to choose from, unlike the Street Fighter community.

And while vSF4 was silly, it was leagues ahead of vBrawl, to compare the two is silly.

And what you're not aware of is that brawl is literally the worst balanced game I know. I say this on the basis of standard deviations.



The basic reason for the mods is, Brawl, a game that never should have been considered for competitive play, somehow took root where it never should. If we all did move back to Melee, then things might have worked out alright. When Capcom didn't release great games, Super Turbo kept them strong. I don't know what it is about the Smash community, but for some reason that idea never sunk in. But fact is, like it or not, Brawl is popular, and I'm sure every modder in the brawl workshop thought the same thing I did when I found out that it was possible to mod brawl, "Lets make it like Melee." And hell, we might as well, it's not like there isn't precedent for modders making games better, it's happened since the dawn of esports.

I feel like showing off Project:M at a big sponsored event or many big sponsored events might show Nintendo what people want. I think it should definitely be wherever the community can get it.

We can ban swaths of content from all 3 titles, alter the win conditions of the games (not playing out Sudden Death, limiting ledge grabs, hilarious anti-scrooging rules), but hacking? NOOOO, that's just too far - we have to play our games the way they were intended to be played.

Yeah, let's ignore competition for a second.

Project:M is simply a better game, it's faster and more fluid and the character's moves are just... better. More complexity more uniqueness.

And now on a competitive level:

Are you outta your freakin' mind?

Very few straight forward statements but the implications of the words used are impossible to ignore.

#Hypocrisy.

This will honestly be my last post here and im unsubbing the thread.
anybody who wants to continue this dialogue, feel free to post on my wall or PM me.

 

[Slashy]

So youre telling me that you guys ARENT telling people not to support Brawl?



















Very few straight forward statements but the implications of the words used are impossible to ignore.

#Hypocrisy.

This will honestly be my last post here and im unsubbing the thread.
anybody who wants to continue this dialogue, feel free to post on my wall or PM me.

Just because we feel Brawl is a bad game does not mean we want to stop you from having it at tournaments/Smashfests.

 

[smashbro29]

Basically: You can play Barbie's Horse Adventure on PS2 competitively for all I care. It doesn't mean there isn't plausible reason to call Barbie's Horse Adventure a **** game.

 

[Slashy]

I wouldn't compare Brawl to Barbie's Horse Adventure though, haha

 

[smashbro29]

I wouldn't compare Brawl to Barbie's Horse Adventure though, haha

The idea being you can play whatever you want and it doesn't matter to me.

 

[Yeroc]

da K.I.D., I think the difference here is that, while many PM supporters might think Brawl is a bad game and like to vocalize that opinion, few to none of them are trolling Brawl tournament threads insinuating the game doesn't have a legitimate right to a competitive community. Conversely, people actually do a lot of this in PM threads.

I think Brawl is a bad game. I also think several other fighters aren't terribly great either. I would never play any of them competitively. But if people like playing them for money and find other like-minded people willing to establish a competitive scene, then hey cool for you. I think you're playing a bad game but you do whatever you want. Just leave us alone while we try to build a scene around a game we care about, and we'll do the same for you.

That all said, I would support Melee and PM, obviously.

 

[cannedbread]

i'm probably the minority that supports pretty much all of the smash games. i only play p:m and a little melee competitively, but i find competitive brawl and even 64 a bit interesting. i wouldn't play really play them competitively because it feels really alien and, well, i just don't like it as much as melee or p:m. but i still find competitive brawl entertaining to watch.

 

[Evilagram]

Primary arguments this round seem to be that because this tournament will have sponsors that we shouldn't support a game that doesn't have the Nintendo seal of approval and that "yeah, PC GAMES have competitive mods, but a console game, heaven forbid!"

The origin of the game is unimportant. If you seriously think supporting a modified version of a game over the original is in any way destructive, then I'd like to at least hear a reason why, because given the prior statements I'm forced to guess a bit. So far it seems like a lot of people think that melee and brawl are automatically better because they are official and no other reason. "You think you can outdo the creator?!" Us and tons of other competitive modding communities can and have.

Of course these communities are primary PC based because before now console game modding on this scale has been unprecedented and technically impossible. But if you for some reason think that means that console game modding shouldn't be done, then get over it.

I'll come out and say I don't like brawl's competitive popularity one bit, however if you want to play it, you are entitled to that decision, but don't push the heads of other perfectly legitimate games like project m and brawl minus under the water because of your preferences. We had sfxt at evo after all. If a game has a player base then it is entitled to be played regardless of faults. Also, brawl mods should be given a fair chance to shine, rather than being dismissed on some absurd principle.

Objections like saying that supporting these games are "self-destructive" are disingenuous, and seem to support some sort of idea that the profitability of a game is more important than the nature of the game itself. Not to mention it makes conjectures on the profitability of the game that are totally unsubstantiated by any form of evidence or precedent. That and no one making this argument, this includes you M2K, has given any sort of reason why we shouldn't support hacked and modified games at a huge tournament with sponsors, other than that it shouldn't be done. This frankly leads me to believe that some of these objectors are worried about their bottom line more than what is good for the game.

Sorry for the long post and drama, I'm in support of melee, project m and brawl minus at the tournament. Have a nice day.

 

[ぱみゅ]

That and no one making this argument, this includes you M2K, has given any sort of reason why we shouldn't support hacked and modified games at a huge tournament with sponsors, other than that it shouldn't be done. This frankly leads me to believe that some of these objectors are worried about their bottom line more than what is good for the game.

At this point this may sound silly (specially for people supporting P:M), but yes, this is the point exactly.

Is not about the game itself being good or bad (I have never played P:M, so I am not criticizing it), but having a hacked game in this kind of events has many implications with many parties, like other games' communities, sponsors, and observers like Namco and Nintendo themselves.
Nobody knows what could happen there: it could just go ignored, it could catch some people's attention and be supported even further, it could make sponsors not to like the Smash idea, or Nintendo not to care about their games anymore because they'll sell and then get modded anyway.
Is it really worth it to risk a franchise's future just because some people don't want to play the game in its right place and moment, outside these events?

 

[Evilagram]

At this point this may sound silly (specially for people supporting P:M), but yes, this is the point exactly.

Is not about the game itself being good or bad (I have never played P:M, so I am not criticizing it), but having a hacked game in this kind of events has many implications with many parties, like other games' communities, sponsors, and observers like Namco and Nintendo themselves.
Nobody knows what could happen there: it could just go ignored, it could catch some people's attention and be supported even further, it could make sponsors not to like the Smash idea, or Nintendo not to care about their games anymore because they'll sell and then get modded anyway.
Is it really worth it to risk a franchise's future just because some people don't want to play the game in its right place and moment, outside these events?

Thanks for the reply sir.

Y'know, I hear two big themes in this.
1. Money speaks.
2. "I know the thought patterns of Nintendo and sponsors"

If modding brawl to create something worthwhile in its place means no more smash games, I'll be okay with that. Melee has run strong for a decade. As a community, we are all obsessed. What will more smash games offer us if they are not like melee? Only further fragmented player bases is what I see. If modding brawl sends the message that Nintendo screwed up, so be it. I don't want a repeat of old events even if it means shaking the concept of console games up in the process. It's definitely preferable to sending no message at all.

However you are proposing we stay silent. That we make no message, that we stay the course. That we accept what Nintendo gives us even if it's bad. That profitability is more important than the quality of the game.

I can't make any sort of claim about what promoting hacked games will do, the only precedent for this industry wide is all the modders who were hired to produce games because they showed they knew what they were doing from hacking them. The entire turbo mode in sf2 was inspired by a modded version of sf2 with turbo mode. CPMA went on as the basis for quake live. The people who modified quake to make team fortress were hired by valve as were the people who modified half life to make counter strike.

The only reason we haven't seen this in console games more is that there was no one to set the precedent for it.

We should set the precedent of valuing quality above all else.

But you know what I think will happen? Nothing. I think that the lot of this is a ton of guessing. Since when has Nintendo interacted with the fans in any way?

Not to mention you took this in a ridiculous way by presuming that hacks are criticisms of nintendo's work and that Nintendo will even actually care at all that this is happening, especially if it gets wider exposure in the competitive circuits Nintendo doesn't even know or care about. P:M was on the front page of ign in the same breath as halo 4 and Diablo 3, you can't get wider exposure than that.

"Caesar is dead. Long live Caesar"

 

[Slashy]

At this point this may sound silly (specially for people supporting P:M), but yes, this is the point exactly.

Is not about the game itself being good or bad (I have never played P:M, so I am not criticizing it), but having a hacked game in this kind of events has many implications with many parties, like other games' communities, sponsors, and observers like Namco and Nintendo themselves.
Nobody knows what could happen there: it could just go ignored, it could catch some people's attention and be supported even further, it could make sponsors not to like the Smash idea, or Nintendo not to care about their games anymore because they'll sell and then get modded anyway.
Is it really worth it to risk a franchise's future just because some people don't want to play the game in its right place and moment, outside these events?

Yes it absolutely is, if you aren't satisfied with your game then modding it to be better can definitely send a message as evilagram pointed out it has done so many times in the past. You're openly admitting that you not only agree that the game has major problems that would better be solved by hacks, but that the only reason that you refuse to agree to try it is that it might not make as much money. You are designing your game (via extensive rulesets, instead of game modifications) not around the best possible experience, but around trying to please a few key entities that apparently to you give your game significance. You seem to operate around the understanding that what's best for the sponsors is what is best for the community.

If you care so much about money, why DON'T you play something else? Brawl has been dying for years now, it's been taken off of EVO ,taken away from MLG, and taken away from a host of other events, it's clearly not the most profitable game out there. If you cared about the experience , you'd be clearly pushing for Balanced Brawl to appear at events like these, so what exactly compels you to continue to choose Brawl over several other games.

In many other communities, the producers have given modders/game researchers/fangame developers job offers, if this was Capcom/Valve/SEGA/id we were dealing with, I'd expect Shanus, Magus, and several of the other PMBR members (and maybe a few people who directed some other mods) to have job offers with promises from the company themselves that the next game would be better than before. David Sirlin (Low Strong) and Seth Killian (S-Kill) both received job offers at Capcom due to their understanding of Street Fighter. As much as you might be frightened that this will look bad on us, it has given people job offers, and has created better installments. Super Street Fighter 2 Turbo and Starcraft are only amazing tournament games because of the developers recognizing the modding efforts of the fanbase.

 

[smashbro29]

So I just saw this

http://www.ign.com/articles/2012/08/07/masahiro-sakurai-talks-super-smash-bros-4

Yeah, even IGN knows what's up.

(Hint: Watch the video)

 

[MattDotZeb]

Project M and Melee.

Additionally, all legal concerns are out the window since P:M in no way condones hacking your wii. Given the game can be loaded with "hackless" means through a brawl stage-loader exploit, I think it is pretty much a moot point. Additionally, you wouldn't put your PR around saying "brawl is a terrible game and needed modifications to be competitive" you would present it to sponsors with a much more positive spin about a community project that has evolved to have a huge scene around the country... If games like DOTA, CS, etc, can pull it off, I fail to see why smash is any exception other than a closed-minded community. Whether you personally dislike PM or not is a side issue in its entirety, because everyone is entitled to their own preference.

Everything about this is right.

 

[ぱみゅ]

Apparently nobody's been reading my posts...

First, you can't just shut Brawl off.
Scene exists and is really big. Just in january this year it was held the largest Brawl tournament ever, with over 400 entries. There are still many possibilities for the game.
When you all wrote about this, I knew this discussion can't keep happening or we'll reach really unwanted points.

Second,
Capcom is known for having a great care for their competitive scene and their fans (but Megaman fans...), and they do research A LOT before doing anything (or they do it anyway, test it, and then they patch it). They just DO care for the future of their franchises, and even hire people that understood the games more than themselves for increasing the game experience.
However, Nintendo is not exactly known for that, they have even make some games worse (Mario Party 9, anyone?). I doubt they will hire people just because they hacked their game.
That said, I think I clearly wrote "anything can happen there", implying that it could be good, or bad for the franchise. In any case, is a flipcoin where there are more chances for it to be bad.
There are ways to communicate what people want, and personally I don't think featuring a hacked gane is the right choice.

Third, hacks are generally seen as bad. As in, have you ever seen a hacked game to be featured in these kind of events like EVO, NorCal Install, etc?
When Brawl was featured on MLG, they didn't allow any hacked setup, even if it was just for allow for infinite replays, even though the tournament director was a Smash player.

Fourth, I think I'm trying too hard.
I am really trying to make some people understand why using hacks on these events is not recommendable (overall, I'm not talking about only Smash), but you just are still refusing to listen...
I guess I should do as KID and move on, there is no point on arguing here...

 

[Slashy]

Apparently nobody's been reading my posts...

First, you can't just shut Brawl off.
Scene exists and is really big. Just in january this year it was held the largest Brawl tournament ever, with over 400 entries. There are still many possibilities for the game.
When you all wrote about this, I knew this discussion can't keep happening or we'll reach really unwanted points.

Second,
Capcom is known for having a great care for their competitive scene and their fans (but Megaman fans...), and they do research A LOT before doing anything (or they do it anyway, test it, and then they patch it). They just DO care for the future of their franchises, and even hire people that understood the games more than themselves for increasing the game experience.
However, Nintendo is not exactly known for that, they have even make some games worse (Mario Party 9, anyone?). I doubt they will hire people just because they hacked their game.
That said, I think I clearly wrote "anything can happen there", implying that it could be good, or bad for the franchise. In any case, is a flipcoin where there are more chances for it to be bad.
There are ways to communicate what people want, and personally I don't think featuring a hacked gane is the right choice.

Third, hacks are generally seen as bad. As in, have you ever seen a hacked game to be featured in these kind of events like EVO, NorCal Install, etc?
When Brawl was featured on MLG, they didn't allow any hacked setup, even if it was just for allow for infinite replays, even though the tournament director was a Smash player.

Fourth, I think I'm trying too hard.
I am really trying to make some people understand why using hacks on these events is not recommendable (overall, I'm not talking about only Smash), but you just are still refusing to listen...
I guess I should do as KID and move on, there is no point on arguing here...

I think you didn't read evilagram's arguments at all, he provided evidence that counters several of your points. I think you refuse to listen to our arguments.

 

[Evilagram]

First, I can damn well try.

Second, "Nintendo is mute" was the ending of my last post. They aren't known for doing what everyone else is. They're known for not caring. We're not communicating a thing because nintendo isn't listening.

Your flipcoin analogy is meaningless conjecture, and I explained why that was in my previous post. there are a lot of things that could go good or bad, you don't know the odds of any of these. You don't know whether there are more things that will go bad than good. My best guess on the matter is, Project M will not send a message of any kind, and it will succeed or fail on its own merits, and the smash scene will be affected thusly.

Third, then change how people see hacks. Hacks are not inherently a bad thing. You are massively worried over other people's perceptions of smash when Nintendo and sponsors don't have a reason to even care and have shown no signs of caring in the past.

Fourth, we are telling you that your reasons have no substantiation, they are all guesswork. Please do not act like we are thick in the head.

 

[Nintendude]

I really enjoy PM and would love to enter a large PM tournament, but I'd have to side with m2k and others with not having a modded game at such a large and important event. It is not about the money at all. It does not matter one bit how "legal" PM appears to be or how little action Nintendo has taken. The fact is that Nintendo owns the rights to Brawl and SSB in general. If Nintendo decided that NEC XIII and anyone affiliated with it profited from an infringement on their intellectual property, Nintendo could bring down the hammer and shut it down. We would not have the money or resources to fight such a large company on something like this. It's simply not worth the risk and we should be happy with just getting Melee and/or Brawl there.

Also, it is really important for Smash to get sponsors, and m2k has a good point that Melee/Brawl are much more likely to get sponsored than PM. In fact, it would be dangerous for a company to sponsor a hacked game. Sponsors aren't just for increasing pot size. They help gain media attention, improved equipment (like livestreams), better venues, and just in general improve the overall tournament experience and make it more professional by supplying resources that are hard to get on our own. Getting sponsors should always be a top priority for the community.

 

[pidgezero_one]

i'm probably the minority that supports pretty much all of the smash games. i only play p:m and a little melee competitively, but i find competitive brawl and even 64 a bit interesting. i wouldn't play really play them competitively because it feels really alien and, well, i just don't like it as much as melee or p:m. but i still find competitive brawl entertaining to watch.

kudos for being mature


I actually am a brawl player and all I do is complain about how dumb the game is

though to be fair I do that about all 3 games

 

[Gliffie]

I think the most important point is that we feature competitive Smash. Doesn't matter if it's Melee, Brawl or P:M. We need to show the world that people want to play the games on a higher level than FFA with items on very high. As much as I'd love P:M being showcased and gaining more attention, Melee and Brawl can't afford to lose focus. Featuring them 50/50 would be the best.

 

[Evilagram]

I really enjoy PM and would love to enter a large PM tournament, but I'd have to side with m2k and others with not having a modded game at such a large and important event. It is not about the money at all. It does not matter one bit how "legal" PM appears to be or how little action Nintendo has taken. The fact is that Nintendo owns the rights to Brawl and SSB in general. If Nintendo decided that NEC XIII and anyone affiliated with it profited from an infringement on their intellectual property, Nintendo could bring down the hammer and shut it down. We would not have the money or resources to fight such a large company on something like this. It's simply not worth the risk and we should be happy with just getting Melee and/or Brawl there.

Also, it is really important for Smash to get sponsors, and m2k has a good point that Melee/Brawl are much more likely to get sponsored than PM. In fact, it would be dangerous for a company to sponsor a hacked game. Sponsors aren't just for increasing pot size. They help gain media attention, improved equipment (like livestreams), better venues, and just in general improve the overall tournament experience and make it more professional by supplying resources that are hard to get on our own. Getting sponsors should always be a top priority for the community.

Machinima shows multiple videos featuring modifications. Machinima clearly has no worries about legal concerns. They know the law. They know Nintendo isn't going to do a thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=647Jiy_TH1M&t=1m0s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ikbdG8XUXns#t=207s
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe7H8CKuOpk&feature=relmfu

EDIT: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tf8GG3gwam8&feature=related
I Want to be the Guy was played at Evo 2012, which includes a ton of video game properties from Nintendo and elsewhere.

I don't believe there is any evidence to indicate that Nintendo even cares. And I doubt Nintendo's legal departments are dumb enough to send out a Cease and Desist seeing as the whole practice is completely legal, and it would only serve to piss off legitimate customers and fans of their products.

I understand your concerns, I just think they are unfounded and we should strive to make and promote the best games we can. If we follow your proposal, it means shutting out potential for improvement indefinitely.

 

[Nintendude]

Fair enough on the legal concern part, but I do want to read the license agreement that comes with Brawl (I don't have any games with me so I can't check) and see what the fine print actually says.

My point with sponsors still stands though. There's no way PM would get sponsored. Before that's even considered to be a possibility the game has to be completed at the very least.

 

[Kite91]

So is it melee or brawl at this lol

 

[AlexoftheAura]

Or all of the above?

 

[_umbra_]

not gonna lie, if I were one of the hosts and I saw this thread, I would immediately stop considering smash.

 

[Revven]

not gonna lie, if I were one of the hosts and I saw this thread, I would immediately stop considering smash.

^This right here.

Bickering (that's what it looks like from an onlooker's point of view) never solves anything. Just support the games, we ALL like Smash. It's the same with the FGC, they ALL like fighting games and support the games. Stream monsters might paint a different picture, but just ask any of the more known players and you'll see they're all really open minded, Justin Wong tries every fighting game that comes out (like I remember he played Mortal Kombat for a few months).

Dissing each other over what is essentially still Smash is childish and shows the exact kind of maturity level that deters people from getting in this community.

The question was what games should represent Smash and get us noticed by sponsors to want to sponsor our games. Not: "Which smash game is the best Smash and which is not a hack that cannot possibly ever get us anywhere"...

It's okay to dislike something, for any reason, but don't dismiss a game just because you don't like it. Every game has people who like it. What I like isn't inferior because you don't like it.

For me, I feel Melee would probably be great to have there. Melee gets both players and spectators. No offense to the other Smash games, but a game should be entertaining for both types of people, spectator and player. SFxT demonstrates that, it's not entertaining for the spectator to watch but it is for the player. And that's why that game has tanked, even with positive patches being made for it. The overwhelming amount of negativity from spectators determined its fate. We need to put a game there that grabs your attention because of how flashy it is and what's going on on-screen that the other games do not and cannot do. If Sponsors see how excited players are over the game, along with spectators, that encourages them to sponsor the game.

Could Brawl do it? I dunno, maybe. But I'm not going to speak on it. I would want Melee there.

So, that's what I think. Melee please. Even though I will not be attending, I would watch it if it were streamed.

 

[GimR]

not gonna lie, if I were one of the hosts and I saw this thread, I would immediately stop considering smash.

seriously guys, talk about which games you WANT not which games you DONT WANT, Big E's not an idiot, he'll hire smashers who know what they're doing. No need to worry about the legal ramifications, the TOs can handle that themselves, sheesh

 

[GDX]

I wish smashers just supported the new game out.

even marvel 2 players that know marvel 2 is better than marvel 3...still play and support marvel 3 (ie, yipes). He just accepts the game for how it is, and he supports the game in his series which has the highest chance of viewability/success at the time.

I can honestly tell you right now that when the new smash game comes out, if I like brawl better (and im still playing smash at all) I'm still going to support the new game because thats how a community grows.

Anyway, sorry for that tangent. Big E should be announcing within a week or two if the event will indeed have smash or not. I'm going either way and I've gotten my hotel room, to support him for supporting apex and to play AE, but just for those of you still on the fence

 

[GHNeko]

Except that only marvel players who support 3, also play 3.

Sanford kelly thinks marvel 3 is trash, doesn't support the game, and stopped playing it a long time ago after being unable to prove a point.

There are plenty of marvel players who don't support 3, but are just quiet about it since there are many other games to pick from and marvel 3 isn't going anywhere any time soon.

There is als the point that mvc3 didn't *******ize its series as bad as brawl did from a competitive stand point.