NCSU Smash Stacks - Round 9 @DUKE 10/30

[DJRome]

well, you're pretty much bemoaning the fact that people take several years to get decent at it. which is true of any game or sport of worth imo

 

[Gardevior]

why would yall get serious at melee? that games to technical and will take u years and years just to be decent.

'cuz I have more fun playing it than brawl. And my end goal isn't to compete, just to have an equal shot at winning.

 

[AlcyoNite]

calling all the at's glitches is like calling calculus a glitch in math

 

[Black Mantis]

calling all the at's glitches is like calling calculus a glitch in math

Glitches, bugs, exploits, its just a semantics game.

 

[TheLastCacely]

@ lee, well im tlaking about people who are trying to get serious at it
@djrome. i'm simply saying that someone who has no knowledge of the game or any of its techs, will take them a considerable amount of time to get anywhere near local tourney status, let alone **** like pound.
@crystalnite- bro its not a bad thing to call it a glitch? stuff like wave dashing and l canceling weren't a design in the game. but people were able to exploit it. so yea i guess im calling calculus a glitch in math. :/


edit: wait a minute! why am i explaining myself to u nubs. $20mm against crystal meth and djrome at ncsu in melee.

 

[DJRome]

keith, first of all, do you think taking long to get good is something to be valued or something that detracts from the game?

also, stuff like wavedashing and l-canceling were designed into the game. do your research first. those techniques also exist in any game

 

[Ledger_Damayn]

calling all the at's glitches is like calling calculus a glitch in math

Glitch is not a negative word. A glitch is just an unintended side effect in a system or program. That is what most AT's are. Actually, nearly all of them, with exception of shfll'ing, probably.

You can call them techs, discoveries, glitches, whatever.

Keith, you're misguided. I can only speak for myself, but probably there are many that agree with me that you should play a game to start of with to have fun. Fact of the matter is that a lot of people find Melee more enjoyable in Brawl. If you refuse to play a game because it's unlikely that you're going to be #1... then you're really limiting your options on what you can do in your life.

You're not helping Brawl's case either by air dodging for 8 minutes. The more people that take negative advantage of planking, camping, infinites, etc., the less interesting the game gets as a whole.

 

[Black Mantis]

keith, first of all, do you think taking long to get good is something to be valued or something that detracts from the game?

also, stuff like wavedashing and l-canceling were designed into the game. do your research first. those techniques also exist in any game

I know this question isn't aimed at me but if its ok allow me to shoot my opinion on it. Getting good at something is something to be valued of course. However, when people get good and use that to become an elitist douchebag it takes away from the game and makes them and what they represent look bad. Take Kanye West for example, great musician but nobody likes his arrogance at all.

 

[DJRome]

well, both sides have those people. and they're mostly ignorant. so why would you based the merit of a game on how ignorant some of its community is (and a small minority at that)

 

[Juno McGrath]

Um. speak for yourself 313 kanye is my favorite human being of all time.

I love his personality and how he always speaks his mind. call that arrogance. but God forbid anyone in todays industry believes in them self.

 

[Black Mantis]

well, both sides have those people. and they're mostly ignorant. so why would you based the merit of a game on how ignorant some of its community is (and a small minority at that)

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/discussion.php?id=yyh7w6pj8xd865pm8bkk8yf0

when in doubt tv tropes!

 

[Black Mantis]

Um. speak for yourself 313 kanye is my favorite human being of all time.

I love his personality and how he always speaks his mind. call that arrogance. but God forbid anyone in todays industry believes in them self.

Don't get me wrong I love Kanye West's music. But his attitude is disgusting. How would you feel if you were winning an award and somebody told you that you're good but somebody else was better while you were getting the award?

 

[Zero_Gamer]

Kanye West is not a good musician.

Kanye West is not a musician.

 

[Black Mantis]

Kanye West is not a good musician.

Kanye West is not a musician.

That's harsh.

 

[Gardevior]

You're not helping Brawl's case either by air dodging for 8 minutes. The more people that take negative advantage of planking, camping, infinites, etc., the less interesting the game gets as a whole.

See, that's not even why I don't like Brawl that much (well, except maybe camping). It's because there's very few ways possible to follow up an attack before the other player retreats and shoots stuff at you for until you can run up and hit them to make them stop.

And Ganondorf sucks.

I do have fun with Brawl though. I just can't play in Seriouslies. Or for extended periods of time.

 

[DtJ SmithZzz]

lmao this thread.
lmao at what NC has become.

 

[Gardevior]

lmao at vagueness (people arguing?).

 

[Gardevior]

Also, 64 sidetourney is now Round Robin, so everyone will play everyone else once. Makes it easier for people to come and go as they like, and won't force me to make a bracket early in the day when half of the people might be here and the other half are coming for melee or something. Already getting foxy to update first post.

 

[Dr Peepee]

lol im talkin about the majority of people dawg. the game has gotten to the point where it will literaly take u like five years just to be where, jman, pp, zhu, shiz. people like that do great at big tournies, but face the facts, the gf of melee from here on are gonna be just like pound.
This is not a flame to melee i love our community and the bros in it, im just stating the obvious, melee players have found every glitch in that game and exploited to the fact where new people trying to get into it have no chance.

Keith, I have tried really hard to ignore this kind of nonsense from you for a long time, but I'm still sleepy and in need of typing something big-ish. So I guess thanks for not knowing stuff.


I have this theory about smash(note: MELEE AND BRAWL), and maybe other fighting games in general. You start out not being able to do much, but you learn what is relevant to the current metagame at a similar rate with similar focus, no matter when you start playing. Let me put it like this: If I had started playing in 04 and had the same drive I do now(age aside), then I would have only learned some basic things about metagame tricks(no SHL, MAYBE Ken Combo, a few simple bait strategies, and whatever I could come up with on my own). There wouldn't be much at my disposal, but what I could think up/read I would internalize and make the most of.
If I started to learn in 06, suddenly I have a great amount of things to learn from: Character boards with in-depth guides written by top players, youtube/hub videos featuring metagame advancements between innovative players, a larger scene which meant more people to expand and test ideas on. It would SEEM like I would have too much to learn, even in 06 to get to where I would be in 04 proportionately. This is not true. I would, again, focus on one character and learn from my available resources. This means that I could learn SHL, Bombsoldier combos and maybe Shiz/Forward lasering. Everything else is matchup experience that is only metagame-based. People who want it will rise to the technical challenge, but the mental challenge remains proportionately the same for everyone.

When Brawl had been out 3 months, don't you think it would've still been tough to be successful with Snake just like it is now? There would have been less OVERALL techniques to learn, but you would have people's RELATIVE SKILL that would be JUST AS DIFFICULT to deal with then as it would be after learning more character tricks. Smash is about a battle between minds, it's a medium. If you play Brawl when you start out and get 3 stocked by M2K, then do you feel like you should have done better because you think you are "smarter" than him(such as amount of time spent at college or whatever)? No, you expect to get ***** because you haven't learned what is required in the current Brawl environment to be successful yet. Now, with dedication, you could be successful, but that is something that takes TIME and PRACTICE,

JUST

LIKE

MELEE.

Honestly, the tech skill difference between the two games is the ONLY john you have about time it takes to be good at a game, but I'd say that seeing your technical and mental progress move forward similarly is a feeling that Brawl cannot give you. Brawl has the mental aspect of improvement present though, so it still takes time to become adept at, but without technical things to "slow" one's growth it seems easier to catch up to the current metagame. It is still harder based on how long the game has been out, but again I would argue that the amount of time the game has been out doesn't greatly affect how long it takes to become skilled at it given the right conditions(dedication, time, appropriate people).


Now, to address your post......

"Majority of people"? No, anyone who has the right conditions(as I've mentioned twice) available to them can be good at Melee. I played with my 11-year-old brother 3.5 hours away from tournaments for 2 years to become good. Obviously, there's more to it than that, but it just goes to show you that if you want something badly enough then you can get it. Getting down on yourself is the exact reason why you can't do it. Buying into the rumors about Melee's difficulty is the exact reason why you don't want to do it. You CAN do it, and it won't be LOADS harder than Brawl, especially if you have already become skilled at Brawl. The big issue here is, do you want to put in the tech skill WORK and ADJUST to the other game's physics?

"Gf of Melee will be the same from Pound." False, unless my faith in the smash community is unfounded. Hbox and Mango both clawed their way to the top with an arguably high tier(read: NOT TOP) character, and I'm confident someone can grow the nads to challenge both of them(Armada may already be able to do it but keeps getting matchup gayed or something). Who's to say that another Marth, or Fox, or Falco, or Sheik even couldn't master their character as well and give those two people a run for their money? The game is about adaptation, and Hbox and Mango are not perfect. They are incredibly good, but not perfect. If you don't see potential in the game, then that's fine, but I'm sure it bothers you when people say "Brawl is all about MK and that B button." That's a ******** statement Brawl players must deal with, and it's entirely untrue. Melee players don't like to see Puff dittos anymore than Brawl players do(I think) but we are all working HARD to ensure that it stops happening so that finals can be more hyped up again. Please think about what you're saying.

"Stating the obvious?" First of all, Melee players exploit programming oversights, not "glitches." There's no reason to try to devalue what Melee players have accomplished technically by exploring the game. New people have no chance? How? How??? What makes you think someone that is learning can't learn faster than someone who has plateau'd/has figured out their character? In other words, newer players have to play catchup, but what else is new? It would be stupid if you played the game for like 3 months and could easily compete with M2K, Mango, and the like. Would you really feel like being good had ANY merit at all then? I hope not.


Keith, you're not a bad dude, but you buy into too many of those Melee rumors that keeps the community apart. I know that Brawl takes skill, and you should realize that Melee takes skill, but not an insane amount of it. I want you to take this post as instruction and insight from a player who has done at least reasonably well at both games, not as an insult or otherwise. Please reconsider your position on Melee. If you choose to leave your positions on Melee unchanged, than I ask you to leave your negative comments off of the boards. It is discouraging for those that want to venture out and at least see what Melee is like.

 

[stingers]

was that necessary

did it have to be that long

brilliance

 

[Dr Peepee]

I don't know, but I'm awake now.

Edit: eff yo sarcasm Stongers.

 

[null55]

lol get ****ed up.

 

[Moophobia]

Duwamn get ***** son.

 

[TheLastCacely]

I know this question isn't aimed at me but if its ok allow me to shoot my opinion on it. Getting good at something is something to be valued of course. However, when people get good and use that to become an elitist douchebag it takes away from the game and makes them and what they represent look bad. Take Kanye West for example, great musician but nobody likes his arrogance at all.

Finally, someone that knows where im coming from.

edit: PP, i didnt take the time to read what u said cause it was to long, im skimmed over it and i agree with you on some parts (i guess).
my whole first comment was simply saying that it would take forever to be good at melee if ur just starting out. at this point its like trying to make it to the NFL and have never played football. those who try to get serious at it know, by the time they can win tourneys out of state, there will be another smash game coming out. yall can disagree with what i say, but dont call my **** non sense u pricks. thats also one of the reason i dont go back to melee cause half of yall talk so much ****.

 

[I am Seth]

I totally get you keith.

If you guys read that get a life.

edit: 420

 

[Dr Peepee]

Finally, someone that knows where im coming from.

edit: PP, i didnt take the time to read what u said cause it was to long, im skimmed over it and i agree with you on some parts (i guess).
my whole first comment was simply saying that it would take forever to be good at melee if ur just starting out. at this point its like trying to make it to the NFL and have never played football. those who try to get serious at it know, by the time they can win tourneys out of state, there will be another smash game coming out. yall can disagree with what i say, but dont call my **** non sense u pricks. thats also one of the reason i dont go back to melee cause half of yall talk so much ****.

Want a tl;dr?

Don't talk crap about something if you aren't willing to give it a chance.

That should be good enough for you.

 

[Moophobia]

LOL Melee players talk so much ****? ... Right... You right ***** I forgot

Edit: Get ***** logically so I cop out with my response.

 

[Foxy]

I've done nothing but play Melee for 3 years

I doubt I'd have a life left anyways

 

[TheLastCacely]

@pp i dont know what tl; dr is and im not talking crap, in my first post i clearly said "this is not a flame towards melee." i dont mind melee im just feel that in the end its pointless. if u disagree u disagrre, im not going to harass u about it. its ur opinion, ur good at the game so OBVIOUSLY u know more about it then me.

@ moo cow- if u think melee players dont talk **** u obviously dont have a swf account. or been to the pound boards before the tounrey, or no any melee players at all. they live off bashing brawl players, but then when u get in there face about it person, they get amnesia. yea thats right, i will beat a lil tech nerds *** for some ****. Ask lucas, about brawl hate he gets orgasms off of flaming brawl. but i still love him. even on youtube vids, melee players will watch the entire vid and randomly say "brawl sucks or " **** brawl!" i mean really? is that necessary? its ****ed um imo.

 

[null55]

who cares. stop *****ing about people **** talking Brawl. what is the point.

and Melee players **** talk Brawl because in most of our opinions, Brawl is hilarious.



i don't wanna get in a Brawl vs. Melee debate, but by probability i think if you gave competitive Melee a chance over Brawl, you'd like it more. the difference between the two is like choosing to exercise over laying around. if you exercise, you don't have as much leisure time, but you get in shape, feel great about yourself, and get *****es. if you lay around, you have a nice relaxing time laying around, but the better you get at it the more you realize how much of a waste it is.


and don't get me wrong: i love Brawl. i have great memories with the game, and i have a lot of fun with it. i mean... i love smash period.

 

[Dr Peepee]

@pp i dont know what tl; dr is and im not talking crap, in my first post i clearly said "this is not a flame towards melee." i dont mind melee im just feel that in the end its pointless. if u disagree u disagrre, im not going to harass u about it. its ur opinion, ur good at the game so OBVIOUSLY u know more about it then me.

Keith, you can't say your post wasn't negative just because you said it wasn't. It WAS negative towards Melee.

I'm fine with you disagreeing, but if you don't take the time to at least READ my post that was gained through playing BOTH games, then can you say you have a fair outlook on them right now?

Obviously.....

 

[stingers]

shut up cam, lol
you're just adding flames to the fire
let keith and pp argue

 

[DJRome]

keith, think about it this way. what is the "point" of brawl? it's a game, meant to entertain. and if you're playing to compete, both games have their hard and easy parts.

as far as trash, idk why you think melee players are all in one category when it is quite obvious most melee players don't bash brawl players. and even more lol since brawl players are younger and more often kids.

 

[stingers]

heyy dj, you too
bro

 

[Foxy]

Yes, Melee players talk bad about Brawl. Because they deserve it and it's true

seriously, Brawl has been turned into a pretty decent competitive fighter by the COMMUNITY, but the game is a f*cking joke. Really. It's a disaster. Had it not been for all of the smashers progressing its metagame and scene, it would be a worse competitive fighter than the Shrek games. (maybe but probably not an exaggeration)

so yeah

all us brawl-haters know that it's a good competitive game thanks to smashers.

but we have the complete right to talk about how shizzy a game it is.

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'm pretty sure I'm about done, Stongers. Lol @ you telling them to stop though.

 

[DJRome]

lol, im just doing what keith was doing when me and pp were talking

 

[stingers]

yeahh i'm sure i'm a hypocrite or something right kevin

 

[TheLastCacely]

PP i read ur novel, i fully understand what ur talking about. i, again didnt mean for it to come off negative, if anyone was hurt cause of my comment sorry, i dont evere mean to start ****. yall can talk to me in person about it Saturday, cause im coming to that duke tourney. i figure if the rest of u punks are gonna play i maze well. but i, just going to use jiggs and camp the six minutes or seven minutes.... how ever long melee is

 

[Dr Peepee]

It's all good Keith.

Alright, Stongers.