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NC Billbro and Lord Karn present: License to Bill 2/21, Melee, Brawl, Brawl+

Malk

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
2,006
Location
Raleigh, NC
My two cents:

If I was barely able to beat Karn and Zero (and only 1-stocked Vilt in our match 2), then if you're all saying MK is insane in B+, the only logical explanation for those close games would be that I'm a complete trash player.

Normally I wouldn't argue with that point, but I do main MK is Brawl AND I have a lot of experience with B+ AND I'm pretty good at Melee. So... it's unlikely that I'm absolute trash.

And in that case, if MK was that broken, I think that I should have destroyed Zero and Karn rather than having close matches.

When talking about character traits and movesets, I completely support the ban. In theory, it makes perfect sense (apart from our lack of experience with possible broken things with other characters). However, in practice, it seems that he isn't good to the point of bannability.
Actually I'm more inclined to believe you are a complete trash player :]

Like, watching one of your finals matches with zero, you would run into forward smashes constantly. Lucario has NOTHING on metaknight, unless, well, metaknight is playing like trash. You won when you started spamming broken moves.

I still say give it another tournament though, btw
 

lord karn

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
4,324
Location
Raleigh, NC
Yoshi is still definitely my favorite. I'm trying to use his dair and fair more than I did at the tourney.

As for metaknight, I think more testing needs to be done, but he seemed unquestionably the best. Of course, something could come up that breaks some character. Instead of a ban, I think we should start looking into codes that balance the game, rather than change the physics (once tech speed and a couple other things are changed). Having a balanced high tier is really important, I think.
 

Foxy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
3,900
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
26,796
Location
Raleigh, NC
Suggest it in the topic, I don't think we should make our own changes. Sounds good though, it'd definitely help balance his recovery and make him a lot less of a pain.
 

Yeroc

Theory Coder
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 28, 2004
Messages
3,273
Location
In a world of my own devising
I'm all for thorough character testing, so normally I would advise against a preemptive ban. However, after talking to Bill today about how this is planned to be run, I'm almost of the opinion that a one-time ban, to hopefully diversify character selection and promote a wider range of functional testing, might be a good thing. If there are 40 people playing this, say, then there's no need to have 13 or so MKs to tell us "yep, he's still really good" when those people could all pick different characters and so we could learn more about more of them and hopefully find out things that will help us balance the lot in the future.

Thought I'd post this here for everyone else to think about as well.
 

Flamingo

Smash Lord
Joined
Dec 11, 2008
Messages
1,232
Location
Raleigh, NC. - In Dark Hart's Hart.
Hey, looks good...

HOLY ****

what if we make MK a major fastfaller?

and being light, it would be light comboing fox in melee

how does that sound? balance it like melee by making the best character also susceptible to more combos?
I second it just because it would be freaking hilarious to see a MK that looks like a DDD
 

Foxy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
3,900
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
I'm all for thorough character testing, so normally I would advise against a preemptive ban. However, after talking to Bill today about how this is planned to be run, I'm almost of the opinion that a one-time ban, to hopefully diversify character selection and promote a wider range of functional testing, might be a good thing. If there are 40 people playing this, say, then there's no need to have 13 or so MKs to tell us "yep, he's still really good" when those people could all pick different characters and so we could learn more about more of them and hopefully find out things that will help us balance the lot in the future.

Thought I'd post this here for everyone else to think about as well.
I agree with you.

If it seems like a lot of players will stick to MK, then we should ban him for the sake of knowledge. If only a couple (myself mostly) do, though, I don't think we need a ban. I only play him in later tournament rounds anyways, I stick to others (mostly Jiggs) in friendlies or early rounds.

oh i'm coming to this
duh
 

Foxy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
3,900
Location
Raleigh, North Carolina
It feels a heck of a lot more like Brawl - everything you know pretty much still applies.

Edit: Ooh, I like how you guys are running the Brawl+ pot and the free entrance. Good ideas! I think that's going to work out really well for getting people to try it.
 

Malk

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 23, 2006
Messages
2,006
Location
Raleigh, NC
I am putting my money in the pot for brawl+ out of pocket ($40) so everyone that can, please step up and put in a contribution. Even spare change increases the pot, so hold off on that extra double cheeseburger so you can add in an extra dollar. You may now begin to shower me with love and affection. This has been a Billbillbill post because my account is still banned.... please don't report bros anymore.
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
Whether B+ feels like Brawl is really a question of which version you use. It's especially apparent for the gravity modifications. Some characters feel slightly heavier, and some move faster. Of course, depending on the version, they may feel a lot heavier, and a lot faster.

Otherwise, it doesn't feel too different from Brawl.
 

Fritz~9

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 5, 2009
Messages
28
Brawl+ sounds good. I'll drop some bills in that pot. Anyone know how TL has changed in B+?

Also, I need a teammate for Brawl doubles...
 

ph00tbag

C(ϾᶘϿ)Ͻ
Joined
Mar 16, 2007
Messages
7,245
Location
NC
Brawl+ sounds good. I'll drop some bills in that pot. Anyone know how TL has changed in B+?

Also, I need a teammate for Brawl doubles...
TL is crazy in Brawl+. I was commenting to Bill and Alex that it seems like a lot of the characters that seemed like they'd be a lot better with hitstun really did turn out to be so. Toon Link can actually combo his back airs now, which is just wild. It makes him a lot more viable, especially since dthrow is essentially a guaranteed uair. Although I don't know if Alex and I could have DI'd it better. We did try, but either we weren't getting the timing right, or it's just that good.
 

Mohr

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
17
Location
New Orleans, LA
you guys wanna drank friday night before?
I should be down - I'm sure ACE will be as long as he's not working.

I might have something to do friday night though.. I kinda remember being busy on the 20th in the back of my head..
 

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
26,796
Location
Raleigh, NC
no not foxys codeset

i'm so used to brawlplussery kirby I'll have to go back to wario for foxy's codeset ;_;
 

Foxy

Smash Master
Joined
Jul 28, 2007
Messages
3,900
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Raleigh, North Carolina
i shall try out brawlplussery when i make a new sd (darn zero jacking my ****!)

it sounds like it COULD be good.

we'll see, i'll let you guys know what i think and what we should go with.

also, fastfalling mk ploxz
 

stingers

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Oct 21, 2006
Messages
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Raleigh, NC
yeah people do fall faster but it honestly works. I don't like Wario as much with it but Kirby/Dedede/MK are all a lot better.

MK is totally fucking broken though, I wouldn't mind at all banning him for this side tournament because it will degenerate into lots of MK, especially if Foxy is gonna be there XD.
 

lord karn

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2004
Messages
4,324
Location
Raleigh, NC
no not foxys codeset

i'm so used to brawlplussery kirby I'll have to go back to wario for foxy's codeset ;_;
It seemed like everyone was a fast faller. The new weights just made the game feel really weird and unnatural. Bill, James and I all disliked it a lot.
 
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