Namco Bandai: What's your opinion?

[Pyra]

At the risk of sounding repetitive, he's trying to do as much as possible to actually make a game that is fun for everyone. I kind of feel bad for the guy, with some people complaining about everything they can possibly nitpick at. Not that the criticism is wrong or anything. Hopefully he achieves that goal with the partnership with NB.

 

[MelMoe]

As long as it doesn't drown down to a typical party game instead of a fighting game then I fine with it. Sakurai wants "peace & love," heh he's such a hippie.

 

[---]

At the risk of sounding repetitive, he's trying to do as much as possible to actually make a game that is fun for everyone. I kind of feel bad for the guy, with some people complaining about everything they can possibly nitpick at. Not that the criticism is wrong or anything. Hopefully he achieves that goal with the partnership with NB.

Reading through all the interviews in the Source Directory makes you feel even worse. :3

Sakurai wants "peace & love," heh he's such a hippie.

This is sig worthy. lol

 

[Pyra]

Reading through all the interviews in the Source Directory makes you feel even worse. :3

The Trials and Tribulations of Masahiro Sakurai
A sad story of Mr. Sakurai's desire to please all, only to find out that there will always be at least one unsatisfied person.

This story will sweep the nation. Until the nation bans sweeping from tournaments.

 

[El Duderino]

Namco is there to help perfect the vision that he wasn't able to do to the full extent in Brawl

A funny thing happens when you work in a team. People make suggestions. Sometimes individuals even experiment on their own, possibly leading to unplanned changes. Sakurai can't dictate everything and is certainly not tied to the goals with previous installments. His vision for this game and the final outcome will be influenced by the people surrounding him, even more-so now that he's loosening the reins.

It's hard to say exactly what Sakurai's vision is now anyways. Calling Melee the sharpest yet least accessible game in the series. Choosing to enlist the experienced Tekken team instead of past contributing studios. Doing some damage control for Brawl and Kid Icarus' caveats. My guess is he wants all his bases covered this time which would require yet another change in direction.

 

[Johnknight1]

@ El Duderino
I think what Sakurai is trying to do is get new opinions, specifically from those with experience from the biggest non-sports fighting game series (Tekken).

 

[Pyra]

I don't think he's just getting their opinions. I believe they're the ones actually making the game while Sakurai watches over the progress to keep them in check.

On an unrelated note, what if, because Namco's developing the game, the characters (who speak) get more lines this time? I wouldn't mind it. I enjoy hearing characters talk for whatever reason.

As long as its kept to characters who normally talk. Besides luigi and wario. (I heard Charles Martinet talk in luigis voice for a couple sentences on youtube and it didn't sound right, even coming from his own voice actor.) EDIT: come to think of it, none of the mario franchise really talks much besides Peach (with her voice).

 

[El Duderino]

It's one of two possibilities, Namco's on board to help innovate or to purely be the muscle.

Given Namco, not Project Sora, built the prototype and want to "fully utilize (their) experience and knowledge in action/fighting game development", my guess is the former. It's actually the first tangible sign that Namco has responsibilities with and input over the fighting engine.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

With Namco on board, I know the game is going to look sharp graphically, especially if they go with a style similar to Soul Calibur 5. And I'm also willing to bet the game play will be great and hopefully balanced. I hope we get something of a teaser trailer soon, as I really wanna see how they handle all the systems and art direction.

 

[Metal Overlord]

For some reason, Ninka_kiwi, your post is making me excited for Smash 4 again <_<

 

[Red(SP)]

I just wanted to bring up that there should be no explanation as to why Namco Bandai doesn't release many Tales games on the west coast. If you look at past business efforts, the answer should be self explanatory. Nonetheless, Namco Bandai's influence might actually be interesting (seeing Harada and a few of everyone's take on the build for the game).

 

[The Good Doctor]

With Namco on board, I know the game is going to look sharp graphically, especially if they go with a style similar to Soul Calibur 5. And I'm also willing to bet the game play will be great and hopefully balanced. I hope we get something of a teaser trailer soon, as I really wanna see how they handle all the systems and art direction.

Which they shouldn't, Nintendo characters should look cartoony.

 

[Big-Cat]

I think the next Smash game will look more like Marvel than Soul Calibur which is still not saying much. I think the art style will be very colorful in comparison to Brawl and possibly less realistic oriented and more stylistic.

 

[Ninka_kiwi]

When I said style similar to SC5 I basically meant texture quality will be similar to it for characters (like how brawl has a detailed graphic style) I'm more excited to see how they do stage details.
I also really wanna see how Samus, Link, and other more realistic Nintendo characters look, if they were to go with the detail of the Soul Calibur series.

 

[Kink-Link5]

If it's going to look like Soul Calibur 5, all humanly proportioned humans will have the same face.

 

[Pyra]

If it's going to look like Soul Calibur 5, all humanly proportioned humans will have the same face.

That's the first thought I had when I read that.

Spoiler

Everyone will be the same character. Just in different costumes. You can pick between a man in a Bowser outfit, a man in a Pikachu outfit, a man in a Kirby outfit... it's all the same man.

 

[Metal Overlord]

Sakurai wants "peace & love," heh he's such a hippie.

More like he watched Trigun

 

[FlowinWater]

I don't get how people say Melee is hard to play, I played the original smash bros as a 10 year old and loved it spamming samus fully charged beam. Got melee and realized the depth of it as a 14 year old and just went to town with it. Melee is still played to this day, I don't want a Melee 2.0, I want a game that is easy to play, like all smash bros are, but has those little touches that make all the difference between a scrub and a seasoned player. Auto cancel for what? no reason to, takes no skill to auto cancel, L canceling ads the player input factor, if you miss a combo is your fault, if you miss that L cancel and you get grabbed is your fault.

The fighting engine in Melee was simple where all you had to tell someone was " move with this joy stick, attack with A, shoot lasers with B, on and hit this yellow stick in all directions to do a strong attack" and peeps had fun with it! i bet a lot of people on these boards started out playing that way. I joined the military 5 years ago, had an emulator in my laptop with 4 joysticks, played smash bros 64 on my laptop wih halo and call of duty guys and they had a blast. such a simple fighting engine where you don't have to mash 8 buttons and rotate a stick a quarter half at the same time to do a cool move. Simplicity is good, but depth is better. if simple wins all the time MLG will be hosting Mario PArty tournaments.

There are a lot of things that i would take from the N64 and melee and put it in the new one if i could. Melee had a smooth physics engine, where when you threw an item you can calculate your opponents fall speed and how fast you threw the item, depending on how strong your character was to hit your opponent as he is falling.

This floaty and slow crap Brawl introduced was not enjoyable to me, the game had no depth. You guys say that Melee favors fast fallers, yet you got characters like Peach, Jiggly, and Marth that do amazing at today's meta game. Melee isn't perfect, but is not a "i pick one character at high level and the game is in my favor". Melee has a good selection for high competitive play, Fox Falco Sheik Marth Peach Jiggly Falcon Ganon are the big ones. You also got characters like Samus, Pikachu, and doc that are busting onto the scene because the game had that much depth. you can try to balance the game out as much as you want, but the fact of the matter is no one is perfect and one character is going to be better then another.

Just want a good game, Melee was art, Most fun I ever had playing a game. played that game more then i have all other games combined! Is hard to please everybody, but if people are modding your game to make it more fun to play, shame on you as developers for failing to deliver a product that is "catered for everyone".


That is the end of my rant.

HOLLA

 

[ryuu seika]

I think the art style will be very colorful in comparison to Brawl

I do hope so. I didn't like the way Brawl took the visuals.
If we get a Yoshi's Story level of colour saturation then I'll be really happy indeed.

 

[SmashChu]

I think the next Smash game will look more like Marvel than Soul Calibur which is still not saying much. I think the art style will be very colorful in comparison to Brawl and possibly less realistic oriented and more stylistic.

Maybe, I could see it. It will take from the same idea to make sure everyone has a similar look and feel like Brawl has.

I don't get how people say Melee is hard to play

Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult.

Question answered.

 

[Red(SP)]

That answer leads itself to the same question.

 

[SmashChu]

That answer leads itself to the same question.

No, because context.

Melee fans..............might have trouble understanding this

If your context is wrong, you'll never understand.

 

[El Duderino]

Sakauri's a victum to context as well. As the creator... he might have a hard time understanding that Brawl is more frustrating to play. Tripping being just one of the factors.

Besides, lots of Melee fans wouldn't disagree with Sakauri. In particular difficulty getting around the most unforgiving deaths. That's why you see Project M making additions like this that are to everyone's benefit.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I decided to sticky this thread. Hopefully, the newer users won't overlook it.

 

[Red(SP)]

No, because context.

Melee fans..............might have trouble understanding this

If your context is wrong, you'll never understand.

That is true. Perhaps I should've mentioned that that context doesn't apply to me, but I disagree with the skill depth as portrayed in your response.

 

[FlowinWater]

Just cause the creator said that don't mean anything.

I was into smash before I even started playing it seriously and didn't find the game difficult whatsoever :/

HOLLA

 

[Dayzle]

I am reading an awful lot about people talking about experience. Okay note this. They are not making a game from scratch. They will have set of basic guild lins they will have to follow so it will keep the same feel as the last three games. Graphics and mechanics are a given, and something anybody would have had to follow through with. The real worry should not be their ability, but what they want to add to the game Bandai has a big contract with Nintendo and they are not going to want to mess it up. I don't mind them, as long as the game feels more like an expansion, and less like a total black sheep in a series we all happen to love.

 

[xX1337Sn1PeZaSsAsS1nXx]

I think they will do a great job.

 

[StriCNYN3]

Melee fans who played deep into the game without any problems might have trouble understanding this, but Melee was just too difficult.


Question answered.

Melee fans..............might have trouble understanding this

There are plenty of people (myself included) that have played Melee way before they even knew the existence of its depth and had no trouble playing the game normally. The only ones saying it's "too difficult" are the ones who were competitive-minded in the first place and couldn't keep up with the rest, not your average casual player. You're acting as if EVERYONE other than Melee vets deems Melee too technical and hardcore for the average smash bros fan to even enjoy the game for themselves, which is NOT the case at all.

And I don't know why you follow Sakurai's every word. Clearly he doesn't know what he's talking about either because first of all, he doesn't even explain how it's "too inaccessible for everyone". All he says in the article is "Oh, it was too hard making Melee and it's inaccessible to everyone because I said so." Lots of people, even casuals, would beg to differ, but you just blindly accept whatever he has to say about the subject because he's Sakurai. Second of all, without the AT's from each game in mind (which casuals wouldn't even know of or even care to practice to begin with), Melee is pretty much just as simple and accessible as SSB64 and Brawl are. They all pretty much handle the same. Sure, some mechanics are different from each iteration here and there like subtle changes with recovery and DI, but we're not talking about going from Forward ->A = attack to Double Quarter Circle Medium kick = single attack with 1 frame links like you and Sakurai are making it out to be. It doesn't get any simpler than the Smash bros formula, and all three were pretty easy enough to pick up and play almost instantaneously if you had any sense in gaming.

 

[Big-Cat]

And I don't know why you follow Sakurai's every word. Clearly he doesn't know what he's talking about either because first of all, he doesn't even explain how it's "too inaccessible for everyone". All he says in the article is "Oh, it was too hard making Melee and it's inaccessible to everyone because I said so." Lots of people, even casuals, would beg to differ, but you just blindly accept whatever he has to say about the subject because he's Sakurai. Second of all, without the AT's from each game in mind (which casuals wouldn't even know of or even care to practice to begin with), Melee is pretty much just as simple and accessible as SSB64 and Brawl are. They all pretty much handle the same. Sure, some mechanics are different from each iteration here and there like subtle changes with recovery and DI, but we're not talking about going from Forward ->A = attack to Double Quarter Circle Medium kick = single attack with 1 frame links like you and Sakurai are making it out to be. It doesn't get any simpler than the Smash bros formula, and all three were pretty easy enough to pick up and play almost instantaneously if you had any sense in gaming.

Every single thing in this quote is true. Chu blindly appeals to authority (just see my sig) and Sakurai really doesn't know what he's talking about.

 

[El Duderino]

SmashChu just keeps confusing himself for being in the majority, when the reality is no one that posts here is. The majority of Smash players would have no idea what exactly Sakuari is referring to when he says Melee is too difficult. Probably be even a little confused by the comment.

SmashChu is concerned about players of his skill level. Fans that are deep enough into the game that they'll read/chat about it online, but may not be completely interested or see the point in developing their skills. Sometimes if they're even further removed from the majority, going as far to complain about people who do. Melee and Brawl are not too difficult for anyone, they are just both victims to not having a fluid and transparent learning progression causing a wide gap in skill level.

 

[Johnknight1]

I think what Sakurai is honestly referring to is the amount of hours he put into Melee in most of his quotes. He put something like 100-120 hours a week on that game. That's 4-5 full 24 hour days worth of work A WEEK! I wouldn't want to do that either, or have anyone do that.

Also, I don't think any more than a few internet trolls dislike Melee because it has the strategic, technical, and gameplay depth moreso than Brawl. Heck, like I've stated before, nearly all of my casual smash bros. fan friends think Melee is superior to Brawl (although like all of us, they like that Brawl had more characters, stages, music, online, etc).

I think the big skill gap that he thinks Sakurai was trying to eliminate actually got easier to get over in Brawl, but it made players more dominate for no apparent reason other than knowledge of the games' cheap moves (chain throws, Meta Knight's OP status, Olimar's up smash, etc). With Melee, you had to put in a lot of hours to get wayyyyy better than casual players. I was a "casual player" for a long time with Melee (although I started L-cancelling in 2003 or so), and I put in a lot of hours to even begin to grasp the competitive depth. It was "easier" to get "good" at Brawl than Melee, because Brawl had minimal technical depth, which actually seems like the opposite of what Sakurai is trying to achieve with the game on the competitive level.

What Sakurai wants obviously is a game enjoyable for everyone, but on a competitive level, I think he wants a game with depth that requires much timing, patience, and understanding to get good at, not one based on cheap, boring, or stalling-based action like in Brawl.

 

[---]

No one gives a crap about 64. Melee is too hard. Brawl is slow/boring/garbage. The competitive scene is blind. The casual scene doesn't matter and will play whatever's put in front of them. Sakurai is his own audience.

Really hope that thanks to NB we get a game that's different from the last 3, based on fan responses and feedback, the Smash series is terrible.

 

[Ferio_Kun]

No one gives a crap about 64. Melee is too hard. Brawl is slow/boring/garbage. The competitive scene is blind. The casual scene doesn't matter and will play whatever's put in front of them. Sakurai is his own audience.

Really hope that thanks to NB we get a game that's different from the last 3, based on fan responses and feedback, the Smash series is terrible.

Agreed. Too many fan-boys out there that want only what they want.

I just hope for a game that's good. Both casually and competitively and don't really care what mechanics are used to get there.

I think Namco will help with this goal.

 

[Hypercat-Z]

They should make an option for turning the game casual or competitive, or what in the middle.
Like, say:
With help option on, when the match becomes really unbalanced (200% on a side and 2% on the other), items gets more frequent and powerful, and the ones in disvantage gets the strongest AT and pokemons.
With help option off, items, pokemon and AT stay costant the whole time.

 

[Kink-Link5]

Too many fan-boys out there that want only what they want

How dare they.

 

[Sarix]

I definitely think with Namco Bandai's track record with previous fighting games and heck even their fighting game elements in the Tales Series should give people quite a bit of faith in that they can do a good or great job.

Honestly the only other company I would be fine with working on Smash 4 would be Arc System Works who created Guilty Gear and Blazblue, they're very good at making diverse rosters with almost balanced (the low tiers are not completely screwed over at least) and almost being a catering service to the competitive scene.

 

[Red(SP)]

No one gives a crap about 64. Melee is too hard. Brawl is slow/boring/garbage. The competitive scene is blind. The casual scene doesn't matter and will play whatever's put in front of them. Sakurai is his own audience.

Really hope that thanks to NB we get a game that's different from the last 3, based on fan responses and feedback, the Smash series is terrible.

This is very obvious sarcasm, but you can't base your opinion on what you read without exposing yourself to that belief to some degree.

But seeing how you act prematurely about the basis of two views, I would find this very difficult for you to grasp.

 

[Starphoenix]

Just throwing this out there:

A portion of a Kingdom of Tales interview with Tales producer Makoto Yoshizumi (Google translated)

Kot : Now, let's talk about Yo****o Higuchi (producer of Tales of Vesperia)

Y : Yes, Higuchi-san ! Well, as you know, he is working on the next Smash Bros.. This is unfortunate for us and the Tales of series, but it has for some years.

Kot: A few years?

Y : Yes, you know, Sakurai (director of Smash Bros. series) is an acquaintance, and he came to me and said "Hey, lend me Higuchi-san, will you?" and I said "Okay" * Laughs *

Kot : It's a question many fans ask: since Higuchi-san working on the next Smash Bros., can we hope to see one or more characters of Tales in the next Smash Bros?

Y : It is a difficult question, maybe if we pray hard to put a character in Tales of Smash Bros., then it will happen! * Laughs * Anyway Higuchi-san really wants, but that will depend Sakurai-san. But for now, it is too early to tell.

Kot : I do not know if you know, but the Fire Emblem series has been published in the West and has become popular precisely because there were Marth and Roy in Super Smash Bros. Melee. Have one or more characters of Tales is surely a good way to promote the series.

Y : It's true. But we must also keep in mind that for a character to appear in Smash Bros. game, this character must come from a game released on a Nintendo. This is a prerequisite and all characters in the series does not meet. We could of course consider the characters in Tales of Symphonia and Tales of the Abyss, Lloyd, for example.

http://gonintendo.com/?mode=viewstory&id=182654

 

[---]

This is very obvious sarcasm, but you can't base your opinion on what you read without exposing yourself to that belief to some degree.

But seeing how you act prematurely about the basis of two views, I would find this very difficult for you to grasp.

Meh, I posted that after getting annoyed by shockwaves of the off-topic Everyone vs SmashChu/Melee vs Brawl flame wars that were going on on multiple threads such as this. It's not ment to be taken seriously.


As for my NB opinion, it's tough to say what exactly they'll do besides giving Sakurai a predetermed team to work with, and hopefully speeding up the process of development and helping with the balance Sakurai said he was working to improve on even more in previous interviews.

The NB influence that most everyone seems to be after is tough to say anything about, as it seems multiple NB developers, each with their own style, are getting involved and all have said that Sakurai's word is law. Tough to say anything about 3rd parties either with no Pac-Man mentions, and multiple Tekken, Soul, and Tales mentions. Though personally I don't want any NB character.