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No more broken than Diddy throwing a banana into your face for a hoo-hah at any percent, or turning his command grab into an attack at the press of a button. Or Sheik being able to camp most of the cast with needles. Or what Rosalina can do with Luma without even touching the B button. Or how Sonic is fast enough to make a joke out of the neutral game.
Yea you can DI out of hoo hahs at different percentages,you can also powershield bananas,and needles. You can also pivot grab sonics are punish them with out of shield options those are all pretty manageable. Imagine making a read that you could kill somebody at 40% but the worse could happen is that you might be put off stage thats ridiculous. I'm not saying all customs are broken but allowing only some is gonna make a slippery slope
Link's Gale Boomerang and Mario's F.L.U.D.D. among other moves have wind boxes. Wario's Fart and Jigglypuff's Rest, again among other moves, give ridiculously early kill options. A lot of moves like Sonic's Spin Dash and Duck Hunt's Can allow for some pretty good stalling.
LOL Ok the DKwill thing was only hypothetical and i know CEO arent using customs it was just an example. But Yea I know why Halberd,Delfino and castle siege are legal(Temporary walk offs,Telegraphed/non threatening hazards) Jiggly puffs rest is hard to execute and is EASILY punishable, same with warios fart. Links Boomerang only has a returning winbox and albeit not very strong, Marios fludd isn't very strong either, Duck hunt LOL bad example and sonics spin dash isnt hard to deal with at all. Lol I dont know why people are getting so mad about something that honestly doesnt change much about the meta
And Just to clarify I personally don't think Dks customs are too op or anything I just think some customs are silly but if we start banning random customs its gonna set a bad precedent and create a slipper slope in general
Yeah neither are most of the customs. For example, Pikachu Heavy Skull Bash has a lot of ending lag, gets weaker the farther it goes, nerfs Pikachu's recovery, and is only strong if pikachu is standing still.
A point-blank, very punishable move on a fragile speedster that you basically need a hard read to land is not inherently broken. Wait until we see it seriously shifting the metagame, then we can call it broken. And of course, I'm not advocating those. Mario Circuit (WiiU), on the other hand, you can find me advocating.
Yeah I would say ADHD and I are around the same skill level, He beat me 2-0 at Collision, I beat him 2-0 at KTAR XI and KTAR XIIADHD beat Jtails in Diddy Dittos at Collision XI. They are players who are around the same skill level with no noticeable gap.
We definitely can ban customs, but I think @Jtails said it best here
We can't ban customs that just look OP, or beat people based off their initial impressions. We need to ban them specifically if they ruin or over centralize the game. Sure there are some good custom moves, but that's the point. If all the custom moves were worse than default there'd be no point in using them. The best part about customs is figuring out which moveset is going to be best in which matchups.
Also, if we need to make our ruleset back to 3 stock because kill are happening earlier, we should definitely do it. We can't change EVO's stock and time count, but we could change other tournaments rulesets.
Yea you can powershield Heavy Skullbash, roll/airdodge the Storm Punch, jump over Timber Counter, Shield grab the Super Hoop, those are all pretty much manageable. Imagine making a read that you could kill somebody at 14% with a reverse warlock punch but the worst that could happen is that you break their shield anyway because apparently we're not considering the ability to dodge, thats ridiculous. I'm not saying all defaults are broken but only allowing some is gonna make a slippery slope.
I'm fairly sure (and am having deja-vu in saying it for the billionth time), that wind boxes have zero effect while shielding. You don't move an inch. Gust bellows does nothing.
I would prefer if the Smash community did not operate on Smogon-esque politics, please. Unless something is objectively broken, like having the Wii U freeze mid match, I do not agree with the notion of banning specific aspects of the game for the idealistic notion of balance.
We're already doing that with stage bans/unbans (depending how you look at it) and allowing customs. We're already banning and allowing things based on perceived balance and fun factor alone.
With stages it is mandatory. There are a limited number of conceivably legal stages out of the ones available, so we need to pick and choose, leading to politics on rules. However, we base our decisions on more objective lines usually. We don't ban 75 M because it isn't fun or "desirable", to quote Smogon. That's just an added benefit to the policy making. We ban 75 M because it inevitably results in circle camping, and other imbalanced tactics that could otherwise ruin a tournament players chances for success in an unreasonable manner.
At least someone gets what Im trying to say lol
Not true. Dapuffster lost to Jtails and Dabuz at KTAR (both who knew what to do). Also at the World Online Tournament he lost to Zero who has not fought a Brawler before.
Jtails
#HBC | Bunzy
Jigglymaster
-6WX-
ADHD
False
Tweek
0-3'd by all 3 of them none the less (Zero in GF)
Any player who overrelies on their one move will still probably lose to players of similar skill. Heck, even Diddy does things besides Hoohah.
Hey look, a perfect time to advertise!
We're already micromanaging the game by adding stages on top of FD, an extra minute to the timer, and ignoring Sudden Death. And we even have the CMP firmly deciding what customs we use at EVO. We're already there, mate.
If you can't read properly, I'm not going to repeat myself.
Because we totally needed any other stage then FD. BF and SV may very well be further unbalancing the game, since they are the favored stages of Diddy and Shiek and the like. "We're not trying to balance the game ourselves blah blah blah..." But that's exactly what's happening with these stages and customs. Having customs on is just like turning on giant mode to artificially make stages smaller.
You're honestly hilarious.
You mean to say BF and SV weren't added because they were desirable? That stages like Skyloft aren't banned under the presumption that there's too many transforming stages?
You take things out of context and make **** up about why we do stuff as a means to retort arguments. You didn't even understand the main point I made. It's like arguing with a christian about God. Of course I'm not trying.
Explain how a community reshaping a game for perceived benefit is different from a community reshaping a game for perceived benefit.
DavemanCozy
summed it up nicely. The last thing we need is another schism in our community, especially when it seems to be a lack of communication, rather than direct malice, that's causing these issues.
Small scale tournaments shouldn't be forming your opinions on customs. Just because the 20-30 people at your local tournament come to a conclusion that something is or isn't broken doesnt mean it's even close to correct.
Omg imagine bowsers fsmash
Wait, when did we move from "removing things from the game" to "adding things to the game"? You're looking at this completely backwards, sort of like saying "Because we totally needed any other character than Diddy Kong". There are stages in this game, and ideally, we'd use all of them. We can't do that, because some of them are patently broken. Stages like Temple Hyrule and 75m lower the skill ceiling of the game to the point where the question of "who is the better player" (you know, the whole point of competitive play) is pointless and/or trivial. So we limit the stagelist by ditching stages that significantly come into conflict with that question. We never "added" BF or SV to the stagelist; we simply didn't remove them.
At first the competitive Smash community was seen as taking things away, namely stage and item bans. Now people think they're adding a bunch of junk with Customs and non-Omega stages.
If by "official ruleset" you're referring to For Glory, then I hardly think that qualifies. It's a cheap and cheerful means of allowing players to engage in some semblance of a competitive environment without having to work out the complexities of an actual tournament setting. It's the budget competitive mode, and while I appreciate its existence, it's clear that it was included as a mode of secondary priority after the main game.
