My one big dissapointment

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I normally don’t post about my thoughts on Directs nor do I make threads but this past Direct was a huge dissapointment for me. Not cause of the character reveals or game modes or what not.

The news that trophies have been canned in exchange for stickers Spirits left me very very disappointed. Trophies have always been one of my most favorite things about Smash and collecting them was one of the reasons why I continued to play it years later. Not only seeing the 3D renders but also reading about the lore of the character or the series.

The absence of trophies was the equivalent of canning my main. I am sad to think about the future of Trophies in later Smash games. I was even speculating and getting excited about seeing which trophies will come in.

I’m not a Debbie downer but this announcement has actually left me a bit bitter and a little despondent on Ultimate. Still love it and the roster but the absence of trophies was a huge blow to my enthusiasm. Hopefully these Spirits justify not putting in trophies.

Anyone else feel this way?

 

[Blue7113]

Yeah...although it wasn’t the biggest disappointment for me in the direct, it was still sad to see them go especially after growing up reading each and every one as a kid

 

[Mogisthelioma]

It is a bit....odd. To see a big icon of Smash get replaced all of a sudden.

 

[Room100]

It seems like because they're honing in on the old dreamy toy aesthetic from 64 they moved away from trophies which only started sticking in Smash when they came in during Melee. I agree though, disappointing especially considering they literally just use PNGs off the internet for the Spirits.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

disappointing especially considering they literally just use PNGs off the internet for the Spirits.

I'm pretty sure those images were already official artwork/trophies/screenshots/etc. that were uploaded to the internet. But it's not a super big issue. Sakurai said that trophies took a while to develop, especially since Lyn got Smash 4 delayed because her trophy was "sexually provocative." If they had trophies instead of spirits, I can imagine waiting at least another 6 months, or almost a year, before the release.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

I will miss them, I really will, but the amount of work it probably took compared to the amount of time people would actually view them, and appreciate them, probably wasn’t worth it. I’ll miss ‘em but I wholly understand.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Do you know how hard it can be to get every trophy in Melee, Brawl, and Smash 3DS / Wii U? In Melee, you had to get every single bonus to acquire the Diskun trophy. In Brawl, you had to complete Boss Battles on Intense difficulty to get Galleom's tank form trophy, and that can't be avoided if you don't own the PAL version of Brawl.

And of course, there's Smash Wii U's Deathborn trophy, where you have to clear the True All-Star mode as Captain Falcon on Normal difficulty, without healing between rounds.

On an additional note, the removal of trophies does reduce development time, since you don't have to mess around with making several trophy models.

 

[GeflGabe]

I'm hoping we can still read lore and descriptions for every spirit. I really like what they're essentially going for though, of us being able to use the many idols we get. I personally really enjoyed equipment when playing casually, and I hope the spirit's stats are consistent enough to maybe be a side event at some locals, one of these days. Although, I agree completely with the 3D renders part, now that you mention it.

 

[Tollhouse]

It must have been the price to get all the veterans back. I can understand how much work is put into the trophies for that reasoning. They put so much into it but at the end of the day they are extras and have nothing to do with the gameplay itself. I will miss them though

 

[Room100]

I'm pretty sure those images were already official artwork/trophies/screenshots/etc. that were uploaded to the internet. But it's not a super big issue. Sakurai said that trophies took a while to develop, especially since Lyn got Smash 4 delayed because her trophy was "sexually provocative." If they had trophies instead of spirits, I can imagine waiting at least another 6 months, or almost a year, before the release.

They're all definitely official art, I mainly just find it kinda humorous that it's in no way custom made for Smash. I do completely agree that I'm sure trophies took WAY too much time away from the core game, so even though I'll miss them it's for the greater good.

 

[staindgrey]

I need to see Spirits in action before I make any judgment. I'm actually quite excited about Spirits, and I'm equally excited about the possibilities of who I'll find now that the effort of rendering full 3D models for every single one is no longer an issue.

That said, trophies will be missed. And if Spirits turns out to suck, then I'll definitely be disappointed trophies aren't a thing.

 

[Sprintle]

I'm a little disappointed that they're gone, but from a development perspective, I get it. With the Switch, you really have to consider the size of the cartridge. This game is packed to the brim with content, and I would wager that one of the reasons trophies were cut was because the models for them just took up too much space. Sakurai himself said they were difficult to develop.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

I'm really gonna miss trophies. I liked reading the bios for each character, and I did take some of them into the gallery to take pictures.

Honestly, it would all be perfectly fine for me if the Spirits also included bios for each of the characters.

 

[Sprintle]

Honestly, it would all be perfectly fine for me if the Spirits also included bios for each of the characters.

This is my hope as well. Reading the descriptions for each of the trophies is one of my favorite parts of Smash, so I really hope they at least bring that for spirits.

 

[nirvanafan]

Yeah this and not having any platforming levels to fight our way through (although i guess wii u had none as well) are features i will miss.

 

[soviet prince]

why could they just not import the already made ones.

 

[Tempest]

It honestly feels like its 2 steps forward and one step back with Smash Bros sometimes. I don't understand sakurai's logic. He could have easily imported the trophies already developed, + add in extra. Instead he works on a whole new mode being spirits mode and tries to tie it in with the lore of the game.

I also loved to just sometimes sit back and read the lore of trophies. It was just good to take a break, relax and enjoy reading about the elements of the franchises in smash. Now it's just some sticker book similar to brawl that slaps pictures together instead of providing information which could help attract new fans to those franchises.

The trophy system was a very good was to make new players familiar with the series in smash, with spirits mode I'm not so sure it will have the same effect.

 

[Weeman]

I normally don’t post about my thoughts on Directs nor do I make threads but this past Direct was a huge dissapointment for me. Not cause of the character reveals or game modes or what not.

The news that trophies have been canned in exchange for stickers Spirits left me very very disappointed. Trophies have always been one of my most favorite things about Smash and collecting them was one of the reasons why I continued to play it years later. Not only seeing the 3D renders but also reading about the lore of the character or the series.

The absence of trophies was the equivalent of canning my main. I am sad to think about the future of Trophies in later Smash games. I was even speculating and getting excited about seeing which trophies will come in.

I’m not a Debbie downer but this announcement has actually left me a bit bitter and a little despondent on Ultimate. Still love it and the roster but the absence of trophies was a huge blow to my enthusiasm. Hopefully these Spirits justify not putting in trophies.

Anyone else feel this way?

From an aesthetic and thematic standpoint losing trophies is a pretty big blow to the series, i agree on that.
However, considering the purpose trophies had on the previous games, i think it makes sense they wouldn't want to continue making them the same way.
They had 2 purposes in my eyes: Cool collectible and a sort of piece in a video game museum.

The video game museum part, which is bound to keep getting expanded each game, is hard to keep up with because of how many models they have to get in order to make the trophies. This reached a point in smash 4 where almost all trophies had to be ripped from other game's models, a far cry from the handmade feel they had in Melee or even Brawl to an extent.
This also limited just who would get made into trophies, since they're probably limited to either Nintendo console games of decent recency or retro enough games to make simple recreations of their sprites. If trophies had remained the same, i doubt we would've been able to get Rareware style DKC models or MGSV's Miller for instance.
Spirits lifts these restrictions while also freeing up development time immensely.
EDIT: This is assuming spirits have some kind of description like trophies used to, if they don't, well ****.

As a cool collectible however, there's no comparison, trophies are just cool.
These are literaly flying JPGs in bubbles that you can... feed, for some reason.
I think the inclusion of Spirits is smart, but i would've loved if they kept trophies around, but maybe limit them to playable characters, assist trophies, bosses and maybe like, stages lol.
Make them rarer so it feels nice to get them, kinda like how CDs were in brawl.

 

[SvartWolf]

Yeah this and not having any platforming levels to fight our way through (although i guess wii u had none as well) are features i will miss.

Wiiu had the master fortress... but yeah, wiiu having nearly 0 platformings levels was my biggest issue with that game. Still world of light might hold some surprise, but for now i will assume that ultimate is the first smash game withouth any plataforming content. (smash 64 had break the targets)...

Sigh.. I miss break the targets a lot

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

If the Spirits have bios, then nothing of value was lost in my opinion. Those bios are the reason why I decided to seek out the origins of these characters after having my fill of Melee. When looking at a Spirit, you can see "Details" by pressing X. I don't think we've seen what that screen looks like, so the jury is still out on whether bios for them are in.

Then again, we live in an age where you can google the names of these characters and figure out all you need to know. So maybe I'm making a big deal out of it. Regardless, the switch from 3D Models to 2D images is fine with me. Spend that development time on something else.

 

[FirestormNeos]

An iconic collectable that I honestly never cared much for got replaced for a collectable I'm probably not going to care about either?

I feel for your loss but I have my thoughts.

 

[MrGameguycolor]

Kind of a bummer.


But I'll live with it.

 

[EricTheGamerman]

I think Spirits was pretty horribly rolled out all and all. He kind of failed to explain it properly, and even more strikingly, failed to sale me on it as the premiere mode of the game. All I saw was a bunch of glorified Event Matches and an occasional boss encounter being propped as something new. I'm happy bosses are back, and that Event Matches are back with lots of "levels" in a sense. But those "levels" are really just fights with modifiers from what I've seen. That doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in me.

He spent so long on the mode, and I just don't feel like I know how much I'm going to like it. I love the CGI piece he showed off (Though apparently it's the only one), the idea of bosses returning, and the map looked interesting and unique. But it still didn't feel complete to me. I'll just have to play the mode to actually get to know what I'm dealing with and if I like it.

And that's the disappointment. This big of a mode should have been an easy sell, but it just wasn't sold at all.

 

[Glaciacott]

This is exactly how I feel.

Everyone out there assumes that I'm sour on the direct because "everyone got their hopes high from the grinch leak", but characters are not the problem for me.
Removing trophies and making spirits such a gacha, mobile-game thing for me completely kills any hopes of single player for me. And when Nintendo online isn't that great and I don't know that many people irl who want to play this game as much as I do... No trophies means that after characters are unlocked there's not much I can play outside of fighting CPUs I guess.
And then even the spirits "events" or matches or w.e.... they look like filler. A fight where I fight CPUs who are all bullet bills or spamming items or spamming non-sense... that stuff is fun when it's with people... with the CPU it's just annoying. The idea that I have to go through that stuff to get to bosses and unlocking characters already feels like a drag.

 

[TheLightningYu]

Well i'm different on this. Mobile Games (and the Spirit sure does remind at these - but it also reminds me bit of the Persona Series) aren't, in my Opinion, per se bad. They have sometimes really cool concepts. The Issue which i face at them are two Aspects: First they often attend to have an cash-grab attitude - which focus more on making money instead of enjoying the Game. Secondly, especially with this Concept of "gathering" Spirits, they often don't interwind enough with the Core-Gameplay or let's say atleast offer an good Core-Gameplay. That's why i like to see a Game like Super Smash Bros, how it could take an Mobile-Game Concept and make something good out of it, and from what we've seen so far it seems it will be like that. Even further i would argue it even fits SSBU perfectly due SSBU will be released on Switch, which is is not only a console, but also an handheld so as well a Game which is made with the "on-go" concept on the Mind and i find it pretty fitting if i want to do something in Bed / Bus, but don't might have the time to do an Fight, i still can manage my Spirit teams and such.

People shouldn't misunderstand me on this Case, i don't say i won't miss Trophies as well, but if i consider how much Content and Work already is putted in, how much work trophies would need, plus that unlike Trophies which are more like an prestige Gimmick with lore, an Concept which also works together hand in hand with the Core-Gameplay... than i prefer they route they've gone now and can accept that they canned the trophies. (And truthfully - even while Trophies were amazingly designed, i don't find them supreriour than well-made Artworks... only different) The only thing which i really wish for Spiritis that they also add lore to it, like trophies... but we will see.

EricTheGamerman
I don't know, i don't find they explained that part bad. It's simply put an collecting Aspect with 2D Artworks, which also gives your Characters Stats, (Passive) Talents/Skills and such, and you have influence in them. Which me bothered more is the Explanation of the Adventure-Mode. I mean well, it looked cool true, i love the Mapdesign and i know i will have with it, but we don't know how that and the spirits really work together...

 

[FirestormNeos]

I love the CGI piece he showed off (Though apparently it's the only one)

There is?

I'd be kinda okay with that, considering what ended up happening with Subspace Emissary's CGI.

I would've liked CGI cutscenes for before and after the final boss, though. Hopefully his entrance and death animation will have to make up for it.

 

[Glaciacott]

While it's true gacha and mobile game mechanics can be implemented correctly, I don't think it fits that well with this game. Like, if you told me that Spirits was a mobile game, I'd be super down.

But if it's part of the console game experience, I would prefer single-player content that takes the game mechanics and does something with them that can feel rewarding. I don't want to spend time leveling up, training, thinking of rock-paper-scissor triangle setups, having skill trees, and overall collecting random little things that ultimately aren't really doing anything in improving my performance or skill.
To me games are about learning and getting better, ESPECIALLY competitive multiplayer games. If the single player isn't promoting that purpose, then what's the point. It's not even fun for me when it's all just random gacha pulls and spending hours in menus to optimize a build. If I wanted that I would play a JRPG or a strategy game.

 

[osby]

I think we have Spirits because we can't have trophies. As Sakurai said, they are a time sink for the modelling team.

If it's any consolation, Spirits seems to have trivia attached to them, just like trophies.

 

[TheLightningYu]

To me games are about learning and getting better, ESPECIALLY competitive multiplayer games. If the single player isn't promoting that purpose, then what's the point

Well, i learned that in other Games as well, but the Crowd who overly enjoy an good Singleplayer isn't the same Group of People who enjoy the Multiplayer... to force this competitive aspect way much down to the folks who want an longlivety in single player can hurt more than help - and the multiplayer-crowd won't stop by anyway after the first playthrough... so i find it an better solution to offer both crowds an different experience. (even more due you never can promote the MP in SP anyway and in my experience people often tend to learn bad habits from them instead really helping to promote it for competitive MP), as long SPirits won't have any Influence in the competitive Multiplayer...

Also another thing i have to point out, even while SSB can be played competitively - in it's core it is still an Fun Beat'em'up for the whole Family...(and not something like tekken / streetfighter) i know that's something which the competitive crowd don't want that to accept, but like Mario Kart and any other Party Game the huge majority of Players are casuals / families who only want to play for fun... to give them extra sugar for longlivety is nothing bad / wrong...

But i said what i wanted to say - so for me the topic is finished anyway. For me the Spirits (plus Campaign) is one of the things which surprised me, and i can't wait for(which is surprising due i'm not the biggest fan of subraum in Brawl...) it to enjoy it...

 

[osby]

While it's true gacha and mobile game mechanics can be implemented correctly, I don't think it fits that well with this game. Like, if you told me that Spirits was a mobile game, I'd be super down.

But if it's part of the console game experience, I would prefer single-player content that takes the game mechanics and does something with them that can feel rewarding. I don't want to spend time leveling up, training, thinking of rock-paper-scissor triangle setups, having skill trees, and overall collecting random little things that ultimately aren't really doing anything in improving my performance or skill.
To me games are about learning and getting better, ESPECIALLY competitive multiplayer games. If the single player isn't promoting that purpose, then what's the point. It's not even fun for me when it's all just random gacha pulls and spending hours in menus to optimize a build. If I wanted that I would play a JRPG or a strategy game.

It's purpose is having fun, since it's, you know, a game.

 

[Radical Bones]

Looking at it as a business decision, it would be one less team to employ resulting in saving of 2 years worth of salary.

The time to make the game wouldn't increase, the team just gets smaller.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

You know, I can probably think of something that can feel highly disappointing. It's the fact that custom specials are restricted to Miis now.

A majority of them in Smash 3DS / Wii U simply reused the default specials' animations, so that would've made setting them up less tedious.

 

[Kuragari]

While it sucks trophies were removed, I'll be honest. I only ever looked at them once really and then never did again.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

While it sucks trophies were removed, I'll be honest. I only ever looked at them once really and then never did again.

And when you think it over, trophy models can be memory hogs. Reusing 2D artworks is less time consuming, and takes up less space as well.

 

[osby]

And when you think it over, trophy models can be memory hogs. Reusing 2D artworks is less time consuming, and takes up less space as well.

Also with this, you can add more characters.

 

[King Sonnn DeDeDoo]

I think we have Spirits because we can't have trophies. As Sakurai said, they are a time sink for the modelling team.

If it's any consolation, Spirits seems to have trivia attached to them, just like trophies.

Is there any confirmation of the trivia part? I‘m onboard for the mechanical parts of Spirits but I’d be disappointed if we didn’t have character bios for Spirits like trophies did.

 

[osby]

Is there any confirmation of the trivia part? I‘m onboard for the mechanical parts of Spirits but I’d be disappointed if we didn’t have character bios for Spirits like trophies did.

I think we had but I need to watch that part again. Though, I'm sure they are shorter this time, if they're in at all.

 

[Grevmak]

Idk who said it, but there's a quote somewhere out there vaguely saying "No matter how small, if you put something into your game, some people will love this part of it more than anything else".

It's always sad to see established features leave a successor, but maybe we'll get some trivia for Spirits? That'd be neat. Even if not, putting a Gacha game in Smash Ultimate didn't sound all that great to me at first, but the World of Light mode combined with all the features of it sounds like it could be quite fun,

Again, not disrespecting your opinion at all, yet I do not mind Trophies being gone in light of a simpler-to-model but somewhat in-depth gameplay mode. Spirits seems to be a customizable Event-style mode, and being able to spend coins for music sounds pretty fun, too.

I for one kinda miss Break the Targets, Race To The Finish and Board The Platforms. I know a lot of people don't care that much about 'em, so I can see why they were cut, but they were incredibly fun to me. Would've loved to see a Mario-maker-esque style of levelmaking and sharing for them, but that would've been a crazy amount of work for a niche gamemode so...Eh, wishful thinking.

 

[Diem]

This is my hope as well. Reading the descriptions for each of the trophies is one of my favorite parts of Smash, so I really hope they at least bring that for spirits.

It probably takes days for each trophy to be modeled, especially in HD.

It'd take a few minutes to write a short bio for each if you knew what you were writing about, or took some time to even just glance through the wiki page of whatever character. Just assign a handful of people to do that for a few months, give it all one pass for review and revision, and then you'd have everything. It's a lot of work, but it's more doable than thousands of HD, 3D models.

So here's hoping we get some descriptions still.

 

[Necro'lic]

Again, not disrespecting your opinion at all, yet I do not mind Trophies being gone in light of a simpler-to-model but somewhat in-depth gameplay mode. Spirits seems to be a customizable Event-style mode, and being able to spend coins for music sounds pretty fun, too.

I just thought of something. Spirits mode, discounting the World of Light adventure mode, basically is a fully customizable Event mode. You know what would be amazing? If we could customize a Spirits "mission" and share it with people online. Think of all the possibilities!