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My first tournament is coming up!

:034:

Smash Hero
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Link to the thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=196385

So, yeah, my very first tournament is coming up. I'm excited, really excited. I will be using Ganondorf, but I won't be going solo-Ganon. I want my first tourney to be a rich experience, so I wanna get as far as I can. I'll also use Wolf and DK, but my Ganondorf will definitely not be unseen.

Now, I'd like some tips from you regular tourney-goers. About attitude, being nervous, just anything you can think of. Throw all the info you have at me! All of it!


PS: Gotta watch out for the FD Combo!

FD combo = Flying Flame Choke -> Flame Choke -> Full Hop Dair.
 

Tenki

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Pressure sucks. Win the crowd. It may relieve pressure lol.
 

The Milk Monster

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Using Ganon will be a nice surprise factor.
If you are worried you'll lose, go DK, he's a beast.
Be careful with Wolf.
With attitude, after your matches, tell them good game and shake their hands, regardless if you win or not.
Like Tenki said, win the crowd, it will get a lot of stress and fright off you.
Try to play friendlies with lots of people, make friends, show them you're true POWAAAA.
The pressure was on me when I hosted a tourney, no lie, but I kept a sense of humor, a smile when I lost, talked to the good players, made friends, and now I'm hosting bi weeklies with great players attending each time.
The part I should emphasize the most is the friendlies. Keep a sense of humor, crack jokes, have fun, don't john, and that good game at the end of each match makes a difference.
 

hyperstation

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As long as you're using Ganon and ****** with him, the crowd will be cheering for you, and that will upset your opponent. I remember in my last tournament I was up against a high level NYC snake and was going blow for blow with him. Happened again vs a high level Diddy and I won. I think people are generally shocked when Ganon even gives them a run for their money. I don't win often, but that hardly matters because it doesn't take much to change the minds of the crowd about Ganon. If you get them to high percentage third stock and lose by a gimped recovery or something, you're still going to be a hero. The crowd effing LOVES seeing a good ganon play, and I'm sure if you toss a FoG in there for good measure and connect with it, people will go nuts. It's funny because I don't go to too many tournys here, but everyone who I've played remembers me and my DAD Ganon. No one else effs with him at competitive levels, you know?

Good luck, homie. Pound some a$$.
 

The Milk Monster

Smash Champion
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Oh yeah dude, I agree with Dad, a good Ganon will turn some heads.
I was watching a Ganon ditto at a couple of tourneys ago I hosted, and I saw my buddy do a 0% to death combo with Ganon.
It went like, run a, up air, over air, then at the edge he down aired him, jumped off, footstooled him, and recovered.
It was magical.
 

Shadow Nataku

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I'd just be echoing others when I say do break out your Ganon at every possible opportunity, if you can actually win a match with him it'll make the crowd happy. It doesn't matter what you play, seeing a dark horse perform well on a competitive level brings excitement to the competition and it'll relieve the stress.

So just keep a cool head and do the Ganon players proud.
 

Blad01

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On a more serious note, i recommend you to be relaxed, and focused on your opponent. Try to forget the possible pressure ;)
 

hyperstation

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It should also be mentioned: play extraordinarily patiently. When stress builds up during a match, you might feel pressure to land a hit. More importantly, look at your opponent's character and be sure NOT to get hit. This will work first to get you accustomed to their spacing game/approaches, but more importantly, it will get the controller in your hands, so to speak. Instinct will kick in when you see the first opening to punish and attack, and from there you can start working it. At my first 2 tournaments in Melee, I got my sh*t served back to me so fast it was an embarrassment, and I now know it was mostly because I was rushing my game and forgot to sit back, watch, and punish when you can. There's no rush. Most tourny rules will be 3 stock, 7 minutes; use that full 7 minutes if you need them.
 

PK-ow!

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hyperstation I have a question, as someone who also will be going to his first tourney soon - and contrary to what my sig may project, I would be planning to rep Ganon for quite a portion of this time* (indeed, his prior chance of being chosen is almost a third; he's basically a secondary to me):

Sometimes, it's not that I become impatient, but it's like I forget my fundamentals in the middle of a match. I'll have done this or that thing in the early game, staked out an advantage with good fightin' inbetween, but then the opponent comes down, does nothing very different from before, and I'm just thinking "buh? What do I do?" When he gives an opening, I don't have a thought as to what to do about that. When I can chase. . . I don't. About the only thing I consistently do is go for the gimp kills (since I really took "edgeguard like your life depends on it" to heart). This lasts for the midrange of the fight, before I snap out of it, and happens about 7-8% of the time.

Any thoughts on what this is, and a way to work around it at a tourney in real time?


*After the tourney, when I see what my practice has added up to, I think I'll switch around my character priorities. I'm just very unsatisfied with some of them and don't think they're going anywhere, so I'll consolidate with the ones I like based on how comfortably I *actually* use them at the tourney scenario. I know Ganon will survive this process, for, basically the reasons appearing as quotes in certain of our comrades sigs as of late (fromundaman's of hyperstation; SaltyKracka's of Swoops; . . . yours).
 

hyperstation

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Yep, DADdy's got some advice for you too, PK.

I know what you're talking about, what you describe above about loosing momentum and hitting a wall at some point in the match. I'm going to try to address this by kind of...stacking techniques/approaches/punishes/w/e into different categories. But first, an observation:

I can't tell you how many matches I've had where I literally just destroy my opponent for the first stock and a half or two stocks, but like you said, at some point I'll hit a wall and have difficulty finishing the job. I think the reason this happens is because 1) when an opponent goes up against a competitive level Ganon, they're not only confused as to how EXACTLY to fight him, but they're just kind of shocked. 2) As the match goes on and your opponent gets a feel for your spacing/play style, they will adapt (if they're good) and begin to seemingly "limit" your options. That is, baiting them with a DAir into a SS FSmash might have worked for one or even two stocks, but it's certainly not going to work for all three, let alone a second or third match. This is when you need to draw on memory and remember not only all your other kill options, but the specific nuances of your match-up (more on this later).

All-the-Time Moves (Use them all time)
- Thunderstorming
- Aerials as bait for buffered follow-ups (DAir, UAir especially, also BAir)
- UAir
- DTilt
- Jab
- USmash​

These moves above I have listed under "All-the-Time" because you should, duh, be using them all the time, throughout all three matches. They are listed as such because they are moves you should not be afraid to spam/degrade their knockback on. These are not just your killing moves, they are also (and more importantly) your spacing moves. Your opponent should not be able to recognize that you only T-storm as an approach and only UAir as bait. These moves are all listed in the All-the-Time category because they inherently should be just as much about mindgames as they are about racking up damage. All of these moves can be followed up by buffered attacks. DTilt and iDA are by far the most important and common follow ups. Most of these moves can also be used as approach, bait, OR retreat, and the more options you have out of these moves, the better off you'll be and the more cautious your opponent will have to be. These are the moves that hold your spacing, and that's what wins the games.

Sometimes Moves (Use them sparingly or under specific conditions)

- FJ NAir
- Wiz Kick / Aerial Wiz Kick
- Gerudo / Aerial Gerudo
- DA/iDA
- Stage Spiking
- A well-spaced DJ FAir​

The "Sometimes" moves are move that you can't be relying on to win the match, but should be kept at the ready for a variety of reasons. For instance, Wiz Kick is generally a pretty bad move to use at a competitive level unless you just can't wait to get grabbed. However, Wiz Kick is incredibly successful at catching overly aggressive characters off guard during their approach if you use it directly after a bait of some form. I, for one, use DA like there's no tomorrow. Ganon has one of the best DAs in the game, and usually I use it to rack up damage and get my opponent in the air for follow-ups. However, if I'm facing, say, a MK, I purposely don't use DA until I get them up to around 80%. Gerudo -> iDA = instant kill at about 90%. That's just disturbing. At a certain point you might realize you're having a h3ll of a time with Aerial approaches. A FJ NAir is often a safe way to start cutting back your approaching opponent. It's not incredibly consistent, but it at least makes your opponent realize that they can't just keep lobbing over the top safely. Gerudo's not going to be as helpful in high level play as it is vs your little bro. You need to read it's usage much more carefully or you'll get punished. Gerudo should be used to grab out of shield and to punish lag almost exclusively. Regarding stage spiking, if your opponent dares to stay on the ledge, and you just aren't confident in your ledge stomp, just run off the side and flick the c-stick up or back. A well timed UAir or BAir right out of invisibility frames will absolutely pummel an overzealous ledge hanger. BAir here is probably your most effective since UAir should be pretty stale almost the whole match. BAir is usually pretty fresh and can kill at ridiculously low percentages on the stage spike. Chars with god recovery like MK can still get killed at like 50% with a fresh BAir. I. LOVE. STAGE-SPIKING.

Hey! You-forgot-about-me! Moves (Having trouble killing? How about a nice FRESH Ftilt?)

- FTilt
- BAir
- Stage Spiking
- Gerudo -> iDA (char specific)
- Ledge Hop -> BAir/UAir on recovering foe
- DSmash
- A well spaced DJ FAir
- Do you have a release grab?​

These are the moves that I go to when I am thinking, "hmm, DA, DAir, and DTilt are stale, FSmash and USmash are too slow, fighting over the ledge is too risky...what do I do?" How about baiting with a UAir or USmash directly into an FTilt? FTilt will almost always be fresh because it's just not that good for racking damage, but it's knockback is just insane. Think about BAir the same way as FTilt because, due to its...strange hitbox, you probably didn't connect with it too many times, so it's probably relatively fresh. If you hadn't noticed already that the char you're facing is guaranteed Gerudo -> iDA, smack yourself in the face and then grab that m f*cker and iDA him to h3ll. If you're doing a good job hitting your opponent off the sides but they keep getting back, run to the ledge and speedhug so they think you're incorrectly edge hogging them, and immediately jump off the ledge to meet them with a BAir, UAir or DAir. I use this kill ALL. THE. TIME. It lets Ganon jump way high up without having to rely on FoG. Finally, chances are your DSmash is only as staled as the number of incorrectly buffered iDAs and DTilts you did during the match. Look for an opportunity for an opponent rolling past you, and if you see it, flick that c-stick down for a DSmash. I don't like it, but it works (sometimes).

I know this is a lot of information, and it's hardly well organized, so I apologize. The gist of it is this:

ALWAYS
thunderstorm, feign aerials/USmashes as bait, and DTilt/jab/UAir for spacing.

DON'T FORGET ABOUT FJ NAir, Gerudo/Aerial Gerudo and their follow ups, DA/iDA, Wiz Kick/Aerial Wiz Kick, DJ FAir, and Stage Spiking with BAir/UAir.

When having difficulty finishing the job, RESORT TO baited FTilt, Stage Spiking, can you Gerudo -> iDA?, match-up specific techs (release grabs, for example), Ledge hop kills via BAir/UAir on recovering foes, DSmash.

Most importantly, you need to be using the tried and true ganon tactics - those listed in the ALWAYS category - even once your brain has moved into the proverbial "FTilt FTW!" mode. Once you whiff the FTilt once, your cover is blown, and they're going to be watching out for that terrifying spartan kick...I mean, who hasn't seen 300, right? As long as you're maintaining spacing as best you can, there's nothing wrong with racking up some extra damage while looking for the opening to get that kill. In other words, don't just rush in like an idiot with the first "fresh" idea that comes to your head towards the end of the match. Keep your cool and wait until you see the opportunity, IF you see the opportunity.

Christ, this is an ugly post. Sorry it's not better organized, but I promise there's a lot of good information in there somewhere. Good luck, dudes.
 

Swoops

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Dad, did you forget about aerial>f-smash o.O? Lol...Gerudo>iDA is almost ALWAYS your best option to finish off MK. You're going to need it a lot in the tournament, so get the timing down.

I always got into a weird mode when I went to tourneys, especially melee ones >_>. Dunno if it was pressure or not, but I'd suddenly try to do too much and force everything, and my playstyle would completely change and I wouldn't do anything that I would normally do. Lol I played KishSquared's bowser in brackets and got this huge crowd around us cause I was actually doing semi-well with my dorf...lost, and I like to think it was because I choked >_>...heh, FLAME choked.
 

hyperstation

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Bleh, I mentioned it in the opening paragraph, butthead. It's true though, Aerial -> SS FSmash is just disgusting. I rack a huge percentage of my damage by baiting people into FSmash (especially Swoops :)). But that really only works like the first half a dozen times or so that they walk into it. After getting pummeled in the face over and over (several of which probably led to KOs), opponents will start to space correctly and punish you out of your FSmash cool down.

Note: I probably missed a ton of sh*t in my post. I realized at a certain point I was just trying to sum up my entire Ganon game within a very disorganized system. What might be best is for you all to try to sum up your own play styles in a similar way. What is most important? What is situational? What moves do you use to finish when nothing else seems to be working? It's a good exercise.
 

Swoops

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Bleh, I mentioned it in the opening paragraph, butthead. It's true though, Aerial -> SS FSmash is just disgusting. I rack a huge percentage of my damage by baiting people into FSmash (especially Swoops :)). But that really only works like the first half a dozen times or so that they walk into it. After getting pummeled in the face over and over (several of which probably led to KOs), opponents will start to space correctly and punish you out of your FSmash cool down.
Lol...my bad I skimmed. That's mostly why I don't use it to rack up damage, you save it for a kill when it's hard to get one. It becomes a lot more useful when you're rarely using except for a bait to kill em or put em off he edge.

oh and hyper...butthead?
 

Shadow Nataku

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I'd place heavier emphasis on UAir and Thunderstorming over everything else. In the majority of tournament matches these are Ganon's safest punishers for almost any situation.

I forgot something kinda important but kinda obvious but do change your tactics for whatever character you face. Although for people like Dedede, Toon Link and Pit I'd 100% plain counterpick since Ganny has next to no real chance against them.

Some others like Marth can be fought on an even playing field but requires different punishers and approaches due to his wierd hitbox from those FAir's, BAir's and NAir's. Only way to punish straight out is SHFF BAir/FAir or an aerial Gerudo. Only other way to hit him is with buffered feints so attacks from a buffered UAir, DAir or cancelled USmash. Marth is almost never exposed to those moves in a normal situation so you want to aim with the attack after the initial attack.

Snake is probably one of Ganon's best high tier matchups as he is vulnerable to DTilt/Thunderstorm and even FJNAir happy Ganny's and you will have to be brave at times against him. Snake is most vulnerable to Ganondorf at the edge and is one of the few matchups you will need to be able to be slightly offensive at a moments notice.

I cannot stress how important this is to work out which moves in Ganon's arsenal punish each character most effectively.
 

Swoops

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I'd place heavier emphasis on UAir and Thunderstorming over everything else. In the majority of tournament matches these are Ganon's safest punishers for almost any situation.

I forgot something kinda important but kinda obvious but do change your tactics for whatever character you face. Although for people like Dedede, Toon Link and Pit I'd 100% plain counterpick since Ganny has next to no real chance against them.

Snake is probably one of Ganon's best high tier matchups as he is vulnerable to DTilt/Thunderstorm and even FJNAir happy Ganny's and you will have to be brave at times against him. Snake is most vulnerable to Ganondorf at the edge and is one of the few matchups you will need to be able to be slightly offensive at a moments notice.

I cannot stress how important this is to work out which moves in Ganon's arsenal punish each character most effectively.
Personally, I have a lot easier time against people like TLink, DDD, and Pit than I do against a solid snake (>->). If you can get a stomp off then it's **** rewarding, but u-tilt murders stomp. Edgeguarding is great against snake, but it's so **** hard to get up from the ledge with a decent Snake on the stage. At least all of those others have guarantees off of gerudo other than jab, and can be punished a lot easier for mistakes.

The real big ones that I would consider switching for (well, I wouldn't, I go Ganon every time regardless of match up.../snob) is definitely Falco, usually MK, Wolf is doable, and maybe Snake.
 

hyperstation

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The real big ones that I would consider switching for (well, I wouldn't, I go Ganon every time regardless of match up.../snob) is definitely Falco, usually MK, Wolf is doable, and maybe Snake.
Alright BUTTHEAD. MK is not Ganon's worst match-up by a long shot IMO. There just aren't enough M2Ks out there to make it as gruesome as it could be in theory, and generally, I do just fine against MK. Snake is also one of the best high-tier match-ups Ganon's got. FTilt that guy into a cypher then own him in any number of ways. Thunderstorm/bouncing racks up his damage way fast, also. Falco is just plain h3ll, but you can bounce him around too. And you saying that you generally do pretty well against DDD makes me question the level of DDD you've faced before. A good DDD will just rip you apart and there's almost nothing you can do about it. Out-spaced entirely with projectiles/FTilt, and a good DDD will NEVER miss a chaingrab on Ganon once they start it. Never.

That said...I never counterpick. :lick:
 

Swoops

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I don't think MK is Ganon's worst match up at all, and I'm finding new ways to deal with it all the time. But still, a good MK is always a harder match up then the same skill level DDD. I have played good DDDs, and the match up is hardly ****. Chain grab racks up a bit of damage and takes you off the stage for edgeguard. Bad, but if you stay calm sweetspot into the edge and reset.

Waddle dees/doos aren't that hard to deal with and you should be able to jab them away pretty easily, not to mention delayed stomps for funzies. F-tilt spacing isn't hard to get around. I'm probably wrong as hell, but it seems like you can punish it out of shield with d-tilt, depending on range, and most likely DA.

And I don't think you've played a good snake hyper -_-. You can't just throw out f-tilts and hope to hit him, especially if you try to "keep outside" his defense, you're going to get cooked nades and lobbed nades all day, which can be dealt with, but they do have to be dealt with. I love playing the Ganon/Snake match up, but it's still not an amazing match up. It can definitely be handled though.

Falco is in my opinion, Ganon's worst match up. Lasars, chaingrab to spike at early percents (can be recovered from and sometimes avoided, but it can be nasty to deal with on stages like lylat and FD), no guaranteed Gerudo follow ups, can't be bounced around with stomp (don't know what you meant with this o.O, he can get out of stomp>u-smash)...I really don't like the falco match up.

Also...I said "maybe" snake...butthead >_>
 

studly

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come on you guys need to say something epic

im wanting something to replace this useless quote in my sig
and im still waiting

and im gonna agree that metakinight isnt ganon's worse matchup
doesnt seem to be a big problem for me as long as i can interupt the whorenado in time

but im gonna agree with swoops that Falco may indeed be ganon's worse matchup
mmmmi hate chain grabs to spikes
 

:034:

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Thanks for all the tips guys <3 Much appreciated.

I'll go Ganondorf against Snake.. I might counterpick DK if it gets really tough. My Wolf is horribly bad against Snake for some reason. I've got a ton of practice against my friend's Snake, so there's not much trouble there. I'll switch to DK or Wolf for Falco (not sure on either, but most likely Wolf so I won't get spammed as hard), MK and to Wolf for D3. Oh, and Marth I'll probably go Wolf.

We're not actually that terrorized by MK, he's not played as much. The most worries I have is playing against a character I'm completly unfamiliar with, such as Pikachu, Olimar or Diddy. I'm scared that I'll get all nervous and screw up on everything. I'll try to play a lot of friendlies before the tournament starts, from 10-11 there's enough free space... Dunno how much friendlies I can play after the tournament since we're running a pretty tight schedule. Teams and Singles on one day is pretty big.

Oh, I'll be teaming with Empy, who wrote the guide with Kirk on the Ike Boards. We'll probably go Wolf-Ike or Ganon/DK-Falco, we'll see about that. Either way, it is pretty awesome.

And so far, I AM known as the "Ganon player" so that's pretty cool. :D

And yeah, Falco is pretty much Ganondorf's worst match-up... My blood boils just thinking about how stupidly unfair it is.
 

hyperstation

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I don't think MK is Ganon's worst match up at all, and I'm finding new ways to deal with it all the time. But still, a good MK is always a harder match up then the same skill level DDD. I have played good DDDs, and the match up is hardly ****. Chain grab racks up a bit of damage and takes you off the stage for edgeguard. Bad, but if you stay calm sweetspot into the edge and reset.

Waddle dees/doos aren't that hard to deal with and you should be able to jab them away pretty easily, not to mention delayed stomps for funzies. F-tilt spacing isn't hard to get around. I'm probably wrong as hell, but it seems like you can punish it out of shield with d-tilt, depending on range, and most likely DA.

And I don't think you've played a good snake hyper -_-. You can't just throw out f-tilts and hope to hit him, especially if you try to "keep outside" his defense, you're going to get cooked nades and lobbed nades all day, which can be dealt with, but they do have to be dealt with. I love playing the Ganon/Snake match up, but it's still not an amazing match up. It can definitely be handled though.

Falco is in my opinion, Ganon's worst match up. Lasars, chaingrab to spike at early percents (can be recovered from and sometimes avoided, but it can be nasty to deal with on stages like lylat and FD), no guaranteed Gerudo follow ups, can't be bounced around with stomp (don't know what you meant with this o.O, he can get out of stomp>u-smash)...I really don't like the falco match up.

Also...I said "maybe" snake...butthead >_>
I agree about Falco. Gross.

I've played phenomenal Snakes, buddy. H4X in NYC is a gross Snake and I nearly beat him: 2-1 him. A huge crowd formed around that tournament match because people basically thought it wasn't possible, especially vs a NYC mainstay like H4X. I didn't even KNOW about cypher kills then. 'Nades are way easy to avoid or even use against Snake, even when they're cooked, mortar slide is hardly as brutal as people make it out to be, and you only get tilted if your spacing sucks. Getting onto the stage is not nearly as hard as people say vs even exceptional Snakes. Snake is not a bad match-up for Ganon by any stretch of the imagination. He has WAY worse match-ups, as I'm sure you'll agree.

I still completely disagree about what you say about DDD. DDD sends you to h3ll and back and there's so little you can do. You're entirely wrong about DTilt as a counter to DDD's FTilt...it doesn't even come close. A good DDD basically cuts out all lag that DDD inherently has, so you're basically dealing with a huge, super fast BAiring, FTilting, Chaingrabbing, Stage Spiking motha f*cka. Reassess how you feel about DDD after you've been taken to the wash in an actual tournament match. Yeah...3 stocking like it's no one's business, and the sad thing is that I actually have a lot of experience against DDDs and know how to manage my spacing exceptionally well. It doesn't take much to put ganon in a bind in this match-up is all I'm saying.

------------------------------------------

Now, for FD-

Stick with Ganon for Marth. That match-up is NOT hard. I think it may be Ganon's easiest High Tier Match-up. The reason is, Marth has to get within Ganons DTilt, iDA, and Wiz Kick range when he's approaching in order to actually land hits. This match-up is all about feigning attacks and following up with those 3 moves in order to get aerial strings going. Feign with DAir, USmash, and UAir (generally regular, but RAR works too) from a safe distance and punish everytime they come within your range with a buffered DTilt, iDA or Wiz Kick. Wiz Kick is actually extremely useful in this match-up out of DAir. It comes out way fast, and Marth will often approach with FAir, allowing you to slip under him with a quick buffered Wiz Kick and knock his feet underneath his hit box. Granted, I have a lot of experience vs talented Marths, but I don't find this match-up difficult.

Same with Diddy. Stick with Ganon, learn to Glide Toss before the match-up and place a premium on maintaining control of at least one banana. Diddy will turn his back on you and toss out one or two bananas. During his Banana toss animation, run in and DA right over his banana. You'll pick it up, hit him with the DA out of his toss animation, and DA underneath the other banana. Then start banana ****** with mad DA usage to maintain control of both bananas. Don't get overzealous going for the bananas because if you miss, Diddy can change the momentum pretty quickly. Most importantly is to safely avoid Diddy's banana->DA **** and get control of the bananas as the opportunities present themselves in order to change the momentum. Bananas DEFINE this match-up, and if you're smart with them, you'll win.

Pikachu is gross and I hate him. Olimar will give you a lot of trouble if you don't have experience vs him.
 

PK-ow!

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Yep, DADdy's got some advice for you too, PK.
Wow, thank you for all that. . .

but I think I gave the wrong idea. D:

I never forget about the moves. Every technique I know, is an imminent and readily available part of my consciousness. I integrate them all into my identity as a Ganon user; trust me, I don't have to 'study' my techniques (just practice technically pulling them off. . . which takes longer for me than most, though).

It's not that I hit a 'wall', it's more like a mental cloud of fog. I don't feel myself as unable to do something, there's just a numbness in my ability to pick something to do. I don't feel the impetus to land blows. Oddly, my prediction is still good, but I become this sort of observer who doesn't feel connected to the character on-screen anymore. So I'm like "he's gonna roll then Dsmash," and then I out-of-sync spot dodge and get hit anyway.

. . . it's a mental thing, perhaps none of us are qualified to figure it out. Your info would help if it were just a matter of remembering what moves are generally good and such, since the only symptoms of this problem are I cease to pick good moves at better than chance. But what I need to do is keep my head in the game - stop what 'distraction' is going on, if it's that, or whatever.


I'll use your post as a guide to tactics and "specific moves," though. And hah, I knew Usmash was great.

If you could ban one stage from CPs of a tourney set, for Ganon's benefit, which would it be? Assume that the stagelist is SBR approved, with all Banned/CP ambiguous stages in the Banned category. What if you (a) don't know your opponent's character? (b) can assume your opponent's character is drawn from a random distribution that gives weight to high tier characters (say, because you are moving up in the tourney)?
 

:034:

Smash Hero
Joined
Jun 9, 2007
Messages
7,562
Location
Netherlands
Oh, while we're at it - stages... I'm not entirely sure what are good choices against certain characters.

Here's the stage list for this tournament:

Neutraal (Random Select)
• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Smashville
• Yoshi's Island

Counter
• Brinstar
• Castle Siege
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Lylat Cruise
• Pokemon Stadium 1

I will probably always ban Final Destination since I have a personal grudge against this stage... FD is an FD counterpick, heh. I realize that Delfino Plaza is an amazing stage for Ganon, especially against those without spikes. I'll probably counterpick Plaza 80% of the time, but are there other stages worth looking into? And for specific characters?
 

hyperstation

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 24, 2008
Messages
1,009
Location
Brooklyn
Oh, while we're at it - stages... I'm not entirely sure what are good choices against certain characters.

Here's the stage list for this tournament:

Neutraal (Random Select)
• Battlefield
• Final Destination
• Smashville
• Yoshi's Island

Counter
• Brinstar
• Castle Siege
• Delfino Plaza
• Frigate Orpheon
• Halberd
• Lylat Cruise
• Pokemon Stadium 1

I will probably always ban Final Destination since I have a personal grudge against this stage... FD is an FD counterpick, heh. I realize that Delfino Plaza is an amazing stage for Ganon, especially against those without spikes. I'll probably counterpick Plaza 80% of the time, but are there other stages worth looking into? And for specific characters?
I always band Yoshi's Island. It's horrible. Slants = FTL for Ganon.

The other 3 neutrals are safe/good for Ganon against the whole cast. I actually am beginning to truly love FD, esp against Martha.

Normally I'd bad some sh*t like Lylat for the same reasons I ban Yoshi, but depending on who you're facing, that will change. For instance, if you're facing a DDD or Falco, I'd ban Castle Seige. There are too many times where they could CG you off the side to death. You also have to be mindful if they pick Delfino for the same reasons...certain mutations of that level are gross for CGs, but also they can suck because DDD can trap you against a wall and just pummel away.
 

Shadow Nataku

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Messages
905
One thing I have to disagree on in hyperstations post is DTilt's aren't as brilliant against Marth as you think his short hop completely clears the hitbox annoyingly so he can actually accidentally 'dodge' it by simply going for the common FAir. It should be used much more sparingly than normal and only ever from a buffer.

Stage picking is easy with Ganon, for neutral always ban Yoshi's Island. Yoshi Island is because the slopes play absolute havoc with Ganny's auto cancels, buffers and spacing. Even ledgedrop recoveries aren't very safe because of the slopes and flat stage walls and easy to reach edges.

Ganondorf only has one cool trick on Yoshi's Island and thats if you Up+B when one of those side platforms pop up it sends Ganondorf rocketing in whichever direction you inputed. Its situational at best but if you get the chance while an opponent is recovering it has a psuedo FoG effect. Lylat Cruise is also well avoided for the same lack of Wizkick Cancels and auto cancel/buffer timing mess ups.

For your counterpicks you want to try avoid it depends completely on the character you face, but I personally hate Frigate Orpheon because the ledges are completely unfriendly to Ganondorf. Especially against R.O.B. and Wario, they will enjoy being complete *******s to you. They can almost exclusively play on the ledgeless side of Frigate Orpheon while Ganon is forced to try stay as close to an ledge or the middle as possible. Otherwise Frigate Orpheon normally is quite a decent stage for Ganon.

This is important to know as R.O.B. and Wario are actually some of Ganon's more even matchups. Oh and a completely random tip but tipper USmash is the fastest KO'ing move on Wario, his resistance to side KO's is amazing even against Ganon. Wario can literally take a FSmash to the face at 80+% I believe and still come back to annoy you more.

Castle Siege and Pokemon Stadium be very wary of characters with possible chaingrabs, this includes Pikachu, Pokemon Trainer, Falco, Dedede. However in the case of PS1 there are points which make for amazing defensive camping spots for Ganon due to his USmash/UAir's humongous range and priority. You want to force people into confrontations on Delfino Plaza, Brinstar, Battlefield, Smashville and Halberd to a certain extent.

For characters, Olimar matches can be ugly but an important thing to remember is a thunderstorm cleans your entire body of any Pikmin they decide to throw. However more than often Olimar is about abusing that stupidly big grab range and his fast aerials. You will learn to love Ganny's SS FSmash/UAir/Thunderstorm more than any other move in this match. If you don't feel confident than don't take the chance, Olimar is rather unconventional and lack of experience will be your downfall.

Pikachu, I'd just throw in the towel. Its not worth dealing with the rodent, I'd take a Wolf/Dedede any day of the week instead. I know higher level Pikachu players are capable of an incredibly horrible quick attack buffer cancel which can result in horrible unexpected smash attacks.
 

Chaos317

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 30, 2008
Messages
16
Location
PA, USA
I think what you need to consider is that when using the Triforce you do not just use the one you are given, Power, but to use all three. Use your Wisdom to be patient to know what to do, use your Courage to follow through with your decision, and use your natural gifted talent, Power, to finish the job.

Although i may not have the experience to back my advise, i wish for you to take it into consideration with every move you make and every life you take.

May the Force be with you.
 

ZeonStar

Smash Ace
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
601
Location
Rome, GA
If there are any crazy counterpick stages, I would make sure to ban the one that would give you the most trouble. I faced a falco player twice in the regular, and losers bracket and he beat me by picking jungle japes twice.

...yeah that wasnt fun.
 
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