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Music City Smash

Will_

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 2, 2008
Messages
236
With MK out and Standing Infinites out it opens up alot of things for everyone to do. (I really tried to cater to you Bill_ since i was Banning MK)
Thanks KO. Does that include infinite release grab? Cause Ness would appreciate it(I'll have to bring him out for DK's bad matchups).

I'm glad I could take part in this experiment(banning MK) but if the same people win, will the ban be reconsidered?

shoutouts:

Moogle: I always learn new and awesome songs when I ride with you. Crystal Castles ftw. Thanks for teaming with me, your fox is always a kickass KO tank.

TIJ: Good stuff beating Nboy and repping it up for AL.

Joot: Hope you had a good 21st, man.

Jack: You are still the most powerful and awesome entity to emerge from 4chan. I will watch Gurren Lagann one day!

Chad: "Someone will probably win this fight! GO!" You are too chill. We'll play PPL and Bust-a-move next time.

Nes n00b: holy CRAP I want to play more Melty Blood. That game is amazing and so are you.

Slash: Sorry you had to cross so much off of your list lol. It's good seeing you at these events too.

MillIn: Nice matches, and yeah, you really did have me on millnchat xD. Help me out on SWR installation plz! AIM is Hazuki512.

Midnight: Awesome Diddy/Rob. You almost had me in the MK ditto, gj.

KO: Thanks for hosting another tournament, I look forward to the new spacious venue. Nice Yoshi/Ganon, too.

Ajax: Best sheik I've ever played. Keep it up.

Meta Knight: I'll miss you man. See you in AL sometime.
 

Ajax615

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Tennessee
the main key to fighting metaknight is learning his moves and being patient.

like if I retreat fair. why would you try to punish me, i'm metaknight.
if I d-smash, you can't punish me unless you've got a really quick move. don't try to f-smash me, i can d-smash/block/spotdodge again before you get it out, i'm metaknight!
if you're on the ground, just block the tornado, geez. and don't try to punish me after i'm done. I'm metaknight!
why are you trying to edgeguard me, I"m metaknight!

for me fighting mk is just a matter of picking a character that can pressure him, usually with projectiles, and that can kill him quickly (which is almost everyone)...and just playing smart. you can't do the same followups and stuff on MK

now i might be biased because I play snake, which is one of MK's hard matchups (and because I can f-tilt a blocked d-smash from MK, which gives you about a quarter of the damage you need to kill him lol) but i dunno...obv he's the best character, but when I watch people playing the game, they're making silly mistakes
than could be circumvented by just learning MK's moves.
Ok first of all this is bull. If it was that easy to beat a metaknight there wouldn't be any controversy from the little s***. I use a character with projectiles and they don't do SH** against MK

I'm a low tier character so I study everychance I get on characters and what your sayn on MK is irrelevant and nobody would ever lose to one. I've been through much with sheik to hear that I don't know a character.
 

Kain17

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
73
Location
Nashville, TN
Can someone explain diddy's advantages on fd? I have never actually played a good diddy player on his home turf, so I was wondering: Is it just the nanners?
 

_Phloat_

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
2,953
Location
Tennessee V_V
Ok first of all this is bull. If it was that easy to beat a metaknight there wouldn't be any controversy from the little s***. I use a character with projectiles and they don't do SH** against MK

I'm a low tier character so I study everychance I get on characters and what your sayn on MK is irrelevant and nobody would ever lose to one. I've been through much with sheik to hear that I don't know a character.
He never said it was easy. lol. They do a lot against MK, sure they won't win the game for you... they are projectiles!

And being a low tier means you will naturally have trouble with some matchups, that is why shiek is low tier.

Also, he is saying learn to fight MK. Well, you have the knowledge, but refuse to use some of it on the grounds of "honor." Which is the same, in effectiveness, as not knowing it at all.
 

Ajax615

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Tennessee
Even if I wanted to fight with my honor thrown away certain things don't work. Tilt lock won't work for they can shuttle loop. Needle spam doesn't work since my lag on needles leaves me open for a dsmash. My options and for others are extremely limited
 

_MidnighT_

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 22, 2009
Messages
123
Can someone explain diddy's advantages on fd? I have never actually played a good diddy player on his home turf, so I was wondering: Is it just the nanners?
fd is just a long, flat stage that allows diddy to setup easier than on some other stages. his advantages really arent significantly greater here than on other neutrals/PS1 though, and one could debate that the platforms (plats and stage effects on PS1) add another element to banana control that fd doesnt have *shrugs* =/
 

Ajax615

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Tennessee
Sorry for double post i wont probably make it to the one in May if its after the 20th. Ill be in New York till the 27th. :(
 

theONEjanitor

Smash Champion
Joined
May 31, 2006
Messages
2,497
Location
Birmingham, AL
NNID
the1janitor
MK is the best character in Brawl.
obv
he's not "easy" to beat. MK ***** almost every character in the game. especially low tiers

The best characters in any game, usually does that. Snake does too. and dedede and falco. That's the definition of high tiers

sheik and marth **** the low tiers in melee wayyyyyyy harder than MK does in brawl.
but no one ever considered banning them

but when you say "lolz all MK needs to do is spam tornado" you clearly don't know how to fight MK lol tornado is a beastly move, but only when used sparingly. it's easy to see coming, and easy to not get hit by it, and easy to punish if you manage to avoid it. you should only ever get hit by tornado if your opponent tricks you into getting hit by it. or if your shield is low.


i'm gonna make a video called "how to beat MK". maybe it will save Brawl.


the crazy thing is about 90% of MK players aren't even good at the game, they just get by cuz no one knows how to fight metaknight.
 

Ajax615

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Tennessee
Lol I never witnessed Shadow using MK lol someones framing you buddy! lol and so since i came in like 5th does that affect ranking for my character all over the brawl community?
 

Ajax615

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 8, 2008
Messages
119
Location
Tennessee
MK is the best character in Brawl.
obv
he's not "easy" to beat. MK ***** almost every character in the game. especially low tiers

The best characters in any game, usually does that. Snake does too. and dedede and falco. That's the definition of high tiers

sheik and marth **** the low tiers in melee wayyyyyyy harder than MK does in brawl.
but no one ever considered banning them

but when you say "lolz all MK needs to do is spam tornado" you clearly don't know how to fight MK lol tornado is a beastly move, but only when used sparingly. it's easy to see coming, and easy to not get hit by it, and easy to punish if you manage to avoid it. you should only ever get hit by tornado if your opponent tricks you into getting hit by it. or if your shield is low.


i'm gonna make a video called "how to beat MK". maybe it will save Brawl.


the crazy thing is about 90% of MK players aren't even good at the game, they just get by cuz no one knows how to fight metaknight.
Sorry for double post lol. But true I shouldn't have been hit by it being how fast i play. Still I consider him the biggest annoyance and what you said is true that 90% of metaknights aren't really good. Lol and the vid would probably only be truly helpful if you made it for every character and had a strategy. It's a huge project but I'll help contribute at anytime since i know AL people prolly hate MK's too
 

_Phloat_

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
2,953
Location
Tennessee V_V
I played Ice Climbers in a friendly, can we ban their grabs?














Just kidding =P... Are their infinite grabs allowed? Those actually take some input, as well as being much harder to set up...
 

Power of Slash

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
538
Location
Antioch, TN
as I've honestly always thought.

I don't care how difficult that infinite grab is to pull off, or how hard it is to get a grab with the IC's.

Letting that thing run infinitely is not the way to go. at all. I still don't care about the amount of skill needed to pull those off. Maybe you can do like... 5 refreshed grabs or something, but going from 0% -> Death for every character(this seperates the whole Fox matchups not being banned counterargument) imho is just ridiculous.
 

ZOM~B

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
497
Location
Woodstock, GA
as I've honestly always thought.

I don't care how difficult that infinite grab is to pull off, or how hard it is to get a grab with the IC's.

Letting that thing run infinitely is not the way to go. at all. I still don't care about the amount of skill needed to pull those off. Maybe you can do like... 5 refreshed grabs or something, but going from 0% -> Death for every character(this seperates the whole Fox matchups not being banned counterargument) imho is just ridiculous.
My counter argument, is that even with that the ice climbers don't make a top tier character. It's more than possible to go a whole match without being grabbed much less being grabbed 3 times. It takes smarts though, and is definitely not EASY, by any means.

Granted I've never fought a climbers who knew how to do it.

PS still looking for a date for the next one
 

Milln

Smash Champion
Joined
Feb 9, 2008
Messages
2,625
Location
Tennessee
*demolishes everyone that misspells/mispronounces his name* T-T!!!

SWR will prolly be 5 dollars next month unless someone is violently opposed to it. I figure it's a lot easier to boney up. A five dollar bill versus 4 stray ones. Would also help with change-giving issues. Looking forward to the competition. Once again, if you can bring a setup (Laptop + one or two controllers or just a laptop) send me a pm or a text message or call me on the phone or something.

New venue is gonna be amaziiiiiiing.

COME ON BABY IS A FUN GAME

That video documentary is awesome, Slash. Make one each month, especially next month for the new venue.
 

Alrgureth

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 20, 2009
Messages
222
Location
Nashville, Tennessee.
*demolishes everyone that misspells/mispronounces his name* T-T!!!

SWR will prolly be 5 dollars next month unless someone is violently opposed to it. I figure it's a lot easier to boney up. A five dollar bill versus 4 stray ones. Would also help with change-giving issues. Looking forward to the competition. Once again, if you can bring a setup (Laptop + one or two controllers or just a laptop) send me a pm or a text message or call me on the phone or something.

New venue is gonna be amaziiiiiiing.

COME ON BABY IS A FUN GAME

That video documentary is awesome, Slash. Make one each month, especially next month for the new venue.
I shall tackle these statements one at a time.

SWR for 5$ is definitely cool. Like before, I shall bring my laptop again (and NOT forget things this time)

New venue definitely looks amazing. Super hyped for next month. If only for the venue.

Come on Baby! Is definitely fun. Kills your palms though.

Vid docs are definitely cool, Slashy. I filmed about half myself, just had him upload it on his channel "to keep it all together" I agree on him continuing it. I'll probably carry my camera with me too.
 

Power of Slash

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
538
Location
Antioch, TN
my counter argument, One small mistake could lead to losing a whole stock, for any character. Fox's situation you can atleast Counterpick out of, but vs. IC's you really can't. And even though it takes smarts and all that, it's still a highly dangerous thing to leave hanging out there, and once you're in it you can't escape. It's kind of not easy to just say "don't get grabbed" or simply because it takes some skill to do that it's passable.

Then again there are a whole bunch of infinites out there, but putting a limit on infinites in general shouldn't be that hard =o
 

TheShadowz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 30, 2008
Messages
111
Yes, it'll increase shieks points for the character ranking chart.
Pardon my ignorance, but where is this chart? ive searched like every spelling/variant of character ranking chart for like 10 minutes.
 

DanGR

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 10, 2008
Messages
6,860
MK is the best character in Brawl.
obv
he's not "easy" to beat. MK ***** almost every character in the game. especially low tiers

The best characters in any game, usually does that. Snake does too. and dedede and falco. That's the definition of high tiers

sheik and marth **** the low tiers in melee wayyyyyyy harder than MK does in brawl.
but no one ever considered banning them

but when you say "lolz all MK needs to do is spam tornado" you clearly don't know how to fight MK lol tornado is a beastly move, but only when used sparingly. it's easy to see coming, and easy to not get hit by it, and easy to punish if you manage to avoid it. you should only ever get hit by tornado if your opponent tricks you into getting hit by it. or if your shield is low.


i'm gonna make a video called "how to beat MK". maybe it will save Brawl.


the crazy thing is about 90% of MK players aren't even good at the game, they just get by cuz no one knows how to fight metaknight.
First off, I'm undecided on MK. I've been on both sides at one point, and I sway back and forth as I get more up to date about the community's progression. Lately I've been a bit more pro-ban, and I can't envision myself turning the other way anytime soon, really.

I'm usually not the one to call anyone out, but your post just isn't true in the least bit. Your conclusions are so fallacious or just plain... wrong that I feel forced to say something. Nothing against you personally. I just heavily disagree with you. For now, I'll just tell you the reason smart, intelligent, and good players may want to ban him. It's not because he's "hard" to beat. It's because...

1. He breaks the counterpick system. This game revolves around it. It's what makes this game unique and makes it a fun, healthy game. When you have no bad matchups, the best answer to fight your character is the the character itself. (This isn't the case in Melee! There's a clear matchup triangle in that game!) In the long run, people that want to win will eventually switch to the character that has no bad matchups. This is happening throughout the country... right now.

"Well, Snake, Diddy, and ____ have a good matchup on him. He doesn't break the CP system." This is all debatable, and that's the reason why I can't confidently say I'm on either side. It may be too early to tell... BUT the fact that people keep bringing up matchups that may seem even-ish at the time, and people are regularly shooting down these ideas... it says a lot about the likelihood that these supposedly even matchups are actually even.

Ex. Just a couple days ago on the Diddy boards, a well-known, very respected Diddy main wrote a post about why the MK-Diddy matchup is DEFINITELY not in Diddy's favor. (I can fetch if you wish) It rather proposed that it could be higher than 60-40 in MK's favor provided the MK knows how to use the bananas, which is very realistic.

2. He's EXTREMELY easy to use; there's no question. Normally, this wouldn't be an issue, (it was the same case for Sheik in Melee for a while- that's a whole nother story though) but when good players are beating other players of significantly better skill regularly... still!, it's a problem. This makes the transition from ______ to MK that much easier and encouraging. Even against great players, many good players can and have picked up MK and have used him in as little as a couple days and performed much, much better. (I'm not talking about Joe Shmoe beating his friend with MK. I'm talking about at the top level of play. It happens at all levels) Great players want to win more easily and quickly, and MK is by far, the easiest character to use in the game.

3. His moveset is unbelievably good. The speed, range, and laglessness on ALL of his attacks are just too good. He's got the fastest speed to range ratio in the game on nearly all of his attacks, a recovery that is 100% impossible to gimp, single attacks that destroy half the cast (tornado and shuttleloop mostly), etc. I could go on and on. This isn't even mentioning his camping/stalling game (excluding IDC and planking), which most people haven't utilized yet.

Conclusion-
What's worse than all of this is that it isn't/hasn't been getting better. Most characters are drifting farther and farther away (I can name several, and the ones that have made small strides and gotten closer aren't even close to MK to begin with), he is doing better in tourneys, more and more people are switching to him or quitting the game entirely (Ex. Chu's biweeklies are slowly converting to Brawl+ because they're tired of this game), and most importantly and again, people are switching to MK.
 

KOkingpin

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 2, 2005
Messages
2,622
Location
Murfreesboro, TN
All standing Infinites are banned. Dedede vs DK, Mario, Luigi, Samus, ??? ICs standing Infinites vs all chars, Yoshi Grab release vs Wario. Anything else you can think of? ICs Chain throwing into Icicle lock is legal though cause that stuff is hard. Laser Locking is legal cause you pretty much have to suck for it to happen or just not care.
 

ZOM~B

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
497
Location
Woodstock, GA
All standing Infinites are banned. Dedede vs DK, Mario, Luigi, Samus, ??? ICs standing Infinites vs all chars, Yoshi Grab release vs Wario. Anything else you can think of? ICs Chain throwing into Icicle lock is legal though cause that stuff is hard. Laser Locking is legal cause you pretty much have to suck for it to happen or just not care.
ZSS grab release vs Wario?
ZSS dsmash footstool vs ROB?

(And I'm pretty sure falco laser lock is traditionally banned. Ice block lock usually isn't. I'm not sure on the knock back of a laser, but I know you'll only take about 20% SDIing across FD from an iceblock lock.
 

KOkingpin

Smash Champion
Joined
Jul 2, 2005
Messages
2,622
Location
Murfreesboro, TN
ZSS grab release vs Wario?
ZSS dsmash footstool vs ROB?

(And I'm pretty sure falco laser lock is traditionally banned. Ice block lock usually isn't. I'm not sure on the knock back of a laser, but I know you'll only take about 20% SDIing across FD from an iceblock lock.
Ive never seen a rule on banning laser locking. But i never see it attempted. Its really hard to pull off due to insta-dodge and tech rolling. Is the grab release like Yoshi's vs Wario? if so then its Banned. Ive never seen the Dsmash footstool thing you will have to show it to me. is it like a free damage?
 

ZOM~B

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 1, 2008
Messages
497
Location
Woodstock, GA
Ive never seen a rule on banning laser locking. But i never see it attempted. Its really hard to pull off due to insta-dodge and tech rolling. Is the grab release like Yoshi's vs Wario? if so then its Banned. Ive never seen the Dsmash footstool thing you will have to show it to me. is it like a free damage?
It's a 0-death. : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCAaOhH6UUg&fmt=18

On Laser Lock:
I'm pretty sure it's banned in the "official" SBR ruleset? I don't know. I've never even seen it. And ZSS has to do a pivot grab. But it's the same as yoshi vs wario otherwise.
 

-Chad-

Slackerator
Joined
Nov 10, 2005
Messages
2,718
Location
Southaven, Mississippi
I'll try to make the next one...I did have a lot of fun. The arcade is just beast...


KO- Thank you first and foremost for housing us, we appreciate it a lot man.

Milln- So..it's pronounced "mil-en" or "miln"? I'm so confused over that.... either way, it was good to see you again. Playing random arcade games with you was enjoyable as hell mannnn. We gotta beat that shootemup game next time.

Jmoan- Grab privileges have been revoked!

Cyner- It was good to have you along, your chill as hell.

Joot- Sorry I didn't play any melee with ya : ( If you come to our tri I'll get many friendlies with you! : D

T1J- I rarely play brawl I promise >_> I think that was the first time I'd played in months including brawl+. I...do like playing with Lucario though....more friendlies next time?

NES Noob- This man, is the biggest, manly, incredible person. He went the distance with Falcon.

Jack- Much <3.

Moogle- I wish we had played some meleeeeeee.

Will_- Wow. You ***** me. Hard. I may have acted kind of silly after that match (what with the silence...but that was cause of brawl >_>), but you deserve props. Grats on winning, you're truly talented.



If I forgot you I'm really sorry. I didn't meet a lot of new people at this tournament >_> I wasn't really into it.

KO if you do include melee for the next one I will be eternally grateful.
 

_Phloat_

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 1, 2006
Messages
2,953
Location
Tennessee V_V
Lol, banning the ice climbers chaingrab.

Can we ban falco's laser? I hate it, and it tacks on damage and I CANT EVEN HIT IT BACK!


Also, the ice climber's grabs are not standing. DeDeDe's smallstep chaingrab on Wario better be banned if you are actually going to ban IC's...
 

Rayku

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 21, 2004
Messages
1,832
Location
Minot, ND
can I ban Brawl and counterpick Melee? This idea was brought up to me by XIF at my first Brawl tournament.
 
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