the king of murder
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2009
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- Dragongod
- 3DS FC
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Fear my grasp of evil for I will find a weakness in your attacks to tear your pathetic attempts and your weak body apart. Seeing your blood will be the source of my smile.
This thread is about how you deal('dorf) with your opponents attacks. There are a lot of annoying attacks so you have to know how and when you react to it. We will discuss the most important moves first, though there are some discussions in the old thread already. I'll edit the OP after the discussion of the specific move.
I didn't want to bump a thread that is over a year old so I made a new one.
The link to the old thread is here:http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237328&highlight=how+you+dorf+that+move
______________________________________________________________________
Attack list
*Ike's jab
*Snake's U-tilt
*Falco's Blaster
*Mario's Cape
*Jigglypuff's B-air
*ZSS U-air
*Charizard's Rock Smash
*Shiek's F-tilt
_____________________________________________________________________
Hitbox
Pictures made by Z1gma
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Learn to DI out of the attack. This is a really important factor or you'll eat a lot of damage(more than you normally do).
Jab 1 canceled into itself is a true combo. Ganondorf is one of the easiest Character to Jab Cancel into Jab 1 because he has no attack fast enough to interrupt Jab 1 and being a big target. Even if you SDI out of it he can still chase you.
Never ever DI up. Ike can cancel his jab into an U-tilt or Bair which is deadly at high percent and will probably hit you if you are in the air. Both can be shielded and punished if you DI down.
If Ike Combat Walks you, SDI out of it immediately or else he can push you off-stage which is a really dangerous position for Ganondorf. SDI down so the Combat Walking ends because of the connection of the second jab. You shouldn't let him Combat Walk you at all though because you will eat at least 20% of damage regardless.
How you punish it?
If Ike does all three jabs in sequence, you can shield it. You can also Powerschield it and punish him though it is a lot harder to pull off.
If Ike's third jab misses, you can punish it with Gerudo or Dair if you're near enough(don't try to punish his third jab lag if you're not in his range).
If you're very close in Ike's range, DI towards him so you will get behind him, ready to punish the lag of his third jab.
Ike can jab cancel his first jab into a grab and he will likely do it if you shield his first jab which can lead into b-throw--> DA. In that case shield his first jab, spot dodge his grab than punish him with your own grab or jab.
Frame data
Jab1
Hit on: 2-3
IASA: 17
Jab2
Hit on: 3-4
IASA: 20
Jab3
Hit on: 10-14
IASA: 38
Damage
Jab 1: 4%
Jab 2: 5%
Jab 3: 7%
Important Quotes
This thread is about how you deal('dorf) with your opponents attacks. There are a lot of annoying attacks so you have to know how and when you react to it. We will discuss the most important moves first, though there are some discussions in the old thread already. I'll edit the OP after the discussion of the specific move.
I didn't want to bump a thread that is over a year old so I made a new one.
The link to the old thread is here:http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237328&highlight=how+you+dorf+that+move
______________________________________________________________________
Attack list
*Ike's jab
*Snake's U-tilt
*Falco's Blaster
*Mario's Cape
*Jigglypuff's B-air
*ZSS U-air
*Charizard's Rock Smash
*Shiek's F-tilt
_____________________________________________________________________
Ike's jabHitbox
Pictures made by Z1gma
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Learn to DI out of the attack. This is a really important factor or you'll eat a lot of damage(more than you normally do).
Jab 1 canceled into itself is a true combo. Ganondorf is one of the easiest Character to Jab Cancel into Jab 1 because he has no attack fast enough to interrupt Jab 1 and being a big target. Even if you SDI out of it he can still chase you.
Never ever DI up. Ike can cancel his jab into an U-tilt or Bair which is deadly at high percent and will probably hit you if you are in the air. Both can be shielded and punished if you DI down.
If Ike Combat Walks you, SDI out of it immediately or else he can push you off-stage which is a really dangerous position for Ganondorf. SDI down so the Combat Walking ends because of the connection of the second jab. You shouldn't let him Combat Walk you at all though because you will eat at least 20% of damage regardless.
How you punish it?
If Ike does all three jabs in sequence, you can shield it. You can also Powerschield it and punish him though it is a lot harder to pull off.
If Ike's third jab misses, you can punish it with Gerudo or Dair if you're near enough(don't try to punish his third jab lag if you're not in his range).
If you're very close in Ike's range, DI towards him so you will get behind him, ready to punish the lag of his third jab.
Ike can jab cancel his first jab into a grab and he will likely do it if you shield his first jab which can lead into b-throw--> DA. In that case shield his first jab, spot dodge his grab than punish him with your own grab or jab.
Frame data
Jab1
Hit on: 2-3
IASA: 17
Jab2
Hit on: 3-4
IASA: 20
Jab3
Hit on: 10-14
IASA: 38
Damage
Jab 1: 4%
Jab 2: 5%
Jab 3: 7%
Important Quotes
Snake's Utilt
Hitbox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpn8X9uhKIM
Skip to 1:02 to see U-tilt's hitbox.
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Snake's U-tilt has an invisible Disjointed Hitbox. Be aware of that. U-tilt has a greater vertical reach than it looks like and it kills Ganondorf at around 120%-130%(if the strong hitbox hits you).
Don't try to punish Snake if you're out of U-tilts range. Ganondorf is simply too slow for that.
How you punish it?
Basically you have to predict it to punish his U-tilt because it comes out ridiculous fast for it's immense kill-power.
Option 1: Powershield U-tilt and punish it with a quick attack like jab(if you are in range).
Option 2: You can also roll behind him if you know he is going to use U-tilt, ready to punish Snake.
Frame data
Comes out: 6-13
Hitlag: 9
Animation ends: 37
Damage
Strong hitbox 13%-14%
Weak hitbox 12%
Important Quotes
Hitbox
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hpn8X9uhKIM
Skip to 1:02 to see U-tilt's hitbox.
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Snake's U-tilt has an invisible Disjointed Hitbox. Be aware of that. U-tilt has a greater vertical reach than it looks like and it kills Ganondorf at around 120%-130%(if the strong hitbox hits you).
Don't try to punish Snake if you're out of U-tilts range. Ganondorf is simply too slow for that.
How you punish it?
Basically you have to predict it to punish his U-tilt because it comes out ridiculous fast for it's immense kill-power.
Option 1: Powershield U-tilt and punish it with a quick attack like jab(if you are in range).
Option 2: You can also roll behind him if you know he is going to use U-tilt, ready to punish Snake.
Frame data
Comes out: 6-13
Hitlag: 9
Animation ends: 37
Damage
Strong hitbox 13%-14%
Weak hitbox 12%
Important Quotes
Quoted for the lulz
Falco's Blaster
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Blaster is one of the reasons why Falco's camping game is so good. It forces you to approach Falco and at the same time Blaster shuts down your approach attempts.
Sometimes it can lead into a DACUS. Blaster's ending lag can be canceled if used during short hops.
Honestly, all you can do is Powerschield it.
How you punish it?
If the Falco player knows to use it, there is nothing you can do. How frustrating.
Frame data
Grounded:
Hits on: 12
Airbone:
Hits on: 10
Damage
1%-3%
Important Quotes
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Blaster is one of the reasons why Falco's camping game is so good. It forces you to approach Falco and at the same time Blaster shuts down your approach attempts.
Sometimes it can lead into a DACUS. Blaster's ending lag can be canceled if used during short hops.
Honestly, all you can do is Powerschield it.
How you punish it?
If the Falco player knows to use it, there is nothing you can do. How frustrating.
Frame data
Grounded:
Hits on: 12
Airbone:
Hits on: 10
Damage
1%-3%
Important Quotes
Mario's Cape
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Cape is nasty. It screws up your recovery like nothing else, so don't waste your jumps like an idiot if you're off-stage. Put yourself in a position where Mario is not able to cape you(or when caping you has little effect) and then recover. You should always recover low. If you recover high= Death by Cape.
How you punish it?
Cape comes out in frame 12 so you can react to it with your Jab that comes out in frame 8.
If he capes you while you're U-airing, Mario will still get hit by it because with U-air Ganon spins himself around covering both sides. (It can also help you with your recovery).
You can also predict it and make an attack in the opposite direction in hope that Mario will cape you and that Mario gets punished for it. You have to be very careful with that option, though.
Frame data
Hits on: 12
Ends: 35
Damage
10%
Important Quotes
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Cape is nasty. It screws up your recovery like nothing else, so don't waste your jumps like an idiot if you're off-stage. Put yourself in a position where Mario is not able to cape you(or when caping you has little effect) and then recover. You should always recover low. If you recover high= Death by Cape.
How you punish it?
Cape comes out in frame 12 so you can react to it with your Jab that comes out in frame 8.
If he capes you while you're U-airing, Mario will still get hit by it because with U-air Ganon spins himself around covering both sides. (It can also help you with your recovery).
You can also predict it and make an attack in the opposite direction in hope that Mario will cape you and that Mario gets punished for it. You have to be very careful with that option, though.
Frame data
Hits on: 12
Ends: 35
Damage
10%
Important Quotes
Jigglypuff's B-air
Hitbox
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Jiggs can SH B-air and FH Bair you. Jiggs will love to FH Bair you though, because she can follow up with another aerial attack or with her Pound(Side-b) that way. But good Jigglypuff-mains will mix it up a little(sometimes FH-Bair, sometimes SH-Bair), so they won't be too predictable with it.
Once B-air hits you, your going to take some damage. Remember, Ganondorf is one of the easiest characters to juggle so she can use the Wall of Pain on you, if you're not careful.
Sometimes, Jiggs can use her B-air to Stage Spike you but mostly it will be used to rack up damage.
How you punish it?
There are more than one way to punish her B-air but in order to do so, you have to predict which kind of B-air she will throw out.
Well spaced B-air or F-air of Ganondorf is one way to beat her B-air. I recommend using B-air because you can autocancel it unlike F-air.
After the Hitbox of Jiggly's B-air disappears(or before the Hitbox appears), you have two different options, depending if she used SH-Bair or FH-Bair.
SH-B-air: Use iDA(instant Dash attack).
FH-B-air: Use SH U-air.
Frame data
Hits on: 8-11
Lasts: 40
Lag: 15
Damage
12%
Important Quotes
Hitbox
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Jiggs can SH B-air and FH Bair you. Jiggs will love to FH Bair you though, because she can follow up with another aerial attack or with her Pound(Side-b) that way. But good Jigglypuff-mains will mix it up a little(sometimes FH-Bair, sometimes SH-Bair), so they won't be too predictable with it.
Once B-air hits you, your going to take some damage. Remember, Ganondorf is one of the easiest characters to juggle so she can use the Wall of Pain on you, if you're not careful.
Sometimes, Jiggs can use her B-air to Stage Spike you but mostly it will be used to rack up damage.
How you punish it?
There are more than one way to punish her B-air but in order to do so, you have to predict which kind of B-air she will throw out.
Well spaced B-air or F-air of Ganondorf is one way to beat her B-air. I recommend using B-air because you can autocancel it unlike F-air.
After the Hitbox of Jiggly's B-air disappears(or before the Hitbox appears), you have two different options, depending if she used SH-Bair or FH-Bair.
SH-B-air: Use iDA(instant Dash attack).
FH-B-air: Use SH U-air.
Frame data
Hits on: 8-11
Lasts: 40
Lag: 15
Damage
12%
Important Quotes
ZSS U-air
Hitbox
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
ZSS has more than one way to land an U-air on you. She can buffer a SH-U-air or a FH-U-air and hit you from behind. She can buffer a SH-Uair as an OoS option or force an airdodge on you. Once that move hits you, it can lead into combos.
ZSS will love to abuse that move on you. It has little to no ending lag, comes out incredible fast, hasincredible priority, kills incredible early if her opponent is high up there and I think I'm incredibly jealous of her U-air.
All you can do is shielding that move.
How you punish it?
There is no aerial that can beat her U-air, it has almost no lag and it comes out incredible fast. If her U-air is spaced correctly there is nothing you can do. You can hope that ZSS will mess up the spacing and than punish her with a quick attack, though don't get your hopes up too high.
Frame data
Comes out: 4
Landing lag: 9
Damage
Sweetspot: 10%
Sourspot: 7%
Important Quotes
Hitbox
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
ZSS has more than one way to land an U-air on you. She can buffer a SH-U-air or a FH-U-air and hit you from behind. She can buffer a SH-Uair as an OoS option or force an airdodge on you. Once that move hits you, it can lead into combos.
ZSS will love to abuse that move on you. It has little to no ending lag, comes out incredible fast, hasincredible priority, kills incredible early if her opponent is high up there and I think I'm incredibly jealous of her U-air.
All you can do is shielding that move.
How you punish it?
There is no aerial that can beat her U-air, it has almost no lag and it comes out incredible fast. If her U-air is spaced correctly there is nothing you can do. You can hope that ZSS will mess up the spacing and than punish her with a quick attack, though don't get your hopes up too high.
Frame data
Comes out: 4
Landing lag: 9
Damage
Sweetspot: 10%
Sourspot: 7%
Important Quotes
Charizard's Rock Smash
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Rock Smash.. I <3 that move...
This move deals a total damage of 45%, holy ****.
Never try to shield this move. Ever, ever, ever, ever. If your shield is decreased this move will still hit you. A full shield can block it though the shield push will be too strong for you to punish Charizard. So you should always let your shield recover in order to block this move.
If you Spot Dodge, RS will still hit because of the little shards that come out when Charizard headbutts the rock.
Air Dodging could work if you AD behind him. That way you can use any move that is fast enough and in range while Charizard headbutts the rock. Any other AD attempt will end up like the Spot Dodge situation.
How you punish it?
Thunderstomp or Gerudo Charizard the moment he takes out his rock.
Like previously stated you can AD behind him and punish him with moves like F-tilt or any other move in range.
Frame data
Hits on:
(1) 24-26
(2) 28-30
(3) 30-50
Lasts: 61
Damage
Headbutt: Around: 17%
Total: 45%
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
Rock Smash.. I <3 that move...
This move deals a total damage of 45%, holy ****.
Never try to shield this move. Ever, ever, ever, ever. If your shield is decreased this move will still hit you. A full shield can block it though the shield push will be too strong for you to punish Charizard. So you should always let your shield recover in order to block this move.
If you Spot Dodge, RS will still hit because of the little shards that come out when Charizard headbutts the rock.
Air Dodging could work if you AD behind him. That way you can use any move that is fast enough and in range while Charizard headbutts the rock. Any other AD attempt will end up like the Spot Dodge situation.
How you punish it?
Thunderstomp or Gerudo Charizard the moment he takes out his rock.
Like previously stated you can AD behind him and punish him with moves like F-tilt or any other move in range.
Frame data
Hits on:
(1) 24-26
(2) 28-30
(3) 30-50
Lasts: 61
Damage
Headbutt: Around: 17%
Total: 45%
Shiek's F-tilt
Hitbox
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
This move is quiet a nightmare for Ganon. Not only can it tilt-lock you but it can also lead into combos and killing moves.
Your only hope is when she makes a mistake in tilt-locking and you DI out of it right away.
Really, the best thing to do is to avoid getting hit by F-tilt in the first place. Stay out of her range and use moves like D-tilt to keep her away. If you are in range, shield this move and roll away.
How you punish it?
Due to how fast this move is she can use it multiple time at once so you will have no OoS option on her.
I can't think of any options to punish her F-tilt.
Frame data
Comes out: 4
Hits on: 5
Lag: 16
Damage
5%
Important Quotes
Hitbox
How you 'dorf it?
What you have to keep in mind
This move is quiet a nightmare for Ganon. Not only can it tilt-lock you but it can also lead into combos and killing moves.
Your only hope is when she makes a mistake in tilt-locking and you DI out of it right away.
Really, the best thing to do is to avoid getting hit by F-tilt in the first place. Stay out of her range and use moves like D-tilt to keep her away. If you are in range, shield this move and roll away.
How you punish it?
Due to how fast this move is she can use it multiple time at once so you will have no OoS option on her.
I can't think of any options to punish her F-tilt.
Frame data
Comes out: 4
Hits on: 5
Lag: 16
Damage
5%
Important Quotes
