Most tech skill?

[Veel]

...I don't follow you. Yoshi has a shield, just a really bad one.

I was making a bad joke.

 

[Smoom77]

Try learning all the timings for the ICs desyncs and say that they aren't technical. Continuing desyncs is easy, starting them is hard.

 

[Remzi]

I was making a bad joke.

I thought it was funny....

 

[AMKalmar]

Is there a character that can do all the things that Diddy can do with his bananas? More than half of the characters don't even have a decent Glide toss (in every direction).

Whether or not that is true is irrelevant, glide toss, like DACUS, is a universal AT. Dealing with bananas is nothing special either; haven't you seen single naner locks on diddy by other characters? Being good with Diddy requires the same tech skill as being good versus Diddy.

I agree with supermodelfromparis' list for the most part.

 

[Dre89]

If quick reflexes, quick fingers and timing are considered tech ckill, then Ganondorf for chain choking alone.

 

[AMKalmar]

Yeah, chain-choking requires some seriously fast reaction time for some characters. Ganon's also got super jump which requires near frame perfection; I find it much harder to do consistently than Lucas' zap jumps and bounces, and I don't use a b-stick. And there's his flip-man (ledge hop uAir/bAir) which is tricky. Wizkick cancel is easy, so meh. Salmon smash but technically that's universal. What am I forgetting?

 

[Poltergust]

I was making a bad joke.

I'll say. If you're gonna be sarcastic on the internet, then at least make it a little more obvious. X_X

 

[Dre89]

Yeah, chain-choking requires some seriously fast reaction time for some characters. Ganon's also got super jump which requires near frame perfection; I find it much harder to do consistently than Lucas' zap jumps and bounces, and I don't use a b-stick. And there's his flip-man (ledge hop uAir/bAir) which is tricky. Wizkick cancel is easy, so meh. Salmon smash but technically that's universal. What am I forgetting?

But most of those techniques aren't essential to playing Ganondorf at his theoretical top level. Whereas chain-choking would clearly be the bread and butter of his highest level of play, just that no one has really perfected it yet.

 

[Hylian]

In relation to Brawl: finger dexterity, hand-eye coordination, pretty much the ability to do what you want to make your character do. ICs don't require much techskill because their timing is not so hard to learn, and just like riding a bike, once you actually learn the timing for their cg's/infinites/desynchs, you don't forget them and only screw up when distracted. I believe that IC's trickss are easier to pull off than follow-ups for the techskill-demanding characters I listed.

Lmao.

Having a good desynching game with IC's requires more tech skill than anything in brawl except maybe their chaingrabs. Knowing a different timing for every single character isn't something you just learn and remember, it's something you have to practice constantly to stay good at.

People don't realize how hard some of their most useful desynchs are and many require a 1-4 frame window to pull off, and can be done in multiple ways. With IC's you are controlling two characters at once and giving them different inputs when desynching, I don't get how that isn't technical when it requires more finger dexterity and speed than anything else in brawl.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

I'll say. If you're gonna be sarcastic on the internet, then at least make it a little more obvious. X_X

Hate to say it Poltergust, but it WAS obvious to everyone except you.

 

[-LzR-]

I have to agree with Hylian. IC is already to hard to just control. Then go and try to win too. Oh and the most skill required in Brawl is almost impossible, I think it was called, "try to no get Nana killed"...

 

[2fast]

I'd say yoshi's at #1 for most technical. His shield is a pain to work with and his ATs arn't exactly easy to pull off and he's got a lot of them. In my time of messing with Ice Climbers I found their chain grabs easier to pull off than using yoshi's ATs effectively in a match. Though I never tried desyncing with Ice Climbers so I don't know how that is.

 

[-LzR-]

I don't see how Yoshi requires techskill. But I do see how he is hard to use.

 

[_Kain_]

I'd say IC's for the simple fact at one point I've tried to friendly or practice a bit with every character and when I tried IC's I went lol wut? and turned off the game cause I couldn't do nothing right with them

All the other character's I could do most of their stuff. Just not IC's

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Technical skill is just the ability to perform any action in the game with consistency and precision. For example, a player who can only jump would have tech-skill, just VERY low tech-skill.

Yoshi is considered to require "techskill" because almost every part of his game needs to be precise.

It really all just depends on whether you weigh technical SPEED (Melee Fox) over technical QUANTITY (Brawl Ice Climbers) when it comes to deciding who is more "technical".

 

[-LzR-]

I would say only like IC are really technical in Brawl.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

LzR, look up Draconic Reverse. And that's only the beginning, really. I think Crow said it best: Yoshi's ideal playstyle is so technical that no one even bothers with it.

 

[DeLux]

If it's any testament to how techincal the IC's are, I've spent roughly 2 hours a day for the last two weeks frame testing the mechanics of each IC throw transfer. That's a total of six different transfers (popo bthrow, fthrow, dthrow and nana bthrow, fthrow, and dthrow) for just one technique.

And you should see some of the steps it takes to do something as simple as a special frame trap.

Here's a small sample:

I regularly use a Reverse Initial Dash Shield Cancel Drop Special Reversal. There is one 10 frame window of execution to buffer an input for exactly 1 frame, followed by a 5 frame window to buffer two inputs that must be separated by no less than 2 frames. Hard? Maybe. Worth it? Yes

I agree that the tech stuff hasn't been used by top IC players to it full potential. However, that isn't to say it hasn't been discovered or isn't being discovered. It's there. It's just hard as hell to execute most of it.

 

[phi1ny3]

Precision in the way people often use it =/= tech skill, it basically means more or less the margin of error and what you've got to do to play to an almost perfect level of play.

Sheik, Marth, and Peach are pretty good examples of characters that require high amounts of "precision" in this context.

Yoshi and ICs are easily some of the most technical, both have technical barriers that prevent you usually from playing the characters immediately at a high level of play unless you learn them first. Tell me that you can place top 5-7 in a decent tourney setting with said characters without learning any timings or muscle memory with those characters. I'm going to say that for ICs that if you don't know how to desynch or learn at least a couple of CG timing variants, you won't be going anywhere with this character lol.

Falco BDACUS stuff is overrated, it's very tough admittedly but that's one technical barrier for an otherwise fairly linear and basic character, plus it fills a nice but not totally necessary niche (at least for now). We've seen Falco still perform very well w/o it, although this could easily change from people getting better at avoiding falco's traditional kill setups and killing strats.

Diddy's somewhat tricky to decide imo, you've got sideB options/cancels which while gimmicky speed up diddy's mobility greatly, and his game in general introduces a more technical aspect to the game whether one is playing as or against Diddy. This requires the Diddy to have a higher capacity for knowing how to perform and utilize those abilities past the opponent most often. There's also stuff like DA followups, camp patterns, etc. I say he's pretty technical in these areas, but other people would disagree as to whether that determines his "tech skill" demand.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Judging off of your post Phiny, Diddy is not a technical character. Many of his trickies are fairly simple to perform. The difficulty with diddy is not tech skill it is more a matter of understanding how the heck one plays as diddy. Very much like snake. They have tools to work with that one has to master being the judge of how to use them. This does not require technical skill, it requires a proficent mind at making decisions during the match.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Judging off of your post Phiny, Diddy is not a technical character. Many of his trickies are fairly simple to perform. The difficulty with diddy is not tech skill it is more a matter of understanding how the heck one plays as diddy. Very much like snake. They have tools to work with that one has to master being the judge of how to use them. This does not require technical skill, it requires a proficent mind at making decisions during the match.

Exactly, technical skill has nothing to do with decision making, I mentioned this in a post above.

 

[bigman40]

Yoshi, in fact, does not. This is a common misconception from the early days of Brawl before we had proper frame data; I think Bigman released a video disproving this a couple months ago.

I have been summoned...

...I don't follow you. Yoshi has a shield, just a really bad one.

Derp.

I'd say yoshi's at #1 for most technical. His shield is a pain to work with and his ATs arn't exactly easy to pull off and he's got a lot of them. In my time of messing with Ice Climbers I found their chain grabs easier to pull off than using yoshi's ATs effectively in a match. Though I never tried desyncing with Ice Climbers so I don't know how that is.

Yoshi isn't #1 really. I'd say he's #2 easily though. Most of his techs are actually fairly easy (highest amount of difficulty it reaches is about mild), provided you use the games options to it's strengths; However, leaving your controller at default turns DR into an immensely hard technique due to the fact that it takes up a lot more energy than necessary to use it (plus, there's nearly no way you can use DR as fast as my method doing default). All of Yoshi's At's can actually be learned fairly quick, but the main adaptation players will have it not using his shield.

I don't see how Yoshi requires techskill. But I do see how he is hard to use.

Hard to use, yes. Requires techskill? Not really since the basic playstyle is working on players to this day (there has been very little variation since 08). His actual hard technique that have recently came around have been Wavelanding on static platforms. Other than that, Dragonic Reverse (DR), Ledge DR, Super jump, CGs, etc are about moderate in skill necessity.

LzR, look up Draconic Reverse. And that's only the beginning, really. I think Crow said it best: Yoshi's ideal playstyle is so technical that no one even bothers with it.

Hi. I currently use most of Yoshi's techs in my matches save for Wavelanding on static platforms. =D

Yoshi and ICs are easily some of the most technical, both have technical barriers that prevent you usually from playing the characters immediately at a high level of play unless you learn them first. Tell me that you can place top 5-7 in a decent tourney setting with said characters without learning any timings or muscle memory with those characters.

Yoshi shouldn't really be placing top 5-7 unless there's a surplus amount of technical skill mixed in with smarts to actually get somewhere. As it stands now though, Yoshi's "techskill" is learning how to not shield and learning how to master his momentum that gives him the weaker ability to weave in and out like Wario and Jiggs do. Lastly, they would need to understand CGs as that gives us stage control and options to kill certain characters out of release.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Learning how to over-come his shield, master his momentum and learn chain-grabs are not tech skill.

 

[bigman40]

Oops, my bad. Got carried away lol. Either way, it further proves my point that his techs aren't hard (save for 2 that I know) and that he should not be #1.

 

[LookingforAlaska]

After playing Brawl for about a week, I have formulated my own opinion.

1. Ice Climbers. (I can't do crap with that character, lol.)
2. Peach.
3. Yoshi.
4. Sonic.
5. Link.

 

[EpixAura]

In no particular order:
Yoshi
Falco
Diddy
ICs
ZSS

I leave out MK because:
1: No one wants another MK main.
2: The question was which characters required the most tech skill to play EFFECTIVELY. MK has a lot of potential for advance techs, but most of them are borderline useless, at least compared to his basic stuff.

 

[Meru.]

IC's
Peach
Sheik
Yoshi
Ehh... Pikachu?

imo

 

[-Cross-]

Oops, my bad. Got carried away lol. Either way, it further proves my point that his techs aren't hard (save for 2 that I know) and that he should not be #1.

Just wondering, but what is your controller setup for Yoshi?

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Just wondering, but what is your controller setup for Yoshi?

I'm also wondering this, with the default set-up I can only DR in 1/4 speed xD

 

[tarextherex]

I'm also wondering this, with the default set-up I can only DR in 1/4 speed xD

It's not reccomended to dr by pressing twice the same button, lol. With default controls though, dring with tap jump is pretty easy when you get the timing. Some people do it with L/R as jump, but most popular setting is Y-B-C stick.

 

[bigman40]

Just wondering, but what is your controller setup for Yoshi?

I'm also wondering this, with the default set-up I can only DR in 1/4 speed xD

Some people do it with L/R as jump, but most popular setting is Y-B-C stick.

YBC is the method I came up with and recommended to use DR. It makes it very easy to use and the switch isn't bad in the least. As a matter of fact, nearly every yoshi that can DR agrees that my method is the easiest by far (even easier than tap jump).

 

[Spambot]

Why does Sheik pop up so frequently on these lists? Because of DACUS timing and ftilt staling? If theres something i'm not aware of, please clarify.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

She has quite a few ATs, just look at her guide in the Character section.

Mostly stuff with vanish and needles iirc.

 

[Tesh]

Chain jacket? *shrug*

Why is Sonic popping up on any lists. All of his ATs are easy or universal.

 

[Spambot]

She has quite a few ATs, just look at her guide in the Character section.

Mostly stuff with vanish and needles iirc.

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Hive]

i still consider icgs in terms of total tech skill, they are hard to initiate but way easier than actually playing out the entire stock imo.